Knolly/Specialized are using a Watt 2. The new Commencal DH is interesting because it is one of the few where the wheel is attached to links 5/6 rather than 2/3/4. In the end doesn't really make a big difference but it can give you some nice separation of antisquat properties and a little bit more control over axle path. .
If I understand correctly you're aiming at the Watt linkage being a 4+2?
To cover what Intense is developing (or the Demo/Enduro/Sender) you need another anchor...
If I understand correctly you're aiming at the Watt linkage being a 4+2?
To cover what Intense is developing (or the Demo/Enduro/Sender) you need another anchor point on the ground (as the scissor link is connected to the frame too) and have a linkage connected to that (and the shock to it as well). The three in your graphic are what would be considered a proper 6-bar in my opinion.
Like I said, in my opinion it's not what the shock 'sees', it's what defines the wheel path.
Who is making these rules?
A linkage driven single pivot like a Kona is a 4 bar linkage. This system is a 6 bar linkage.
Why would we be just counting the links between the wheel and the frame instead of the whole system?
The theory behind this linkage is pretty similar to what you have deemed to be a "proper" 6 bar linkage anyway - more opportunity to tune/decouple wheel path and shock progression.
The 4 bars between the frame and wheel dictate the wheel path and the other 2 allow further tuning of progression. Why would you consider it to be less deserving of the 6 bar name? It's a different kind of 6 bar linkage than say, a DW6, but it is still one.
There's no international MTB Nomenclature Committee enforcing these rules (if there was I wouldn't be here complaining about "loam" all the time), but "the rules" that Primoz is talking about have been commonly accepted suspension terms in the industry for the last 20 years, at least. Kona even refers to their suspension design as a "Faux Bar" linkage, meaning they know it's not a "real" four bar, it's a linkage-driven single pivot. If you're using a definition where a Kona is a four bar, then an Evil Following, Transition TR500, and Orange Switch 7 are all four bar bikes, too.
If I understand correctly you're aiming at the Watt linkage being a 4+2?
To cover what Intense is developing (or the Demo/Enduro/Sender) you need another anchor...
If I understand correctly you're aiming at the Watt linkage being a 4+2?
To cover what Intense is developing (or the Demo/Enduro/Sender) you need another anchor point on the ground (as the scissor link is connected to the frame too) and have a linkage connected to that (and the shock to it as well). The three in your graphic are what would be considered a proper 6-bar in my opinion.
Like I said, in my opinion it's not what the shock 'sees', it's what defines the wheel path.
Who is making these rules?
A linkage driven single pivot like a Kona is a 4 bar linkage. This system is a 6 bar linkage.
Why...
Who is making these rules?
A linkage driven single pivot like a Kona is a 4 bar linkage. This system is a 6 bar linkage.
Why would we be just counting the links between the wheel and the frame instead of the whole system?
The theory behind this linkage is pretty similar to what you have deemed to be a "proper" 6 bar linkage anyway - more opportunity to tune/decouple wheel path and shock progression.
The 4 bars between the frame and wheel dictate the wheel path and the other 2 allow further tuning of progression. Why would you consider it to be less deserving of the 6 bar name? It's a different kind of 6 bar linkage than say, a DW6, but it is still one.
Hell, even my night out this weekend was a four bar by this loose of a definition!
There's no international MTB Nomenclature Committee enforcing these rules (if there was I wouldn't be here complaining about "loam" all the time), but "the rules" that...
There's no international MTB Nomenclature Committee enforcing these rules (if there was I wouldn't be here complaining about "loam" all the time), but "the rules" that Primoz is talking about have been commonly accepted suspension terms in the industry for the last 20 years, at least. Kona even refers to their suspension design as a "Faux Bar" linkage, meaning they know it's not a "real" four bar, it's a linkage-driven single pivot. If you're using a definition where a Kona is a four bar, then an Evil Following, Transition TR500, and Orange Switch 7 are all four bar bikes, too.
“Union Forum Internationale, (UFI), a branch of the holy UCI. An organisation which values the correctness of all statements on forums as much as their own integrity.
After each forum has entered their bid (and wire transfer) to be allowed to hold a discussion, and forum members have paid their exorbitant UFI-licence fee’s, the UFI will closely monitor all tech related statement on correctness.
In line with the UFI-rule book appendix 3.5.7, appropriate measures will be taken where deemed necessary by a senior aged delegate who hasn’t touched a bike since he got his drivers license.”
I'm a mechanical engineer and even I'm on the verge of yelling "NERDS!" at you all. But seriously can it just be called a linkage driven horst, (or linkage driven four bar) to differentiate it from a conventional horst?
I love this community.
Now, RELEASE THE TECH RUMORS!
Rulezman will show us the BEST BIKE EVER later tonight. It will probably be very large, have a double crown, coil shock, light wheels, skinny tires, no inserts, short stem and be THE BEST BIKE OR NOTHING. Currently Banshee is the best bike, so it may be downgraded to shit after the new launch
Rulezman will show us the BEST BIKE EVER later tonight. It will probably be very large, have a double crown, coil shock, light wheels, skinny tires...
Rulezman will show us the BEST BIKE EVER later tonight. It will probably be very large, have a double crown, coil shock, light wheels, skinny tires, no inserts, short stem and be THE BEST BIKE OR NOTHING. Currently Banshee is the best bike, so it may be downgraded to shit after the new launch
He is still following banshee so maaybe a new model release?
Rulezman will show us the BEST BIKE EVER later tonight. It will probably be very large, have a double crown, coil shock, light wheels, skinny tires...
Rulezman will show us the BEST BIKE EVER later tonight. It will probably be very large, have a double crown, coil shock, light wheels, skinny tires, no inserts, short stem and be THE BEST BIKE OR NOTHING. Currently Banshee is the best bike, so it may be downgraded to shit after the new launch
For someone who claims the bike industry is nothing but hype and B.S. he sure does a whole lot of hype and over-the-top B.S. hyperbole
I'm a mechanical engineer and even I'm on the verge of yelling "NERDS!" at you all. But seriously can it just be called a linkage driven...
I'm a mechanical engineer and even I'm on the verge of yelling "NERDS!" at you all. But seriously can it just be called a linkage driven horst, (or linkage driven four bar) to differentiate it from a conventional horst?
What you are describing is exactly what some here define as "not a 6 bar" so you seem to agree and so do I. I don't believe Knolly ever called their system a 6bar and they were very early adopters of the linkage driven Horst, maybe even the first ?
Now for all those moaning and calling some nerds, properly naming and defining things allows for much more fluid and unambiguous discussions down the line. I don't see how this is an issue. Most people that know just a smidge about suspension know the difference between a Horst/4bar and a faux bar for instance, no reason why a faux 6bar and a 6bar can't be defined so we can describe new bikes easily latter.
The new Yeti SB160 is going to be released the next couple of days.
The SB160 is supposed to fit the roll of full-on enduro race...
The new Yeti SB160 is going to be released the next couple of days.
The SB160 is supposed to fit the roll of full-on enduro race bike and as such it's 29er only. It's as the name suggests 160 mm of travel in the rear, paired to 170mm forks.
There will be 5 frame sizes (S to XXL).
Reach grows across the board by 5mm compared to to the SB150, plus the addition of an XXL size. Reach ranges from 435 to 525 mm, so there's now finally a size for people over 6'.
Head tube angle and effective seat tube angle are both on the conservative side of things, with the former sitting at 64° and the latter at 77°.
The rear center grows incrementally with each frame size, but unfortunately the rear center is quite short still, ranging between 437 and 445 mm.
Interestingly, the frame features very little BB drop, with the BB sitting at a tall 353 mm.
Although none of the above will probably matter as the prices, as you can probably imagine, are completely and utterly off the charts and therefor I'd be very surprised if anyone at all actually buys this bike. The prices I've seen actually make me wonder if the people at Yeti have finally lost their marbles.
Looks like the embargo lifts some time in the first half of November.
Have you heard anymore on time frame? I heard from a local shop it could be announced next week, but they weren't for sure or maybe they just didn't want to say.
The new Yeti SB160 is going to be released the next couple of days.
The SB160 is supposed to fit the roll of full-on enduro race...
The new Yeti SB160 is going to be released the next couple of days.
The SB160 is supposed to fit the roll of full-on enduro race bike and as such it's 29er only. It's as the name suggests 160 mm of travel in the rear, paired to 170mm forks.
There will be 5 frame sizes (S to XXL).
Reach grows across the board by 5mm compared to to the SB150, plus the addition of an XXL size. Reach ranges from 435 to 525 mm, so there's now finally a size for people over 6'.
Head tube angle and effective seat tube angle are both on the conservative side of things, with the former sitting at 64° and the latter at 77°.
The rear center grows incrementally with each frame size, but unfortunately the rear center is quite short still, ranging between 437 and 445 mm.
Interestingly, the frame features very little BB drop, with the BB sitting at a tall 353 mm.
Although none of the above will probably matter as the prices, as you can probably imagine, are completely and utterly off the charts and therefor I'd be very surprised if anyone at all actually buys this bike. The prices I've seen actually make me wonder if the people at Yeti have finally lost their marbles.
Have you heard anymore on time frame? I heard from a local shop it could be announced next week, but they weren't for sure or maybe...
Have you heard anymore on time frame? I heard from a local shop it could be announced next week, but they weren't for sure or maybe they just didn't want to say.
I live near Yeti and saw a few guys on the trail last week, all I was able to get out of them was "in a few weeks"
New Scott Ransom dropping?
Dangerholm has a post showing a bike which seems to be in the ~160mm travel range but also rather similar to a spark (headtube area):
announced for tomorrow
The front part then looks rather similar to this picture from german BIKE magazine:
The caption mentions the "most exciting new products from autumn"...
Note the belly at the bottom bracket and the known horst-link setup (not going the bold route)
New Scott Ransom dropping?
Dangerholm has a post showing a bike which seems to be in the ~160mm travel range but also rather similar to a...
New Scott Ransom dropping?
Dangerholm has a post showing a bike which seems to be in the ~160mm travel range but also rather similar to a spark (headtube area):
announced for tomorrow
The front part then looks rather similar to this picture from german BIKE magazine:
The caption mentions the "most exciting new products from autumn"...
Note the belly at the bottom bracket and the known horst-link setup (not going the bold route)
what do you guys think?
As numerous people have mentioned in this thread, nobody will buy it because of the headset routed cables.
New Scott Ransom dropping?
Dangerholm has a post showing a bike which seems to be in the ~160mm travel range but also rather similar to a...
New Scott Ransom dropping?
Dangerholm has a post showing a bike which seems to be in the ~160mm travel range but also rather similar to a spark (headtube area):
announced for tomorrow
The front part then looks rather similar to this picture from german BIKE magazine:
The caption mentions the "most exciting new products from autumn"...
Note the belly at the bottom bracket and the known horst-link setup (not going the bold route)
As numerous people have mentioned in this thread, nobody will buy it because of the headset routed cables.
Can’t tell if you are being sarcastic or not? Sadly for most of us on this forum I suspect that is not likely to be the case - hopefully the world proves me wrong on this one…
New Scott Ransom dropping?
Dangerholm has a post showing a bike which seems to be in the ~160mm travel range but also rather similar to a...
New Scott Ransom dropping?
Dangerholm has a post showing a bike which seems to be in the ~160mm travel range but also rather similar to a spark (headtube area):
announced for tomorrow
The front part then looks rather similar to this picture from german BIKE magazine:
The caption mentions the "most exciting new products from autumn"...
Note the belly at the bottom bracket and the known horst-link setup (not going the bold route)
what do you guys think?
Rather the Genius. These Fox don't look bigger than 34s and has the Twinlock.
Sharp looking bike for sure ! Even if I'm not a big fan of the hidden shock design. And the headset cable routing... 😤
New Scott Ransom dropping?
Dangerholm has a post showing a bike which seems to be in the ~160mm travel range but also rather similar to a...
New Scott Ransom dropping?
Dangerholm has a post showing a bike which seems to be in the ~160mm travel range but also rather similar to a spark (headtube area):
announced for tomorrow
The front part then looks rather similar to this picture from german BIKE magazine:
The caption mentions the "most exciting new products from autumn"...
Note the belly at the bottom bracket and the known horst-link setup (not going the bold route)
what do you guys think?
It's the new Scott Genius - 150mm trail/all mountain bike. It'll be revealed tomorrow (Nov. 3rd).
1) The current Genius uses a Fox 36 because the 34 is no longer available in 150 mm. Even the 34 that Scott used on the Genius before the change was a beefed up version using the e-bike CSU. So either it isn't a 34, or it isn't 150+ mm travel. Edit: I've read some chatter of a Spark LT, which might have a 34.
2) Twinloc is great.
3) Dangerholm should be looking for new shorts not a new bike.
Perhaps a bad reference image.
Knolly/Specialized are using a Watt 2. The new Commencal DH is interesting because it is one of the few where the wheel is attached to links 5/6 rather than 2/3/4. In the end doesn't really make a big difference but it can give you some nice separation of antisquat properties and a little bit more control over axle path. .
Who is making these rules?
A linkage driven single pivot like a Kona is a 4 bar linkage. This system is a 6 bar linkage.
Why would we be just counting the links between the wheel and the frame instead of the whole system?
The theory behind this linkage is pretty similar to what you have deemed to be a "proper" 6 bar linkage anyway - more opportunity to tune/decouple wheel path and shock progression.
The 4 bars between the frame and wheel dictate the wheel path and the other 2 allow further tuning of progression. Why would you consider it to be less deserving of the 6 bar name? It's a different kind of 6 bar linkage than say, a DW6, but it is still one.
There's no international MTB Nomenclature Committee enforcing these rules (if there was I wouldn't be here complaining about "loam" all the time), but "the rules" that Primoz is talking about have been commonly accepted suspension terms in the industry for the last 20 years, at least. Kona even refers to their suspension design as a "Faux Bar" linkage, meaning they know it's not a "real" four bar, it's a linkage-driven single pivot. If you're using a definition where a Kona is a four bar, then an Evil Following, Transition TR500, and Orange Switch 7 are all four bar bikes, too.
Hell, even my night out this weekend was a four bar by this loose of a definition!
“Union Forum Internationale, (UFI), a branch of the holy UCI. An organisation which values the correctness of all statements on forums as much as their own integrity.
After each forum has entered their bid (and wire transfer) to be allowed to hold a discussion, and forum members have paid their exorbitant UFI-licence fee’s, the UFI will closely monitor all tech related statement on correctness.
In line with the UFI-rule book appendix 3.5.7, appropriate measures will be taken where deemed necessary by a senior aged delegate who hasn’t touched a bike since he got his drivers license.”
I’ll let myself out, slow start today.
I'm a mechanical engineer and even I'm on the verge of yelling "NERDS!" at you all. But seriously can it just be called a linkage driven horst, (or linkage driven four bar) to differentiate it from a conventional horst?
Rulezman will show us the BEST BIKE EVER later tonight. It will probably be very large, have a double crown, coil shock, light wheels, skinny tires, no inserts, short stem and be THE BEST BIKE OR NOTHING. Currently Banshee is the best bike, so it may be downgraded to shit after the new launch
Any rumors on the new optic and sight supposedly being worked on? They were last released about this time, 3 years ago.
Late 2024 refresh last I heard.
He is still following banshee so maaybe a new model release?
For someone who claims the bike industry is nothing but hype and B.S. he sure does a whole lot of hype and over-the-top B.S. hyperbole
it's just a gold banshee legend with the usual Manitous. Aston will still crack it anyway
What you are describing is exactly what some here define as "not a 6 bar" so you seem to agree and so do I. I don't believe Knolly ever called their system a 6bar and they were very early adopters of the linkage driven Horst, maybe even the first ?
Now for all those moaning and calling some nerds, properly naming and defining things allows for much more fluid and unambiguous discussions down the line. I don't see how this is an issue. Most people that know just a smidge about suspension know the difference between a Horst/4bar and a faux bar for instance, no reason why a faux 6bar and a 6bar can't be defined so we can describe new bikes easily latter.
Is @KeithBanshee still around here to throw few bones?
Have you heard anymore on time frame? I heard from a local shop it could be announced next week, but they weren't for sure or maybe they just didn't want to say.
I live near Yeti and saw a few guys on the trail last week, all I was able to get out of them was "in a few weeks"
New Scott Ransom dropping?
Dangerholm has a post showing a bike which seems to be in the ~160mm travel range but also rather similar to a spark (headtube area):
announced for tomorrow
The front part then looks rather similar to this picture from german BIKE magazine:
The caption mentions the "most exciting new products from autumn"...
Note the belly at the bottom bracket and the known horst-link setup (not going the bold route)
what do you guys think?
As numerous people have mentioned in this thread, nobody will buy it because of the headset routed cables.
True..
And just to be really sure they added their annoying twinlock remote stuff and a hidden shock
Can’t tell if you are being sarcastic or not? Sadly for most of us on this forum I suspect that is not likely to be the case - hopefully the world proves me wrong on this one…
Rather the Genius. These Fox don't look bigger than 34s and has the Twinlock.
Sharp looking bike for sure ! Even if I'm not a big fan of the hidden shock design. And the headset cable routing... 😤
Personally I don't like that headtube / stem area. Way too bulky
It's the new Scott Genius - 150mm trail/all mountain bike. It'll be revealed tomorrow (Nov. 3rd).
Just a few notes/opinions:
1) The current Genius uses a Fox 36 because the 34 is no longer available in 150 mm. Even the 34 that Scott used on the Genius before the change was a beefed up version using the e-bike CSU. So either it isn't a 34, or it isn't 150+ mm travel. Edit: I've read some chatter of a Spark LT, which might have a 34.
2) Twinloc is great.
3) Dangerholm should be looking for new shorts not a new bike.
4) It's already 3/11 here, hurry up Scott.
LOL - Was looking at the new Genius/ransom but if it has headset routing, that'll be a solid no.
I already know a bunch of specs but cant say any details and was never told it had headset routing.
The frame is not that far from having all the room for a Fazua (or similar) motor...
Half the room for a possible e-motor is taken by the hidden shock…
Possibly a proprietary stem and bar with that inline headset? Will turn off a lot of people but potentially kind of cool.
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