Compared to those groomed freeride and big air slope events, the impression I got from watching the latest Hardline RAW was that it was a challenge even maintaining enough speed between jumps. At least at many of the air events the run-ups are generous.
@shredder_schroeder
I've also been a bit dubious about this whole thing over the last few days. For me, it's hard to let go of DH racing...
@shredder_schroeder
I've also been a bit dubious about this whole thing over the last few days. For me, it's hard to let go of DH racing once the season ends, and I get sucked into this event with way too much expectation. I've seen every edition of hardline (replays, then broadcast since 2018), but this year something in the back of the brain just doesn't agree with all the hype. So I looked up the race reports and put the data into a spreadsheet... nerdy yes, but no risk of a broken collarbone.
My conclusion is that it's not progressing the sport.
Including tomorrow's race (if everyone starts), there have only been 57 (!) participants in 8 editions. I didn't add nationalities to my chart but at first glance over 85% of these riders are GB/NZ/AU/CA... union jackked.
There have been five winners in 8 years. All of them from Great Britain.
The world's best racers do not come to this event:
Presuming everyone who rode qualifying today (including the DNSs and DNFs), and not counting tomorrow's four first-timers: 36% of Red Bull Hardline participants (20 out of 56 participants) in the now 8 editions of this "race" have NOT returned for a second time. This includes 3 world champions (Danny Hart, Loic Bruni, Reece Wilson) and 2 WC race winners (Mick Hannah and Brook MacDonald) . The only two riders have won a WC and participated at this event more than once are Gee Atherton (2x world champ) and Laurie Greenland.
The median number of participations per rider is 2 (out of eight). If we look at how many people are continuously trying to qualify week-in/week-out for an elite men's WC, this is totally out of touch with reality. Not-entering 75% of the total possible events isn't a realistic outcome for professional athletes. So, this is an event that favours daredevils, not racers.
Methinks this hardline business has been blown out of proportion. Marketing and publicity will get us all to believe that black is white and less is more.
Finally, everyone can say, "well, don't watch." Fair. But I do watch, because that's exactly what the organisers and athletes want need me to do, plus I'm interested in the content. If I (we) don't watch, they wouldn't be there. That's a fact.
But I'm at the point now where I'm going to stop watching this stuff. Happy for Jess Blewitt that she got to have fun and break her collarbone. More power to her. Happy they've bulldozed the line down a once insane, steep, remote hilltop in a land I've never been to. More power to 'em. But I don't resonate with it... I don't want to see anyone get hurt doing something they love, I don't want to see girls do shit that men with twice their body mass and bone density can't even handle. I don't ride flow trails, and I sure as shit don't contemplate 100 foot jumps. Best of luck to Red Bull, but they're not progressing me deeper into the sport.
Middle-aged man, who actually spends a boat-load of money on bikes, components, subscriptions, travel, and taxes... over and out.
Afterthought: I want my kids to watch WC DH and I encourage them to become world champions. That entails a lot of "boring, adult" stuff which is categorically denied or ignored at Hardline... starting and finishing the qualifying fun, for example...
"My conclusion is that it's not progressing the sport."
Which sport? Maybe not racing, but MTB, definately.
It is literally seeing how big and how far it is possible to go on a mountain bike.
It's the equivalent of snowsports and big chutes, and rampage, but judged by a clock, not a score-card
rough. for those who don't click the insta link, brannigan got blown by the wind on the on-off and crashed, breaking collarbone.
@eoin, just because someone...
rough. for those who don't click the insta link, brannigan got blown by the wind on the on-off and crashed, breaking collarbone.
@eoin, just because someone can't spell doesn't mean they should be banned : ) most of the replies are legit discussion.
For me it looked like he tried to manual the On-Off and lost his frontwheel.
@shredder_schroeder
I've also been a bit dubious about this whole thing over the last few days. For me, it's hard to let go of DH racing...
@shredder_schroeder
I've also been a bit dubious about this whole thing over the last few days. For me, it's hard to let go of DH racing once the season ends, and I get sucked into this event with way too much expectation. I've seen every edition of hardline (replays, then broadcast since 2018), but this year something in the back of the brain just doesn't agree with all the hype. So I looked up the race reports and put the data into a spreadsheet... nerdy yes, but no risk of a broken collarbone.
My conclusion is that it's not progressing the sport.
Including tomorrow's race (if everyone starts), there have only been 57 (!) participants in 8 editions. I didn't add nationalities to my chart but at first glance over 85% of these riders are GB/NZ/AU/CA... union jackked.
There have been five winners in 8 years. All of them from Great Britain.
The world's best racers do not come to this event:
Presuming everyone who rode qualifying today (including the DNSs and DNFs), and not counting tomorrow's four first-timers: 36% of Red Bull Hardline participants (20 out of 56 participants) in the now 8 editions of this "race" have NOT returned for a second time. This includes 3 world champions (Danny Hart, Loic Bruni, Reece Wilson) and 2 WC race winners (Mick Hannah and Brook MacDonald) . The only two riders have won a WC and participated at this event more than once are Gee Atherton (2x world champ) and Laurie Greenland.
The median number of participations per rider is 2 (out of eight). If we look at how many people are continuously trying to qualify week-in/week-out for an elite men's WC, this is totally out of touch with reality. Not-entering 75% of the total possible events isn't a realistic outcome for professional athletes. So, this is an event that favours daredevils, not racers.
Methinks this hardline business has been blown out of proportion. Marketing and publicity will get us all to believe that black is white and less is more.
Finally, everyone can say, "well, don't watch." Fair. But I do watch, because that's exactly what the organisers and athletes want need me to do, plus I'm interested in the content. If I (we) don't watch, they wouldn't be there. That's a fact.
But I'm at the point now where I'm going to stop watching this stuff. Happy for Jess Blewitt that she got to have fun and break her collarbone. More power to her. Happy they've bulldozed the line down a once insane, steep, remote hilltop in a land I've never been to. More power to 'em. But I don't resonate with it... I don't want to see anyone get hurt doing something they love, I don't want to see girls do shit that men with twice their body mass and bone density can't even handle. I don't ride flow trails, and I sure as shit don't contemplate 100 foot jumps. Best of luck to Red Bull, but they're not progressing me deeper into the sport.
Middle-aged man, who actually spends a boat-load of money on bikes, components, subscriptions, travel, and taxes... over and out.
Afterthought: I want my kids to watch WC DH and I encourage them to become world champions. That entails a lot of "boring, adult" stuff which is categorically denied or ignored at Hardline... starting and finishing the qualifying fun, for example...
What about Rampage ? Inviting all the time the same riders years after years ? New riders are invited regularly but not a lot are coming back after the first invite… And still, the media hype around it is way much bigger !
Just saying …
I think one of the most dangerous trends we're seeing are these quasi-mullet haircuts so many of these fellas are sporting. Sets a really bad example for the impressionable kids.
At least the French brigade and their trash-stache's aren't here and making this really inappropriate for children's eyes.
It seems lost on some here that the riders at Hardline are there because they want to be. None of them are being compelled to do anything they don't want to. Watch the vlogs available, they're stoked. If someone (such as Kolb) decides it's too much no one is throwing shade on them, their decisions are respected. If a feature is deemed unsafe it's immediately altered (which doesn't always happen at WCDH races). It amazes me how many people think they have a better idea than the riders themselves about what they should and shouldn't be riding. They know exactly what they're getting into and the risks involved.
It seems lost on some here that the riders at Hardline are there because they want to be. None of them are being compelled to do...
It seems lost on some here that the riders at Hardline are there because they want to be. None of them are being compelled to do anything they don't want to. Watch the vlogs available, they're stoked. If someone (such as Kolb) decides it's too much no one is throwing shade on them, their decisions are respected. If a feature is deemed unsafe it's immediately altered (which doesn't always happen at WCDH races). It amazes me how many people think they have a better idea than the riders themselves about what they should and shouldn't be riding. They know exactly what they're getting into and the risks involved.
I agree with this, but let's not pretend that these professional bike riders are out for a bit of fun, they are at work. Participating in Hardline, even just showing up and hitting one or two features, has tremendous value for their careers and that pressure is real - they are trying to make a living riding bikes, and in this case that may mean taking risks they would not otherwise take.
@shredder_schroeder
I've also been a bit dubious about this whole thing over the last few days. For me, it's hard to let go of DH racing...
@shredder_schroeder
I've also been a bit dubious about this whole thing over the last few days. For me, it's hard to let go of DH racing once the season ends, and I get sucked into this event with way too much expectation. I've seen every edition of hardline (replays, then broadcast since 2018), but this year something in the back of the brain just doesn't agree with all the hype. So I looked up the race reports and put the data into a spreadsheet... nerdy yes, but no risk of a broken collarbone.
My conclusion is that it's not progressing the sport.
Including tomorrow's race (if everyone starts), there have only been 57 (!) participants in 8 editions. I didn't add nationalities to my chart but at first glance over 85% of these riders are GB/NZ/AU/CA... union jackked.
There have been five winners in 8 years. All of them from Great Britain.
The world's best racers do not come to this event:
Presuming everyone who rode qualifying today (including the DNSs and DNFs), and not counting tomorrow's four first-timers: 36% of Red Bull Hardline participants (20 out of 56 participants) in the now 8 editions of this "race" have NOT returned for a second time. This includes 3 world champions (Danny Hart, Loic Bruni, Reece Wilson) and 2 WC race winners (Mick Hannah and Brook MacDonald) . The only two riders have won a WC and participated at this event more than once are Gee Atherton (2x world champ) and Laurie Greenland.
The median number of participations per rider is 2 (out of eight). If we look at how many people are continuously trying to qualify week-in/week-out for an elite men's WC, this is totally out of touch with reality. Not-entering 75% of the total possible events isn't a realistic outcome for professional athletes. So, this is an event that favours daredevils, not racers.
Methinks this hardline business has been blown out of proportion. Marketing and publicity will get us all to believe that black is white and less is more.
Finally, everyone can say, "well, don't watch." Fair. But I do watch, because that's exactly what the organisers and athletes want need me to do, plus I'm interested in the content. If I (we) don't watch, they wouldn't be there. That's a fact.
But I'm at the point now where I'm going to stop watching this stuff. Happy for Jess Blewitt that she got to have fun and break her collarbone. More power to her. Happy they've bulldozed the line down a once insane, steep, remote hilltop in a land I've never been to. More power to 'em. But I don't resonate with it... I don't want to see anyone get hurt doing something they love, I don't want to see girls do shit that men with twice their body mass and bone density can't even handle. I don't ride flow trails, and I sure as shit don't contemplate 100 foot jumps. Best of luck to Red Bull, but they're not progressing me deeper into the sport.
Middle-aged man, who actually spends a boat-load of money on bikes, components, subscriptions, travel, and taxes... over and out.
Afterthought: I want my kids to watch WC DH and I encourage them to become world champions. That entails a lot of "boring, adult" stuff which is categorically denied or ignored at Hardline... starting and finishing the qualifying fun, for example...
I agree with some of your opinions, but not all of them; thank you for the EXCELLENT layman’s journalism. This was a good read.
Opinions aside though, and going off some of your stats: Jackson Goldstone is the youngest winner, the first non-Brit, and the first person to win on their first go (if you don’t count Danny, who won the first ever). Also, and I didn’t look this one up, is that not also the fastest time down that hill? Can an Atherton or someone Atherton-adjacent confirm this?
In conclusion, I think it safe to assume Goldstone is officially a threat to all. SEVEN SECONDS. That is a statement.
I have definite qualms (age is decreasing my risk tolerance big time for myself and others) with events like Hardline and Rampage. No doubt. Rampage especially. I certainly still enjoy watching them though. As long as they are given lots of time to practice, invite only those that have a good chance of making it down in one piece, and they postpone the event on windy days, I still see the value in it.
Jackson. Wow. Crazy how easy he made it look. Even if Bernard and others had put down a perfect run, I don't see anyone getting close to him. That was master-class.
Can't wait for DH racing next year. (guess they've found one guy who'll pay for the livestream)
It seems lost on some here that the riders at Hardline are there because they want to be. None of them are being compelled to do...
It seems lost on some here that the riders at Hardline are there because they want to be. None of them are being compelled to do anything they don't want to. Watch the vlogs available, they're stoked. If someone (such as Kolb) decides it's too much no one is throwing shade on them, their decisions are respected. If a feature is deemed unsafe it's immediately altered (which doesn't always happen at WCDH races). It amazes me how many people think they have a better idea than the riders themselves about what they should and shouldn't be riding. They know exactly what they're getting into and the risks involved.
I agree with this, but let's not pretend that these professional bike riders are out for a bit of fun, they are at work. Participating in...
I agree with this, but let's not pretend that these professional bike riders are out for a bit of fun, they are at work. Participating in Hardline, even just showing up and hitting one or two features, has tremendous value for their careers and that pressure is real - they are trying to make a living riding bikes, and in this case that may mean taking risks they would not otherwise take.
You would have a point if Hardline were mandatory to make a career in MTB but there are many different routes someone can take to make a career out of riding. Sure they may be "at work" but that work is still a choice. Even if it was in their contracts that they had to compete in Hardline, signing that contract is still a choice. Josh Bryceland is a great example of this, although his reasons were environmental rather than danger, when he realized he didn't agree with the direction of WCDH he pulled out and found another way to make a living riding his mountain bike.
This is a dumb topic, this track was built by riders that like to take it far and it’s invitational only. BK during the track walk was saying how they are making easier by making it like a highway and less techy.
It seems lost on some here that the riders at Hardline are there because they want to be. None of them are being compelled to do...
It seems lost on some here that the riders at Hardline are there because they want to be. None of them are being compelled to do anything they don't want to. Watch the vlogs available, they're stoked. If someone (such as Kolb) decides it's too much no one is throwing shade on them, their decisions are respected. If a feature is deemed unsafe it's immediately altered (which doesn't always happen at WCDH races). It amazes me how many people think they have a better idea than the riders themselves about what they should and shouldn't be riding. They know exactly what they're getting into and the risks involved.
I agree with this, but let's not pretend that these professional bike riders are out for a bit of fun, they are at work. Participating in...
I agree with this, but let's not pretend that these professional bike riders are out for a bit of fun, they are at work. Participating in Hardline, even just showing up and hitting one or two features, has tremendous value for their careers and that pressure is real - they are trying to make a living riding bikes, and in this case that may mean taking risks they would not otherwise take.
Check the rampage injury list since 2015. It’s gone down tremendously, and the scale/exposure has gotten way gnarlier. Graham had the one massive crash where he missed the landing. 2016 was when the new format came into place at behest of the riders, after the 2015 shit show where the riders were being treated like expendable product for entertainment.
That’s not a vibe I’ve ever gotten from hardline where it’s a rider founded and operated event. I’ve never been to hardline, but I attended rampage 8 years straight as a digger for 5yr and media 2yr. Poached my first year in 2010. The vibe there changed immensely in 2016. I personally feel calmer and more confident at the venue during the week, than at home watching on TV where you only see the end result of everybody’s time. The calmness and comradery throughout the week is real. Hardline gives me the same impression personally. Nobody is forced to ride either of the events, they are there on their own accord. You think Kolb is gonna lose sponsors or get some asterisk next to his name for dropping out? His career sky rocketed this year, stepping down from hardline isn’t going to affect his career one bit. Just as riding it wouldn’t have elevated it any more. Jackson may gain some more clout for winning, but it’s not something his career needed. He’s already proven to everyone how solid of a rider he is and the potential threat he’ll be coming into the next few years, he was there for fun and gets to end the race season with a statement.
@Roots_rider, amen! I dared to say on Pinkbike that I had doubts about Junior riders getting at the start of such an event, you know what happens there.
Jackson's win shows he was ready for the Hardline, but if it did go wrong, what are the implications for his future? He has a hell of a career ahead of him, that was a bit early to get into this.
As said by someone else here, no one push anyone to get into it and Dan Atherton has enough experience in racing and shaping to try to limit the risk as low as possible. The difference between pushing the limits and getting beyond them is very narrow, Youngsters could maybe not have the maturity to get the level of difficulty and involvement Hardline request.
Personally I found hardline a bit contrived this time. Timed fest'ish jumps with mudpits in between. Few brave enough world cup dh riders aeons faster than the rest. Jumps so big everyone has to take them super safe giving not much opportunity for personal flair.
world cup dh and rampage are way more entertaining for me tbh
For me Hardline feels like the mates races that we did when we were younger. We build jumps, steep lines etc. that scared us, then helped/encouraged each other until (nearly) everybody hit them. Finally, we timed ourselves on this track for bragging rights. Hardline fells the same to me, just on a way bigger scale (jumps, organization and marketing).
I have less of an issue with Hardline as I do with rampage. The guys/ladies "racing" hardline are mostly WC DH guys that choose to rider here and are paid to race WC and do this as a side thing. Also watching the riders and watching their Youtube videos they genuinely seem stoked to ride there and are struggling with the wet woods sections more than the large stunts/jumps.
Rampage is slightly different because there is no bigger event for the Freeride guys/ladies and I would bet a lot of their sponsorship dollars are based on them showing up to Rampage and going as big as possible.
Edit. I should also note that these are grown adults (for the most part) showing up to these events and they are the ones making their own decisions and are well aware of the negative outcomes. Just because we are not comfortable with the level of risk they take doesn't mean they should be restricted.
Hardline seems less dangerous on the whole than rampage. I mean they're both super gnarly, the features themselves are comparable. But the most dangerous thing for both is guinea pigging new jumps. Hardline has fewer new features than a typical rampage. Once the proper speed for a jump/drop is established then the rest of the hardline field can be towed in. In rampage it's rare for a given line to be shared by more than two.
One thing I liked seeing was that airbag on the on/off feature in practice. And a lot of crash pads on rocks etc. Seems like that type of thing is something that could be expanded/improved upon for wcdh.
Which sport? Maybe not racing, but MTB, definately.
It is literally seeing how big and how far it is possible to go on a mountain bike.
It's the equivalent of snowsports and big chutes, and rampage, but judged by a clock, not a score-card
Just saying …
At least the French brigade and their trash-stache's aren't here and making this really inappropriate for children's eyes.
Opinions aside though, and going off some of your stats: Jackson Goldstone is the youngest winner, the first non-Brit, and the first person to win on their first go (if you don’t count Danny, who won the first ever). Also, and I didn’t look this one up, is that not also the fastest time down that hill? Can an Atherton or someone Atherton-adjacent confirm this?
In conclusion, I think it safe to assume Goldstone is officially a threat to all. SEVEN SECONDS. That is a statement.
Jackson. Wow. Crazy how easy he made it look. Even if Bernard and others had put down a perfect run, I don't see anyone getting close to him. That was master-class.
Can't wait for DH racing next year. (guess they've found one guy who'll pay for the livestream)
That’s not a vibe I’ve ever gotten from hardline where it’s a rider founded and operated event. I’ve never been to hardline, but I attended rampage 8 years straight as a digger for 5yr and media 2yr. Poached my first year in 2010. The vibe there changed immensely in 2016. I personally feel calmer and more confident at the venue during the week, than at home watching on TV where you only see the end result of everybody’s time. The calmness and comradery throughout the week is real. Hardline gives me the same impression personally. Nobody is forced to ride either of the events, they are there on their own accord. You think Kolb is gonna lose sponsors or get some asterisk next to his name for dropping out? His career sky rocketed this year, stepping down from hardline isn’t going to affect his career one bit. Just as riding it wouldn’t have elevated it any more. Jackson may gain some more clout for winning, but it’s not something his career needed. He’s already proven to everyone how solid of a rider he is and the potential threat he’ll be coming into the next few years, he was there for fun and gets to end the race season with a statement.
Jackson's win shows he was ready for the Hardline, but if it did go wrong, what are the implications for his future? He has a hell of a career ahead of him, that was a bit early to get into this.
As said by someone else here, no one push anyone to get into it and Dan Atherton has enough experience in racing and shaping to try to limit the risk as low as possible. The difference between pushing the limits and getting beyond them is very narrow, Youngsters could maybe not have the maturity to get the level of difficulty and involvement Hardline request.
world cup dh and rampage are way more entertaining for me tbh
Rampage is slightly different because there is no bigger event for the Freeride guys/ladies and I would bet a lot of their sponsorship dollars are based on them showing up to Rampage and going as big as possible.
Edit. I should also note that these are grown adults (for the most part) showing up to these events and they are the ones making their own decisions and are well aware of the negative outcomes. Just because we are not comfortable with the level of risk they take doesn't mean they should be restricted.
One thing I liked seeing was that airbag on the on/off feature in practice. And a lot of crash pads on rocks etc. Seems like that type of thing is something that could be expanded/improved upon for wcdh.
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