Dean Lucas' little review of the Leogang race. Some pretty insightful comments in there on how and why courses are getting faster, straighter and more bikepark-y.
Going by that (and also what Laurie Greenland had to say), I think it's really sad to see the organizers catering so much to the broadcasters and basically putting the riders' interests last behind pretty much everyone else.
After watching Crankworx Innsbruck coverage, I do have to say that I’m missing Warner and Jackson in the commentary booth.
GCN/Discovery is starting to have better coverage of the tracks, but between the announcers and the (imo, and Dean’s)) negative track changes I think I enjoyed today’s race more than the last 2 WCs.
After watching Crankworx Innsbruck coverage, I do have to say that I’m missing Warner and Jackson in the commentary booth.
GCN/Discovery is starting to have better...
After watching Crankworx Innsbruck coverage, I do have to say that I’m missing Warner and Jackson in the commentary booth.
GCN/Discovery is starting to have better coverage of the tracks, but between the announcers and the (imo, and Dean’s)) negative track changes I think I enjoyed today’s race more than the last 2 WCs.
After watching Crankworx Innsbruck coverage, I do have to say that I’m missing Warner and Jackson in the commentary booth.
GCN/Discovery is starting to have better...
After watching Crankworx Innsbruck coverage, I do have to say that I’m missing Warner and Jackson in the commentary booth.
GCN/Discovery is starting to have better coverage of the tracks, but between the announcers and the (imo, and Dean’s)) negative track changes I think I enjoyed today’s race more than the last 2 WCs.
The "negative" track comments are a little odd. Seen as it looked to me as if Lenzerheide was almost identical to 2022 version? And Leogang was dry in the woods for the first time ever, so if it had of been dry in previous years it may have looked similar? We are only two races in, I'd let ESO tape a few more tracks before coming to a conclusion?
Agreed about the commentary. Gracia needs to study up or get the boot. Ric needs to speak more and shout less
Man where is the EDR coverage? Looking at the results sheet I can barely put a face to a name for half of the top 20. The vital raw was rad (Jesse’s gap was SICK) and all the riders are looking fast - I just don’t know who most of them are 🤷🏼♂️
I’m equally a bit shocked at how many big names are racing the E-EDR.
After watching Crankworx Innsbruck coverage, I do have to say that I’m missing Warner and Jackson in the commentary booth.
GCN/Discovery is starting to have better...
After watching Crankworx Innsbruck coverage, I do have to say that I’m missing Warner and Jackson in the commentary booth.
GCN/Discovery is starting to have better coverage of the tracks, but between the announcers and the (imo, and Dean’s)) negative track changes I think I enjoyed today’s race more than the last 2 WCs.
The "negative" track comments are a little odd. Seen as it looked to me as if Lenzerheide was almost identical to 2022 version? And Leogang was...
The "negative" track comments are a little odd. Seen as it looked to me as if Lenzerheide was almost identical to 2022 version? And Leogang was dry in the woods for the first time ever, so if it had of been dry in previous years it may have looked similar? We are only two races in, I'd let ESO tape a few more tracks before coming to a conclusion?
Agreed about the commentary. Gracia needs to study up or get the boot. Ric needs to speak more and shout less
I’ve even hearing riders talking about tracks getting straightened out, speeds increasing, and I’ve felt like there was some subtext regarding safety. Dean Lucas is the first rider I’ve heard make this point explicitly regarding the way tracks are laid out.
Like you said, I don’t see the big differences, but the riders (and clock!) seem to really notice. I hope that it’s not going to increase serious injuries.
I’ve even hearing riders talking about tracks getting straightened out, speeds increasing, and I’ve felt like there was some subtext regarding safety. Dean Lucas is the...
I’ve even hearing riders talking about tracks getting straightened out, speeds increasing, and I’ve felt like there was some subtext regarding safety. Dean Lucas is the first rider I’ve heard make this point explicitly regarding the way tracks are laid out.
Like you said, I don’t see the big differences, but the riders (and clock!) seem to really notice. I hope that it’s not going to increase serious injuries.
Kolb has been pretty vocal and explicit about it in a couple of clips I've seen too...
Man where is the EDR coverage? Looking at the results sheet I can barely put a face to a name for half of the top 20...
Man where is the EDR coverage? Looking at the results sheet I can barely put a face to a name for half of the top 20. The vital raw was rad (Jesse’s gap was SICK) and all the riders are looking fast - I just don’t know who most of them are 🤷🏼♂️
I’m equally a bit shocked at how many big names are racing the E-EDR.
It's pretty abysmal for for sure
Semi-related; is the next round really over 9 weeks out? I somehow missed that when the schedule was announced...
The "negative" track comments are a little odd. Seen as it looked to me as if Lenzerheide was almost identical to 2022 version? And Leogang was...
The "negative" track comments are a little odd. Seen as it looked to me as if Lenzerheide was almost identical to 2022 version? And Leogang was dry in the woods for the first time ever, so if it had of been dry in previous years it may have looked similar? We are only two races in, I'd let ESO tape a few more tracks before coming to a conclusion?
Agreed about the commentary. Gracia needs to study up or get the boot. Ric needs to speak more and shout less
i thought the same. aside from the top 10 seconds of lenzerheide, it was the same as last year and leogang was the same too, right? i haven't watched dean vid yet, but the low-slung, non-breakable tape seems to be a significant problem, taking out a few riders as they snagged it and went OTB after blowing off course.
@dolface - yep, EDR is off until september 1 and after VDS this weekend, the next race DH isn't until august 23 - world champs are in the middle of all that, however.
re: rob and eliot in the cwx dh booth - that was such a pleasant race commentary!
Not sure if track straightening is entirely for tv or representative of trends in trail design. Awkward corners aren’t exactly a favorite for a lot of riders. Big changes in speed aren’t exactly the safest for bike parks. Usually your are going to have one track be slow and one track be fast not one with a bunch of pace changes. I also think a big reason things are so one lined is with 29 wheels and a good strength training program these guys can just eat bumps and holes that would’ve been faster/more consistent to go around in 2015.
now I do agree they can use taping to slow down the course and I think eso has mostly taped trying to shorten the track which has had the opposite effect. I don’t think they are purposely looking at sections to make them faster but if you cut distance or corners it will happen naturally. I also think the shorter the track the more riders know they need to push in every section. Where as on longer tracks a rider can choose where to push and still be competitive.
i think one really good point Dean brings up is faster is not intrinsically better footage. He mentioned specifically the entrance to the woods where this year every single rider gapped into it with very little discernible difference. A couple jumped to slightly different spots and there were two main landing spots but man was it hard to tell if anybody’s line choice made a difference. In years past when that corner was a mud fest it was blatantly clear who was going fast and who wasn’t. Perhaps if they chicane that corner or put a fresh section between the wall ride and the entrance they can improve rider safety and the visual show for the fans.
Shortening courses (less time) doesn't make any difference for the broadcast. They're not showing full runs (at least at the first 2 rounds) so it doesn't change the broadcast duration. Unless they're changing intervals based on typical course time.
Based on Elliot's job in the booth for the Crankworx DH, I think Ric + Elliot would be better than Rob + Gracia. I really like Gracia, but he is just not a thinker/analyzer like Fabien Barrel, Elliot, etc.
-Insane DH world cup layoff for 7 weeks in the middle of the summer -- I know worlds is in there, but still, terrible or the sport.
-Two more rounds for the EDR?! What a let down/terrible season. Coverage has been so poor this year that it feels like their season just started. And there are two more rounds to go. Crazy how much hype and build up their was all off season from their riders and sponsors for the season ahead. Here were are 2/3rds of the way through June, there's a massive layoff until September then two more races and it's over. Sad.
Oh and regarding course length/speeds... if you listened to the long form interview with Chris Ball about the future plans of ESO there were some obvious take-aways:
-They're not going to cover full runs in 2023, but that's the goal in the future
-That goal will be achieved with more cameras, but more importantly cutting the length of the courses down
-The courses were not going to be cut/cut much in 2023
-They want to get the finals riders down to allow for more time to show full runs
Extrapolating all that, it's clear:
-They want to get race times down so that they can have a better TV for package, showing all of the runs, keep casual viewer's interest (Eurosport, etc.) and focus on always seeing the top ~20-ish names in the results to build familiarity with the riders from the casual fans (Eurosport, etc.) This is not ideal for riders outside the top 20-30 nor the hardcore fan that wants to see 60 riders in finals, etc. But this is how they're planning to grow the sport (eyeballs, money, professionalism)--outside of the hardcore fan.
In 2024, I'd expect to see courses cut down/different venues and more cameras. I wouldn't be surprised if a venue like MSA or Fort Bill (if they're on the 2024 schedule) will have courses that are a minute shorter.
So eso wants to make some pretty major changes to the sport so it'll more appealing to casual viewers, growing sport, more eyeballs watching.... I don't think many casual viewers end up behind a paywall. I'm not calling bs on you Mike, (I know ball has said those things), I'm calling bs on eso/ball.
So eso wants to make some pretty major changes to the sport so it'll more appealing to casual viewers, growing sport, more eyeballs watching.... I don't...
So eso wants to make some pretty major changes to the sport so it'll more appealing to casual viewers, growing sport, more eyeballs watching.... I don't think many casual viewers end up behind a paywall. I'm not calling bs on you Mike, (I know ball has said those things), I'm calling bs on eso/ball.
Agreed, the paywall part it tricky... but that's the thing with Eurosport... If I'm not mistaken, that is 'normal' TV in Europe, like ESPN here and they have multiple stations. If they can get the broadcasts into good time slots (TV ad dollars) the huge money payoff there alone might be what they're looking for.
In terms of the US and other areas, that complicated for sure as casual viewers won't go through the effort for $50/yr and GCN+. that said, maybe their goal is to create something they can sell to a bigger player like NBC/Peacock in the US.
Also, when I say casual fans that could extend to people who are into DH but not die-hards all the way down to the guy flipping channels on the weekends and gets stuck in to a DH race that looks cool. Both of those casual fans will go to much different lengths to watch world cup DH haha.
One other note about paywalls.... In the US, Supercross is behind a Peacock (NBC) paywall that presumably 75,000+ people are paying $6 month to watch. IF ESO is able to make a much more compelling broadcast and bring more people into the sport, maybe they can get someone like Peacock in the US to pay for broadcast rights and get it in front of more eyeballs ($$, growth)? Who knows, just speculation.
funspeculation - elite men's semi finals #'s only (b/c i'm too lazy to add juniors and elite women's)
live semi final youtube views as of june 26
lenzerheide, 134k (world series channel), 65k (gmbn racing channel) - 199k
leogang, 91k (world series channel), 63k (gmbn racing channel) - 128k
IMO, these numbers aren't bad and i'd hope they grow. i don't know what expectations are from uci, eso, teams, sponsors etc, but considering all that is brand new (the new channels, the tech glitches, the commentary drama etc, the middle-of-the-night-for-USA live time slot), those view counts seem respectable. would 10% of youtube viewers from these stats be paying for gcn+/discovery etc? seems doubtful. i'd be surprised if 5% did.
red bull bike has nearly 2m subs to its youtube channel. crankworx rotorua DH has 301k views, cairns has 174k, innsbruck has 100k from yesterday, hardline has almost 1m from 9 months ago. rampage has 1.5m views, the spanish-speaking (i think) broadcast of the Medellin urban DH has 2.4m views, district ride has 1.4m views.
all that to say, i think current world cup isn't too far off the pace considering it's summer now (less interneting, more riding) and the channel sizes of world series and gbmn racing. we never knew what red bull live races pulled in b/c they never gave those stats up, so maybe these youtube stats are paltry compared?
maybe eso would just give it back to red bull if the #s aren't good enough? would red bull even want it?
The commentary and some of the production values was better for Crankworx but i didn't think the camera work/coverage was any better. Got just over 50% of the runs and we missed Jakob Jewett's bronze medal run since started early due to a crash in seeding - which I thought was one of the justification for WC's adding a semi.
overall i wasn't engaged in the crankworx race as much as to me the announcing etc just adds to the ambience of the race and doesn't create a good race, the race itself does that. The Innsbruck course looked tamer for lack of a better race and absolutely no slight to the racers but it wasn't exactly a battle of the world's best.
Now keep in mind that Crankworx has added $10k to whoever scores 1199 points in the dh series and if nobody (which isn't going to happen this year) then it carries over to next year and the next until someone does. couple that with around $5k for winning each race and more exposure for their sponsors through RedBull TV then you could see riders focusing more on including if not prioritizing Crankworx into their schedule in the coming years.
“I'd expect to see courses cut down/different venues and more cameras. I wouldn't be surprised if a venue like MSA or Fort Bill (if they're on the 2024 schedule) will have courses that are a minute shorter”
The commentary and some of the production values was better for Crankworx but i didn't think the camera work/coverage was any better. Got just over 50%...
The commentary and some of the production values was better for Crankworx but i didn't think the camera work/coverage was any better. Got just over 50% of the runs and we missed Jakob Jewett's bronze medal run since started early due to a crash in seeding - which I thought was one of the justification for WC's adding a semi.
overall i wasn't engaged in the crankworx race as much as to me the announcing etc just adds to the ambience of the race and doesn't create a good race, the race itself does that. The Innsbruck course looked tamer for lack of a better race and absolutely no slight to the racers but it wasn't exactly a battle of the world's best.
Now keep in mind that Crankworx has added $10k to whoever scores 1199 points in the dh series and if nobody (which isn't going to happen this year) then it carries over to next year and the next until someone does. couple that with around $5k for winning each race and more exposure for their sponsors through RedBull TV then you could see riders focusing more on including if not prioritizing Crankworx into their schedule in the coming years.
Whilst it's cool that Crankworx goes to some different places, I think they need to find some new venues with better tracks for DH. Innsbruck, Cairns and Rotorua DH tracks are all a bit meh IMO. I'm hoping the new track for Whistler will be a bit more interesting. It's a shame it's so close to the Worlds, I can't find a start list as yet, but I think it may have drawn more big names if it was earlier in July.
After watching Crankworx Innsbruck coverage, I do have to say that I’m missing Warner and Jackson in the commentary booth.
GCN/Discovery is starting to have better...
After watching Crankworx Innsbruck coverage, I do have to say that I’m missing Warner and Jackson in the commentary booth.
GCN/Discovery is starting to have better coverage of the tracks, but between the announcers and the (imo, and Dean’s)) negative track changes I think I enjoyed today’s race more than the last 2 WCs.
The "negative" track comments are a little odd. Seen as it looked to me as if Lenzerheide was almost identical to 2022 version? And Leogang was...
The "negative" track comments are a little odd. Seen as it looked to me as if Lenzerheide was almost identical to 2022 version? And Leogang was dry in the woods for the first time ever, so if it had of been dry in previous years it may have looked similar? We are only two races in, I'd let ESO tape a few more tracks before coming to a conclusion?
Agreed about the commentary. Gracia needs to study up or get the boot. Ric needs to speak more and shout less
I’ve even hearing riders talking about tracks getting straightened out, speeds increasing, and I’ve felt like there was some subtext regarding safety. Dean Lucas is the...
I’ve even hearing riders talking about tracks getting straightened out, speeds increasing, and I’ve felt like there was some subtext regarding safety. Dean Lucas is the first rider I’ve heard make this point explicitly regarding the way tracks are laid out.
Like you said, I don’t see the big differences, but the riders (and clock!) seem to really notice. I hope that it’s not going to increase serious injuries.
It's not even really just about safety. Laurie Greenland also mentioned how he dislikes that the tracks get faster and straighter because it creates this situation where there's really only one line on track you can ride and everyone's times get bunched togehter at the top. As a result it almost seems random who takes the win in the end because riders aren't separated by technical riding prowess so much as just by who randomly manages to hit the one line the best. Others have mentioned it too. Andi Kolb said something similar to this too when he was on the PB podcast and I remember Gwin in one of his videos also mentioning how he dislikes courses getting straighter and faster.
Man where is the EDR coverage? Looking at the results sheet I can barely put a face to a name for half of the top 20...
Man where is the EDR coverage? Looking at the results sheet I can barely put a face to a name for half of the top 20. The vital raw was rad (Jesse’s gap was SICK) and all the riders are looking fast - I just don’t know who most of them are 🤷🏼♂️
I’m equally a bit shocked at how many big names are racing the E-EDR.
Yeah, as a former "pro" XC racer (- had a team and sponsorship contracts but wasn't ever fast or got noteworthy results) I think the whole EDR-E thing is pretty disgusting. It is a competition ( - I'm hesitant to even call it a sport) where the deciding factor is not your skill, power or endurance, but mainly who has the best equipment.
Claiming that mountainbiking and e-biking are the same thing is literally like saying that it's the same wheter you hike up a mountain or take the gondola to the top.
The whole e-bike "racing" thing is basically just an industry ploy to generate fake hype and normalize e-bikes - because those make the industry more money than mountainbikes. It speaks volumes about the UCI and the ESO that they wouldn't stand up to protect mountainbiking as a sports competition from this nonsense and rather just play along.
The commentary and some of the production values was better for Crankworx but i didn't think the camera work/coverage was any better. Got just over 50%...
The commentary and some of the production values was better for Crankworx but i didn't think the camera work/coverage was any better. Got just over 50% of the runs and we missed Jakob Jewett's bronze medal run since started early due to a crash in seeding - which I thought was one of the justification for WC's adding a semi.
overall i wasn't engaged in the crankworx race as much as to me the announcing etc just adds to the ambience of the race and doesn't create a good race, the race itself does that. The Innsbruck course looked tamer for lack of a better race and absolutely no slight to the racers but it wasn't exactly a battle of the world's best.
Now keep in mind that Crankworx has added $10k to whoever scores 1199 points in the dh series and if nobody (which isn't going to happen this year) then it carries over to next year and the next until someone does. couple that with around $5k for winning each race and more exposure for their sponsors through RedBull TV then you could see riders focusing more on including if not prioritizing Crankworx into their schedule in the coming years.
Whilst it's cool that Crankworx goes to some different places, I think they need to find some new venues with better tracks for DH. Innsbruck, Cairns...
Whilst it's cool that Crankworx goes to some different places, I think they need to find some new venues with better tracks for DH. Innsbruck, Cairns and Rotorua DH tracks are all a bit meh IMO. I'm hoping the new track for Whistler will be a bit more interesting. It's a shame it's so close to the Worlds, I can't find a start list as yet, but I think it may have drawn more big names if it was earlier in July.
Staying in August might have been better if they wanted to attract more riders. There is a few national championships plus Hardline in July that will keep some riders busy. Innsbruck was on the way to Val di sole so teams/riders could easily make the stop. Whistler would be a big distribution with travel and time zone changes ahead of world champs. I think you’ll see most of the Canadian riders on the start list but few international riders.
Yeah, as a former "pro" XC racer (- had a team and sponsorship contracts but wasn't ever fast or got noteworthy results) I think the whole...
Yeah, as a former "pro" XC racer (- had a team and sponsorship contracts but wasn't ever fast or got noteworthy results) I think the whole EDR-E thing is pretty disgusting. It is a competition ( - I'm hesitant to even call it a sport) where the deciding factor is not your skill, power or endurance, but mainly who has the best equipment.
Claiming that mountainbiking and e-biking are the same thing is literally like saying that it's the same wheter you hike up a mountain or take the gondola to the top.
The whole e-bike "racing" thing is basically just an industry ploy to generate fake hype and normalize e-bikes - because those make the industry more money than mountainbikes. It speaks volumes about the UCI and the ESO that they wouldn't stand up to protect mountainbiking as a sports competition from this nonsense and rather just play along.
How do you feel about motocross?
no fitness involved there… just who has the fastest motorcycle 😂
Our rider Tristan Lemire had a bad crash in practice that caused him to fall just to the side of the track. He came to a stop on the tree pictured here. He was very lucky to have only broken a metacarpal and will be back in Andorra.
He very easily could have been impaled by the branches on these logs. He fell directly onto this pile of shrapnel. This is literally 5' off the side of the steepest part of the track inside the B zone. It's insane that this area is not cleared before racers take their first practice runs. Over the weekend I heard constant chatter about how there was debris on the side of the track all the way down.
I'm glad to see that Amaury is speaking up, they are very valid concerns.
I was surprised how much heavier the Nukeproof Megas were compared to the Giga. My 38lb coil sprung 161 doesn't seem all that heavy any more...
I feel good about a 35 lb Medium Spire with inserts and a one up tool now.
Dean Lucas' little review of the Leogang race. Some pretty insightful comments in there on how and why courses are getting faster, straighter and more bikepark-y.
Going by that (and also what Laurie Greenland had to say), I think it's really sad to see the organizers catering so much to the broadcasters and basically putting the riders' interests last behind pretty much everyone else.
After watching Crankworx Innsbruck coverage, I do have to say that I’m missing Warner and Jackson in the commentary booth.
GCN/Discovery is starting to have better coverage of the tracks, but between the announcers and the (imo, and Dean’s)) negative track changes I think I enjoyed today’s race more than the last 2 WCs.
Not quite racing but big props to Emil setting slope style records in jeans.
Hope the folks at ESO are taking notes.
The "negative" track comments are a little odd. Seen as it looked to me as if Lenzerheide was almost identical to 2022 version? And Leogang was dry in the woods for the first time ever, so if it had of been dry in previous years it may have looked similar? We are only two races in, I'd let ESO tape a few more tracks before coming to a conclusion?
Agreed about the commentary. Gracia needs to study up or get the boot. Ric needs to speak more and shout less
Man where is the EDR coverage? Looking at the results sheet I can barely put a face to a name for half of the top 20. The vital raw was rad (Jesse’s gap was SICK) and all the riders are looking fast - I just don’t know who most of them are 🤷🏼♂️
I’m equally a bit shocked at how many big names are racing the E-EDR.
I’ve even hearing riders talking about tracks getting straightened out, speeds increasing, and I’ve felt like there was some subtext regarding safety. Dean Lucas is the first rider I’ve heard make this point explicitly regarding the way tracks are laid out.
Like you said, I don’t see the big differences, but the riders (and clock!) seem to really notice. I hope that it’s not going to increase serious injuries.
Kolb has been pretty vocal and explicit about it in a couple of clips I've seen too...
It's pretty abysmal for for sure
Semi-related; is the next round really over 9 weeks out? I somehow missed that when the schedule was announced...
i thought the same. aside from the top 10 seconds of lenzerheide, it was the same as last year and leogang was the same too, right? i haven't watched dean vid yet, but the low-slung, non-breakable tape seems to be a significant problem, taking out a few riders as they snagged it and went OTB after blowing off course.
@dolface - yep, EDR is off until september 1 and after VDS this weekend, the next race DH isn't until august 23 - world champs are in the middle of all that, however.
re: rob and eliot in the cwx dh booth - that was such a pleasant race commentary!
Not sure if track straightening is entirely for tv or representative of trends in trail design. Awkward corners aren’t exactly a favorite for a lot of riders. Big changes in speed aren’t exactly the safest for bike parks. Usually your are going to have one track be slow and one track be fast not one with a bunch of pace changes. I also think a big reason things are so one lined is with 29 wheels and a good strength training program these guys can just eat bumps and holes that would’ve been faster/more consistent to go around in 2015.
now I do agree they can use taping to slow down the course and I think eso has mostly taped trying to shorten the track which has had the opposite effect. I don’t think they are purposely looking at sections to make them faster but if you cut distance or corners it will happen naturally. I also think the shorter the track the more riders know they need to push in every section. Where as on longer tracks a rider can choose where to push and still be competitive.
i think one really good point Dean brings up is faster is not intrinsically better footage. He mentioned specifically the entrance to the woods where this year every single rider gapped into it with very little discernible difference. A couple jumped to slightly different spots and there were two main landing spots but man was it hard to tell if anybody’s line choice made a difference. In years past when that corner was a mud fest it was blatantly clear who was going fast and who wasn’t. Perhaps if they chicane that corner or put a fresh section between the wall ride and the entrance they can improve rider safety and the visual show for the fans.
Shortening courses (less time) doesn't make any difference for the broadcast. They're not showing full runs (at least at the first 2 rounds) so it doesn't change the broadcast duration. Unless they're changing intervals based on typical course time.
Based on Elliot's job in the booth for the Crankworx DH, I think Ric + Elliot would be better than Rob + Gracia. I really like Gracia, but he is just not a thinker/analyzer like Fabien Barrel, Elliot, etc.
-Insane DH world cup layoff for 7 weeks in the middle of the summer -- I know worlds is in there, but still, terrible or the sport.
-Two more rounds for the EDR?! What a let down/terrible season. Coverage has been so poor this year that it feels like their season just started. And there are two more rounds to go. Crazy how much hype and build up their was all off season from their riders and sponsors for the season ahead. Here were are 2/3rds of the way through June, there's a massive layoff until September then two more races and it's over. Sad.
Oh and regarding course length/speeds... if you listened to the long form interview with Chris Ball about the future plans of ESO there were some obvious take-aways:
-They're not going to cover full runs in 2023, but that's the goal in the future
-That goal will be achieved with more cameras, but more importantly cutting the length of the courses down
-The courses were not going to be cut/cut much in 2023
-They want to get the finals riders down to allow for more time to show full runs
Extrapolating all that, it's clear:
-They want to get race times down so that they can have a better TV for package, showing all of the runs, keep casual viewer's interest (Eurosport, etc.) and focus on always seeing the top ~20-ish names in the results to build familiarity with the riders from the casual fans (Eurosport, etc.) This is not ideal for riders outside the top 20-30 nor the hardcore fan that wants to see 60 riders in finals, etc. But this is how they're planning to grow the sport (eyeballs, money, professionalism)--outside of the hardcore fan.
In 2024, I'd expect to see courses cut down/different venues and more cameras. I wouldn't be surprised if a venue like MSA or Fort Bill (if they're on the 2024 schedule) will have courses that are a minute shorter.
So eso wants to make some pretty major changes to the sport so it'll more appealing to casual viewers, growing sport, more eyeballs watching.... I don't think many casual viewers end up behind a paywall. I'm not calling bs on you Mike, (I know ball has said those things), I'm calling bs on eso/ball.
Agreed, the paywall part it tricky... but that's the thing with Eurosport... If I'm not mistaken, that is 'normal' TV in Europe, like ESPN here and they have multiple stations. If they can get the broadcasts into good time slots (TV ad dollars) the huge money payoff there alone might be what they're looking for.
In terms of the US and other areas, that complicated for sure as casual viewers won't go through the effort for $50/yr and GCN+. that said, maybe their goal is to create something they can sell to a bigger player like NBC/Peacock in the US.
Also, when I say casual fans that could extend to people who are into DH but not die-hards all the way down to the guy flipping channels on the weekends and gets stuck in to a DH race that looks cool. Both of those casual fans will go to much different lengths to watch world cup DH haha.
One other note about paywalls.... In the US, Supercross is behind a Peacock (NBC) paywall that presumably 75,000+ people are paying $6 month to watch. IF ESO is able to make a much more compelling broadcast and bring more people into the sport, maybe they can get someone like Peacock in the US to pay for broadcast rights and get it in front of more eyeballs ($$, growth)? Who knows, just speculation.
funspeculation - elite men's semi finals #'s only (b/c i'm too lazy to add juniors and elite women's)
live semi final youtube views as of june 26
lenzerheide, 134k (world series channel), 65k (gmbn racing channel) - 199k
leogang, 91k (world series channel), 63k (gmbn racing channel) - 128k
IMO, these numbers aren't bad and i'd hope they grow. i don't know what expectations are from uci, eso, teams, sponsors etc, but considering all that is brand new (the new channels, the tech glitches, the commentary drama etc, the middle-of-the-night-for-USA live time slot), those view counts seem respectable. would 10% of youtube viewers from these stats be paying for gcn+/discovery etc? seems doubtful. i'd be surprised if 5% did.
red bull bike has nearly 2m subs to its youtube channel. crankworx rotorua DH has 301k views, cairns has 174k, innsbruck has 100k from yesterday, hardline has almost 1m from 9 months ago. rampage has 1.5m views, the spanish-speaking (i think) broadcast of the Medellin urban DH has 2.4m views, district ride has 1.4m views.
all that to say, i think current world cup isn't too far off the pace considering it's summer now (less interneting, more riding) and the channel sizes of world series and gbmn racing. we never knew what red bull live races pulled in b/c they never gave those stats up, so maybe these youtube stats are paltry compared?
maybe eso would just give it back to red bull if the #s aren't good enough? would red bull even want it?
The commentary and some of the production values was better for Crankworx but i didn't think the camera work/coverage was any better. Got just over 50% of the runs and we missed Jakob Jewett's bronze medal run since started early due to a crash in seeding - which I thought was one of the justification for WC's adding a semi.
overall i wasn't engaged in the crankworx race as much as to me the announcing etc just adds to the ambience of the race and doesn't create a good race, the race itself does that. The Innsbruck course looked tamer for lack of a better race and absolutely no slight to the racers but it wasn't exactly a battle of the world's best.
Now keep in mind that Crankworx has added $10k to whoever scores 1199 points in the dh series and if nobody (which isn't going to happen this year) then it carries over to next year and the next until someone does. couple that with around $5k for winning each race and more exposure for their sponsors through RedBull TV then you could see riders focusing more on including if not prioritizing Crankworx into their schedule in the coming years.
“I'd expect to see courses cut down/different venues and more cameras. I wouldn't be surprised if a venue like MSA or Fort Bill (if they're on the 2024 schedule) will have courses that are a minute shorter”
no more fort William after worlds this year.
Whilst it's cool that Crankworx goes to some different places, I think they need to find some new venues with better tracks for DH. Innsbruck, Cairns and Rotorua DH tracks are all a bit meh IMO. I'm hoping the new track for Whistler will be a bit more interesting. It's a shame it's so close to the Worlds, I can't find a start list as yet, but I think it may have drawn more big names if it was earlier in July.
It's not even really just about safety. Laurie Greenland also mentioned how he dislikes that the tracks get faster and straighter because it creates this situation where there's really only one line on track you can ride and everyone's times get bunched togehter at the top. As a result it almost seems random who takes the win in the end because riders aren't separated by technical riding prowess so much as just by who randomly manages to hit the one line the best. Others have mentioned it too. Andi Kolb said something similar to this too when he was on the PB podcast and I remember Gwin in one of his videos also mentioning how he dislikes courses getting straighter and faster.
Sam out injured.
Yeah, as a former "pro" XC racer (- had a team and sponsorship contracts but wasn't ever fast or got noteworthy results) I think the whole EDR-E thing is pretty disgusting. It is a competition ( - I'm hesitant to even call it a sport) where the deciding factor is not your skill, power or endurance, but mainly who has the best equipment.
Claiming that mountainbiking and e-biking are the same thing is literally like saying that it's the same wheter you hike up a mountain or take the gondola to the top.
The whole e-bike "racing" thing is basically just an industry ploy to generate fake hype and normalize e-bikes - because those make the industry more money than mountainbikes. It speaks volumes about the UCI and the ESO that they wouldn't stand up to protect mountainbiking as a sports competition from this nonsense and rather just play along.
Staying in August might have been better if they wanted to attract more riders. There is a few national championships plus Hardline in July that will keep some riders busy. Innsbruck was on the way to Val di sole so teams/riders could easily make the stop. Whistler would be a big distribution with travel and time zone changes ahead of world champs. I think you’ll see most of the Canadian riders on the start list but few international riders.
started a VDS thread here - stefan garlicki track walk discusses changes (like more turns to slow down, but also some filled-in holes etc) - https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/hub/all-things-val-di-sole-world-cup
How do you feel about motocross?
no fitness involved there… just who has the fastest motorcycle 😂
I agree e bike racing is kinda stupid but still.
amaury with a candid post
I second Amaury's questions about safety.
Our rider Tristan Lemire had a bad crash in practice that caused him to fall just to the side of the track. He came to a stop on the tree pictured here. He was very lucky to have only broken a metacarpal and will be back in Andorra.
He very easily could have been impaled by the branches on these logs. He fell directly onto this pile of shrapnel. This is literally 5' off the side of the steepest part of the track inside the B zone. It's insane that this area is not cleared before racers take their first practice runs. Over the weekend I heard constant chatter about how there was debris on the side of the track all the way down.
I'm glad to see that Amaury is speaking up, they are very valid concerns.
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