Primoz, I think you hypothesis is spot on. If I was lighter, had a shorter travel bike or was into mellower rides (or even more manmade flowy trails) then I'd definitely go with a lighter casing and light inserts.
Madsam9, what you say goes inline with what I've said before several times, I think they're matching the tyre offerings with the actual riding style they're used to
For what kind of riding, so DH vs. more Enduro like, what kind of speeds, etc.
Is it possible that a lighter tyre with the added...
For what kind of riding, so DH vs. more Enduro like, what kind of speeds, etc.
Is it possible that a lighter tyre with the added 'just in case' protection of an insert is better for a slower, lighter rider on a shorter travel bike that doesn't push the bike as much?
In my very limited experience, the WE are punture resistant, but even with cushcore, if you are on high speed berms the tires do not have the support that the DH ones provide.. shitty sensation.. however, natural tracks at lower speeds, the current WE feel good, and the inserts (in the rear) help with the feeling and protection of course.. horses for courses.... now if you want a set and forget tire and dont mind the weight.. DH csg all the way..
For what kind of riding, so DH vs. more Enduro like, what kind of speeds, etc.
Is it possible that a lighter tyre with the added...
For what kind of riding, so DH vs. more Enduro like, what kind of speeds, etc.
Is it possible that a lighter tyre with the added 'just in case' protection of an insert is better for a slower, lighter rider on a shorter travel bike that doesn't push the bike as much?
In my very limited experience, the WE are punture resistant, but even with cushcore, if you are on high speed berms the tires do not have...
In my very limited experience, the WE are punture resistant, but even with cushcore, if you are on high speed berms the tires do not have the support that the DH ones provide.. shitty sensation.. however, natural tracks at lower speeds, the current WE feel good, and the inserts (in the rear) help with the feeling and protection of course.. horses for courses.... now if you want a set and forget tire and dont mind the weight.. DH csg all the way..
My experience with the wild enduros is similar. Rode through enough high speed rock gardens at ~28psi rear and 25psi front that I completely destroyed my i9 rear rim with rock strikes but the tire outlived the rim. Adversely though the tire blew out when the sidewall tore away from the bead in a g out corner. Just ordered 3 of the DH34 bike park for a rear bike park tire this summer, insane pricing for a tubeless DH tire. Very interested to see how they grip on wet rocks and roots in northern New England
The DH34 Bike park I've been riding (rear) doesn't lack support, it's better than the DD Maxxis it replaced. It also has one more layer of carcass compared to the Wild Enduros tho. The grip is great, but I've only been riding in dryish conditions so far. I always buy one when they're in stock -even if I was shopping for other stuff- cause for the price (but also in general) they're just too good for the type or riding I do.
For what kind of riding, so DH vs. more Enduro like, what kind of speeds, etc.
Is it possible that a lighter tyre with the added...
For what kind of riding, so DH vs. more Enduro like, what kind of speeds, etc.
Is it possible that a lighter tyre with the added 'just in case' protection of an insert is better for a slower, lighter rider on a shorter travel bike that doesn't push the bike as much?
I ride DH (Enduro?), I pedal up a pro GRT race course basically, not the gnarliest one but it should still be on the schedule if that gets going again.
I run the WEs with Cushcore for the following reasons; because it gives me ample protection, because I bought cushcore already, and because I bought a ton of WEs from Merlin Cycles for like 35$ a tire.
I prefer the DH22s with no cushcore, but they are so expensive. If I could do it all over again I wouldnt have bought CC and woulda just stuck to DH22 front back. I have to run a lot of pressure to keep the WEs from rolling, CC doesnt help much with roll ime.
Lots of pressure being how much? I run 1,5 bar (just shy of 22 psi apparently) front and rear on my WT EXOs and don't have any problems (ARD in the rear). Maybe I just don't corner hard enough?
Lots of pressure being how much? I run 1,5 bar (just shy of 22 psi apparently) front and rear on my WT EXOs and don't have...
Lots of pressure being how much? I run 1,5 bar (just shy of 22 psi apparently) front and rear on my WT EXOs and don't have any problems (ARD in the rear). Maybe I just don't corner hard enough?
You probably corner hard enough lol. I run like 25/27psi in the WE, they are rollier than maxxis tires I have run.
I have run waaayy too much lsc in fork for long periods of time though, which contributes a lot to roll ime. But I went back and forth with DH22 vs WE on the same setup and just noticed that the DH22 is much less rolly.
Lots of pressure being how much? I run 1,5 bar (just shy of 22 psi apparently) front and rear on my WT EXOs and don't have...
Lots of pressure being how much? I run 1,5 bar (just shy of 22 psi apparently) front and rear on my WT EXOs and don't have any problems (ARD in the rear). Maybe I just don't corner hard enough?
You probably corner hard enough lol. I run like 25/27psi in the WE, they are rollier than maxxis tires I have run.
I have run waaayy...
You probably corner hard enough lol. I run like 25/27psi in the WE, they are rollier than maxxis tires I have run.
I have run waaayy too much lsc in fork for long periods of time though, which contributes a lot to roll ime. But I went back and forth with DH22 vs WE on the same setup and just noticed that the DH22 is much less rolly.
Well, you do get a carcass 1 lb heavier vs WE which is fine for steeps but not so much for average trails.
I think we also have to remember Enduro racing has changed from riding more average trails to riding the steepest and most gnarly trails one can find in an area. Tires can't be designed and sold as quickly as the sport is changing, I think that's why most Pros run DH + CC setups for Enduro right now rather than using tires like WE.
But also keep in mind in wasn't too long ago Richie Rude was winning races on 2.3 Aggressors out back, a tire most would consider more for fast-rolling trail use right now... and it's pretty likely the Richie Rude of a few years ago is still way better than you'll ever be. So the NEED for heavy tires might be a little overstated, IDK...
I also think we need to consider that for most folks, outside of bike parks with high-g berms and fast rock gardens, a tire like the current WE is much more ideal vs a DH22. While it's trendy to copy pro setups, and totally understandable why you might, their tire and suspension setups won't work well for the vast majority of riders, you simply don't smash into stuff going that fast. I certainly include myself in this, I've tried to follow top pros it's hard to even describe how much better they are, you can't fully get that by watching vids, unless it's a vid of something you've also rode so you can compare A vs B.
Well, you do get a carcass 1 lb heavier vs WE which is fine for steeps but not so much for average trails.
I think we...
Well, you do get a carcass 1 lb heavier vs WE which is fine for steeps but not so much for average trails.
I think we also have to remember Enduro racing has changed from riding more average trails to riding the steepest and most gnarly trails one can find in an area. Tires can't be designed and sold as quickly as the sport is changing, I think that's why most Pros run DH + CC setups for Enduro right now rather than using tires like WE.
But also keep in mind in wasn't too long ago Richie Rude was winning races on 2.3 Aggressors out back, a tire most would consider more for fast-rolling trail use right now... and it's pretty likely the Richie Rude of a few years ago is still way better than you'll ever be. So the NEED for heavy tires might be a little overstated, IDK...
I also think we need to consider that for most folks, outside of bike parks with high-g berms and fast rock gardens, a tire like the current WE is much more ideal vs a DH22. While it's trendy to copy pro setups, and totally understandable why you might, their tire and suspension setups won't work well for the vast majority of riders, you simply don't smash into stuff going that fast. I certainly include myself in this, I've tried to follow top pros it's hard to even describe how much better they are, you can't fully get that by watching vids, unless it's a vid of something you've also rode so you can compare A vs B.
I think tyres are such a personal and user case dependant choice that simply equating them to skill or speed is not enough.
People ride different terrains, different skills, different styles, different weights. I've had 150lb guys who ride slightly slower than me on Exo tyres questioning why I use DH casings (I'm 200lb). I also know guides who refuse to risk stopping a tour due to a tyre failure on their bike so end up using the sturdiest gear available.
I've been over a month on the DH34s, riding 3/4 times a week and honestly can't notice them anymore (except on pavement), but the grip and peace of mind are worth every gram.
I think the best is to try different tyres and casings as much as possible. They're expensive but, being a wear item, it's not that you're married with them.
Quick question regarding the DH34 bike park casing: would you consider it on par with a double down Maxxis in terms of damping and pinch protection? Tyre roll doesnt seem like the limiting factor for the air pressure I ride, but rather those square hits (would be different with rear suspension I guess).
Quick question regarding the DH34 bike park casing: would you consider it on par with a double down Maxxis in terms of damping and pinch protection...
Quick question regarding the DH34 bike park casing: would you consider it on par with a double down Maxxis in terms of damping and pinch protection? Tyre roll doesnt seem like the limiting factor for the air pressure I ride, but rather those square hits (would be different with rear suspension I guess).
At least on par, if not slightly better in my experience. I didn't get a puncture with neither of them but the sidewall of the Michelin feels a bit thicker. It surely has more cornering support with equal pressures, maybe it's slightly heavier overall compared to a DD (apart from the Assegai). I don't use inserts.
Well, you do get a carcass 1 lb heavier vs WE which is fine for steeps but not so much for average trails.
I think we...
Well, you do get a carcass 1 lb heavier vs WE which is fine for steeps but not so much for average trails.
I think we also have to remember Enduro racing has changed from riding more average trails to riding the steepest and most gnarly trails one can find in an area. Tires can't be designed and sold as quickly as the sport is changing, I think that's why most Pros run DH + CC setups for Enduro right now rather than using tires like WE.
But also keep in mind in wasn't too long ago Richie Rude was winning races on 2.3 Aggressors out back, a tire most would consider more for fast-rolling trail use right now... and it's pretty likely the Richie Rude of a few years ago is still way better than you'll ever be. So the NEED for heavy tires might be a little overstated, IDK...
I also think we need to consider that for most folks, outside of bike parks with high-g berms and fast rock gardens, a tire like the current WE is much more ideal vs a DH22. While it's trendy to copy pro setups, and totally understandable why you might, their tire and suspension setups won't work well for the vast majority of riders, you simply don't smash into stuff going that fast. I certainly include myself in this, I've tried to follow top pros it's hard to even describe how much better they are, you can't fully get that by watching vids, unless it's a vid of something you've also rode so you can compare A vs B.
I agree for the most part. Just think that we all benefit from the heavy duty tire if the terrain is both steep enough and relatively rocky/rough. If the trails are smooth then by all means run lighter tires.
I went back and forth between WE and DH on the same trails where I live and noticed I got more comfort/stability from the DH tire when things got hairy. Some of that for sure can be attributed to compound and tread pattern though.
Can’t wait to try these things out![img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/04/07/10686/s1200_FBC88823_F85D_4CD5_9470_260C1D4992E7.jpg[/img]
Can’t wait to try these things out!
Man, what a bike.
Don't know why, but SS enduro hardtails make me crazy. I frequently have this stupid impulse to sell the enduro full suspension frame and build a single speed Pipedream Moxie or Gonzo ESD
No ones posted it anywhere as far as I can tell but Michelin have the new race edition wild enduro on their website. It’s got a much heavier casing and the yellow hot patches like Sam hill’s been running
Man, what a bike.
Don't know why, but SS enduro hardtails make me crazy. I frequently have this stupid impulse to sell the enduro full suspension...
Man, what a bike.
Don't know why, but SS enduro hardtails make me crazy. I frequently have this stupid impulse to sell the enduro full suspension frame and build a single speed Pipedream Moxie or Gonzo ESD
Definitely do it, but save it for a second bike side project. Mine was one of the last Santa Cruz built Bontragers.
Haven’t ridden a lot, but have a few good trail rides in on the DH34s. In short, they’re like Velcro and they roll considerably better than I had imagined. I have no regrets, even on a SS hardtail. DH34s (maybe a 22/34 combo) will be going my FS trail bike when I build it up.
Also, I’m fairly certain the loud yellow sidewalls are good for a few extra watts...
An injury derailed my riding plans. So they've just been sitting on my workbench for now. I can say they feel like they might stick to the ceiling though. Can't wait to ride them. Regular competition line front Magi X2 was 1050 and rear Gum X was 1200 for comparison.
I've been running the Wild Enduro Racing line up front for the last month or so on a mulleted Banshee Prime build. The amount of grip in loose over hard pack, as well as on greasy roots, and frozen soil on morning rides has been fantastic and no signs of wear so far (no peeling knob/casing as I've experienced with Schwalbes, or chunking like some MaxxGrip Maxxis tires). Not the fastest rolling tire I've had but if they make a 27.5" racing line I would put it on the rear in a heartbeat. The knob compound feels somewhere in between maxxgrip and supergravity soft, and the casing somewhere between DD and DH for maxxis, not quite as rigid as Schwalbe supergravity. No experience yet in true wet/mud conditions but I would imagine they would clear very well.
I currently have an E-Wild Front 2.6 on the front and E-Wild Front 2.8 at the back( mullet). I am satisfied in all conditions except on the roots and stones. And it's especially scary when roots and stones is wet.
I am looking for an alternative to the front tire that will add extra safety on wet rocks and roots. (Winter is coming so I need a winter tire)
I wish there was a tire in the 2.6 / 29 variant on the market with a super soft compound but I don’t think there is one. Only 2.4 and 2.5
Current options are:
Maxxis Assegai EXO + MaxxGrip
Wild Enduro Front Racing Line
DH22
Mud performance is not my priority. Because when I’m in the mud I have a feeling how much the tire is holding. But on slippery roots it is ON / OFF.
I like to ride on low pressures, but i think that i do not need a tough casing. Because I never burped tire, had pinch flat or dent rim. I drive quite carefully.
That's why I listed EXO + for Maxxis. And for michelin I have no choice if I want Magi X DH compound.
I accept any advice.
Thank you.
Madsam9, what you say goes inline with what I've said before several times, I think they're matching the tyre offerings with the actual riding style they're used to
In my very limited experience, the WE are punture resistant, but even with cushcore, if you are on high speed berms the tires do not have the support that the DH ones provide.. shitty sensation.. however, natural tracks at lower speeds, the current WE feel good, and the inserts (in the rear) help with the feeling and protection of course.. horses for courses.... now if you want a set and forget tire and dont mind the weight.. DH csg all the way..
I run the WEs with Cushcore for the following reasons; because it gives me ample protection, because I bought cushcore already, and because I bought a ton of WEs from Merlin Cycles for like 35$ a tire.
I prefer the DH22s with no cushcore, but they are so expensive. If I could do it all over again I wouldnt have bought CC and woulda just stuck to DH22 front back. I have to run a lot of pressure to keep the WEs from rolling, CC doesnt help much with roll ime.
I have run waaayy too much lsc in fork for long periods of time though, which contributes a lot to roll ime. But I went back and forth with DH22 vs WE on the same setup and just noticed that the DH22 is much less rolly.
I think we also have to remember Enduro racing has changed from riding more average trails to riding the steepest and most gnarly trails one can find in an area. Tires can't be designed and sold as quickly as the sport is changing, I think that's why most Pros run DH + CC setups for Enduro right now rather than using tires like WE.
But also keep in mind in wasn't too long ago Richie Rude was winning races on 2.3 Aggressors out back, a tire most would consider more for fast-rolling trail use right now... and it's pretty likely the Richie Rude of a few years ago is still way better than you'll ever be. So the NEED for heavy tires might be a little overstated, IDK...
I also think we need to consider that for most folks, outside of bike parks with high-g berms and fast rock gardens, a tire like the current WE is much more ideal vs a DH22. While it's trendy to copy pro setups, and totally understandable why you might, their tire and suspension setups won't work well for the vast majority of riders, you simply don't smash into stuff going that fast. I certainly include myself in this, I've tried to follow top pros it's hard to even describe how much better they are, you can't fully get that by watching vids, unless it's a vid of something you've also rode so you can compare A vs B.
People ride different terrains, different skills, different styles, different weights. I've had 150lb guys who ride slightly slower than me on Exo tyres questioning why I use DH casings (I'm 200lb). I also know guides who refuse to risk stopping a tour due to a tyre failure on their bike so end up using the sturdiest gear available.
I've been over a month on the DH34s, riding 3/4 times a week and honestly can't notice them anymore (except on pavement), but the grip and peace of mind are worth every gram.
I think the best is to try different tyres and casings as much as possible. They're expensive but, being a wear item, it's not that you're married with them.
https://motorcycle.michelinman.com/bicycle/tyres/michelin-wild-enduro-f…
I went back and forth between WE and DH on the same trails where I live and noticed I got more comfort/stability from the DH tire when things got hairy. Some of that for sure can be attributed to compound and tread pattern though.
Don't know why, but SS enduro hardtails make me crazy. I frequently have this stupid impulse to sell the enduro full suspension frame and build a single speed Pipedream Moxie or Gonzo ESD
1400g, already available at several EU stores
Also, I’m fairly certain the loud yellow sidewalls are good for a few extra watts...
I am looking for an alternative to the front tire that will add extra safety on wet rocks and roots. (Winter is coming so I need a winter tire)
I wish there was a tire in the 2.6 / 29 variant on the market with a super soft compound but I don’t think there is one. Only 2.4 and 2.5
Current options are:
Maxxis Assegai EXO + MaxxGrip
Wild Enduro Front Racing Line
DH22
Mud performance is not my priority. Because when I’m in the mud I have a feeling how much the tire is holding. But on slippery roots it is ON / OFF.
I like to ride on low pressures, but i think that i do not need a tough casing. Because I never burped tire, had pinch flat or dent rim. I drive quite carefully.
That's why I listed EXO + for Maxxis. And for michelin I have no choice if I want Magi X DH compound.
I accept any advice.
Thank you.
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