Obviously a disaster with the weather but I did think camera coverage was night and day compared to fort William so that’s one small positive we can take from this weekend.
Despite the crazy weather patterns it was still a heck of a show. I was watching as my wife drove across Missouri. As Greg was throwing down that heater I was yelling and jumping up in my chair. I don’t know how the little lady kept it on the road with the circus going on next to her.
I really don’t like how the winners of a weather effected race feel the need to apologize for their win. This sport takes a heap of skill and dedication to put one’s self in the hunt, but once you are there it takes a bit of luck to get on to the podium. Sometimes it’s just not your day.
Granted my paycheck isn’t riding on results, but I like it when the weather plays Robin Hood with downhill results every once in a while.
Despite the crazy weather patterns it was still a heck of a show. I was watching as my wife drove across Missouri. As Greg was throwing...
Despite the crazy weather patterns it was still a heck of a show. I was watching as my wife drove across Missouri. As Greg was throwing down that heater I was yelling and jumping up in my chair. I don’t know how the little lady kept it on the road with the circus going on next to her.
I really don’t like how the winners of a weather effected race feel the need to apologize for their win. This sport takes a heap of skill and dedication to put one’s self in the hunt, but once you are there it takes a bit of luck to get on to the podium. Sometimes it’s just not your day.
Granted my paycheck isn’t riding on results, but I like it when the weather plays Robin Hood with downhill results every once in a while.
I think they have to acknowledge that weather played a part, it would be funny for one of them to lean into it and be like "hell yes thank you weather!".
But yeah, this is second race in a few years Thibaut has won thanks to rain (Les Gets a few years ago), in both cases few people would argue that he wasn't on pace to win anyway. But when you see how hard Bruni pushed in impossible conditions, you kinda have to give him (and others) credit.
It should be noted that final runs award UCI ranking points to 60th (a hold over from years past as per the Annex 3 I noted...
It should be noted that final runs award UCI ranking points to 60th (a hold over from years past as per the Annex 3 I noted in a poost further back in this thread) but as there is a maximum possibility of 40 riders allowed into a final (30 non-protected riders plus the 10 finals protected guys assuming they didn't do a good enough run in semis) it's effectively only scoring to 40th which awards 21 UCI ranking points. Taylor Vernon's 31st at Lenzerheide earned him a whopping 30 UCI ranking points.
UCI Ranking is based off a rolling 12 months of earned points so it would be possible to be qualified for Andorra, go 21st in Qualifiers, 1st in Semis, then DNF finals and not be able to race the next round because one of the races that you scored UCI Ranking points is now a year and week in the past taking those points out of your total lessening you to 39 points.
I'd like to think the UCI/ESO simply overlooked changing Annex 3 to reflect the changes in how the sport is being run at world cups to make earned WC standing points the same as ranking points as things have always been, but something tells me that was intentional to ween the field down indirectly before next year's likely direct cutting of the field.
When I read this, I thought it was correct. But then looking at the results sheets from this last race, when they had a finals with more than the expected 30 / 10 riders, they only awarded points to the top 30 men and top 10 women? Or does the results sheet only show World Cup points, in which case they may have awarded UCI points to the top 60, but WC points only to the top 30?
It should be noted that final runs award UCI ranking points to 60th (a hold over from years past as per the Annex 3 I noted...
It should be noted that final runs award UCI ranking points to 60th (a hold over from years past as per the Annex 3 I noted in a poost further back in this thread) but as there is a maximum possibility of 40 riders allowed into a final (30 non-protected riders plus the 10 finals protected guys assuming they didn't do a good enough run in semis) it's effectively only scoring to 40th which awards 21 UCI ranking points. Taylor Vernon's 31st at Lenzerheide earned him a whopping 30 UCI ranking points.
UCI Ranking is based off a rolling 12 months of earned points so it would be possible to be qualified for Andorra, go 21st in Qualifiers, 1st in Semis, then DNF finals and not be able to race the next round because one of the races that you scored UCI Ranking points is now a year and week in the past taking those points out of your total lessening you to 39 points.
I'd like to think the UCI/ESO simply overlooked changing Annex 3 to reflect the changes in how the sport is being run at world cups to make earned WC standing points the same as ranking points as things have always been, but something tells me that was intentional to ween the field down indirectly before next year's likely direct cutting of the field.
When I read this, I thought it was correct. But then looking at the results sheets from this last race, when they had a finals with...
When I read this, I thought it was correct. But then looking at the results sheets from this last race, when they had a finals with more than the expected 30 / 10 riders, they only awarded points to the top 30 men and top 10 women? Or does the results sheet only show World Cup points, in which case they may have awarded UCI points to the top 60, but WC points only to the top 30?
World Cup series points only go to 30th, Taylor Vernon got zero points for his Lenzerheide 31st place in finals. It’s a shame you can make finals and not earn any series points. UCI points go to 60th in finals per the rule book.
Wow, that track was properly ruined by the time finals came around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04Cs_IFNhB4
Considering how the top section was rained on and reshaped on the first...
It should be noted that final runs award UCI ranking points to 60th (a hold over from years past as per the Annex 3 I noted...
It should be noted that final runs award UCI ranking points to 60th (a hold over from years past as per the Annex 3 I noted in a poost further back in this thread) but as there is a maximum possibility of 40 riders allowed into a final (30 non-protected riders plus the 10 finals protected guys assuming they didn't do a good enough run in semis) it's effectively only scoring to 40th which awards 21 UCI ranking points. Taylor Vernon's 31st at Lenzerheide earned him a whopping 30 UCI ranking points.
UCI Ranking is based off a rolling 12 months of earned points so it would be possible to be qualified for Andorra, go 21st in Qualifiers, 1st in Semis, then DNF finals and not be able to race the next round because one of the races that you scored UCI Ranking points is now a year and week in the past taking those points out of your total lessening you to 39 points.
I'd like to think the UCI/ESO simply overlooked changing Annex 3 to reflect the changes in how the sport is being run at world cups to make earned WC standing points the same as ranking points as things have always been, but something tells me that was intentional to ween the field down indirectly before next year's likely direct cutting of the field.
When I read this, I thought it was correct. But then looking at the results sheets from this last race, when they had a finals with...
When I read this, I thought it was correct. But then looking at the results sheets from this last race, when they had a finals with more than the expected 30 / 10 riders, they only awarded points to the top 30 men and top 10 women? Or does the results sheet only show World Cup points, in which case they may have awarded UCI points to the top 60, but WC points only to the top 30?
World Cup series points only go to 30th, Taylor Vernon got zero points for his Lenzerheide 31st place in finals. It’s a shame you can make...
World Cup series points only go to 30th, Taylor Vernon got zero points for his Lenzerheide 31st place in finals. It’s a shame you can make finals and not earn any series points. UCI points go to 60th in finals per the rule book.
so last year with no semi final, you got points to 60th. This weekend they didn't run a semi-final but kinda awarded points like they did i.e Top 30 of the 60 that dropped got finals points.
I can see Bruni's frustration right after in putting down that run and not seeming like he gained anything but if he reflects back he may realize that he actually did gain a little bit on some of the other riders around him. Hypothetically f they did try and run the semi and the finals at some point the final start list and who ended up getting points at the end of the day would have looked alot different. Safe to say that Top 10 qualifiers would have made it to a through the semi to the final if conditions were level some would have been protected in. If that was the case and they ran a 30 person final then riders like Loris, Jordan Benoit, Danny, Jackson, Dak would have scored top 30 series points. Andreas coming last in a 30 person final would have gave him 30 points not 0. Bruni got 46 points for finishing 22nd (most likely would have placed higher as I suspect a few riders of him wouldn't have made it through a semi) but more importantly he finished ahead of Loris who he was behind in the standings and Bruni was able to close the gap from 90 points to 14. LB Stayed in 5th overall only because Daprela jumped from 7th to 4th and Kolb went from 4th to 6th
When I read this, I thought it was correct. But then looking at the results sheets from this last race, when they had a finals with...
When I read this, I thought it was correct. But then looking at the results sheets from this last race, when they had a finals with more than the expected 30 / 10 riders, they only awarded points to the top 30 men and top 10 women? Or does the results sheet only show World Cup points, in which case they may have awarded UCI points to the top 60, but WC points only to the top 30?
World Cup series points only go to 30th, Taylor Vernon got zero points for his Lenzerheide 31st place in finals. It’s a shame you can make...
World Cup series points only go to 30th, Taylor Vernon got zero points for his Lenzerheide 31st place in finals. It’s a shame you can make finals and not earn any series points. UCI points go to 60th in finals per the rule book.
so last year with no semi final, you got points to 60th. This weekend they didn't run a semi-final but kinda awarded points like they did...
so last year with no semi final, you got points to 60th. This weekend they didn't run a semi-final but kinda awarded points like they did i.e Top 30 of the 60 that dropped got finals points.
I can see Bruni's frustration right after in putting down that run and not seeming like he gained anything but if he reflects back he may realize that he actually did gain a little bit on some of the other riders around him. Hypothetically f they did try and run the semi and the finals at some point the final start list and who ended up getting points at the end of the day would have looked alot different. Safe to say that Top 10 qualifiers would have made it to a through the semi to the final if conditions were level some would have been protected in. If that was the case and they ran a 30 person final then riders like Loris, Jordan Benoit, Danny, Jackson, Dak would have scored top 30 series points. Andreas coming last in a 30 person final would have gave him 30 points not 0. Bruni got 46 points for finishing 22nd (most likely would have placed higher as I suspect a few riders of him wouldn't have made it through a semi) but more importantly he finished ahead of Loris who he was behind in the standings and Bruni was able to close the gap from 90 points to 14. LB Stayed in 5th overall only because Daprela jumped from 7th to 4th and Kolb went from 4th to 6th
Chances of Bruni & others not making the final if they had ran a semi-final would have ramped up drastically.
The top 10 guys know they can easily go to 31st place without a full out blitz run if weather affected.
Not sure why others are railing on the venue for being incompetent for moving the race back. Weather is weather and you can't predict mother nature, especially when lives could be on the line. Anyone watching the start hut signage almost ripped off it's moorings as Taylor Vernon was in the gate but then 10 minutes later nothing but a stiff breeze...that sums up mother nature. Fickle.
Want to have some real head scratching fun...look at the split time results on Roots & Rain. It's insane. 5 splits & yet Daprela & GM are the only 2 who have ONE split segment outside the top 10.
Of the top 10 finishers, 7th through 10th place each ONLY have TWO splits in top 10.
6th place only has THREE splits that are all top 10.
So finally, it looks like we don't need semi finals!! Why can't we just wait a day or two to make sure to have fair conditions? Many other events such as surfing are able to allocate time to provide fair conditions.
UCI job is to provide a fair competition environment. it's not about providing entertainment and optimal sponsor exposure... I think they lost their direction here!!
So finally, it looks like we don't need semi finals!! Why can't we just wait a day or two to make sure to have fair conditions...
So finally, it looks like we don't need semi finals!! Why can't we just wait a day or two to make sure to have fair conditions? Many other events such as surfing are able to allocate time to provide fair conditions.
UCI job is to provide a fair competition environment. it's not about providing entertainment and optimal sponsor exposure... I think they lost their direction here!!
BTW, in my books, Loic Bruni was the fastest..
Trouble is, that's a lot more expense for the venue, the broadcasters/press and the teams.
So finally, it looks like we don't need semi finals!! Why can't we just wait a day or two to make sure to have fair conditions...
So finally, it looks like we don't need semi finals!! Why can't we just wait a day or two to make sure to have fair conditions? Many other events such as surfing are able to allocate time to provide fair conditions.
UCI job is to provide a fair competition environment. it's not about providing entertainment and optimal sponsor exposure... I think they lost their direction here!!
Trouble is, that's a lot more expense for the venue, the broadcasters/press and the teams.
Agree, but they are also the ones generating revenues. There needs to be a balance between maximizing revenues and providing fair competition and it looks like most of the time there are few voices to advocate for the riders and the "spirit of the sport".
It's a sports competition with athletes not a show with entertainers. Athletes are not being paid by broadcasters and hosts, they are actually paying to compete.
(You can argue that they have sponsors paying them to be broadcasted but I think we put too much value on this broadcast. These athletes have probably way more value at being likable and badass riders and being featured on websites, and videos than being a few minutes on a paid feed. Proof that many riders are being seen as valuable and sponsored without even racing or being on the broadcast)
while it sucks the best guys got screwed that’s nothing new. And sometimes it leads to the most memorable runs in the sport. Hill in champery. Gwin in msa. Assuming Finn doesn’t catch fire and win the overall loic’s run today could very well be the difference between him and Jackson.
They could’ve ran 30 second gaps and had both races over in an hr but then there wouldn’t been much of broadcast. They could also cut the field down but as a fan that’s the opposite of what I want. At least not without a semifinal to keep the series stocked with up and coming talent.
I think Greg summed it up best. Got lucky that day and been screwed over plenty of other times.
still not a fan of this track. Not enough technicality to separate the midfield. I was on snooze mode till Greg came down who was visibly faster in the middle of the track. Couldn’t see what thibault did in the bottom to get ahead of Greg.
Then the rain started and the race was obviously over very quick. Still massive props to loic to accomplish what he did.
“That’s racing”
while it sucks the best guys got screwed that’s nothing new. And sometimes it leads to the most memorable runs in the sport...
“That’s racing”
while it sucks the best guys got screwed that’s nothing new. And sometimes it leads to the most memorable runs in the sport. Hill in champery. Gwin in msa. Assuming Finn doesn’t catch fire and win the overall loic’s run today could very well be the difference between him and Jackson.
They could’ve ran 30 second gaps and had both races over in an hr but then there wouldn’t been much of broadcast. They could also cut the field down but as a fan that’s the opposite of what I want. At least not without a semifinal to keep the series stocked with up and coming talent.
I think Greg summed it up best. Got lucky that day and been screwed over plenty of other times.
still not a fan of this track. Not enough technicality to separate the midfield. I was on snooze mode till Greg came down who was visibly faster in the middle of the track. Couldn’t see what thibault did in the bottom to get ahead of Greg.
Then the rain started and the race was obviously over very quick. Still massive props to loic to accomplish what he did.
Daprela is just lighter. That's what got him through the bomb holes at the bottom that a bigger rider would hang on.
World Cup series points only go to 30th, Taylor Vernon got zero points for his Lenzerheide 31st place in finals. It’s a shame you can make...
World Cup series points only go to 30th, Taylor Vernon got zero points for his Lenzerheide 31st place in finals. It’s a shame you can make finals and not earn any series points. UCI points go to 60th in finals per the rule book.
so last year with no semi final, you got points to 60th. This weekend they didn't run a semi-final but kinda awarded points like they did...
so last year with no semi final, you got points to 60th. This weekend they didn't run a semi-final but kinda awarded points like they did i.e Top 30 of the 60 that dropped got finals points.
I can see Bruni's frustration right after in putting down that run and not seeming like he gained anything but if he reflects back he may realize that he actually did gain a little bit on some of the other riders around him. Hypothetically f they did try and run the semi and the finals at some point the final start list and who ended up getting points at the end of the day would have looked alot different. Safe to say that Top 10 qualifiers would have made it to a through the semi to the final if conditions were level some would have been protected in. If that was the case and they ran a 30 person final then riders like Loris, Jordan Benoit, Danny, Jackson, Dak would have scored top 30 series points. Andreas coming last in a 30 person final would have gave him 30 points not 0. Bruni got 46 points for finishing 22nd (most likely would have placed higher as I suspect a few riders of him wouldn't have made it through a semi) but more importantly he finished ahead of Loris who he was behind in the standings and Bruni was able to close the gap from 90 points to 14. LB Stayed in 5th overall only because Daprela jumped from 7th to 4th and Kolb went from 4th to 6th
Chances of Bruni & others not making the final if they had ran a semi-final would have ramped up drastically.
The top 10 guys know they...
Chances of Bruni & others not making the final if they had ran a semi-final would have ramped up drastically.
The top 10 guys know they can easily go to 31st place without a full out blitz run if weather affected.
Not sure why others are railing on the venue for being incompetent for moving the race back. Weather is weather and you can't predict mother nature, especially when lives could be on the line. Anyone watching the start hut signage almost ripped off it's moorings as Taylor Vernon was in the gate but then 10 minutes later nothing but a stiff breeze...that sums up mother nature. Fickle.
Want to have some real head scratching fun...look at the split time results on Roots & Rain. It's insane. 5 splits & yet Daprela & GM are the only 2 who have ONE split segment outside the top 10.
Of the top 10 finishers, 7th through 10th place each ONLY have TWO splits in top 10.
6th place only has THREE splits that are all top 10.
At least last year top five overall are protected for finals plus the best five from this year which are not included in the last year protected riders, making only nine guys that are currently racing safe :/
Only UCI Ranking points, not World Cup Overall points.
When there is semi finals 31-60 get zero UCI points but because they canceled the semis those riders who would have got zero points because they did not make it to finals got points.
Only UCI Ranking points, not World Cup Overall points.
For the guys ranked 31-60 in the standings, the UCI ranking points are probably more important than the World Cup points anyways. They definitely got lucky with that schedule change, but they shouldn't have to get lucky just to keep the points from a race run.
Daprela is just lighter. That's what got him through the bomb holes at the bottom that a bigger rider would hang on.
A 0.1s is so ridiculously small of a margin. Literally could have been decided by the air resistance of their go pro coming into the finishing line. Just goes to show you how far these guys are pushing the limits of the track and their equipment.
A 0.1s is so ridiculously small of a margin. Literally could have been decided by the air resistance of their go pro coming into the finishing...
A 0.1s is so ridiculously small of a margin. Literally could have been decided by the air resistance of their go pro coming into the finishing line. Just goes to show you how far these guys are pushing the limits of the track and their equipment.
For anyone who hasn't seen it, Elliot's analysis on the latest Beyond The Line is worth a look.
Obviously a disaster with the weather but I did think camera coverage was night and day compared to fort William so that’s one small positive we can take from this weekend.
Despite the crazy weather patterns it was still a heck of a show. I was watching as my wife drove across Missouri. As Greg was throwing down that heater I was yelling and jumping up in my chair. I don’t know how the little lady kept it on the road with the circus going on next to her.
I really don’t like how the winners of a weather effected race feel the need to apologize for their win. This sport takes a heap of skill and dedication to put one’s self in the hunt, but once you are there it takes a bit of luck to get on to the podium. Sometimes it’s just not your day.
Granted my paycheck isn’t riding on results, but I like it when the weather plays Robin Hood with downhill results every once in a while.
I think they have to acknowledge that weather played a part, it would be funny for one of them to lean into it and be like "hell yes thank you weather!".
But yeah, this is second race in a few years Thibaut has won thanks to rain (Les Gets a few years ago), in both cases few people would argue that he wasn't on pace to win anyway. But when you see how hard Bruni pushed in impossible conditions, you kinda have to give him (and others) credit.
When I read this, I thought it was correct. But then looking at the results sheets from this last race, when they had a finals with more than the expected 30 / 10 riders, they only awarded points to the top 30 men and top 10 women? Or does the results sheet only show World Cup points, in which case they may have awarded UCI points to the top 60, but WC points only to the top 30?
World Cup series points only go to 30th, Taylor Vernon got zero points for his Lenzerheide 31st place in finals. It’s a shame you can make finals and not earn any series points. UCI points go to 60th in finals per the rule book.
Wow, that track was properly ruined by the time finals came around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04Cs_IFNhB4
Considering how the top section was rained on and reshaped on the first day of the event, those braking bumps and ruts are crazy.
I would love to see a frame by frame for Thibault and Greg's runs. I bet they would look surprisingly different for having nearly identical results.
so last year with no semi final, you got points to 60th. This weekend they didn't run a semi-final but kinda awarded points like they did i.e Top 30 of the 60 that dropped got finals points.
I can see Bruni's frustration right after in putting down that run and not seeming like he gained anything but if he reflects back he may realize that he actually did gain a little bit on some of the other riders around him. Hypothetically f they did try and run the semi and the finals at some point the final start list and who ended up getting points at the end of the day would have looked alot different. Safe to say that Top 10 qualifiers would have made it to a through the semi to the final if conditions were level some would have been protected in. If that was the case and they ran a 30 person final then riders like Loris, Jordan Benoit, Danny, Jackson, Dak would have scored top 30 series points. Andreas coming last in a 30 person final would have gave him 30 points not 0. Bruni got 46 points for finishing 22nd (most likely would have placed higher as I suspect a few riders of him wouldn't have made it through a semi) but more importantly he finished ahead of Loris who he was behind in the standings and Bruni was able to close the gap from 90 points to 14. LB Stayed in 5th overall only because Daprela jumped from 7th to 4th and Kolb went from 4th to 6th
Chances of Bruni & others not making the final if they had ran a semi-final would have ramped up drastically.
The top 10 guys know they can easily go to 31st place without a full out blitz run if weather affected.
Not sure why others are railing on the venue for being incompetent for moving the race back. Weather is weather and you can't predict mother nature, especially when lives could be on the line. Anyone watching the start hut signage almost ripped off it's moorings as Taylor Vernon was in the gate but then 10 minutes later nothing but a stiff breeze...that sums up mother nature. Fickle.
Want to have some real head scratching fun...look at the split time results on Roots & Rain. It's insane. 5 splits & yet Daprela & GM are the only 2 who have ONE split segment outside the top 10.
Of the top 10 finishers, 7th through 10th place each ONLY have TWO splits in top 10.
6th place only has THREE splits that are all top 10.
https://www.rootsandrain.com/event10715/2023-aug-26-uci-world-cup-dh-4-…;
So finally, it looks like we don't need semi finals!! Why can't we just wait a day or two to make sure to have fair conditions? Many other events such as surfing are able to allocate time to provide fair conditions.
UCI job is to provide a fair competition environment. it's not about providing entertainment and optimal sponsor exposure... I think they lost their direction here!!
BTW, in my books, Loic Bruni was the fastest..
Trouble is, that's a lot more expense for the venue, the broadcasters/press and the teams.
Agree, but they are also the ones generating revenues. There needs to be a balance between maximizing revenues and providing fair competition and it looks like most of the time there are few voices to advocate for the riders and the "spirit of the sport".
It's a sports competition with athletes not a show with entertainers. Athletes are not being paid by broadcasters and hosts, they are actually paying to compete.
(You can argue that they have sponsors paying them to be broadcasted but I think we put too much value on this broadcast. These athletes have probably way more value at being likable and badass riders and being featured on websites, and videos than being a few minutes on a paid feed. Proof that many riders are being seen as valuable and sponsored without even racing or being on the broadcast)
“That’s racing”
while it sucks the best guys got screwed that’s nothing new. And sometimes it leads to the most memorable runs in the sport. Hill in champery. Gwin in msa. Assuming Finn doesn’t catch fire and win the overall loic’s run today could very well be the difference between him and Jackson.
They could’ve ran 30 second gaps and had both races over in an hr but then there wouldn’t been much of broadcast. They could also cut the field down but as a fan that’s the opposite of what I want. At least not without a semifinal to keep the series stocked with up and coming talent.
I think Greg summed it up best. Got lucky that day and been screwed over plenty of other times.
still not a fan of this track. Not enough technicality to separate the midfield. I was on snooze mode till Greg came down who was visibly faster in the middle of the track. Couldn’t see what thibault did in the bottom to get ahead of Greg.
Then the rain started and the race was obviously over very quick. Still massive props to loic to accomplish what he did.
Daprela is just lighter. That's what got him through the bomb holes at the bottom that a bigger rider would hang on.
At least last year top five overall are protected for finals plus the best five from this year which are not included in the last year protected riders, making only nine guys that are currently racing safe :/
So the weather helped those 30-60 they got points due to no semis
Only UCI Ranking points, not World Cup Overall points.
When there is semi finals 31-60 get zero UCI points but because they canceled the semis those riders who would have got zero points because they did not make it to finals got points.
For the guys ranked 31-60 in the standings, the UCI ranking points are probably more important than the World Cup points anyways. They definitely got lucky with that schedule change, but they shouldn't have to get lucky just to keep the points from a race run.
A 0.1s is so ridiculously small of a margin. Literally could have been decided by the air resistance of their go pro coming into the finishing line. Just goes to show you how far these guys are pushing the limits of the track and their equipment.
For anyone who hasn't seen it, Elliot's analysis on the latest Beyond The Line is worth a look.
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