EWS Doping Thread Disappearance

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UCI Enduro World Cup (EDR)
sspomer
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sspomer
Edited Date/Time 7/3/2019 11:54am
Just wanted to let everyone know that Vital did not remove the EWS doping thread. It seems as if the user who created the thread has deleted it. Every Vital user has the right to delete their forum posts at any time. Because I featured it on the homepage, once the user deleted the post, it was automatically gone from the homepage, too.

It also looks like the tweet from reece_w that kicked off that whole post has been removed from his twitter account. - edit - reece has since reached out to us and said all he'd heard was rumor, not fact, and shouldn't have made the tweet, so he deleted it. fair enough

All just FYI for you users out there,
spomer

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Stiksandstones
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Stiksandstones 11/11/2018 11:29am
11/11/2018 11:29am
Glad this wasn't a situation of 'state controlled media'.
That being said, what did I miss?
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sspomer
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sspomer 11/11/2018 11:40am
11/11/2018 11:40am Edited Date/Time 11/11/2018 11:40am
There was a tweet from Reece Wallace that stated he'd heard of some doping test failures and to get the cheaters out of the sport. Remy Metailler commented on the tweet saying he'd seen the list of riders and that "it didn't look good" (loose quote, i forget specifically). A vital member posted a screenshot of the tweet yesterday here in the forum. i homepaged the forum post. it had a fair # of views and 30 or so replies/questions/etc. all of a sudden, it was gone. scared me for a bit, but then realized the user must have removed the post (the only way for it to completely disappear unless a vital staffer nukes it...which we didn't).
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sspomer
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sspomer 11/11/2018 11:52am
11/11/2018 11:52am Edited Date/Time 11/12/2018 3:31pm
btw, lopes tweeted about "rumors" on the 9th too (this was added to that deleted thread)

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TheRealAxelRose 11/11/2018 12:21pm
11/11/2018 12:21pm
I was the initial user to post the first thread. I was approached earlier today by someone mentioned in the thread who was concerned about their comments surrounding the rumor and the potential negative impacts due to fact that it is just a rumor at this point. While attempting to just delete the comment, I accidentally deleted the entire thread. It was my mistake, I'm sorry as it seems like there was a good dialogue on the topic going on which hopefully can be continued in this new thread.
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Aushred
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Aushred 11/11/2018 12:36pm
11/11/2018 12:36pm
Keen to see how this all plays out. If the rumours are indeed true, whenever it’s time to lay the punishment, I hope that it’s swift and fair. The sooner the names are brought forward the better, as right now, the whole roster of EWS are under a cloud, which isn’t great.
No good just slapping on the wrist, like previous drug failures. Get em out and make sure that the sport is kept clean, and show that there’s severe punishment as a deterrent to everyone.
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andrew.macnaughton 11/11/2018 1:00pm
11/11/2018 1:00pm
TheRealAxelRose wrote:
I was the initial user to post the first thread. I was approached earlier today by someone mentioned in the thread who was concerned about their...
I was the initial user to post the first thread. I was approached earlier today by someone mentioned in the thread who was concerned about their comments surrounding the rumor and the potential negative impacts due to fact that it is just a rumor at this point. While attempting to just delete the comment, I accidentally deleted the entire thread. It was my mistake, I'm sorry as it seems like there was a good dialogue on the topic going on which hopefully can be continued in this new thread.
There was only one name mentioned right?
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TheRealAxelRose 11/11/2018 1:03pm
11/11/2018 1:03pm
TheRealAxelRose wrote:
I was the initial user to post the first thread. I was approached earlier today by someone mentioned in the thread who was concerned about their...
I was the initial user to post the first thread. I was approached earlier today by someone mentioned in the thread who was concerned about their comments surrounding the rumor and the potential negative impacts due to fact that it is just a rumor at this point. While attempting to just delete the comment, I accidentally deleted the entire thread. It was my mistake, I'm sorry as it seems like there was a good dialogue on the topic going on which hopefully can be continued in this new thread.
andrew.macnaughton wrote:
There was only one name mentioned right?
Not an athlete being mentioned for doping, someone who commented on the rumors on a social media post that was shared to the thread.
Fox
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Fox 11/11/2018 2:00pm
11/11/2018 2:00pm
All rumors right now at 3pm MST 11/11/18. Until we have some facts or an official statement from the EWS HQ, I think it’s better to not say any names or speculate. If this situation is real and people failed drug tests, it is a BIG deal that could end someone’s racing career.

So everybody be cool until there are some real facts from the parties involved.
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sspomer
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sspomer 11/11/2018 2:22pm
11/11/2018 2:22pm
TheRealAxelRose wrote:
I was the initial user to post the first thread. I was approached earlier today by someone mentioned in the thread who was concerned about their...
I was the initial user to post the first thread. I was approached earlier today by someone mentioned in the thread who was concerned about their comments surrounding the rumor and the potential negative impacts due to fact that it is just a rumor at this point. While attempting to just delete the comment, I accidentally deleted the entire thread. It was my mistake, I'm sorry as it seems like there was a good dialogue on the topic going on which hopefully can be continued in this new thread.
awww, bummer to hear it was as simple as pushing the wrong button. no worries either way b/c the original tweet is now gone and reece let us know all he'd heard was rumor and he shouldn't have posted about something he didn't know to be fact...so he deleted his tweet. fair enough. sometimes it's easy to post stuff w/o really thinking about who may see it or in the heat of emotion.

and, like Fox said...it's all rumors right now with no facts anywhere that i've seen. i've heard the same things i'm sure a lot of people have...it seems to be trickling through the grapevine these days (lopes' tweet) but it seems like it's just all vague speculation. i've never heard any confirmed facts about X, Y or Z. maybe those facts exist, maybe they don't. time will tell, i guess.
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thomas.gehrig 11/11/2018 6:01pm
11/11/2018 6:01pm
doping? as in lance armstrong kinda doping or more like testing positive for weed or such?
Stiksandstones
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Stiksandstones 11/11/2018 6:08pm
11/11/2018 6:08pm
thomas.gehrig wrote:
doping? as in lance armstrong kinda doping or more like testing positive for weed or such?
Probably some cold meds type shit, if I were a guessing man...the stakes in this sport aren't rich enough for Lance type cheating.
But then again, there were those canadian XC dudes years ago that did EPO, so, maybe there is an alibaba for dope?
Maybe, it's better to say "the stakes aren't rich enough in DH and EWS, because it's not an olympic sport" and things always seem to go sideways when the olympics are involved.
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jimmypop
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jimmypop 11/11/2018 7:10pm
11/11/2018 7:10pm
thomas.gehrig wrote:
doping? as in lance armstrong kinda doping or more like testing positive for weed or such?
Stiksandstones wrote:
Probably some cold meds type shit, if I were a guessing man...the stakes in this sport aren't rich enough for Lance type cheating. But then again...
Probably some cold meds type shit, if I were a guessing man...the stakes in this sport aren't rich enough for Lance type cheating.
But then again, there were those canadian XC dudes years ago that did EPO, so, maybe there is an alibaba for dope?
Maybe, it's better to say "the stakes aren't rich enough in DH and EWS, because it's not an olympic sport" and things always seem to go sideways when the olympics are involved.
Those Canadians... years ago. Yeah, I'm sure XC is all cleans at the top these days. And that the rogue group of Canuck XC riders from the early 2000s were and are the only PED users. I bet the one who went on to win a grand tour on the road did that on bread and water, right?

The argument about low stakes falls apart when you look at masters doping. It's a hobby for that set and some of those guys (and gals) are on full programs. EWS is highly competitive and riders are competing for just a few factory spots. The incentive is certainly there.

How someone so close to the sport can be so naive is a bit puzzling. It might not be full on EPO and blood bags, but I bet if there's cheating involved the participants know they're either pushing the limits or outright trying to beat the system.

I'd love to know what kind of "supplements" some of these top DH racers - particularly those with trainers known for wacky ideas - are taking.
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carll
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carll 11/11/2018 8:32pm
11/11/2018 8:32pm
So this redacted article must be about Karim Amour, yeah?

https://dirtmountainbike.com/news/french-enduro-rider-tests-positive-fo…

Low-stakes-so-no-doping argument doesn't stack up considering the event he was busted in. And they found a diuretic (hydrochlorothiazide) which is used to mask other agents so it was more serious than some cold/flu medication mix up. Will be interesting to see what comes out this time. Cheaters gon' cheat...
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dirt lover
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dirt lover 11/11/2018 10:31pm
11/11/2018 10:31pm
Stiksandstones wrote:
Probably some cold meds type shit, if I were a guessing man...the stakes in this sport aren't rich enough for Lance type cheating. But then again...
Probably some cold meds type shit, if I were a guessing man...the stakes in this sport aren't rich enough for Lance type cheating.
But then again, there were those canadian XC dudes years ago that did EPO, so, maybe there is an alibaba for dope?
Maybe, it's better to say "the stakes aren't rich enough in DH and EWS, because it's not an olympic sport" and things always seem to go sideways when the olympics are involved.
Agree with Carll and Jimmypop.

While not necessarily the MTB, there's plenty of recreational roadies around just doing local crits and such that are doped up. I know it's more of an issue in road based on history, but there's less money in a local crit race than the top end of the EWS
iceman2058
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iceman2058 11/12/2018 12:34pm
11/12/2018 12:34pm Edited Date/Time 11/12/2018 11:03pm
In an attempt to gain a little clarity, at least in regards to the timeline, we reached out to Chris Ball (the managing director and founder of the EWS), here is what he had to say regarding this issue:

"We are aware of an ongoing inquiry by the French Anti-Doping Agency (AFLD), but have yet to receive any formal notification of the process. Until that inquiry is completed and we are notified of the outcome we are unable to comment. We respect the formal process in place and will base any further action on the outcome of that process, not rumour or speculation. If the riders in question are found to be in violation of the rules, appropriate sanctions will be applied by the Enduro World Series alongside any measures taken by AFLD.” - Chris Ball, EWS

The AFLD is an independent French body charged with ensuring that participants in sports in France do not violate rules regarding doping. This organization was most often in the spotlight in matters pertaining to doping issue surrounding the Tour de France. EDIT: The AFLD was asked to come in and carry out the testing by the EWS.

We will obviously continue to monitor this situation and we'll have more information just as soon as it becomes available.



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MPH24
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MPH24 11/12/2018 1:57pm
11/12/2018 1:57pm
thomas.gehrig wrote:
doping? as in lance armstrong kinda doping or more like testing positive for weed or such?
Stiksandstones wrote:
Probably some cold meds type shit, if I were a guessing man...the stakes in this sport aren't rich enough for Lance type cheating. But then again...
Probably some cold meds type shit, if I were a guessing man...the stakes in this sport aren't rich enough for Lance type cheating.
But then again, there were those canadian XC dudes years ago that did EPO, so, maybe there is an alibaba for dope?
Maybe, it's better to say "the stakes aren't rich enough in DH and EWS, because it's not an olympic sport" and things always seem to go sideways when the olympics are involved.
Stiks probably has a better sense of the financial stakes at play, but if getting access to some drugs cost even a couple thousand for a rider to hit some bonuses that are worth 10K, 20K, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if some riders did it.
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Salespunk
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Salespunk 11/12/2018 3:09pm
11/12/2018 3:09pm
Blanket statement here, but you had a high growth area in cycling and racing that was unmonitored for YEARS. I personally do not believe for a second that the sport was clean in the early days up until the association with UCI started recently. There was too much of an incentive and almost zero negative consequence for these riders. All it takes is one rider doing it to make everyone else feel like they have to in order to keep up. I do believe that it is getting cleaned up because there is not enough money in Enduro/EWS racing to stay ahead of the testing.

BTW if you have not seen it yet, watch Icarus on Netflix. You will learn very quickly that doping is not about money, it is about ego and the desire to win at any cost.
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JLF1200
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JLF1200 11/12/2018 3:48pm
11/12/2018 3:48pm
There are plenty of reasons pro riders cheat that aren't about profits or ego. Sure, they're competitive and everyone wants glory, but they're also competing for the chance to maintain a rad lifestyle. There are only so many spots available, and podiums become magnitudes harder to find once you're pulling shifts at Trader Joe's to pay rent.

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pdon
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pdon 11/12/2018 4:15pm
11/12/2018 4:15pm
JLF1200 wrote:
There are plenty of reasons pro riders cheat that aren't about profits or ego. Sure, they're competitive and everyone wants glory, but they're also competing for...
There are plenty of reasons pro riders cheat that aren't about profits or ego. Sure, they're competitive and everyone wants glory, but they're also competing for the chance to maintain a rad lifestyle. There are only so many spots available, and podiums become magnitudes harder to find once you're pulling shifts at Trader Joe's to pay rent.

Trader Joe's employees always seem pretty stoked, with their "fun" Hawaiian shirts and all.

But in all seriousness, that's a good point.
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Stiksandstones
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Stiksandstones 11/12/2018 7:03pm
11/12/2018 7:03pm Edited Date/Time 11/12/2018 7:04pm
I was reminded today of the EWS principles aka, rules, tldr: if you’ve been caught cheating, ever, you ain’t racing


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thomas.gehrig 11/12/2018 7:50pm
11/12/2018 7:50pm
wasn't it Jd Swanguen that tested positive for weed a couple years back and that earned him a lifetime ban from the UCI?
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Stiksandstones 11/12/2018 8:01pm
11/12/2018 8:01pm
thomas.gehrig wrote:
wasn't it Jd Swanguen that tested positive for weed a couple years back and that earned him a lifetime ban from the UCI?
Doubt that.
JLF1200
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JLF1200 11/12/2018 8:20pm
11/12/2018 8:20pm
Now that's its legalized in one of the cycling powerhouse nations (Canada) and in most of the US, the UCI is gonna have a hard time throwing heavy fines at anyone who pisses hot for weed. In my own racing experience I knew quite a few riders who certainly tested positive and USADA apparently looked the other way. I can only speculate, but I'm guessing they just didn't want to fight that battle over a drug that clearly wasn't being used for a competitive advantage, and this was 10 years ago.
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Stiksandstones 11/12/2018 8:33pm
11/12/2018 8:33pm
thomas.gehrig wrote:
doping? as in lance armstrong kinda doping or more like testing positive for weed or such?
Stiksandstones wrote:
Probably some cold meds type shit, if I were a guessing man...the stakes in this sport aren't rich enough for Lance type cheating. But then again...
Probably some cold meds type shit, if I were a guessing man...the stakes in this sport aren't rich enough for Lance type cheating.
But then again, there were those canadian XC dudes years ago that did EPO, so, maybe there is an alibaba for dope?
Maybe, it's better to say "the stakes aren't rich enough in DH and EWS, because it's not an olympic sport" and things always seem to go sideways when the olympics are involved.
MPH24 wrote:
Stiks probably has a better sense of the financial stakes at play, but if getting access to some drugs cost even a couple thousand for a...
Stiks probably has a better sense of the financial stakes at play, but if getting access to some drugs cost even a couple thousand for a rider to hit some bonuses that are worth 10K, 20K, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if some riders did it.
I got 3 thumbs down on my post, so, very unpopular opinion haha.

In other news, I noticed what convenient timing that the EWS website is down for maintenance.
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twestengineering 11/12/2018 8:53pm
11/12/2018 8:53pm
JLF1200 wrote:
Now that's its legalized in one of the cycling powerhouse nations (Canada) and in most of the US, the UCI is gonna have a hard time...
Now that's its legalized in one of the cycling powerhouse nations (Canada) and in most of the US, the UCI is gonna have a hard time throwing heavy fines at anyone who pisses hot for weed. In my own racing experience I knew quite a few riders who certainly tested positive and USADA apparently looked the other way. I can only speculate, but I'm guessing they just didn't want to fight that battle over a drug that clearly wasn't being used for a competitive advantage, and this was 10 years ago.
There are dozens of supplements/drugs that are legal in most countries that are banned by WADA/USADA, so I doubt that will change anything. And as the JD Swanguan sanction states, the penalty for his positive test was reduced since it could have had a "credible non-doping explanation".


Cannabinoids are listed as Specified Substances because they could be susceptible to a credible non-doping explanation, and therefore use of those substances can result in a reduced sanction.--- USADA
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iceman2058
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iceman2058 11/12/2018 11:06pm
11/12/2018 11:06pm
Further to the statement from the EWS we published earlier on in the thread, the EWS would like to clarify that the AFLD was requested by the EWS to come in and carry out the testing.
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Forked Tongue 11/13/2018 5:11am
11/13/2018 5:11am
Stiksandstones wrote:
I was reminded today of the EWS principles aka, rules, tldr: if you’ve been caught cheating, ever, you ain’t racing [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2018/11/12/6944/s1200_7AD5D25F_27B9_45D9_8F6B_B3B0C6B7CD65.jpg[/img]
I was reminded today of the EWS principles aka, rules, tldr: if you’ve been caught cheating, ever, you ain’t racing


There is no back stop date, could be for just one year....

Also whatever happened to the rider that was banned right in the infancy of the EWS, I see they are back racing....
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That-Norco-Dude 11/13/2018 6:36am
11/13/2018 6:36am
tractionmag wrote:
#bringbackdelbosco
Speaking of Dope and "doping", remember when Gary Houseman won the Grouse world cup in 2003 and then was stripped?

(or that Mik Pascal rode to 6th in the absolute mud bath when none of the top riders could come close to Houseman's time)
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