MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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jonkranked
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9/27/2021 7:11am
anybody happen to have a line as to the status of the Box stealth hubs? same supply chain issues of the rest of the industry? or is something else going on?
Losifer
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9/27/2021 7:54am
jonkranked wrote:
anybody happen to have a line as to the status of the Box stealth hubs? same supply chain issues of the rest of the industry? or...
anybody happen to have a line as to the status of the Box stealth hubs? same supply chain issues of the rest of the industry? or is something else going on?
Box has had the same type of supply issues as eve- their top end Prime 9 stuff hasn’t been available yet, AFAIK.
metadave
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9/27/2021 11:56am
We actually just had a few sets of three Prime 9 speed stuff from box come through the doors and sell immediately. Even the three level stuff is pretty nice. It'll be nice to see the top level stuff.
boozed
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9/27/2021 6:35pm
TayRob wrote:
No new Enduro frame until this coming spring.
It'll basically be the Kenevo SL frame minus the motor.
But it's already spring!
4
1
9/28/2021 4:58am
TayRob wrote:
No new Enduro frame until this coming spring.
It'll basically be the Kenevo SL frame minus the motor.
Isn't the Kenevo SL basically the Enduro frame, but WITH a motor? :D
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therock911
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9/28/2021 10:38am
Curious if anyone has seen or heard details about the Revel long travel 29er coming out? i know its coming but that's all I've heard.
TayRob
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9/28/2021 12:52pm
TayRob wrote:
No new Enduro frame until this coming spring.
It'll basically be the Kenevo SL frame minus the motor.
Isn't the Kenevo SL basically the Enduro frame, but WITH a motor? :D
Yes, but it gets rid of the trunion shock, and adds adjustable headset cups. Two things that would be a nice addition to the current Enduro frame. As for the "spring" timeline, I was told March-May but that was before all the carbon factories started shutting down.
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Noeserd
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9/28/2021 1:11pm
TayRob wrote:
No new Enduro frame until this coming spring.
It'll basically be the Kenevo SL frame minus the motor.
Isn't the Kenevo SL basically the Enduro frame, but WITH a motor? :D
TayRob wrote:
Yes, but it gets rid of the trunion shock, and adds adjustable headset cups. Two things that would be a nice addition to the current Enduro...
Yes, but it gets rid of the trunion shock, and adds adjustable headset cups. Two things that would be a nice addition to the current Enduro frame. As for the "spring" timeline, I was told March-May but that was before all the carbon factories started shutting down.
I didn't knew kenevo sl used 230x65, that would be a good edition to enduro
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Edthorne
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9/28/2021 1:35pm
Isn't the Kenevo SL basically the Enduro frame, but WITH a motor? :D
TayRob wrote:
Yes, but it gets rid of the trunion shock, and adds adjustable headset cups. Two things that would be a nice addition to the current Enduro...
Yes, but it gets rid of the trunion shock, and adds adjustable headset cups. Two things that would be a nice addition to the current Enduro frame. As for the "spring" timeline, I was told March-May but that was before all the carbon factories started shutting down.
Noeserd wrote:
I didn't knew kenevo sl used 230x65, that would be a good edition to enduro
Out of interest, what was the issue with the trunnion mount on the Enduro? I've never had any issues with trunnion mounts on other bikes, so is there something specific to the mounting on the Enduro that doesn't jive with them?
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TayRob
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9/28/2021 4:04pm
TayRob wrote:
Yes, but it gets rid of the trunion shock, and adds adjustable headset cups. Two things that would be a nice addition to the current Enduro...
Yes, but it gets rid of the trunion shock, and adds adjustable headset cups. Two things that would be a nice addition to the current Enduro frame. As for the "spring" timeline, I was told March-May but that was before all the carbon factories started shutting down.
Noeserd wrote:
I didn't knew kenevo sl used 230x65, that would be a good edition to enduro
Edthorne wrote:
Out of interest, what was the issue with the trunnion mount on the Enduro? I've never had any issues with trunnion mounts on other bikes, so...
Out of interest, what was the issue with the trunnion mount on the Enduro? I've never had any issues with trunnion mounts on other bikes, so is there something specific to the mounting on the Enduro that doesn't jive with them?
Nothing specific to the Enduro, but trunion is just a bad idea as a whole. You don't want the shock to be fixed to the frame. It needs to be able to have some give and flex to reduce wear a properly take side loads without binding and excessive wear. Plus there's the fact you can also strip out a usually non replaceable piece of your shock instead of a sub $10 bolt or something.
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mfoga
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9/28/2021 6:40pm
TayRob wrote:
Nothing specific to the Enduro, but trunion is just a bad idea as a whole. You don't want the shock to be fixed to the frame...
Nothing specific to the Enduro, but trunion is just a bad idea as a whole. You don't want the shock to be fixed to the frame. It needs to be able to have some give and flex to reduce wear a properly take side loads without binding and excessive wear. Plus there's the fact you can also strip out a usually non replaceable piece of your shock instead of a sub $10 bolt or something.
Isn't a regular shock also fixed to the frame on most bikes?
NateMob
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9/28/2021 7:05pm
mfoga wrote:
Isn't a regular shock also fixed to the frame on most bikes?
Yes, with bushings that give and dampen ever so slightly and can even be mildly deformed to make up for bad frame tolerances.
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Loche
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9/28/2021 11:21pm
NateMob wrote:
Yes, with bushings that give and dampen ever so slightly and can even be mildly deformed to make up for bad frame tolerances.
Ball bearings have various level of stiffnesses which are very non-linear. The tilt direction is especially not stiff for a non-angular single row ball bearing. Depending on clearances, frame tolerances, etc, I wouldn't be surprised if a trunnion mount has more give than a DU bushing. Let alone that the other end of the shock is still on bushings.

My only gripe with trunnion is single shear vs double shear on the hardware, but the larger diameter makes up for it. I never had or heard of problems with trunnion shocks. Anyone here had issues?
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Primoz
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9/28/2021 11:30pm
You are forgetting that with trunnion mount you have two bearings that are spaced apart mounted into a relatively thick housing.

I kind of like what Pole is doing shock mounting wise. Or the old Range VLT on the bottom shock mount.
2
9/29/2021 2:52am Edited Date/Time 9/29/2021 2:53am
wonder if theres more affordable full 29 / mx dh bikes coming. Most of the usual brands have sold only their factory racing -priced setups (canyon, yt, commencal to a certain extent) for few or more seasons now.

propain rage cf seems like the best deal at the moment. especially given the flip chip allowing you to run both 2929 and 297

Noeserd
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9/29/2021 4:01am Edited Date/Time 9/29/2021 4:05am
wonder if theres more affordable full 29 / mx dh bikes coming. Most of the usual brands have sold only their factory racing -priced setups (canyon...
wonder if theres more affordable full 29 / mx dh bikes coming. Most of the usual brands have sold only their factory racing -priced setups (canyon, yt, commencal to a certain extent) for few or more seasons now.

propain rage cf seems like the best deal at the moment. especially given the flip chip allowing you to run both 2929 and 297

Dh is dying, i doubt we will even see "Affordable" lower end builds in the next years
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jonkranked
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9/29/2021 5:15am
wonder if theres more affordable full 29 / mx dh bikes coming. Most of the usual brands have sold only their factory racing -priced setups (canyon...
wonder if theres more affordable full 29 / mx dh bikes coming. Most of the usual brands have sold only their factory racing -priced setups (canyon, yt, commencal to a certain extent) for few or more seasons now.

propain rage cf seems like the best deal at the moment. especially given the flip chip allowing you to run both 2929 and 297

Noeserd wrote:
Dh is dying, i doubt we will even see "Affordable" lower end builds in the next years
part of me wonders if this is one of the reasons some companies have gone back to alloy for their DH bikes, notably the Spesh Demo and the Trek Session.
9/29/2021 5:52am
jonkranked wrote:
part of me wonders if this is one of the reasons some companies have gone back to alloy for their DH bikes, notably the Spesh Demo...
part of me wonders if this is one of the reasons some companies have gone back to alloy for their DH bikes, notably the Spesh Demo and the Trek Session.
maybe yes. Also the development of using same frame for enduro/fr + dh setup a la norco range.
4
9/29/2021 5:55am
jonkranked wrote:
part of me wonders if this is one of the reasons some companies have gone back to alloy for their DH bikes, notably the Spesh Demo...
part of me wonders if this is one of the reasons some companies have gone back to alloy for their DH bikes, notably the Spesh Demo and the Trek Session.
have to say, thought, that the prices for the new session are pretty discouraging
9/29/2021 5:57am
wonder if theres more affordable full 29 / mx dh bikes coming. Most of the usual brands have sold only their factory racing -priced setups (canyon...
wonder if theres more affordable full 29 / mx dh bikes coming. Most of the usual brands have sold only their factory racing -priced setups (canyon, yt, commencal to a certain extent) for few or more seasons now.

propain rage cf seems like the best deal at the moment. especially given the flip chip allowing you to run both 2929 and 297

Noeserd wrote:
Dh is dying, i doubt we will even see "Affordable" lower end builds in the next years
and one more thing: I've noticed that the rental fleet at my local parks wasn't double crown bikes anymore. Dunno whats the deal with big centers in north america and places like the alps. But rental orders must be pretty big chunk of dh bike sales.
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jonkranked
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9/29/2021 6:14am
maybe yes. Also the development of using same frame for enduro/fr + dh setup a la norco range.
yea, definitely a growing number of long travel enduro frames that are rated to handle a dual crown fork too. cannondale jekyll, eveil wreckoning, norco shore, etc.
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jonkranked
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9/29/2021 6:24am
have to say, thought, that the prices for the new session are pretty discouraging
out of curiosity i just checked trek's website. the HP/idler session (29 only) is a $3k frame. they still list/offer the old non HP/idler version ( 27.5 only) in carbon for $4400 and alloy for $2419. some pretty wide price differences, based primarily on frame material.

Primoz
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9/29/2021 8:19am
There were rumblings top brands only sell hundreds (as in less than 1000) DH bikes a year. So it's pretty obvious why the big ones went aluminium only in a carbon first MTB world.
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jonkranked
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9/29/2021 8:33am
Primoz wrote:
There were rumblings top brands only sell hundreds (as in less than 1000) DH bikes a year. So it's pretty obvious why the big ones went...
There were rumblings top brands only sell hundreds (as in less than 1000) DH bikes a year. So it's pretty obvious why the big ones went aluminium only in a carbon first MTB world.
i remember seeing that info as well, and was part of what led me to that assumption on frame material
Edthorne
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9/29/2021 9:20am Edited Date/Time 9/29/2021 9:23am
TayRob wrote:
Nothing specific to the Enduro, but trunion is just a bad idea as a whole. You don't want the shock to be fixed to the frame...
Nothing specific to the Enduro, but trunion is just a bad idea as a whole. You don't want the shock to be fixed to the frame. It needs to be able to have some give and flex to reduce wear a properly take side loads without binding and excessive wear. Plus there's the fact you can also strip out a usually non replaceable piece of your shock instead of a sub $10 bolt or something.
Interesting. I've never seen any of these issues in real life, though I understand how they could be a factor. Particularly if the shock's not installed properly, or if frame tolerances aren't up to par. I would also assume that the specific suspension design used on a bike might cause some of these issues to be more prevalent. I remember hearing somewhere that one of the reasons Pivot recommended against using coils on their bikes for a long time (regressive end stroke aside) was that there was no stanchion to help brace the damper body against twisting/side loading from the rear triangle.
Primoz
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9/29/2021 9:37am
It was said the 27 inch Phoenix would snap a coil shock due to side loads. Supposedly that's better on the 29er. Don't have a concrete source for that sadly, I just remember it from somewhere.

Regarding solid mounting, there's Specialized's yoke extension regularly killing shocks too.
6
9/29/2021 10:10am
Primoz wrote:
It was said the 27 inch Phoenix would snap a coil shock due to side loads. Supposedly that's better on the 29er. Don't have a concrete...
It was said the 27 inch Phoenix would snap a coil shock due to side loads. Supposedly that's better on the 29er. Don't have a concrete source for that sadly, I just remember it from somewhere.

Regarding solid mounting, there's Specialized's yoke extension regularly killing shocks too.
I snapped an old school demo shock shaft. They were good at that.
2
9/29/2021 11:16am
Primoz wrote:
It was said the 27 inch Phoenix would snap a coil shock due to side loads. Supposedly that's better on the 29er. Don't have a concrete...
It was said the 27 inch Phoenix would snap a coil shock due to side loads. Supposedly that's better on the 29er. Don't have a concrete source for that sadly, I just remember it from somewhere.

Regarding solid mounting, there's Specialized's yoke extension regularly killing shocks too.
I snapped an old school demo shock shaft. They were good at that.
The old X-wing Spez enduro also put a lot of load on the shock, both sideways from flex and vertically in compression. A great bike for it’s time, but very flexy by today’s standards
Noeserd
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9/29/2021 11:56am
The old X-wing Spez enduro also put a lot of load on the shock, both sideways from flex and vertically in compression. A great bike for...
The old X-wing Spez enduro also put a lot of load on the shock, both sideways from flex and vertically in compression. A great bike for it’s time, but very flexy by today’s standards
Sold one 2 months ago, sideloading issue was really noticable with my weight

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