Last week Fox did a great job servicing my forks and rear shock...they only forgot to reinstall a few things (not to mention ship me a another shock that was not mine)
The new Yeti SB160 is going to be released the next couple of days.
The SB160 is supposed to fit the roll of full-on enduro race...
The new Yeti SB160 is going to be released the next couple of days.
The SB160 is supposed to fit the roll of full-on enduro race bike and as such it's 29er only. It's as the name suggests 160 mm of travel in the rear, paired to 170mm forks.
There will be 5 frame sizes (S to XXL).
Reach grows across the board by 5mm compared to to the SB150, plus the addition of an XXL size. Reach ranges from 435 to 525 mm, so there's now finally a size for people over 6'.
Head tube angle and effective seat tube angle are both on the conservative side of things, with the former sitting at 64° and the latter at 77°.
The rear center grows incrementally with each frame size, but unfortunately the rear center is quite short still, ranging between 437 and 445 mm.
Interestingly, the frame features very little BB drop, with the BB sitting at a tall 353 mm.
Although none of the above will probably matter as the prices, as you can probably imagine, are completely and utterly off the charts and therefor I'd be very surprised if anyone at all actually buys this bike. The prices I've seen actually make me wonder if the people at Yeti have finally lost their marbles.
Addendum Nr. 2:
Looks like the embargo lifts some time in the first half of November.
Seems like surprisingly few people actually know about what's going on with the the X2 problem, so I took some pics today of the new design next to the current (old?) design, both taken off the same bikes. (new eyelet body on the left)
the old eyelet measured ~1.7mm thick at the threads, new one measures ~4.4mm. the new design doesn't extend any further down the damper body than the old design, so I'm pretty hesitant this redesign will actually help the current problem.
other details because I already had them out; the bleed port has moved, the inside of the trunnion threads seem to be machined slightly differently, and I measured a 13g weight increase with the new design.
also should mention that the packing slip shows that the only new item installed was the eyelet, nothing else appears to have been redesigned. Also looks like they replaced the damper shaft, so maybe the loctite issue is still going on, who knows
Seems like surprisingly few people actually know about what's going on with the the X2 problem, so I took some pics today of the new design...
Seems like surprisingly few people actually know about what's going on with the the X2 problem, so I took some pics today of the new design next to the current (old?) design, both taken off the same bikes. (new eyelet body on the left)
the old eyelet measured ~1.7mm thick at the threads, new one measures ~4.4mm. the new design doesn't extend any further down the damper body than the old design, so I'm pretty hesitant this redesign will actually help the current problem.
other details because I already had them out; the bleed port has moved, the inside of the trunnion threads seem to be machined slightly differently, and I measured a 13g weight increase with the new design.
Unfortunately the outer body is still cracking right below with the new trunnion mount.
Detailed pics of the new Bell DH helmet, with a sick paintjob for William Robert. Now let's see if they ever release it since we've been seeing it since early '22: https://www.instagram.com/p/Cj8orT5t6Q3/?hl=en
Unfortunately the outer body is still cracking right below with the new trunnion mount.
Unfortunately the outer body is still cracking right below with the new trunnion mount.
Send it to Fox! It is a gamble, will then fix it and send your shock back, will they send you some other persons wrong size shock and/or will they install all of its parts....only one way to find out.
Almost looks like the threads were cut a little too deep.. Or needs a little more wall thickness...
Or the industry needs a rethink of how shocks get mounted... Trunnion frames have been a horror story on the shocks. Direct mounted yokes on Specialized bikes killed Monarch shocks (90° eyelet mounted yokes improve things). There has been word in this topic there's a reason a lot of Santa Cruz bikes come with RS shocks as Fox shocks supposedly can't handle the loads on them. Apparently the 27,5" Phoenix couldn't be run with a coil shock due to the frame flexing that much, requiring the support from an air shock to function. Etc.
Either the shocks will need to be designed to handle the stresses or the mounting strategy changed to lessen the loads.
Or the industry needs a rethink of how shocks get mounted... Trunnion frames have been a horror story on the shocks. Direct mounted yokes on Specialized...
Or the industry needs a rethink of how shocks get mounted... Trunnion frames have been a horror story on the shocks. Direct mounted yokes on Specialized bikes killed Monarch shocks (90° eyelet mounted yokes improve things). There has been word in this topic there's a reason a lot of Santa Cruz bikes come with RS shocks as Fox shocks supposedly can't handle the loads on them. Apparently the 27,5" Phoenix couldn't be run with a coil shock due to the frame flexing that much, requiring the support from an air shock to function. Etc.
Either the shocks will need to be designed to handle the stresses or the mounting strategy changed to lessen the loads.
bring back snowmobile shocks to MTB! (but even this shaft looks like it'd get stressed out)
@Noeserd I think Pole actually does a good job of mounting the shocks on the Stamina (not sure how it's done on the Voima and the non-electric version of the Voima though).
EDIT: Voima has it done the same way the Stamina did, the shock being mounted at 90° to what it normally is with 90° yokes on both sides. The 2021 Range VLT did this at the bottom of the shock too, but has a normal mount at the top (with bearings in the rocker arm, so less than ideal in that regard).
For what it's worth I've been running a 230x65 mm Super Deluxe Ultimate for about two years now on my 150 mm bike (it was replaced after a year and a half, the original one way clicking, otherwise I'd likely be on that one still) and the 200h service I did 3 weeks ago was non eventful. Opening the bleed screw caused just a few drops of oil to flow to the top of the IFP in the reservoir.
Servicing a Super Deluxe from a Hightower, even within the specified timeframe, ALWAYS causes fizzy oil to flow past the bleed screw upon opening it and I have seen a Megatower with a scratch in the damper shaft. So there is something putting quite a bit of load into these shocks in Santa Cruzes. Even though the design looks fairly stout and shouldn't cause major issues, at least not compared to the design of my frame...
So, basically the industry forgot that letting the shock be a stressed member of the chassis is not good...
Yes. And it gets worse with the rigid mounting of the trunnion. I heard Rå bikes have made sure there are no sideloads on their link, even if it is a trunnion.
Seems like surprisingly few people actually know about what's going on with the the X2 problem, so I took some pics today of the new design...
Seems like surprisingly few people actually know about what's going on with the the X2 problem, so I took some pics today of the new design next to the current (old?) design, both taken off the same bikes. (new eyelet body on the left)
the old eyelet measured ~1.7mm thick at the threads, new one measures ~4.4mm. the new design doesn't extend any further down the damper body than the old design, so I'm pretty hesitant this redesign will actually help the current problem.
other details because I already had them out; the bleed port has moved, the inside of the trunnion threads seem to be machined slightly differently, and I measured a 13g weight increase with the new design.
Or the industry needs a rethink of how shocks get mounted... Trunnion frames have been a horror story on the shocks. Direct mounted yokes on Specialized...
Or the industry needs a rethink of how shocks get mounted... Trunnion frames have been a horror story on the shocks. Direct mounted yokes on Specialized bikes killed Monarch shocks (90° eyelet mounted yokes improve things). There has been word in this topic there's a reason a lot of Santa Cruz bikes come with RS shocks as Fox shocks supposedly can't handle the loads on them. Apparently the 27,5" Phoenix couldn't be run with a coil shock due to the frame flexing that much, requiring the support from an air shock to function. Etc.
Either the shocks will need to be designed to handle the stresses or the mounting strategy changed to lessen the loads.
who is to blame though, the shock manufacturers, or the bike manufacturers for using these designs in the first place with inherent issues from the get go. Sort of a chicken and the egg scenario.
"Who is to blame though, the shock manufacturers, or the bike manufacturers?" Yes.
Trunnion was a team effort by the "we want a lower standover height on our trail bike with a vertically-oriented shock" crowd and the "if we don't make it, [insert "Fox" if you're Rockshox or "Rockshox" if you're Fox] will" crowd. Before trunnion, there were other bad solutions to this problem. Pre-trunnion, there was a spate of trail and enduro bikes with vertically-oriented shocks that were too short in stroke and over-leveraged in the suspension design as a way to reduce overall shock length and thus lower the standover for the bike. Predictably, life was hard on those over-leveraged shocks and the underdamped shocks bikes didn't ride that well.
With trunnion, frame designers teamed up with suspension manufacturers to make a solution to eliminate so many of the design constraints for vertically-oriented shock on a trail bike. And indeed, it's the perfect solution when you're looking at it in autocad or solidworks or whatever software they use to design this stuff. But again, some problems cropped up in actual regular trail use. In another 100000 warranties I'm sure they'll figure it out.
"Who is to blame though, the shock manufacturers, or the bike manufacturers?" Yes.
Trunnion was a team effort by the "we want a lower standover height...
"Who is to blame though, the shock manufacturers, or the bike manufacturers?" Yes.
Trunnion was a team effort by the "we want a lower standover height on our trail bike with a vertically-oriented shock" crowd and the "if we don't make it, [insert "Fox" if you're Rockshox or "Rockshox" if you're Fox] will" crowd. Before trunnion, there were other bad solutions to this problem. Pre-trunnion, there was a spate of trail and enduro bikes with vertically-oriented shocks that were too short in stroke and over-leveraged in the suspension design as a way to reduce overall shock length and thus lower the standover for the bike. Predictably, life was hard on those over-leveraged shocks and the underdamped shocks bikes didn't ride that well.
With trunnion, frame designers teamed up with suspension manufacturers to make a solution to eliminate so many of the design constraints for vertically-oriented shock on a trail bike. And indeed, it's the perfect solution when you're looking at it in autocad or solidworks or whatever software they use to design this stuff. But again, some problems cropped up in actual regular trail use. In another 100000 warranties I'm sure they'll figure it out.
Trunion wouldn't be bad IF bikes were designed properly (stiff enough around the shock) AND were submitted to proper quality control (as basic as making sure top and bottom mounts are in line). Since neither of these happen in the bike industry, trunion shocks take shit loads of abuse that they are not designed for. I have 2 frames using trunion, my GF Liv Hail which is missaligned by 0.5mm and caused a lot of wear on a shock body before I found out and made offset bushings (frame was second hand). And my GT Force 29 which I found out is also missaligned by 1mm or so and for which they are really not too keen to offer waranty so far. If both those frames had mounts properly aligned no shock problems would have happened.
What brand of bikes & models is this happening to? Does Evil Bikes have this problem they run a Trunion mount on most of there product line I was a fan of Fox back in the 70’s but some of my(MX)riding buddies had problems with Fox Products and that was it for me I said never will I buy a Fox product & I’ve stuck to that there’s better Shox and forks out there. It’s on Fox to resolve this the World is watching stand behind your work & your product! Or if this is a Bike Brands design issue was the shock supplied as Original Equipment on a complete bike sale? Then it’s on both Companies & they both know it and there covering each other’s asses.
My transition bikes were terrible for frame alignment(2022 spire and 2022 sentinel).. the first sentinel frame i had creaked so bad when i took the shock out i couldnt get it back in unless i undid the main rocker bolt - the second frame knocked something wicked, that frame got a rock strike in the down tube and cracked the ALLOY.
spire was carbon and The shock didnt align very well and eventually it ripped the chainstay pivot away from the main frame.
All the issues The new Spectral has, the way the shock is mounted is very stiff, almost solid carbon and the shock felt super smooth.
I had a 2020 and 2022 firebird.. for whatever reason the new version IMO doesnt ride aswell and i went through a few shocks on it, So im curious what the draw is to the new bike.
Currently have a SJ EVO with a WRP link(and float x) and its been great(despite the WRP link making the overal yoke length longer.)
What brand of bikes & models is this happening to? Does Evil Bikes have this problem they run a Trunion mount on most of there product...
What brand of bikes & models is this happening to? Does Evil Bikes have this problem they run a Trunion mount on most of there product line I was a fan of Fox back in the 70’s but some of my(MX)riding buddies had problems with Fox Products and that was it for me I said never will I buy a Fox product & I’ve stuck to that there’s better Shox and forks out there. It’s on Fox to resolve this the World is watching stand behind your work & your product! Or if this is a Bike Brands design issue was the shock supplied as Original Equipment on a complete bike sale? Then it’s on both Companies & they both know it and there covering each other’s asses.
I cracked my trunnion shock on my Specialize Enduro. Not sure if it’s common for the bike as I haven’t read a big back lash about the Enduro shocks breaking, just the frames.
Mid 2010's was also CTD forks and shocks failing often. My shock was stuck in "D" right after one week. Got repaired, then failed again.
The Talas thing of my fork was working though.
Last week Fox did a great job servicing my forks and rear shock...they only forgot to reinstall a few things (not to mention ship me a another shock that was not mine)
This rear tire that DJ Brandt is running at Rampage caught my eye... Looks like Kenda's version of the Maxxis Dissector.
Looks like a Kenda Magic Mary to me, but I see how you are seeing a dissector in there too
Addendum Nr. 2:
Looks like the embargo lifts some time in the first half of November.
Seems like surprisingly few people actually know about what's going on with the the X2 problem, so I took some pics today of the new design next to the current (old?) design, both taken off the same bikes. (new eyelet body on the left)
the old eyelet measured ~1.7mm thick at the threads, new one measures ~4.4mm. the new design doesn't extend any further down the damper body than the old design, so I'm pretty hesitant this redesign will actually help the current problem.
other details because I already had them out; the bleed port has moved, the inside of the trunnion threads seem to be machined slightly differently, and I measured a 13g weight increase with the new design.
also should mention that the packing slip shows that the only new item installed was the eyelet, nothing else appears to have been redesigned. Also looks like they replaced the damper shaft, so maybe the loctite issue is still going on, who knows
Unfortunately the outer body is still cracking right below with the new trunnion mount.
Detailed pics of the new Bell DH helmet, with a sick paintjob for William Robert. Now let's see if they ever release it since we've been seeing it since early '22: https://www.instagram.com/p/Cj8orT5t6Q3/?hl=en
Send it to Fox! It is a gamble, will then fix it and send your shock back, will they send you some other persons wrong size shock and/or will they install all of its parts....only one way to find out.
Almost looks like the threads were cut a little too deep.. Or needs a little more wall thickness...
Ohhhh damn that's one sexy machine!
Also: 540mm Reach! HELL to the YES!
Or the industry needs a rethink of how shocks get mounted... Trunnion frames have been a horror story on the shocks. Direct mounted yokes on Specialized bikes killed Monarch shocks (90° eyelet mounted yokes improve things). There has been word in this topic there's a reason a lot of Santa Cruz bikes come with RS shocks as Fox shocks supposedly can't handle the loads on them. Apparently the 27,5" Phoenix couldn't be run with a coil shock due to the frame flexing that much, requiring the support from an air shock to function. Etc.
Either the shocks will need to be designed to handle the stresses or the mounting strategy changed to lessen the loads.
"Either the shocks will need to be designed to handle the stresses or the mounting strategy changed to lessen the loads."
It's a bit of both, more on the linkage designers side though
Looks like Hope HB 916
bring back snowmobile shocks to MTB! (but even this shaft looks like it'd get stressed out)
Talk about Knights of the old Republic...
Re Hope, good eye, spot on I think.
@Noeserd I think Pole actually does a good job of mounting the shocks on the Stamina (not sure how it's done on the Voima and the non-electric version of the Voima though).
EDIT: Voima has it done the same way the Stamina did, the shock being mounted at 90° to what it normally is with 90° yokes on both sides. The 2021 Range VLT did this at the bottom of the shock too, but has a normal mount at the top (with bearings in the rocker arm, so less than ideal in that regard).
For what it's worth I've been running a 230x65 mm Super Deluxe Ultimate for about two years now on my 150 mm bike (it was replaced after a year and a half, the original one way clicking, otherwise I'd likely be on that one still) and the 200h service I did 3 weeks ago was non eventful. Opening the bleed screw caused just a few drops of oil to flow to the top of the IFP in the reservoir.
Servicing a Super Deluxe from a Hightower, even within the specified timeframe, ALWAYS causes fizzy oil to flow past the bleed screw upon opening it and I have seen a Megatower with a scratch in the damper shaft. So there is something putting quite a bit of load into these shocks in Santa Cruzes. Even though the design looks fairly stout and shouldn't cause major issues, at least not compared to the design of my frame...
So, basically the industry forgot that letting the shock be a stressed member of the chassis is not good...
Yes. And it gets worse with the rigid mounting of the trunnion. I heard Rå bikes have made sure there are no sideloads on their link, even if it is a trunnion.
Yes the wall thickness left after the threads are cut into the body is totally inadequate when combined with a trunnion shock mounting.
The Fox fix has seemingly totally missed the fact the bodies are cracking
I hope suspension isn't your job, because calling it a "dampener" makes you sound like a dildo.
If it leaks, it will make its surroundings damp.
True. Dampening is what happens when a damper leaks and stops damping.
who is to blame though, the shock manufacturers, or the bike manufacturers for using these designs in the first place with inherent issues from the get go. Sort of a chicken and the egg scenario.
EXT E-storia fixes everything.
"Who is to blame though, the shock manufacturers, or the bike manufacturers?" Yes.
Trunnion was a team effort by the "we want a lower standover height on our trail bike with a vertically-oriented shock" crowd and the "if we don't make it, [insert "Fox" if you're Rockshox or "Rockshox" if you're Fox] will" crowd. Before trunnion, there were other bad solutions to this problem. Pre-trunnion, there was a spate of trail and enduro bikes with vertically-oriented shocks that were too short in stroke and over-leveraged in the suspension design as a way to reduce overall shock length and thus lower the standover for the bike. Predictably, life was hard on those over-leveraged shocks and the underdamped shocks bikes didn't ride that well.
With trunnion, frame designers teamed up with suspension manufacturers to make a solution to eliminate so many of the design constraints for vertically-oriented shock on a trail bike. And indeed, it's the perfect solution when you're looking at it in autocad or solidworks or whatever software they use to design this stuff. But again, some problems cropped up in actual regular trail use. In another 100000 warranties I'm sure they'll figure it out.
Trunion wouldn't be bad IF bikes were designed properly (stiff enough around the shock) AND were submitted to proper quality control (as basic as making sure top and bottom mounts are in line). Since neither of these happen in the bike industry, trunion shocks take shit loads of abuse that they are not designed for. I have 2 frames using trunion, my GF Liv Hail which is missaligned by 0.5mm and caused a lot of wear on a shock body before I found out and made offset bushings (frame was second hand). And my GT Force 29 which I found out is also missaligned by 1mm or so and for which they are really not too keen to offer waranty so far. If both those frames had mounts properly aligned no shock problems would have happened.
What brand of bikes & models is this happening to? Does Evil Bikes have this problem they run a Trunion mount on most of there product line I was a fan of Fox back in the 70’s but some of my(MX)riding buddies had problems with Fox Products and that was it for me I said never will I buy a Fox product & I’ve stuck to that there’s better Shox and forks out there. It’s on Fox to resolve this the World is watching stand behind your work & your product! Or if this is a Bike Brands design issue was the shock supplied as Original Equipment on a complete bike sale? Then it’s on both Companies & they both know it and there covering each other’s asses.
My transition bikes were terrible for frame alignment(2022 spire and 2022 sentinel).. the first sentinel frame i had creaked so bad when i took the shock out i couldnt get it back in unless i undid the main rocker bolt - the second frame knocked something wicked, that frame got a rock strike in the down tube and cracked the ALLOY.
spire was carbon and The shock didnt align very well and eventually it ripped the chainstay pivot away from the main frame.
All the issues The new Spectral has, the way the shock is mounted is very stiff, almost solid carbon and the shock felt super smooth.
I had a 2020 and 2022 firebird.. for whatever reason the new version IMO doesnt ride aswell and i went through a few shocks on it, So im curious what the draw is to the new bike.
Currently have a SJ EVO with a WRP link(and float x) and its been great(despite the WRP link making the overal yoke length longer.)
I cracked my trunnion shock on my Specialize Enduro. Not sure if it’s common for the bike as I haven’t read a big back lash about the Enduro shocks breaking, just the frames.
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