related to the CSU..there is a case for them being 2 pieces.. I had a horrific case in summer (on a RFX38 m2 ) that would have destroyed many frames, but my canfield didnt flinch.. however I could not keep the headset properly tight after couple rides.. after several inspections at the bikeshop and then by myself, the steerer was bent (or pulled forward due to the impact) at the crown/tube interface, measured at 0.3deg, that was enough to throw off all surfaces around the headset.. I did replace it and have a new fork again..
The chassis is the most important part of the fork, starting with subpar tolerances and construction , your fancy damper and air spring are meaningless...
related to the CSU..there is a case for them being 2 pieces.. I had a horrific case in summer (on a RFX38 m2 ) that would...
related to the CSU..there is a case for them being 2 pieces.. I had a horrific case in summer (on a RFX38 m2 ) that would have destroyed many frames, but my canfield didnt flinch.. however I could not keep the headset properly tight after couple rides.. after several inspections at the bikeshop and then by myself, the steerer was bent (or pulled forward due to the impact) at the crown/tube interface, measured at 0.3deg, that was enough to throw off all surfaces around the headset.. I did replace it and have a new fork again..
The chassis is the most important part of the fork, starting with subpar tolerances and construction , your fancy damper and air spring are meaningless...
your last comment is a very good one - no amount of damping magic can compensate for poor alignment & binding - be it from deflection in the lowers or tight bushings.
That's wild. As someone mentioned in another thread (tech rumors I think?), tight tolerances are so hard to get in manufacturing but so important for MTB...
That's wild. As someone mentioned in another thread (tech rumors I think?), tight tolerances are so hard to get in manufacturing but so important for MTB. This fork lower seems like it never should have passed QC.
It's probably not the casting (the lowers) that's the issue, it's the stanchion alignment (the CSU).
I've been a bit skeptical the last few years of the trend of home mechanics burnishing and re-sizing their bushings, because in my experience the clearance you want is pretty tight and specific. Seems like a lot of the time users are just hogging them out, which can be just as bad as having tight bushings. And to be clear, there are forks with tight bushings too.
But back to the broader subject, yes the pendulum is swinging back to a focus on damping and perhaps the realization that you can't (and don't want to) do everything with the spring.
Or run an Ohlins or Manitou and get both a supportive air spring and great damping.
The CSUs are still a problem, haven't met one from any brand that can last a full season of hard riding under my stunning mediocrity. I've accepted that CSUs are a wear item and I might just start buying spares when they're in stock. Bring on the enduro dual crowns.
It's probably not the casting (the lowers) that's the issue, it's the stanchion alignment (the CSU).I've been a bit skeptical the last few years of the...
It's probably not the casting (the lowers) that's the issue, it's the stanchion alignment (the CSU).
I've been a bit skeptical the last few years of the trend of home mechanics burnishing and re-sizing their bushings, because in my experience the clearance you want is pretty tight and specific. Seems like a lot of the time users are just hogging them out, which can be just as bad as having tight bushings. And to be clear, there are forks with tight bushings too.
But back to the broader subject, yes the pendulum is swinging back to a focus on damping and perhaps the realization that you can't (and don't want to) do everything with the spring.
Totally, I'm also skeptical of home burnishing wizards and how much of the Great Bushing Epidemic of 2024 is real vs. imagined for social media noise.
Based on the video and the comments from Diaz, it seems like it wasn't a bushing issue, "Again NO BUSHING BURNISHING NEEDED OR WOULD HAVE EVEN HELPED." Seems like it was a misalignment in the actual casting or a mis-facing of the casting's axle interface that resulted in a twisting of the lowers when the axle was clamped. Could have been the CSU alignment too, but based on the text from Diaz it seems like they think the CSU alignment (while less than perfect) wasn't the issue with this fork- "Measured the uppers at the top and bottom with calipers to see how far out of alignment those were. This is one of the few things actually measurable and again it doesn't mean much. We pretty regularly have to purposely misalign the uppers to run smoothly with the lowers. We have tried getting them perfect and working from there and it rarely works."
I'm also skeptical of suspension tuners that make their name by saying everything from SRAM and Fox HQ is trash (e.g. Rulezman) but either way, this specific fork seems like a lemon. Either the casting was out of spec (Diaz' theory) or the uppers were out of spec (alternate theory), but something on that fork should have been thrown in the garbage on the QC line instead of getting shipped to a customer.
To go back to the original original question in this thread, my thoughts on the current generation of forks is that they're (by and large) phenomenal. I'm super impressed with what's available and I feel like the performance trade offs you have to choose with any setup are smaller and smaller every year. I've spent a lot of time on the Zeb and 38 and if I was blindfolded I couldn't tell you the difference. The Ohlins DHZXF38 (or whatever their single crown is called) is also great, with a slightly more damped feel. Pepperidge Farm remembers when single crown forks for 29" wheels were really, really bad.
It's probably not the casting (the lowers) that's the issue, it's the stanchion alignment (the CSU).I've been a bit skeptical the last few years of the...
It's probably not the casting (the lowers) that's the issue, it's the stanchion alignment (the CSU).
I've been a bit skeptical the last few years of the trend of home mechanics burnishing and re-sizing their bushings, because in my experience the clearance you want is pretty tight and specific. Seems like a lot of the time users are just hogging them out, which can be just as bad as having tight bushings. And to be clear, there are forks with tight bushings too.
But back to the broader subject, yes the pendulum is swinging back to a focus on damping and perhaps the realization that you can't (and don't want to) do everything with the spring.
Totally, I'm also skeptical of home burnishing wizards and how much of the Great Bushing Epidemic of 2024 is real vs. imagined for social media noise.Based...
Totally, I'm also skeptical of home burnishing wizards and how much of the Great Bushing Epidemic of 2024 is real vs. imagined for social media noise.
Based on the video and the comments from Diaz, it seems like it wasn't a bushing issue, "Again NO BUSHING BURNISHING NEEDED OR WOULD HAVE EVEN HELPED." Seems like it was a misalignment in the actual casting or a mis-facing of the casting's axle interface that resulted in a twisting of the lowers when the axle was clamped. Could have been the CSU alignment too, but based on the text from Diaz it seems like they think the CSU alignment (while less than perfect) wasn't the issue with this fork- "Measured the uppers at the top and bottom with calipers to see how far out of alignment those were. This is one of the few things actually measurable and again it doesn't mean much. We pretty regularly have to purposely misalign the uppers to run smoothly with the lowers. We have tried getting them perfect and working from there and it rarely works."
I'm also skeptical of suspension tuners that make their name by saying everything from SRAM and Fox HQ is trash (e.g. Rulezman) but either way, this specific fork seems like a lemon. Either the casting was out of spec (Diaz' theory) or the uppers were out of spec (alternate theory), but something on that fork should have been thrown in the garbage on the QC line instead of getting shipped to a customer.
To go back to the original original question in this thread, my thoughts on the current generation of forks is that they're (by and large) phenomenal. I'm super impressed with what's available and I feel like the performance trade offs you have to choose with any setup are smaller and smaller every year. I've spent a lot of time on the Zeb and 38 and if I was blindfolded I couldn't tell you the difference. The Ohlins DHZXF38 (or whatever their single crown is called) is also great, with a slightly more damped feel. Pepperidge Farm remembers when single crown forks for 29" wheels were really, really bad.
As someone who has some home burnishing equipment at his house (started a couple years ago), it's been pretty nice to have and there seems to be some benefit. However, it does seem that the fork performance tends to "degrade" quicker in between services. I find myself needing to really adhere to the service intervals.
Fun fact about my experience with fork burnishing, I burnished my wife's 34, left the setup the exact same and the first ride we went on with it she complained with how more "squishy" her fork felt, had to go up in pressure and and some damping to get it feeling the way she wanted to again. Which I think is a good thing. I do think people underestimate how much frictional forces impact suspension performance, especially for lighter riders as its a vastly higher percentage.
As for myself, I've been wondering if it's worthwhile to jump ship from Fox to RS (or any other brand) for a while. I've been invested in the Fox fork "ecosystem" via just various tools, and the idea of having to jump ship and get more tools to do basic service has put me off really trying any other brand. But I think the general consensus is that mountain bike suspension is pretty damn good all around, which is probably the best thing for everyone.
As far as shocks go. Get yourself a Telum. Those vorsprung guys are damn wizards.
It's probably not the casting (the lowers) that's the issue, it's the stanchion alignment (the CSU).I've been a bit skeptical the last few years of the...
It's probably not the casting (the lowers) that's the issue, it's the stanchion alignment (the CSU).
I've been a bit skeptical the last few years of the trend of home mechanics burnishing and re-sizing their bushings, because in my experience the clearance you want is pretty tight and specific. Seems like a lot of the time users are just hogging them out, which can be just as bad as having tight bushings. And to be clear, there are forks with tight bushings too.
But back to the broader subject, yes the pendulum is swinging back to a focus on damping and perhaps the realization that you can't (and don't want to) do everything with the spring.
Totally, I'm also skeptical of home burnishing wizards and how much of the Great Bushing Epidemic of 2024 is real vs. imagined for social media noise.Based...
Totally, I'm also skeptical of home burnishing wizards and how much of the Great Bushing Epidemic of 2024 is real vs. imagined for social media noise.
Based on the video and the comments from Diaz, it seems like it wasn't a bushing issue, "Again NO BUSHING BURNISHING NEEDED OR WOULD HAVE EVEN HELPED." Seems like it was a misalignment in the actual casting or a mis-facing of the casting's axle interface that resulted in a twisting of the lowers when the axle was clamped. Could have been the CSU alignment too, but based on the text from Diaz it seems like they think the CSU alignment (while less than perfect) wasn't the issue with this fork- "Measured the uppers at the top and bottom with calipers to see how far out of alignment those were. This is one of the few things actually measurable and again it doesn't mean much. We pretty regularly have to purposely misalign the uppers to run smoothly with the lowers. We have tried getting them perfect and working from there and it rarely works."
I'm also skeptical of suspension tuners that make their name by saying everything from SRAM and Fox HQ is trash (e.g. Rulezman) but either way, this specific fork seems like a lemon. Either the casting was out of spec (Diaz' theory) or the uppers were out of spec (alternate theory), but something on that fork should have been thrown in the garbage on the QC line instead of getting shipped to a customer.
To go back to the original original question in this thread, my thoughts on the current generation of forks is that they're (by and large) phenomenal. I'm super impressed with what's available and I feel like the performance trade offs you have to choose with any setup are smaller and smaller every year. I've spent a lot of time on the Zeb and 38 and if I was blindfolded I couldn't tell you the difference. The Ohlins DHZXF38 (or whatever their single crown is called) is also great, with a slightly more damped feel. Pepperidge Farm remembers when single crown forks for 29" wheels were really, really bad.
Put your fork in a vice inverted at 45 degrees, remove the wiper seals and damper airpspring etc so it's just lowers sliding over bushings, and you'll notice with most forks you'll need to pull apart or push together the lowers to get it to slide smoothly down.
related to the CSU..there is a case for them being 2 pieces.. I had a horrific case in summer (on a RFX38 m2 ) that would have destroyed many frames, but my canfield didnt flinch.. however I could not keep the headset properly tight after couple rides.. after several inspections at the bikeshop and then by myself, the steerer was bent (or pulled forward due to the impact) at the crown/tube interface, measured at 0.3deg, that was enough to throw off all surfaces around the headset.. I did replace it and have a new fork again..
The chassis is the most important part of the fork, starting with subpar tolerances and construction , your fancy damper and air spring are meaningless...
your last comment is a very good one - no amount of damping magic can compensate for poor alignment & binding - be it from deflection in the lowers or tight bushings.
It's probably not the casting (the lowers) that's the issue, it's the stanchion alignment (the CSU).
I've been a bit skeptical the last few years of the trend of home mechanics burnishing and re-sizing their bushings, because in my experience the clearance you want is pretty tight and specific. Seems like a lot of the time users are just hogging them out, which can be just as bad as having tight bushings. And to be clear, there are forks with tight bushings too.
But back to the broader subject, yes the pendulum is swinging back to a focus on damping and perhaps the realization that you can't (and don't want to) do everything with the spring.
Or run an Ohlins or Manitou and get both a supportive air spring and great damping.
The CSUs are still a problem, haven't met one from any brand that can last a full season of hard riding under my stunning mediocrity. I've accepted that CSUs are a wear item and I might just start buying spares when they're in stock. Bring on the enduro dual crowns.
Totally, I'm also skeptical of home burnishing wizards and how much of the Great Bushing Epidemic of 2024 is real vs. imagined for social media noise.
Based on the video and the comments from Diaz, it seems like it wasn't a bushing issue, "Again NO BUSHING BURNISHING NEEDED OR WOULD HAVE EVEN HELPED." Seems like it was a misalignment in the actual casting or a mis-facing of the casting's axle interface that resulted in a twisting of the lowers when the axle was clamped. Could have been the CSU alignment too, but based on the text from Diaz it seems like they think the CSU alignment (while less than perfect) wasn't the issue with this fork- "Measured the uppers at the top and bottom with calipers to see how far out of alignment those were. This is one of the few things actually measurable and again it doesn't mean much. We pretty regularly have to purposely misalign the uppers to run smoothly with the lowers. We have tried getting them perfect and working from there and it rarely works."
I'm also skeptical of suspension tuners that make their name by saying everything from SRAM and Fox HQ is trash (e.g. Rulezman) but either way, this specific fork seems like a lemon. Either the casting was out of spec (Diaz' theory) or the uppers were out of spec (alternate theory), but something on that fork should have been thrown in the garbage on the QC line instead of getting shipped to a customer.
To go back to the original original question in this thread, my thoughts on the current generation of forks is that they're (by and large) phenomenal. I'm super impressed with what's available and I feel like the performance trade offs you have to choose with any setup are smaller and smaller every year. I've spent a lot of time on the Zeb and 38 and if I was blindfolded I couldn't tell you the difference. The Ohlins DHZXF38 (or whatever their single crown is called) is also great, with a slightly more damped feel. Pepperidge Farm remembers when single crown forks for 29" wheels were really, really bad.
As someone who has some home burnishing equipment at his house (started a couple years ago), it's been pretty nice to have and there seems to be some benefit. However, it does seem that the fork performance tends to "degrade" quicker in between services. I find myself needing to really adhere to the service intervals.
Fun fact about my experience with fork burnishing, I burnished my wife's 34, left the setup the exact same and the first ride we went on with it she complained with how more "squishy" her fork felt, had to go up in pressure and and some damping to get it feeling the way she wanted to again. Which I think is a good thing. I do think people underestimate how much frictional forces impact suspension performance, especially for lighter riders as its a vastly higher percentage.
As for myself, I've been wondering if it's worthwhile to jump ship from Fox to RS (or any other brand) for a while. I've been invested in the Fox fork "ecosystem" via just various tools, and the idea of having to jump ship and get more tools to do basic service has put me off really trying any other brand. But I think the general consensus is that mountain bike suspension is pretty damn good all around, which is probably the best thing for everyone.
As far as shocks go. Get yourself a Telum. Those vorsprung guys are damn wizards.
Put your fork in a vice inverted at 45 degrees, remove the wiper seals and damper airpspring etc so it's just lowers sliding over bushings, and you'll notice with most forks you'll need to pull apart or push together the lowers to get it to slide smoothly down.
Post a reply to: Thoughts on the current generation of forks