MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Edthorne
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293
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4/17/2020
Location
CA
Fantasy
1974th
1/16/2023 7:51am
Edthorne wrote:
NSB cranks     

NSB cranks Screenshot 20230114 142714 Instagram.jpg?VersionId=QGCPIB4.hx2Ss

 20230114 142845.jpg?VersionId=4BvbtrxEhV4

 

pinkrobe wrote:

That crank looks disturbingly like the Race Face LP crankset I bought in 1992...

Oh good I'm not the only one who saw those cranks from NSB and went... "I have seen these before" haha I gotta imagine the final...

Oh good I'm not the only one who saw those cranks from NSB and went... "I have seen these before" haha

I gotta imagine the final design will be a little sexier and we are just seeing a proof of concept so to speak.

 

I seem to recall seeing a bit of a tease about these maybe a year or so ago, so I actually wouldn't be surprised if the cranks pictured are pretty close to a final design. It looks like Lewis Buchanan also has them on his Range right now actually. 

I was still in the development stage back in 1992, so I don't really have any opinion on the old RF cranks. Bearing that in mind, I kind of like the utilitarian raw alloy look on those cranks. 

1
1/16/2023 9:40am

Yesterday I saw a SRAM crank with a hole in it. Similar to those MUSA fancy pants cranks. Assume it belongs to the new AXS drivetrain, anyone know anything more?

Primoz
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SI
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783rd
1/16/2023 10:13am
FullSend wrote:
Please go take your Tesla discussion elsewhere. We aren't interested. Onto tech rumors: When out on a lazy sunday ride yesterday, I came across a guy...

Please go take your Tesla discussion elsewhere. We aren't interested.

Onto tech rumors: When out on a lazy sunday ride yesterday, I came across a guy on my home trails who had what I can only assume to be a prototype bike with him, painted or wrapped in a black and white digital camouflage pattern. The bike had the unmistakeable silhouette of the Propain Tyee and Spindrift and since Propain is a local-ish brand to me, it's probably safe to assume that it was in fact a Propain. It definitley wasn't an e-bike, but a mountainbike, and since the Tyee is the oldest bike in Propains line-up, I assume that what I saw yesterday was the new generation. I'd say the frame was carbon because it didn't have any obvious welds. It looked quite finished aswell, so the release date might be not too far away.

Anyways, take it with a grain of salt. I only saw the bike for a couple of seconds while the guy took off his jacket and helmet and loaded the bike into his van. It could just have been a regular Tyee or Spindrift with a very eccentric paint job.

There was a blow-out sale of 20 or 25 % off specifically for the Tyee in decembre or over the holidays. And it was only for the Tyee, no other models were discounted.

2
Buttons
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26
Joined
7/30/2020
Location
Provo, UT US
1/16/2023 10:21am
Yesterday I saw a SRAM crank with a hole in it. Similar to those MUSA fancy pants cranks. Assume it belongs to the new AXS drivetrain...

Yesterday I saw a SRAM crank with a hole in it. Similar to those MUSA fancy pants cranks. Assume it belongs to the new AXS drivetrain, anyone know anything more?

Yeah talked with a sram rep about them it’ll be the cheapest crank option for the new axs. I think they are going to be rs or something, sram is changing up they’re naming scheme for the new stuff. xx is top end and that’s about all I know.

Also all the new cranks are the quarq 8 bolt direct mount instead of the old 3bolt direct mount. 

1
1/16/2023 10:31am
Yesterday I saw a SRAM crank with a hole in it. Similar to those MUSA fancy pants cranks. Assume it belongs to the new AXS drivetrain...

Yesterday I saw a SRAM crank with a hole in it. Similar to those MUSA fancy pants cranks. Assume it belongs to the new AXS drivetrain, anyone know anything more?

Buttons wrote:
Yeah talked with a sram rep about them it’ll be the cheapest crank option for the new axs. I think they are going to be rs...

Yeah talked with a sram rep about them it’ll be the cheapest crank option for the new axs. I think they are going to be rs or something, sram is changing up they’re naming scheme for the new stuff. xx is top end and that’s about all I know.

Also all the new cranks are the quarq 8 bolt direct mount instead of the old 3bolt direct mount. 

Some good intel, I love this place.

This one definitely had XO etched onto the crank arm, it looked production quality. It also appeared to either be direct or 4 bolt and had a built in bashguard.

1
Buttons
Posts
26
Joined
7/30/2020
Location
Provo, UT US
1/16/2023 10:45am
Yesterday I saw a SRAM crank with a hole in it. Similar to those MUSA fancy pants cranks. Assume it belongs to the new AXS drivetrain...

Yesterday I saw a SRAM crank with a hole in it. Similar to those MUSA fancy pants cranks. Assume it belongs to the new AXS drivetrain, anyone know anything more?

Buttons wrote:
Yeah talked with a sram rep about them it’ll be the cheapest crank option for the new axs. I think they are going to be rs...

Yeah talked with a sram rep about them it’ll be the cheapest crank option for the new axs. I think they are going to be rs or something, sram is changing up they’re naming scheme for the new stuff. xx is top end and that’s about all I know.

Also all the new cranks are the quarq 8 bolt direct mount instead of the old 3bolt direct mount. 

Some good intel, I love this place. This one definitely had XO etched onto the crank arm, it looked production quality. It also appeared to either...

Some good intel, I love this place.

This one definitely had XO etched onto the crank arm, it looked production quality. It also appeared to either be direct or 4 bolt and had a built in bashguard.

There is possibly a 4 bolt spider available but I have seen the cranks and the main interface at the spindle is the Same as the 8 bolt road.

I must have had it wrong on the names, oops. They look sick though!

1
Primoz
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SI
Fantasy
783rd
1/16/2023 11:03am

*This topic is worthless without pics*

O1D4
Posts
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Location
Vancouver CA
Fantasy
1002nd
1/16/2023 11:39am
pinkrobe wrote:

That crank looks disturbingly like the Race Face LP crankset I bought in 1992...

Oh good I'm not the only one who saw those cranks from NSB and went... "I have seen these before" haha I gotta imagine the final...

Oh good I'm not the only one who saw those cranks from NSB and went... "I have seen these before" haha

I gotta imagine the final design will be a little sexier and we are just seeing a proof of concept so to speak.

 

Edthorne wrote:
I seem to recall seeing a bit of a tease about these maybe a year or so ago, so I actually wouldn't be surprised if the...

I seem to recall seeing a bit of a tease about these maybe a year or so ago, so I actually wouldn't be surprised if the cranks pictured are pretty close to a final design. It looks like Lewis Buchanan also has them on his Range right now actually. 

I was still in the development stage back in 1992, so I don't really have any opinion on the old RF cranks. Bearing that in mind, I kind of like the utilitarian raw alloy look on those cranks. 

Yoann and his 'Into the Gnar' team have had these on their bikes for a while now too.

1
k-n-i-x-o-n
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Location
Mesa, AZ US
Fantasy
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1/16/2023 11:48am
FullSend wrote:
Please go take your Tesla discussion elsewhere. We aren't interested. Onto tech rumors: When out on a lazy sunday ride yesterday, I came across a guy...

Please go take your Tesla discussion elsewhere. We aren't interested.

Onto tech rumors: When out on a lazy sunday ride yesterday, I came across a guy on my home trails who had what I can only assume to be a prototype bike with him, painted or wrapped in a black and white digital camouflage pattern. The bike had the unmistakeable silhouette of the Propain Tyee and Spindrift and since Propain is a local-ish brand to me, it's probably safe to assume that it was in fact a Propain. It definitley wasn't an e-bike, but a mountainbike, and since the Tyee is the oldest bike in Propains line-up, I assume that what I saw yesterday was the new generation. I'd say the frame was carbon because it didn't have any obvious welds. It looked quite finished aswell, so the release date might be not too far away.

Anyways, take it with a grain of salt. I only saw the bike for a couple of seconds while the guy took off his jacket and helmet and loaded the bike into his van. It could just have been a regular Tyee or Spindrift with a very eccentric paint job.

Primoz wrote:
There was a blow-out sale of 20 or 25 % off specifically for the Tyee in decembre or over the holidays. And it was only for...

There was a blow-out sale of 20 or 25 % off specifically for the Tyee in decembre or over the holidays. And it was only for the Tyee, no other models were discounted.

I think it was through November as well. Made selling mine even tougher, considering the limited visibility Propain has in the US. Amazing bike and I would definitely be interested in an updated tyee with better cable routing.

2
Big Bird
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Location
Oceano, CA US
1/16/2023 12:38pm

Didn't NSB make the original ones for Race Face back in day? 

The ones that I broke four pairs of?

bizutch
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Fletcher, NC US
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684th
1/16/2023 1:47pm Edited Date/Time 1/16/2023 1:48pm

Didn't NSB make the original ones for Race Face back in day? 

Big Bird wrote:

The ones that I broke four pairs of?

Which ironically...isn't even that long ago.  

Now...snapping square taper RaceFace cranks and the BB spindle simultaneosly...that's doing something.
Or a set of 175mm FSA's drilled as 165's on a giant, brittle ISIS BB with bearings squirting out the sides.  You probably did get to torch that combo.

The big bragging right was to bent a high end set of XTR cranks on their original spline BB. Then you could say how expensive your mistake was.

Worst of all was being able to give a set of incredibly sexy rainbow anodized Kooka cranks a sideways glance from across the parking lot and watch them shatter in your mere presence.  

Man...we've got it so good tech wise these days.

4
Big Bird
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Location
Oceano, CA US
1/16/2023 2:14pm
bizutch wrote:
Which ironically...isn't even that long ago.   Now...snapping square taper RaceFace cranks and the BB spindle simultaneosly...that's doing something. Or a set of 175mm FSA's drilled as...

Which ironically...isn't even that long ago.  

Now...snapping square taper RaceFace cranks and the BB spindle simultaneosly...that's doing something.
Or a set of 175mm FSA's drilled as 165's on a giant, brittle ISIS BB with bearings squirting out the sides.  You probably did get to torch that combo.

The big bragging right was to bent a high end set of XTR cranks on their original spline BB. Then you could say how expensive your mistake was.

Worst of all was being able to give a set of incredibly sexy rainbow anodized Kooka cranks a sideways glance from across the parking lot and watch them shatter in your mere presence.  

Man...we've got it so good tech wise these days.

How about a set of bent and cracked Profiles? The first time I rode the original Aptos jumps, no one told me you had to hit the second jump like a spine. "Flat" bottomed on the third lip. Welded them up and ran 'em for years after. You can't do that with "Forged." aluminum. Oh, and I'm still running my clunky XTR's on my Hunter.

1
Kango
Posts
24
Joined
1/4/2023
Location
Calgary, AB CA
1/16/2023 4:45pm
Edthorne wrote:
NSB cranks     

NSB cranks Screenshot 20230114 142714 Instagram.jpg?VersionId=QGCPIB4.hx2Ss

 20230114 142845.jpg?VersionId=4BvbtrxEhV4

 

pinkrobe wrote:

That crank looks disturbingly like the Race Face LP crankset I bought in 1992...

Oh good I'm not the only one who saw those cranks from NSB and went... "I have seen these before" haha I gotta imagine the final...

Oh good I'm not the only one who saw those cranks from NSB and went... "I have seen these before" haha

I gotta imagine the final design will be a little sexier and we are just seeing a proof of concept so to speak.

 

Looks very similar to Canfield cranks.

FullSend
Posts
329
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7/14/2021
Location
DE
Fantasy
1197th
1/17/2023 5:22am
FullSend wrote:
Please go take your Tesla discussion elsewhere. We aren't interested. Onto tech rumors: When out on a lazy sunday ride yesterday, I came across a guy...

Please go take your Tesla discussion elsewhere. We aren't interested.

Onto tech rumors: When out on a lazy sunday ride yesterday, I came across a guy on my home trails who had what I can only assume to be a prototype bike with him, painted or wrapped in a black and white digital camouflage pattern. The bike had the unmistakeable silhouette of the Propain Tyee and Spindrift and since Propain is a local-ish brand to me, it's probably safe to assume that it was in fact a Propain. It definitley wasn't an e-bike, but a mountainbike, and since the Tyee is the oldest bike in Propains line-up, I assume that what I saw yesterday was the new generation. I'd say the frame was carbon because it didn't have any obvious welds. It looked quite finished aswell, so the release date might be not too far away.

Anyways, take it with a grain of salt. I only saw the bike for a couple of seconds while the guy took off his jacket and helmet and loaded the bike into his van. It could just have been a regular Tyee or Spindrift with a very eccentric paint job.

Primoz wrote:
There was a blow-out sale of 20 or 25 % off specifically for the Tyee in decembre or over the holidays. And it was only for...

There was a blow-out sale of 20 or 25 % off specifically for the Tyee in decembre or over the holidays. And it was only for the Tyee, no other models were discounted.

Yes, that could be another indicator that there's a new generation Propain Tyee right around the corner.

stoic_machine
Posts
171
Joined
12/27/2018
Location
Dildo, Newfoundland CA
1/17/2023 6:45am Edited Date/Time 1/17/2023 6:47am

Didn't NSB make the original ones for Race Face back in day? 

Big Bird wrote:

The ones that I broke four pairs of?

bizutch wrote:
Which ironically...isn't even that long ago.   Now...snapping square taper RaceFace cranks and the BB spindle simultaneosly...that's doing something. Or a set of 175mm FSA's drilled as...

Which ironically...isn't even that long ago.  

Now...snapping square taper RaceFace cranks and the BB spindle simultaneosly...that's doing something.
Or a set of 175mm FSA's drilled as 165's on a giant, brittle ISIS BB with bearings squirting out the sides.  You probably did get to torch that combo.

The big bragging right was to bent a high end set of XTR cranks on their original spline BB. Then you could say how expensive your mistake was.

Worst of all was being able to give a set of incredibly sexy rainbow anodized Kooka cranks a sideways glance from across the parking lot and watch them shatter in your mere presence.  

Man...we've got it so good tech wise these days.

I had two rare sets of Kooka cranks as a teen. I had the blue acid fade and the Camo cranks... Yes folks it doesn't need to be oil slick lol.

Later I found out the guy we purchased them from at a bike parts expo thing who said he was a sales rep for em actually was a part of theft ring of bike parts from delivery trucks.

Sold those cranks for some proper good money on eBay later in life.

 

29
Posts
154
Joined
3/9/2020
Location
AT
1/17/2023 12:34pm

itt: old people being cranky about cranks

 

Commencal coming out with a gravel bike, frame probably alloy, taking bets if the fork is going to be carbon or not

 

 

 

2
Kango
Posts
24
Joined
1/4/2023
Location
Calgary, AB CA
1/17/2023 5:19pm
29 wrote:
itt: old people being cranky about cranks   Commencal coming out with a gravel bike, frame probably alloy, taking bets if the fork is going to...

itt: old people being cranky about cranks

 

Commencal coming out with a gravel bike, frame probably alloy, taking bets if the fork is going to be carbon or not

 

 

 

Looks like she was dropped by Specialized from all that ambassador stuff. Good for her for finding a new sponsor.

2
1/18/2023 5:48am
29 wrote:
itt: old people being cranky about cranks   Commencal coming out with a gravel bike, frame probably alloy, taking bets if the fork is going to...

itt: old people being cranky about cranks

 

Commencal coming out with a gravel bike, frame probably alloy, taking bets if the fork is going to be carbon or not

 

 

 

Kango wrote:

Looks like she was dropped by Specialized from all that ambassador stuff. Good for her for finding a new sponsor.

isn't she also kilian brons gf? long time commencal athlete

Losifer
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Sandia Park, NM US
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1/18/2023 8:09am
Losifer wrote:
 

Trinity MTB has their derailleur in a box ready to test.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CniFM1yqqPW/?igshid=MWI4MTIyMDE=

Primoz wrote:

Really wondering what their wide range gearbox will look like. Supposedly something is in the works.

Yeah, really curious how they're going to pull that off.

Based on the clever way they're approaching this, I think this could be a major step forward in removing the drivetrain mass from the unsprung mass.

1
1/18/2023 8:15am
Losifer wrote:
Yeah, really curious how they're going to pull that off. Based on the clever way they're approaching this, I think this could be a major step...

Yeah, really curious how they're going to pull that off.

Based on the clever way they're approaching this, I think this could be a major step forward in removing the drivetrain mass from the unsprung mass.

I like what trinity is doing with the BB area mount that can work for normal/e-bike/gearbox etc.

seems like a design standardization here could make a lot of things compatible.

1
MTBrent
Posts
55
Joined
7/7/2015
Location
Concord, NH US
1/18/2023 8:41am
Losifer wrote:
 

Trinity MTB has their derailleur in a box ready to test.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CniFM1yqqPW/?igshid=MWI4MTIyMDE=

Primoz wrote:

Really wondering what their wide range gearbox will look like. Supposedly something is in the works.

Losifer wrote:
Yeah, really curious how they're going to pull that off. Based on the clever way they're approaching this, I think this could be a major step...

Yeah, really curious how they're going to pull that off.

Based on the clever way they're approaching this, I think this could be a major step forward in removing the drivetrain mass from the unsprung mass.

My guess would be basically the same current setup, but with two opposed-direction DH-sized cassettes; one on the crankshaft and one on the jack/output shaft and some kind of wizardry that moves them into the proper ratios.  At the extreme ends, two X01 DH cassettes would give 576% range... (24/10)/(10/24) = 5.76.

3
Losifer
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Location
Sandia Park, NM US
Fantasy
1774th
1/18/2023 8:52am
Primoz wrote:

Really wondering what their wide range gearbox will look like. Supposedly something is in the works.

Losifer wrote:
Yeah, really curious how they're going to pull that off. Based on the clever way they're approaching this, I think this could be a major step...

Yeah, really curious how they're going to pull that off.

Based on the clever way they're approaching this, I think this could be a major step forward in removing the drivetrain mass from the unsprung mass.

MTBrent wrote:
My guess would be basically the same current setup, but with two opposed-direction DH-sized cassettes; one on the crankshaft and one on the jack/output shaft and...

My guess would be basically the same current setup, but with two opposed-direction DH-sized cassettes; one on the crankshaft and one on the jack/output shaft and some kind of wizardry that moves them into the proper ratios.  At the extreme ends, two X01 DH cassettes would give 576% range... (24/10)/(10/24) = 5.76.

That's kinda what I've gathered from the interviews I've heard. Just super curious about that wizardry!

DubC
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Location
CA US
Fantasy
3120th
1/18/2023 9:10am

Hopefully someone will come out with a functional gearbox that just bolts to the motor mounts on an ebike or something. I don't want one (very happy with function and reliability of modern drivetrains); it would just be nice if the "gearbox or die" people would crawl back in their caves for a while. 

1
2
Primoz
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SI
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783rd
1/18/2023 9:12am

Two DH cassettes will have massive jumps between the gears for that range. At 500 % range and up, you need at least 12 gears to make it work. Yeah, there will always be some people that will say '9 is enough' (or 7 in this case), but in reality, jumps between gears above 20 % are not a fun thing to have.

To make a back to back cassette gearbox work, you need to have 1 teeth differences between sprockets on each cassette. 2 teeth of difference (for example 11-13-15 etc.) gives 516 % range but 25 to 30 % jumps between gears. With 1T jumps, you need 15 gear pairs to get over the 500 % range threshold (two 11-25 cassettes).

While this is still packageable inside the frame (Honda's practical cassette and derailleur in a box approach doesn't work for modern 12spd 10-50+ cassettes), I do not see how Trinity's approach of moving the cassettes, but not the chain, will work when you have cassettes that wide. You'd need a whole lot of space. That's why it's also VERY interesting to me that they move the wider component (cassette) side to side, not the narrow one (the single ring on the other side).

This is why I'm very interested in how they make it work Smile

3
MTBrent
Posts
55
Joined
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Location
Concord, NH US
1/18/2023 2:03pm
Primoz wrote:
Two DH cassettes will have massive jumps between the gears for that range. At 500 % range and up, you need at least 12 gears to...

Two DH cassettes will have massive jumps between the gears for that range. At 500 % range and up, you need at least 12 gears to make it work. Yeah, there will always be some people that will say '9 is enough' (or 7 in this case), but in reality, jumps between gears above 20 % are not a fun thing to have.

To make a back to back cassette gearbox work, you need to have 1 teeth differences between sprockets on each cassette. 2 teeth of difference (for example 11-13-15 etc.) gives 516 % range but 25 to 30 % jumps between gears. With 1T jumps, you need 15 gear pairs to get over the 500 % range threshold (two 11-25 cassettes).

While this is still packageable inside the frame (Honda's practical cassette and derailleur in a box approach doesn't work for modern 12spd 10-50+ cassettes), I do not see how Trinity's approach of moving the cassettes, but not the chain, will work when you have cassettes that wide. You'd need a whole lot of space. That's why it's also VERY interesting to me that they move the wider component (cassette) side to side, not the narrow one (the single ring on the other side).

This is why I'm very interested in how they make it work Smile

Agreed on the jumps being too high for the masses relative to current 12sp setups.

However, maybe it's the singlespeeder in me, but I love the idea of the huge range with big jumps and minimal number of gears.

2
1/19/2023 12:30pm
Primoz wrote:
Two DH cassettes will have massive jumps between the gears for that range. At 500 % range and up, you need at least 12 gears to...

Two DH cassettes will have massive jumps between the gears for that range. At 500 % range and up, you need at least 12 gears to make it work. Yeah, there will always be some people that will say '9 is enough' (or 7 in this case), but in reality, jumps between gears above 20 % are not a fun thing to have.

To make a back to back cassette gearbox work, you need to have 1 teeth differences between sprockets on each cassette. 2 teeth of difference (for example 11-13-15 etc.) gives 516 % range but 25 to 30 % jumps between gears. With 1T jumps, you need 15 gear pairs to get over the 500 % range threshold (two 11-25 cassettes).

While this is still packageable inside the frame (Honda's practical cassette and derailleur in a box approach doesn't work for modern 12spd 10-50+ cassettes), I do not see how Trinity's approach of moving the cassettes, but not the chain, will work when you have cassettes that wide. You'd need a whole lot of space. That's why it's also VERY interesting to me that they move the wider component (cassette) side to side, not the narrow one (the single ring on the other side).

This is why I'm very interested in how they make it work Smile

If you move the cassettes one at a time you would have 2x the number of speeds on each cassette. EG two 7 speed cassettes would work out to 14 speeds. 

2
Primoz
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SI
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783rd
1/19/2023 12:35pm

This would actually make it much closer to what Shimano patented. The patent covers moving the chain over the back-to-back cassettes with one of the cassettes moving left and right by one sprocket to increase the number of gears.

Good one!

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