I had my hands on a prototype Racing Line WE front. The thread pattern is 100% like the regular WE, very hard to judge the rubber compound by touch. Casing is way stiffer.
The rider told me it weighted 1400g, but wasn't too sure about it
I had my hands on a prototype Racing Line WE front. The thread pattern is 100% like the regular WE, very hard to judge the rubber...
I had my hands on a prototype Racing Line WE front. The thread pattern is 100% like the regular WE, very hard to judge the rubber compound by touch. Casing is way stiffer.
The rider told me it weighted 1400g, but wasn't too sure about it
it looks like folding DH casings like Maxxis and others have (equivalent to Supergravity as well). To be honest WE are not the sturdiest tires, even the wildrockr2 are stronger tires.
I think this is the predictable path for the enduro tyre market. When we see brands selling supposedly "enduro" tyres but then all the enduro racers are on DH casings you know something's wrong.
Even the new Super Gravity casing 29x2.4 Magic Mary weights 1400g on the real world
My DH34s just arrived. One's 1455g, the other 1440g, no surprises here.
The thread pattern is really really reminiscent of the DHR2, I guess the "Michelin DHR2" joke makes sense indeed.
The rubber compound is quite interesting, very tacky but not "spongy" like Maxxgrip.
The sidewalls are THICK, never seen such robust construction. Definitely set on running these without inserts
I'm now 2 rides deep on the DH34s.
Only one regret so far, not to have got them sooner.
Climbing
First, they suck in tarmac, for real. If your access climbs are paved I'd steer away from these.
Second, surprisingly, they don't suck everywhere else, at all. On anything that's not pavement such as dirt paths, cobblestone or gravel, they climb fine. A little slower to accelerate and marginally slower rolling than the WEs, but perfectly doable and the handicap can be met with a couple of weeks of training.
Third, they rock at technical climbs. This was the big surprise for me. A big percentage of my climbs are steep and technical and I was amazed how well the DH tyres performed there. They're way better here than the WE. In situations where I'd have to sprint to gain momentum or do lots of body English to keep traction with the DH34 I can just sit down and tractor through, saving energy. I know, it sounds weird to praise a DH tyre for climbing performance, but I invite you to try it.
Overall, this was so uneventful that kind of made me wish I had went all the way down the road for the DH22.
Downhill is obviously where they shine, but I guess everyone already knew this by now. One relevant detail is wet/mud performance. Michelin advertises these as an hardpack tyre, but they manage to do well in winter conditions. I'd say they're roughly on par with the WE on the mud/loose, the front maybe 5% worse at most. Makes me think how superlative the DH22 should be in the winter.
Anyway, really happy. Are these for everyone? I don't think so. If you have to climb a lot on pavement, value a very reactive and poppy bike and never had issues with casing resistance, then I'd say to look somewhere else
I think this is the predictable path for the enduro tyre market. When we see brands selling supposedly "enduro" tyres but then all the enduro racers...
I think this is the predictable path for the enduro tyre market. When we see brands selling supposedly "enduro" tyres but then all the enduro racers are on DH casings you know something's wrong.
Even the new Super Gravity casing 29x2.4 Magic Mary weights 1400g on the real world
Hmm, IDK... I mostly disagree.
Unless you're a pro level rider or a total hack that weighs a ton, a 1400+ g tire + inserts might be overkill. IMO, the regular WE at 1000g front, 1150g rear is plenty sturdy for a vast majority of riders, especially when combined with inserts. Especially if you're also doing long climbs. I know some riders who are near the top of the EWS and their skills and fitness are on a level most can't hope to even approach, even top local pros that are in another league vs most riders are not even close. I'm not sure most riders, even those into enduro racing, are best served by copying what top pros do, especially without an understanding of why. Their suspension and tire requirements are simply not the same.
Hmm, IDK... I mostly disagree.
Unless you're a pro level rider or a total hack that weighs a ton, a 1400+ g tire + inserts might...
Hmm, IDK... I mostly disagree.
Unless you're a pro level rider or a total hack that weighs a ton, a 1400+ g tire + inserts might be overkill. IMO, the regular WE at 1000g front, 1150g rear is plenty sturdy for a vast majority of riders, especially when combined with inserts. Especially if you're also doing long climbs. I know some riders who are near the top of the EWS and their skills and fitness are on a level most can't hope to even approach, even top local pros that are in another league vs most riders are not even close. I'm not sure most riders, even those into enduro racing, are best served by copying what top pros do, especially without an understanding of why. Their suspension and tire requirements are simply not the same.
Enduro, more than a riding style, refers to a racing format. If the vast majority of competitive riders on that racing format, even at a local level, are using DH tyres then somethings out of whack.
It's like if a brand was selling a range of NASCAR tyres, but then all the NASCAR racers were on F1 tyres.
What I agree with you is that the majority of amateur riders will be ok with trail casings, like Super Trail, Exo+/DD, Wild Enduros, etc.
Also, trashing tyres is induced by more factors than skill or speed. Things like your weight, general clumsiness or you area's geology have a huge impact.
Well Barel did say he prefers riding DH casing over lighter casings and inserts. I'm of the opposite thought. An insert will protect your rim and tyre better than any casing by itself will (when it comes into contact). Yeah, cutting the sidewall is a risk, but it happens rarely enough for me for it not to be a problem (a different terrain can have different issues in this regard). I've been running EXOs tubeless since... 2012? I've had one or two flats a year mostly, but since mid 2019 I've been running an insert in the rear (bought Nukeproof ARDs for Megavalanche, where I also ran a DD in the rear) and I haven't had a flat in a year and a half I think. The insert is knackered though when you take it out of the tyre, so it is doing the job.
Hmm, IDK... I mostly disagree.
Unless you're a pro level rider or a total hack that weighs a ton, a 1400+ g tire + inserts might...
Hmm, IDK... I mostly disagree.
Unless you're a pro level rider or a total hack that weighs a ton, a 1400+ g tire + inserts might be overkill. IMO, the regular WE at 1000g front, 1150g rear is plenty sturdy for a vast majority of riders, especially when combined with inserts. Especially if you're also doing long climbs. I know some riders who are near the top of the EWS and their skills and fitness are on a level most can't hope to even approach, even top local pros that are in another league vs most riders are not even close. I'm not sure most riders, even those into enduro racing, are best served by copying what top pros do, especially without an understanding of why. Their suspension and tire requirements are simply not the same.
Enduro, more than a riding style, refers to a racing format. If the vast majority of competitive riders on that racing format, even at a local...
Enduro, more than a riding style, refers to a racing format. If the vast majority of competitive riders on that racing format, even at a local level, are using DH tyres then somethings out of whack.
It's like if a brand was selling a range of NASCAR tyres, but then all the NASCAR racers were on F1 tyres.
What I agree with you is that the majority of amateur riders will be ok with trail casings, like Super Trail, Exo+/DD, Wild Enduros, etc.
Also, trashing tyres is induced by more factors than skill or speed. Things like your weight, general clumsiness or you area's geology have a huge impact.
I'm well aware it's a racing format, lol... and it is what I was referring to, I thought that was obvious since mentioning it specifically.
The car tire analogy doesn't work, AFAIK Michelin is the only tire mfg'er marketing enduro-racing specific tires and they are not a top brand, at least in the US.
I also mentioned the exception of heavy-weight hack riders as well. They are a special class of rider who are very slow yet amazingly abusive on their gear...
As far as seeing a lot of DH tire use at Enduro races, many simply copy what the top pros do, as I mentioned. Also, there isn't a lot of choices, Maxxis DD isn't much lighter vs DH and is much weaker, for most EXO isn't strong enough and aren't offered in MaxxGrip, so the top brand by far in the USA, you are pretty much stuck using their DH tires because there isn't a good alternative. Other tire brands have similar limitations in available casing/compound combinations. I've specifically asked Maxxis for an EXO or EXO+ Assegai in MaxxGrip but they refuse to consider it, so that effectively means there isn't a 29" front tire suitable for enduro racing unless you get a DH (or DD) casing.
So there are a few reasons you see a lot of DH tire use in Enduro racing, but with the exception of fast pro riders I think it's overkill and completely unnecessary. I've seen lightweight women amateur riders with Assegai DH tires, IMO it's ridiculous and is a result of tire manufacturers often poor selections of casings and compounds. They want a soft compound but can't get it with a lighter casing... this is a major issue imo.
Well Barel did say he prefers riding DH casing over lighter casings and inserts. I'm of the opposite thought. An insert will protect your rim and...
Well Barel did say he prefers riding DH casing over lighter casings and inserts. I'm of the opposite thought. An insert will protect your rim and tyre better than any casing by itself will (when it comes into contact). Yeah, cutting the sidewall is a risk, but it happens rarely enough for me for it not to be a problem (a different terrain can have different issues in this regard). I've been running EXOs tubeless since... 2012? I've had one or two flats a year mostly, but since mid 2019 I've been running an insert in the rear (bought Nukeproof ARDs for Megavalanche, where I also ran a DD in the rear) and I haven't had a flat in a year and a half I think. The insert is knackered though when you take it out of the tyre, so it is doing the job.
I agree, I think most are best served with lighter tires + inserts and a vast majority of riders and enduro racers will have a reliable setup with most of these options. For me, WE + Cush Core Pro (rear) and XC (front) have been flawless except some torn knobs. I've put holes in my Cush Core Pro, ARD and others but so far it prevents getting holes in the tires themselves. I understand inserts are more $ and more work but also offer advantages in feel, grip and reliability.
I'm well aware it's a racing format, lol... and it is what I was referring to, I thought that was obvious since mentioning it specifically.
The...
I'm well aware it's a racing format, lol... and it is what I was referring to, I thought that was obvious since mentioning it specifically.
The car tire analogy doesn't work, AFAIK Michelin is the only tire mfg'er marketing enduro-racing specific tires and they are not a top brand, at least in the US.
I also mentioned the exception of heavy-weight hack riders as well. They are a special class of rider who are very slow yet amazingly abusive on their gear...
As far as seeing a lot of DH tire use at Enduro races, many simply copy what the top pros do, as I mentioned. Also, there isn't a lot of choices, Maxxis DD isn't much lighter vs DH and is much weaker, for most EXO isn't strong enough and aren't offered in MaxxGrip, so the top brand by far in the USA, you are pretty much stuck using their DH tires because there isn't a good alternative. Other tire brands have similar limitations in available casing/compound combinations. I've specifically asked Maxxis for an EXO or EXO+ Assegai in MaxxGrip but they refuse to consider it, so that effectively means there isn't a 29" front tire suitable for enduro racing unless you get a DH (or DD) casing.
So there are a few reasons you see a lot of DH tire use in Enduro racing, but with the exception of fast pro riders I think it's overkill and completely unnecessary. I've seen lightweight women amateur riders with Assegai DH tires, IMO it's ridiculous and is a result of tire manufacturers often poor selections of casings and compounds. They want a soft compound but can't get it with a lighter casing... this is a major issue imo.
I obviously know that you're aware what enduro is. My point is that many riders refer their riding style as "enduro" but they are generally well served by trail/AM grade parts.
And I disagree that Michelin is the only one marketing tyres for enduro. Several other brands, including Maxxis, market certain threads and casings as being for enduro.
It would seem that you mostly agree with me that there's currently a product-application gap when you mention the lack of alternatives to a DH tyre. Your comment on DD casings is spot. There's also a marked difference in feel to DH casings, which some riders, light or heavy, pro or amateur, enjoy.
My original point is not that DH casing tyres are the best for every enduro racer or aggressive trail rider, but that the current options being marketed for "enduro" fail to deliver on that racing format leaving some riders with little alternative to DH casings.
And many tyre brands seem to agree with me, when you see their latest offerings
1) sort that website out, it's trash - if you're going to tell me it's better to have a harder compound on the front, explain it to me like I'm a 5 year old, not some sort of cryptic weird description like there currently is.
2) bring out a DH22 in the same casing as the Wild Enduro's - a Wild 22? (to go up against MM supertrail/super gravity) - the DH22 looks amazing but for 1.5kg no thanks lol
3) bring out the WE in the DH casing, which looks like it's happening
4) SORT OUT YOUR DISTRIBUTION!!! Been trying to get some new WE's front and rear to replace mine for about 2-3 months now with nothing in stock across the UK. Most europe places seem sold out too.
There's so much demand for Michelin especially over here in the UK and I'm sure in many other places too, but the marketing, distribution and product range has so much that could be improved on to take advantage of their tech
they've got the best rubber, treads and casings like everyone's saying on here but just not capitalising on that at all.
Just to throw a wrench in the works. In my twenty six or so year career mountain biking, I'm pretty sure that I only ever tore ONE sidewall. But I also stopped riding about the time that people started using ridiculously low tire pressures and inserts. It just seems that people are forgetting that tires have this one special ingredient that makes them work properly and it's called AIR. Without enough air even DH sidewalls will tear. Perhaps the insert should just become closed cell foam that's sold in different firmness levels to suit different tastes and just get rid of the air all together?
That would be an immense PITA to install... Maybe squirt it liquid into the tyre through the valve hole and have it foam up like the race savers back in the day?
I'm well aware it's a racing format, lol... and it is what I was referring to, I thought that was obvious since mentioning it specifically.
The...
I'm well aware it's a racing format, lol... and it is what I was referring to, I thought that was obvious since mentioning it specifically.
The car tire analogy doesn't work, AFAIK Michelin is the only tire mfg'er marketing enduro-racing specific tires and they are not a top brand, at least in the US.
I also mentioned the exception of heavy-weight hack riders as well. They are a special class of rider who are very slow yet amazingly abusive on their gear...
As far as seeing a lot of DH tire use at Enduro races, many simply copy what the top pros do, as I mentioned. Also, there isn't a lot of choices, Maxxis DD isn't much lighter vs DH and is much weaker, for most EXO isn't strong enough and aren't offered in MaxxGrip, so the top brand by far in the USA, you are pretty much stuck using their DH tires because there isn't a good alternative. Other tire brands have similar limitations in available casing/compound combinations. I've specifically asked Maxxis for an EXO or EXO+ Assegai in MaxxGrip but they refuse to consider it, so that effectively means there isn't a 29" front tire suitable for enduro racing unless you get a DH (or DD) casing.
So there are a few reasons you see a lot of DH tire use in Enduro racing, but with the exception of fast pro riders I think it's overkill and completely unnecessary. I've seen lightweight women amateur riders with Assegai DH tires, IMO it's ridiculous and is a result of tire manufacturers often poor selections of casings and compounds. They want a soft compound but can't get it with a lighter casing... this is a major issue imo.
A couple points on Maxxis:
- There are lighter MaxxGrip options available now: Assegai EXO+, DHF EXO, DHR II EXO
- Maxxis DD and DH tires are folding bead and a good 100-150 g lighter than the Michelins and others. They are similar in weight to heavy duty trail/enduro tires from other brands.
- DD and DH Maxxis tires are close in weight, but I find they ride differently. DD feels more supple and conforms to the ground better than DH. DH can feel quite wooden. So I think there is a place for both.
I'm well aware it's a racing format, lol... and it is what I was referring to, I thought that was obvious since mentioning it specifically.
The...
I'm well aware it's a racing format, lol... and it is what I was referring to, I thought that was obvious since mentioning it specifically.
The car tire analogy doesn't work, AFAIK Michelin is the only tire mfg'er marketing enduro-racing specific tires and they are not a top brand, at least in the US.
I also mentioned the exception of heavy-weight hack riders as well. They are a special class of rider who are very slow yet amazingly abusive on their gear...
As far as seeing a lot of DH tire use at Enduro races, many simply copy what the top pros do, as I mentioned. Also, there isn't a lot of choices, Maxxis DD isn't much lighter vs DH and is much weaker, for most EXO isn't strong enough and aren't offered in MaxxGrip, so the top brand by far in the USA, you are pretty much stuck using their DH tires because there isn't a good alternative. Other tire brands have similar limitations in available casing/compound combinations. I've specifically asked Maxxis for an EXO or EXO+ Assegai in MaxxGrip but they refuse to consider it, so that effectively means there isn't a 29" front tire suitable for enduro racing unless you get a DH (or DD) casing.
So there are a few reasons you see a lot of DH tire use in Enduro racing, but with the exception of fast pro riders I think it's overkill and completely unnecessary. I've seen lightweight women amateur riders with Assegai DH tires, IMO it's ridiculous and is a result of tire manufacturers often poor selections of casings and compounds. They want a soft compound but can't get it with a lighter casing... this is a major issue imo.
A couple points on Maxxis:
- There are lighter MaxxGrip options available now: Assegai EXO+, DHF EXO, DHR II EXO
- Maxxis DD and DH tires...
A couple points on Maxxis:
- There are lighter MaxxGrip options available now: Assegai EXO+, DHF EXO, DHR II EXO
- Maxxis DD and DH tires are folding bead and a good 100-150 g lighter than the Michelins and others. They are similar in weight to heavy duty trail/enduro tires from other brands.
- DD and DH Maxxis tires are close in weight, but I find they ride differently. DD feels more supple and conforms to the ground better than DH. DH can feel quite wooden. So I think there is a place for both.
Nah, Maxxis simply lies about weight. I bought two Assegai DH casing tires that were supposed to be 1300g and they were 1420g, so about the same as Michelin.
DD were a bit over 1300g, but they are weak tires for the weight and not worth the tradeoffs for a "supple" feel that probably doesn't matter. A friend on my enduro team decided to go all-in on DD for the "feel" and managed to rip several sidewalls before going back to, of all things, EXO, which didn't tear sidewalls. Tires used with CC Pro... IDK why but 120 tpi + inserts seems to = torn sidewalls.
It's good to hear we can get an EXO+ Assegai Maxxgrip. This is more than enough front tire for a vast majority of riders, especially when combined with an insert.
Nah, Maxxis simply lies about weight. I bought two Assegai DH casing tires that were supposed to be 1300g and they were 1420g, so about the...
Nah, Maxxis simply lies about weight. I bought two Assegai DH casing tires that were supposed to be 1300g and they were 1420g, so about the same as Michelin.
DD were a bit over 1300g, but they are weak tires for the weight and not worth the tradeoffs for a "supple" feel that probably doesn't matter. A friend on my enduro team decided to go all-in on DD for the "feel" and managed to rip several sidewalls before going back to, of all things, EXO, which didn't tear sidewalls. Tires used with CC Pro... IDK why but 120 tpi + inserts seems to = torn sidewalls.
It's good to hear we can get an EXO+ Assegai Maxxgrip. This is more than enough front tire for a vast majority of riders, especially when combined with an insert.
Yeah, I was actually considering going with dual DH Assegais but then saw that the actual weight is over 1400g. It seems Maxxis did some rolling change on the DH Assegai as the earlier ones were on the lower 1300g. At that weight level I prefer to go Michelin which at least if honest about weights.
About DH casing feel, I actually prefer them to more supple tyres. They are indeed kind of harsh when going slower, but once you're up to speed, and particularly on rough terrain, they feel amazing and really dampen the trail.
Nah, Maxxis simply lies about weight. I bought two Assegai DH casing tires that were supposed to be 1300g and they were 1420g, so about the...
Nah, Maxxis simply lies about weight. I bought two Assegai DH casing tires that were supposed to be 1300g and they were 1420g, so about the same as Michelin.
DD were a bit over 1300g, but they are weak tires for the weight and not worth the tradeoffs for a "supple" feel that probably doesn't matter. A friend on my enduro team decided to go all-in on DD for the "feel" and managed to rip several sidewalls before going back to, of all things, EXO, which didn't tear sidewalls. Tires used with CC Pro... IDK why but 120 tpi + inserts seems to = torn sidewalls.
It's good to hear we can get an EXO+ Assegai Maxxgrip. This is more than enough front tire for a vast majority of riders, especially when combined with an insert.
Yeah, I know a few people (myself included) who have torn EXO+ DHR II, and there are reports of EXO holding up better than EXO+ due to using 60 TPI instead of 120 tpi.
Going back to Michelin, I think they nailed the casing on the Wild Enduro Rear for all-round riding - I ran it all last summer and didn't have a single flat. And it's lighter than a DD DHR II. That casing is 3x 33 TPI.
FWIW, I ran an EXO HR2 (with an ARD insert) in the front and a DD HR2 (with an ARD insert) in the rear for the Megavalanche and more or less survived it.
I had a front puncture while training, but it was like a nail was pushed into the tyre right under the rim, even the rim was damaged. A worm fixed that. While training, on a gravel road traverse, I rode over a big rock, ~5 to 10 cm high, in the road (I was looking at where a car coming up is going and missed the rock). Tore open the sidewall, needed to patch it.
Then, after the race, at home, in a rocky, high speed chute running the same setup I got a puncture mid tread on the rear DD. The tyre was destroyed from the week of riding granite in France, but still, it was a bit surprising to puncture it in the middle of the tyre with the insert in it.
I've ran the same stuff with EXOs without a problem so DDs seem like unneeded weight with not much of a benefit to me too. Though my experience is limited.
As for DH casing, haven't tried it yet, but I have also been told it makes the bike a bit more dead feeling due to the stiffness and weight. It's logical it's better at higher speeds (kinda like stiffer suspension, that starts working correctly when you're going faster), but with a long 29er and not racing more speed is the last thing I need :D
Are there any murmurs about a DH22/34 rubber and tread with a WildEnduro casing?
pulled the trigger on a set of DH34's to try this year (after forever and a day on DHFs) now that it looks like i'm able to start riding DH again. one part is that it seems to be one of the few tubeless ready DH tires that's available in a 26" size (ducks for cover).
Didnt read everything yet but I can say from personal testing that the DH tires with no inserts are far more stable than the WEs with Cushcore. They also weigh more, but its like another step in the burly direction, you dont need CC if your tire is stiff enough.
For what kind of riding, so DH vs. more Enduro like, what kind of speeds, etc.
Is it possible that a lighter tyre with the added 'just in case' protection of an insert is better for a slower, lighter rider on a shorter travel bike that doesn't push the bike as much?
It also looks that Michelin is going with the heavier/thicker approach, the all mountain tires now have the same weight -and probably construction- of the "old" Wild Enduros. I wonder if that's what their sponsored riders asked for, as they were already riding Dh casing tires in enduro races.
The rider told me it weighted 1400g, but wasn't too sure about it
Even the new Super Gravity casing 29x2.4 Magic Mary weights 1400g on the real world
The thread pattern is really really reminiscent of the DHR2, I guess the "Michelin DHR2" joke makes sense indeed.
The rubber compound is quite interesting, very tacky but not "spongy" like Maxxgrip.
The sidewalls are THICK, never seen such robust construction. Definitely set on running these without inserts
Only one regret so far, not to have got them sooner.
Climbing
First, they suck in tarmac, for real. If your access climbs are paved I'd steer away from these.
Second, surprisingly, they don't suck everywhere else, at all. On anything that's not pavement such as dirt paths, cobblestone or gravel, they climb fine. A little slower to accelerate and marginally slower rolling than the WEs, but perfectly doable and the handicap can be met with a couple of weeks of training.
Third, they rock at technical climbs. This was the big surprise for me. A big percentage of my climbs are steep and technical and I was amazed how well the DH tyres performed there. They're way better here than the WE. In situations where I'd have to sprint to gain momentum or do lots of body English to keep traction with the DH34 I can just sit down and tractor through, saving energy. I know, it sounds weird to praise a DH tyre for climbing performance, but I invite you to try it.
Overall, this was so uneventful that kind of made me wish I had went all the way down the road for the DH22.
Downhill is obviously where they shine, but I guess everyone already knew this by now. One relevant detail is wet/mud performance. Michelin advertises these as an hardpack tyre, but they manage to do well in winter conditions. I'd say they're roughly on par with the WE on the mud/loose, the front maybe 5% worse at most. Makes me think how superlative the DH22 should be in the winter.
Anyway, really happy. Are these for everyone? I don't think so. If you have to climb a lot on pavement, value a very reactive and poppy bike and never had issues with casing resistance, then I'd say to look somewhere else
Unless you're a pro level rider or a total hack that weighs a ton, a 1400+ g tire + inserts might be overkill. IMO, the regular WE at 1000g front, 1150g rear is plenty sturdy for a vast majority of riders, especially when combined with inserts. Especially if you're also doing long climbs. I know some riders who are near the top of the EWS and their skills and fitness are on a level most can't hope to even approach, even top local pros that are in another league vs most riders are not even close. I'm not sure most riders, even those into enduro racing, are best served by copying what top pros do, especially without an understanding of why. Their suspension and tire requirements are simply not the same.
It's like if a brand was selling a range of NASCAR tyres, but then all the NASCAR racers were on F1 tyres.
What I agree with you is that the majority of amateur riders will be ok with trail casings, like Super Trail, Exo+/DD, Wild Enduros, etc.
Also, trashing tyres is induced by more factors than skill or speed. Things like your weight, general clumsiness or you area's geology have a huge impact.
The car tire analogy doesn't work, AFAIK Michelin is the only tire mfg'er marketing enduro-racing specific tires and they are not a top brand, at least in the US.
I also mentioned the exception of heavy-weight hack riders as well. They are a special class of rider who are very slow yet amazingly abusive on their gear...
As far as seeing a lot of DH tire use at Enduro races, many simply copy what the top pros do, as I mentioned. Also, there isn't a lot of choices, Maxxis DD isn't much lighter vs DH and is much weaker, for most EXO isn't strong enough and aren't offered in MaxxGrip, so the top brand by far in the USA, you are pretty much stuck using their DH tires because there isn't a good alternative. Other tire brands have similar limitations in available casing/compound combinations. I've specifically asked Maxxis for an EXO or EXO+ Assegai in MaxxGrip but they refuse to consider it, so that effectively means there isn't a 29" front tire suitable for enduro racing unless you get a DH (or DD) casing.
So there are a few reasons you see a lot of DH tire use in Enduro racing, but with the exception of fast pro riders I think it's overkill and completely unnecessary. I've seen lightweight women amateur riders with Assegai DH tires, IMO it's ridiculous and is a result of tire manufacturers often poor selections of casings and compounds. They want a soft compound but can't get it with a lighter casing... this is a major issue imo.
And I disagree that Michelin is the only one marketing tyres for enduro. Several other brands, including Maxxis, market certain threads and casings as being for enduro.
It would seem that you mostly agree with me that there's currently a product-application gap when you mention the lack of alternatives to a DH tyre. Your comment on DD casings is spot. There's also a marked difference in feel to DH casings, which some riders, light or heavy, pro or amateur, enjoy.
My original point is not that DH casing tyres are the best for every enduro racer or aggressive trail rider, but that the current options being marketed for "enduro" fail to deliver on that racing format leaving some riders with little alternative to DH casings.
And many tyre brands seem to agree with me, when you see their latest offerings
1) sort that website out, it's trash - if you're going to tell me it's better to have a harder compound on the front, explain it to me like I'm a 5 year old, not some sort of cryptic weird description like there currently is.
2) bring out a DH22 in the same casing as the Wild Enduro's - a Wild 22? (to go up against MM supertrail/super gravity) - the DH22 looks amazing but for 1.5kg no thanks lol
3) bring out the WE in the DH casing, which looks like it's happening
4) SORT OUT YOUR DISTRIBUTION!!! Been trying to get some new WE's front and rear to replace mine for about 2-3 months now with nothing in stock across the UK. Most europe places seem sold out too.
There's so much demand for Michelin especially over here in the UK and I'm sure in many other places too, but the marketing, distribution and product range has so much that could be improved on to take advantage of their tech
- There are lighter MaxxGrip options available now: Assegai EXO+, DHF EXO, DHR II EXO
- Maxxis DD and DH tires are folding bead and a good 100-150 g lighter than the Michelins and others. They are similar in weight to heavy duty trail/enduro tires from other brands.
- DD and DH Maxxis tires are close in weight, but I find they ride differently. DD feels more supple and conforms to the ground better than DH. DH can feel quite wooden. So I think there is a place for both.
DD were a bit over 1300g, but they are weak tires for the weight and not worth the tradeoffs for a "supple" feel that probably doesn't matter. A friend on my enduro team decided to go all-in on DD for the "feel" and managed to rip several sidewalls before going back to, of all things, EXO, which didn't tear sidewalls. Tires used with CC Pro... IDK why but 120 tpi + inserts seems to = torn sidewalls.
It's good to hear we can get an EXO+ Assegai Maxxgrip. This is more than enough front tire for a vast majority of riders, especially when combined with an insert.
About DH casing feel, I actually prefer them to more supple tyres. They are indeed kind of harsh when going slower, but once you're up to speed, and particularly on rough terrain, they feel amazing and really dampen the trail.
Going back to Michelin, I think they nailed the casing on the Wild Enduro Rear for all-round riding - I ran it all last summer and didn't have a single flat. And it's lighter than a DD DHR II. That casing is 3x 33 TPI.
I had a front puncture while training, but it was like a nail was pushed into the tyre right under the rim, even the rim was damaged. A worm fixed that. While training, on a gravel road traverse, I rode over a big rock, ~5 to 10 cm high, in the road (I was looking at where a car coming up is going and missed the rock). Tore open the sidewall, needed to patch it.
Then, after the race, at home, in a rocky, high speed chute running the same setup I got a puncture mid tread on the rear DD. The tyre was destroyed from the week of riding granite in France, but still, it was a bit surprising to puncture it in the middle of the tyre with the insert in it.
I've ran the same stuff with EXOs without a problem so DDs seem like unneeded weight with not much of a benefit to me too. Though my experience is limited.
As for DH casing, haven't tried it yet, but I have also been told it makes the bike a bit more dead feeling due to the stiffness and weight. It's logical it's better at higher speeds (kinda like stiffer suspension, that starts working correctly when you're going faster), but with a long 29er and not racing more speed is the last thing I need :D
Are there any murmurs about a DH22/34 rubber and tread with a WildEnduro casing?
Is it possible that a lighter tyre with the added 'just in case' protection of an insert is better for a slower, lighter rider on a shorter travel bike that doesn't push the bike as much?
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