MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Big Bird
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2185
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Location
Oceano, CA US
11/9/2021 8:45pm
Primoz wrote:
Wait, you were serious? I was sure you were making fun of me for dragging Shimano in a Sram topic 😂
New Tech Rumor. SRAM has completed a hostile takeover of the Shimano Corporation. No wait. Shimano has fought back in the fourth round and seems ready to switch it up... Sorry Primoz.
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metadave
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CA
11/9/2021 11:18pm
Primoz wrote:
Wait, you were serious? I was sure you were making fun of me for dragging Shimano in a Sram topic 😂
Big Bird wrote:
New Tech Rumor. SRAM has completed a hostile takeover of the Shimano Corporation. No wait. Shimano has fought back in the fourth round and seems ready...
New Tech Rumor. SRAM has completed a hostile takeover of the Shimano Corporation. No wait. Shimano has fought back in the fourth round and seems ready to switch it up... Sorry Primoz.
I heard Huffy was swooping in last minute to buy both in a hostile take over move
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sharpy212
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GB
11/10/2021 10:29am
Hahahahaha Huffy! oh man that’s a real knee slapper that one! did you make that one up yourself!? Haha so funny!
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jonkranked
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Norristown, PA US
11/12/2021 9:05am
iceman2058 wrote:
Well, this looks interesting... https://www.vitalmtb.com/videos/member/A-Better-Derailleur-Supre-Drive-Splits-the-Traditional-Derailleur-in-Two,39448/iceman2058,94 [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/11/12/11605/s1200_supre.jpg[/img]
that DOES look interesting. i watched the video. any idea what bike company he's working with already?
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Uncle Cliffy
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Medford, OR US
11/12/2021 9:12am
iceman2058 wrote:
Well, this looks interesting... https://www.vitalmtb.com/videos/member/A-Better-Derailleur-Supre-Drive-Splits-the-Traditional-Derailleur-in-Two,39448/iceman2058,94 [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/11/12/11605/s1200_supre.jpg[/img]
Holy chain slap Batman!

In all seriousness, that looks pretty amazing.
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TimBud
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GB
11/12/2021 9:14am
jonkranked wrote:
that DOES look interesting. i watched the video. any idea what bike company he's working with already?
that DOES look interesting. i watched the video. any idea what bike company he's working with already?
Got to be Forbidden. Surely
Edthorne
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CA
11/12/2021 9:16am
iceman2058 wrote:
Well, this looks interesting... https://www.vitalmtb.com/videos/member/A-Better-Derailleur-Supre-Drive-Splits-the-Traditional-Derailleur-in-Two,39448/iceman2058,94 [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/11/12/11605/s1200_supre.jpg[/img]
I've actually been lucky enough to ride this bike, as well as the prototype Cedric built prior to this. The drivetrain works really well. As Matt Beer mentions in the article, blindfolded you would not be able to tell the difference in shifting quality between this and a conventional derailleur. I can also confirm that Cedric is a great guy and is genuinely looking to make the mountain biking experience better for everyone.
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jonkranked
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Norristown, PA US
11/12/2021 9:18am Edited Date/Time 11/12/2021 9:28am
jonkranked wrote:
that DOES look interesting. i watched the video. any idea what bike company he's working with already?
that DOES look interesting. i watched the video. any idea what bike company he's working with already?
TimBud wrote:
Got to be Forbidden. Surely
given that this guy is Canadian, my guess would be Norco.


edit: there's a mini interview w/ him over on that other site. he mentioned his first mountain bike was a norco.
jonkranked
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Norristown, PA US
11/12/2021 9:22am
Edthorne wrote:
I've actually been lucky enough to ride this bike, as well as the prototype Cedric built prior to this. The drivetrain works really well. As Matt...
I've actually been lucky enough to ride this bike, as well as the prototype Cedric built prior to this. The drivetrain works really well. As Matt Beer mentions in the article, blindfolded you would not be able to tell the difference in shifting quality between this and a conventional derailleur. I can also confirm that Cedric is a great guy and is genuinely looking to make the mountain biking experience better for everyone.
awesome to hear. that second bike also looks very well refined for a second iteration prototype.
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Edthorne
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CA
11/12/2021 9:44am
Edthorne wrote:
I've actually been lucky enough to ride this bike, as well as the prototype Cedric built prior to this. The drivetrain works really well. As Matt...
I've actually been lucky enough to ride this bike, as well as the prototype Cedric built prior to this. The drivetrain works really well. As Matt Beer mentions in the article, blindfolded you would not be able to tell the difference in shifting quality between this and a conventional derailleur. I can also confirm that Cedric is a great guy and is genuinely looking to make the mountain biking experience better for everyone.
jonkranked wrote:
awesome to hear. that second bike also looks very well refined for a second iteration prototype.
All in all, it's a great bike, it's a similar to an Optic in it's intention.
sspomer
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Boise, ID US
11/12/2021 9:46am
eastern canadian location...devinci?
mixmastamikal
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Salt Lake City, UT US
11/12/2021 10:29am Edited Date/Time 11/12/2021 10:30am
I am stoked to see all these cool drive train ideas that have been presented lately. This one looks really promising and I am interested to see who they are working with on this. Looks like it is not Norco which would have been cool but could definitely see it being someone like Forbidden. Are they considered a "major MTB company" at this point?
LLLLL
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IE
11/12/2021 10:35am
iceman2058 wrote:
Well, this looks interesting... https://www.vitalmtb.com/videos/member/A-Better-Derailleur-Supre-Drive-Splits-the-Traditional-Derailleur-in-Two,39448/iceman2058,94 [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/11/12/11605/s1200_supre.jpg[/img]
Looks draggy, how does it compare to a pinion drive after 4 hours of dirt and dust?
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Edthorne
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11/12/2021 10:40am
iceman2058 wrote:
Well, this looks interesting... https://www.vitalmtb.com/videos/member/A-Better-Derailleur-Supre-Drive-Splits-the-Traditional-Derailleur-in-Two,39448/iceman2058,94 [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/11/12/11605/s1200_supre.jpg[/img]
LLLLL wrote:
Looks draggy, how does it compare to a pinion drive after 4 hours of dirt and dust?
It's actually not draggy. By having the same chain tension in all gears, the drag in the larger cogs (where you'd notice it) is quite low. He's also using pretty large pulley wheels and a large idler, which further reduces drag.
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LLLLL
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IE
11/12/2021 10:51am
iceman2058 wrote:
Well, this looks interesting... https://www.vitalmtb.com/videos/member/A-Better-Derailleur-Supre-Drive-Splits-the-Traditional-Derailleur-in-Two,39448/iceman2058,94 [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/11/12/11605/s1200_supre.jpg[/img]
LLLLL wrote:
Looks draggy, how does it compare to a pinion drive after 4 hours of dirt and dust?
Edthorne wrote:
It's actually not draggy. By having the same chain tension in all gears, the drag in the larger cogs (where you'd notice it) is quite low...
It's actually not draggy. By having the same chain tension in all gears, the drag in the larger cogs (where you'd notice it) is quite low. He's also using pretty large pulley wheels and a large idler, which further reduces drag.
Not convinced on the larger pully wheel thing tbh. Moving then derailer is quite the feat all the same 👍
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Primoz
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SI
11/12/2021 11:56am Edited Date/Time 11/12/2021 12:02pm
It's about as draggy as a normal drivetrain is. The Pinion should be more draggy, as it has constant mesh gears, 6, 7 or 9 gear pairs (9, 12 or 18 gears, as it's a 2-stage gearbox, so 3x3, 3x4 or a 3x6 arrangement), all the bearings those gears require and any shifting mechanism rotating and moving with them. A Pinion does have the benefit of a straight chain, but everybody usually says you can feel the drag of a (invloute geartrain executed!) gearbox (involute part emans it would not apply to the Honda solution and/or Shimano patent).

As for large pulleys, the larger the better - the larger the pulley, the slower the bearing rotates as drag in bearings increases with rotational speeds increasing. Plus, the larger the pulley, the less chain links rotate and thus cause less frictional losses.
There's a reason Protour teams supported by Sram pushed for an 11-x cassette with standard front rings as opposed to the 10-x cassettes, that enabled Sram to use smaller front rings, the 10T is so small, the losses increase and you're closer to the polygon effect rearing up its ugly head.

As for bearing losses, bike drivetrain rotational speeds are somewhat low, though with road bikes, if you're pedalling at 90 rpm in the 50-ish tooth front chainring, the 10-ish derailleur pulley will rotate at ~5-times the rotational speed of the cranks. So at roughly 400 to 500 rpm. And that's not that low anymore. With mountainbikes we're at more of a 2 to 3 ratio (30-ish teeth on the front chainring, 10 to 15 tooth pulley gears), so we're in the 250-300 rpm range. Increase that to a 20T pulley and you're in the 125 to 150-ish range.

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jonkranked
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Norristown, PA US
11/12/2021 12:20pm
Edthorne wrote:
It's actually not draggy. By having the same chain tension in all gears, the drag in the larger cogs (where you'd notice it) is quite low...
It's actually not draggy. By having the same chain tension in all gears, the drag in the larger cogs (where you'd notice it) is quite low. He's also using pretty large pulley wheels and a large idler, which further reduces drag.
does it get a lot of chain slap? the PB article mentioned how quiet it is, i'd guess no despite seeing the chain move around a bit in the video, but am curious on your first hand impressions.
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Edthorne
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CA
11/12/2021 12:33pm
Edthorne wrote:
It's actually not draggy. By having the same chain tension in all gears, the drag in the larger cogs (where you'd notice it) is quite low...
It's actually not draggy. By having the same chain tension in all gears, the drag in the larger cogs (where you'd notice it) is quite low. He's also using pretty large pulley wheels and a large idler, which further reduces drag.
jonkranked wrote:
does it get a lot of chain slap? the PB article mentioned how quiet it is, i'd guess no despite seeing the chain move around a...
does it get a lot of chain slap? the PB article mentioned how quiet it is, i'd guess no despite seeing the chain move around a bit in the video, but am curious on your first hand impressions.
No it's pretty quiet
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11/15/2021 6:14am
David9180 wrote:
TRUNNION CC IL [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/11/15/11607/s1200_il.jpg[/img]
TRUNNION CC IL



Wasn't it trunnion before? The Rulezman build was very - interesting...
11/15/2021 7:24am
No, it’s not been available in trunnion. Really hope it fits Evil frames.
Mr.Nally
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430
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AS
11/19/2021 1:43am
Anyone know what this proto-looking tire on Myriam Nicole's bike is? A Schwalbe Magic Mike?



11/19/2021 2:27am
Mr.Nally wrote:
Anyone know what this proto-looking tire on Myriam Nicole's bike is? A Schwalbe Magic Mike? [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/11/19/11628/s1200_Screenshot_20211112_191520_01.jpg[/img]
Anyone know what this proto-looking tire on Myriam Nicole's bike is? A Schwalbe Magic Mike?



Those side knobs look very Minion inspired which hasn't been seen in Schwalbe line up to date. Any chance the team has a new tire sponsor ?
Edthorne
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CA
11/19/2021 10:08am
I feel like this might already be in here like 20 pages back, but in case it's not here you go.


TayRob
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CA US
11/19/2021 10:19am
Edthorne wrote:
I feel like this might already be in here like 20 pages back, but in case it's not here you go. [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/11/19/11629/s1200_e13tire.jpg[/img]
I feel like this might already be in here like 20 pages back, but in case it's not here you go.


I may or may not have been gifted one of these tires and may or may not have a couple hundred miles on it already. Casing construction is stiff, but not too stiff. I only have Specialized tires to compare it to and it sits in between the grid trail and grid gravity. 2.5", but on the narrow side. Rubber compound seems good, little to no signs of wear so far. Never weighed it, I would guess 1,000-ish grams. Tread pattern works well, I can give it the best compliment I can give any tire which is I simply forget about it. It just works and doesn't have any quirky issues. I was told "soon" on the, release date... That was 2 months ago.
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