MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

Imagine choosing the yeti over this,oof

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/enduro-ltd/p/200363?color=322740-2003…

Not to mention that the chainstay growth between each size is only 2 mm (lol) while reach jumps inconsistently between sizes (30mm from small to medium and 15mm from XL to XXL)

Doesn't look there is any frame storage on the new 160 either 

RE Yeti SB160:

Yeah, pretty much exactly what I saw. Last month, when I first reported / posted about the bike, I had already seen to full line-up and my immediate thought was: "They must be joking."

My buddy says he'll cancel his orders and drop Yeti from his bikeshop. This was the final nail in the coffin, he says he sold about 5 Yeti bikes in the last 2.5 years, while selling Norco, Giant and Scott faster than he could order.

Apparently, paying out the nose for a badge and a brand name is just not something people are interested in. And who can blame them when a Canyon, YT or Propain at half the price of a new SB160 will perform 99% as well. Like, who is Yeti actually expecting to sell bikes to at this point?

It's in Australian Dollary'doo's correct.

Yes, the pricing is insane and that's what things are selling for in Aus. Without going on a Primoz tangent here (sorry bro) The rich are getting richer and the middle class are sliding the other way here  (as I'm sure it's the same in the States/UK/Etc.

For every Pivot/Yeti/Santa Cruz sold, there will be 10 Norco's/Canyons/Commencals on the trails. A GOOD bike here used to be $4-5k and that would be Fox/XT that would serve you well, that same build is $10k+ now.

But people will still pay $12-17k for a bike here without blinking. S-Works Kenevo SL's are sold without going on display here, can't get them fast enough. Nearing $24,000! ($15,400 USD)

It's a mad world out there at the moment. I'm just here for the ride.

I've become a meme! 

Seriously though, I'm feeling Norco is sliding upwards too. Sight A1 is an MSRP of 6100 eur. Aluminium and GX. That's more expensive than Commencal and Meta AM models haven't been cheap for a while now... 

6100 EURO for the Norco Sight A1? Holy shit, it retails for $6899 in Canada. That's  € 5100...

Shipping, duties and taxes my man.  Prolly doesn’t have much to do with Norco actual pricing.

Pricing often errs higher outside of a brand's home market because when they set MSRPs each year, they don't know what currency exchange rates are going to do. There has to be some wiggle room for the foreign currency to lose relative value and not take every bit of profit along with it.

The same Sight A1 was, if I'm not mistaken, 4500 € MSRP in 2020. Exact same spec except for an RC3 shock instead of the Ultimate and e.13 rims instead of Stan's Flows.

I wonder what prices will be like after next year's recession. I really don't see bike sales recovering from the 2022 slump in demand.

This market study seems to contradict what I'm saying, though:

Don't forget the regulation of distributor pricing by the Motherships. 
 
In Korea, bigger brands like Specialized, Trek, and Giant are mostly priced fairly, adding on the tax, shipping, etc... for a roughly 20% price increase. Occasionally, there are bikes that are actually cheaper here. Rare but happens. S-Works Turbo Levo frames were actually cheaper here for over a year. 

Now, boutique brands are much more "free" with their pricing policies. A couple of very, very popular boutique brands had distributors that were running unchecked and charging nearly double the price of US MSRP.  Their margins per bike/frame were crazy.

Eventually, the motherships came a calling with a lot of questions regarding sales. The distributors claimed the bikes were too expensive, but they had no answers when they were asked about their pricing and margins. So they got slapped and now we have a few boutique brands that are priced reasonably again, while some others are still bonkers

I'm pretty sure normal people are supposed to buy last year's yeti for 30% off and feel like they got a deal.  

Glad to see the market rebound.  New bike prices like everything are still quite a bit higher than pre covid, but the clearance and used market has returned to pretty reasonable levels.  

So you’re saying pricing has increased in the last 3 years…..

Interesting, I lived in S. Korea for a couple years, and found the bigger brands to be wildly priced, anything from Spesh, Trek was outrageous, but could get a Giant for much less.  Santa Cruz was popular, and like today, wildly over priced.

Having a high end bike was definitely a flex, with all the team kit to go along with it

bought a Kona hard tail, and raced DH on it, and it was priced reasonably.

the trails in and around Seoul were pretty awesome, I remember them fondly.  Along with all the reactions from locals when they saw a bunch of crazy mountain bikers bombing down what were hiking trails. 

Hard to predict future demand especially if you're using the pandemic as your growth metric. Would be better if this data set looked back to 2015. 

Can we table the economics discussion and put it in another thread or something? 

Looks like another proto form Envie but that's a weird shape for a carbon rim, isn't it ?

Yes, absolutely. 

I love my Norco Optic, but Norco prices in Europe are atrociously bad. (Like most North American brands, actually.) If they don't lower their prices again to pre-pandemic levels, I won't buy another Norco - no matter how great they are.

I bought my MY2021 Optic for 3.500€ in late 2020 and it wasn't even good value back then. Now that very same Optic costs 4.500€ (6.100 CAD).

Also the importer for Germany, Austria and Switzerland is absolutely useless, to put it mildly.

Yeti SB160 with Fox 38/X2 Factory, X1/XX1/GX AXS mix drivetrain (GX chain only GX part to be fair, but still), DT Swiss EX1700 aluminum wheelset 

$10,500USD 

Transition Spire (carbon) Fox/XT build, Fox 38/X2 Factory, XT drivetrain/brakes, DT Swiss EX1700 aluminum wheelset 

$7,000USD 

$3,500USD/42% price delta, when AXS is what a $600 upgrade? What am I missing here? Comical pricing. Edit: 50% more expensive than the Spire, math fail. Seriously though this pricing is a head scratcher. 

You don't understand bro..... it's Turq!

It's almost thanksgiving so actually it's.......Turquey! 

Looks like OneUp is teasing a new dropper on their Facebook?! I'm hoping for an even lower stack height so I can finally run full 180 on my Nomad :D

looks just like the current OneUp post... just in the 34.9mm size for chunky tubes ala Specialized Enduro 

Ya, teasing something for the thick bois running 34.9mm, jealous

Oneup have had the 34.9 out since the start of the year, that one doesn't look like its any different, e.g. thicker stanchion (which would mean a re-design of the clamp head)

I thought the Oneups have a dust seal that screws on and off to adjust height with shims. This one looks like it is solid instead.. am I incorrect?

it's just the 34.9mm version with that 

The two bikes, while somewhat similar in purpose and travel, are quite different bikes in terms of customer base. Also, Transition's compared to Santa Cruz's, Yeti's, and Pivot's are quote good value, and have been for quite some time, but also cater to a different trail user in general who have a difference sense of value outside of purchase price. Generally, I imagine Yeti customers or potential Yeti customers are shopping high end Santa Cruz's and Pivot's against Yeti, not Transition vs Yeti. The only issue I have with your argument, is that modern carbon mountain bikes, even Transition's, are comically expensive to begin with (so throw price, reason, or sense out the window), and also, at the end of the day, Yeti's have never been known for being great value in the dollar vs performance, and yet have been growing exponentially in the past 6 years (well before the pandemic). Their average customer assigns a lot value to brand identity, their undeniable performance, storied race history, and less value to overall purchase price. All that being said, I ride by choice, more cost effective alloy frames with nicer parts as it suits my budget and riding style better. At the end of the day, value is subjective, and while I wouldn't cash out $5000 for a frame, I understand why people do. 

Ratio teasing the new Sram mechanical UDH mount made by them I suppose.