If you look at the angle of the "Devinci leaked prototype" by Tonka truck, as mentioned, it seams there is no iddler, but the angle of the chain stay just does'nt match the angle of the CS on the photo of WR1. And there was a mention on PB (Or NSMB?) of Devinci asking to remove the pictures. So I think we are looking at 2 frames from 2 different brands.
As far as the linkage is concerned, it could also be a single pivot with single unit swing arm, similar to Evil. If they can find some way to have a nice leverage curve "À la Evil", that would be rad!
What if Devinci is onshoring their carbon frame manufacturing, and contracting with WR1 as their supplier?
Given current price inelasticity of high end mtb, it would...
What if Devinci is onshoring their carbon frame manufacturing, and contracting with WR1 as their supplier?
Given current price inelasticity of high end mtb, it would probably be a pretty compelling biz case even if prices increase 30%.
I would pay 30% more for a made in NA frame that holds a large water bottle inside the front triangle.
Sounds cool but Devinci would need far more frames than what WR1 could make
This is looking more and more like the one that TonkaTruck (I think) spotted on the back of a vehicle in a parking lot, no?
If I'm thinking of the same one, that was a Devinci prototype with a Split Pivot at the rear axle (and a high pivot/idler); this one looks like a regular single pivot with a linkage or possibly a dual short-link type.
The 2014 Sanction was a bruiser of a bike and was one of the first true mini-DH rigs of the EWS. Everyone else essentially had all-mountain (remember those?) bikes or long-travel trail bikes which would be great on pedal-y stages and transfers but would be seriously outgunned in places like Finale Ligure.
It was also surprisingly light for an aluminum frame at just over 7 lbs for a medium (under 7 lbs for size small), which would actually be lighter than many carbon enduro frames today.
It didn't pedal well but the remote lockout took care of that, which GT inexplicably removed after 2015.
I wonder how much input Dan Atherton and a teenage Martin Maes had on its design.
The 2014 Sanction was a bruiser of a bike and was one of the first true mini-DH rigs of the EWS. Everyone else essentially had all-mountain...
The 2014 Sanction was a bruiser of a bike and was one of the first true mini-DH rigs of the EWS. Everyone else essentially had all-mountain (remember those?) bikes or long-travel trail bikes which would be great on pedal-y stages and transfers but would be seriously outgunned in places like Finale Ligure.
It was also surprisingly light for an aluminum frame at just over 7 lbs for a medium (under 7 lbs for size small), which would actually be lighter than many carbon enduro frames today.
It didn't pedal well but the remote lockout took care of that, which GT inexplicably removed after 2015.
I wonder how much input Dan Atherton and a teenage Martin Maes had on its design.
This looks incredibly similar to the new unannounced Jekyll that Ropey has been riding. High pivot Horst link idler.
Whats the point of Cannondale and GT being separate brands anymore? Seems to be it would make more sense for Cannondale to pretty much only have road & XC bikes, and for GT to only have AM, Enduro, and DH bikes. Maybe split duty on commuter/recreation bikes.
Not so much
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/04/15/10727/s1200_s780_Screenshot_2021_01_11_09_13_24_44.jpg[/img]
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Not so much
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The difference is the position of the horizontal rocker. Both are high pivot with idlers. Both are horst link. I bet both have very, very similar geometry. I guess we will find out for sure soon when they are released.
The difference is the position of the horizontal rocker. Both are high pivot with idlers. Both are horst link. I bet both have very, very similar...
The difference is the position of the horizontal rocker. Both are high pivot with idlers. Both are horst link. I bet both have very, very similar geometry. I guess we will find out for sure soon when they are released.
Nope, not a horst link. Single pivot. If it was a horst link, it would have had the linkage on the seat stays. Point with horst link is to modify the wheel path. Look at the kavenz vhp. That is a proper high pivot horst link.
The difference is the position of the horizontal rocker. Both are high pivot with idlers. Both are horst link. I bet both have very, very similar...
The difference is the position of the horizontal rocker. Both are high pivot with idlers. Both are horst link. I bet both have very, very similar geometry. I guess we will find out for sure soon when they are released.
Nope, not a horst link. Single pivot. If it was a horst link, it would have had the linkage on the seat stays. Point with horst...
Nope, not a horst link. Single pivot. If it was a horst link, it would have had the linkage on the seat stays. Point with horst link is to modify the wheel path. Look at the kavenz vhp. That is a proper high pivot horst link.
Which one is single pivot? Cannondale has started using a chainstay mounted pivot as of the habit and is clearly pictured above with the Jekyll, as has GT when they came back with there LTS platform
Just came across this bike check of Andreu‘ Furious. Did you see that idler pulley?
Quote from Commencal: „The use of a jockey wheel on Andreu's FURIOUS is a system under development and is a system in line with the work carried out on our SUPREME DH, to better manage the chain effect. It’s not currently the plan to replicate this system on the production FURIOUS.“
@baronKanon a seatstay pivot is, mostly, a sign of a single pivot design. This does not hold true for the Norco prototype (the layout is flipped) and that design uses the top pivot as the 'main' pivot. With standard Horst links, the lower pivot is the 'main' pivot, thus it needs a chainstay pivot. Both the GT and the Cannondale use this type of linkage.
The other way around is a single pivot, where you have seatstay pivots on classic bikes (Kona for example) or on the chainstay for a high pivot bike - Zerode DH bike.
A horst link is a virtual pivot point and requires at least three links to mount the wheel to the front triangle. With a single pivot a single link is enough to do that.
Just came across this bike check of Andreu‘ Furious. Did you see that idler pulley?
Quote from Commencal: „The use of a jockey wheel on Andreu's...
Just came across this bike check of Andreu‘ Furious. Did you see that idler pulley?
Quote from Commencal: „The use of a jockey wheel on Andreu's FURIOUS is a system under development and is a system in line with the work carried out on our SUPREME DH, to better manage the chain effect. It’s not currently the plan to replicate this system on the production FURIOUS.“
Nope, not a horst link. Single pivot. If it was a horst link, it would have had the linkage on the seat stays. Point with horst...
Nope, not a horst link. Single pivot. If it was a horst link, it would have had the linkage on the seat stays. Point with horst link is to modify the wheel path. Look at the kavenz vhp. That is a proper high pivot horst link.
Guys.... should we tell him ?
Might want to check that Kavenz pivot there sir...
Going full circle :D
@baronKanon a seatstay pivot is, mostly, a sign of a single pivot design. This does not hold true for the Norco prototype...
Going full circle :D
@baronKanon a seatstay pivot is, mostly, a sign of a single pivot design. This does not hold true for the Norco prototype (the layout is flipped) and that design uses the top pivot as the 'main' pivot. With standard Horst links, the lower pivot is the 'main' pivot, thus it needs a chainstay pivot. Both the GT and the Cannondale use this type of linkage.
The other way around is a single pivot, where you have seatstay pivots on classic bikes (Kona for example) or on the chainstay for a high pivot bike - Zerode DH bike.
A horst link is a virtual pivot point and requires at least three links to mount the wheel to the front triangle. With a single pivot a single link is enough to do that.
Yeah, looking closely, you are right. Need to zoom in on the pix next time.
The difference is the position of the horizontal rocker. Both are high pivot with idlers. Both are horst link. I bet both have very, very similar...
The difference is the position of the horizontal rocker. Both are high pivot with idlers. Both are horst link. I bet both have very, very similar geometry. I guess we will find out for sure soon when they are released.
I see what you’re saying but isn’t that more about them just being on trend and doing what customers are asking for? In terms of design language I see a pretty clear lineage from the fury and the cannondale DH project. Both have quite distinct flavours.
Hi res picture of Andreu's bike. That idler has to move through the stroke right? i don't see much of a problem even if that is patented. Commencal want to sell the best DH bike of them all, so I bet they would pay for a license if it means their bike performs better. We'll see I guess.
Ah, that's Andreu's bike? Could it be there just for chain tensioning when doing rad runs? It would be under a lot of stress when pedalling at higher powers.
I recently wrote about a sustainability/manufacturing technical innovation that SRAM have worked out. It appears as though they've developed an in-house carbon recycling process for the carbon they would normally just trash. They take their machined carbon scrap, which is generally useless without a recycling process, and can create molding compounds (think car bumpers) using their new process. The very interesting part is they can adjust the strength of the molding compound they're creating by adjusting the chemicals (type, quantity, etc.). So, they can make molding compounds that are stiffer or more flexible using the same recycling process.
This is important to this industry as a whole. It's a long article with no cool pictures, so I just summed it up in like 4 sentences so you don't actually need to click on the link. But, I'm pretty stoked to see SRAM taking it upon themselves to try to reduce their carbon waste.
I wonder what's going on with that Blackbox shock; with the skinnier can and different compression compared to the current SD it looks a bit like a Float X CTD
As far as the linkage is concerned, it could also be a single pivot with single unit swing arm, similar to Evil. If they can find some way to have a nice leverage curve "À la Evil", that would be rad!
Given current price inelasticity of high end mtb, it would probably be a pretty compelling biz case even if prices increase 30%.
I would pay 30% more for a made in NA frame that holds a large water bottle inside the front triangle.
Link to the IG vid :
https://www.instagram.com/p/CM--7ZRFfOi/
The 2014 Sanction was a bruiser of a bike and was one of the first true mini-DH rigs of the EWS. Everyone else essentially had all-mountain (remember those?) bikes or long-travel trail bikes which would be great on pedal-y stages and transfers but would be seriously outgunned in places like Finale Ligure.
It was also surprisingly light for an aluminum frame at just over 7 lbs for a medium (under 7 lbs for size small), which would actually be lighter than many carbon enduro frames today.
It didn't pedal well but the remote lockout took care of that, which GT inexplicably removed after 2015.
I wonder how much input Dan Atherton and a teenage Martin Maes had on its design.
Sources: https://nsmb.com/articles/2015-gt-sanction-165mm-enduro-platform/, https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/gt-sanction-foxhunt-bike-check-dan-atherton-gee, https://enduro-mtb.com/en/are-pro-setups-for-everyone-riding-dan-athertons-gt-sanction/
(Turning this 2020 tech thread into a 2015 tech thread. Whoops. As you were.)
While they’re at it lets get the distortion back. 125/150mm 64 degree trail smasher with a DPX2 and a 36
Whats the point of Cannondale and GT being separate brands anymore? Seems to be it would make more sense for Cannondale to pretty much only have road & XC bikes, and for GT to only have AM, Enduro, and DH bikes. Maybe split duty on commuter/recreation bikes.
.
Quote from Commencal: „The use of a jockey wheel on Andreu's FURIOUS is a system under development and is a system in line with the work carried out on our SUPREME DH, to better manage the chain effect. It’s not currently the plan to replicate this system on the production FURIOUS.“
https://www.commencal-store.co.uk/Mobile/MBCPPlayer.asp?ID=2055378
@baronKanon a seatstay pivot is, mostly, a sign of a single pivot design. This does not hold true for the Norco prototype (the layout is flipped) and that design uses the top pivot as the 'main' pivot. With standard Horst links, the lower pivot is the 'main' pivot, thus it needs a chainstay pivot. Both the GT and the Cannondale use this type of linkage.
The other way around is a single pivot, where you have seatstay pivots on classic bikes (Kona for example) or on the chainstay for a high pivot bike - Zerode DH bike.
A horst link is a virtual pivot point and requires at least three links to mount the wheel to the front triangle. With a single pivot a single link is enough to do that.
Gotta love broken web sites and their links...
Might want to check that Kavenz pivot there sir...
HL Pivots are located on the CS.
edit: i found the solution, on the bottom of the page there is a "head to website" option
baronKanon yeah, it's a normal high-ish horst link...
This is important to this industry as a whole. It's a long article with no cool pictures, so I just summed it up in like 4 sentences so you don't actually need to click on the link. But, I'm pretty stoked to see SRAM taking it upon themselves to try to reduce their carbon waste.
https://wheelbased.com/2021/03/28/recycled-fiber-material-and-method-by-sram/
Also, shoutout to @primoz for that fork post. Very dope.
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