Relating to WAO : back in the day when Evil bikes started making a chainguide and other components, they created the e.thirteen brand to separate that business from their bike line.
Probably to mitigate the aftermarket issue WAO is dealing with.
I think one of the things that's most difficult for consumers, and even inside the bike industry pro-sumers to understand is how difficult and expensive the...
I think one of the things that's most difficult for consumers, and even inside the bike industry pro-sumers to understand is how difficult and expensive the tolerances are for mountain biking products. This is likely the other big factor in the cost gap and perception gap between moto parts and full vehicle costs (other than the other large one that is economics of scale). Any time you are specifying a tolerances that is tighter then +/- 1mm, things start costing way more, and the amount of suppliers that are capable/willing of taking that on plummet. Beyond that, the amount of people that are capable of doing that, at a reasonable volume with the proper qa/qc, plummet even further.
For example, Just from my own experience replacing sliding bushings on moto forks, It's immediately obvious that the stanchion and bushing tolerances are on a completely different planet. I'd venture to guess that you could have .5 - 1mm more bushing clearance on a moto without perceiving bushing knock.
You make a great point about tolerances and the complexity behind mountain biking products! Similar to the reviews I've seen on PissedConsumer regarding consumer awareness of these engineering complexities, it's not always easy for the average user to understand the level of precision and specialized expertise required. Many consumers don’t realize how much precision affects costs. And it's true that quality control plays a huge role.
Relating to WAO : back in the day when Evil bikes started making a chainguide and other components, they created the e.thirteen brand to separate that...
Relating to WAO : back in the day when Evil bikes started making a chainguide and other components, they created the e.thirteen brand to separate that business from their bike line.
Probably to mitigate the aftermarket issue WAO is dealing with.
Relating to WAO : back in the day when Evil bikes started making a chainguide and other components, they created the e.thirteen brand to separate that...
Relating to WAO : back in the day when Evil bikes started making a chainguide and other components, they created the e.thirteen brand to separate that business from their bike line.
Probably to mitigate the aftermarket issue WAO is dealing with.
yes, although that is new colors, udh and the integrated trunnion spacers in the linkage, so, still same bike.i'd love to see what's next, i feel...
yes, although that is new colors, udh and the integrated trunnion spacers in the linkage, so, still same bike.
i'd love to see what's next, i feel they could tweak the geo a tad to make it more fresh, cause the bikes ride like nothing else already!
I miss my red Imperial. It was a product of it's time.
Evil heavily implied the latest blowout pricing wasn't a going out of business event, it was a clearing inventory for new models event. There was also a rumor of them testing some 'different' looking bikes about a year ago, so seems likely they'll have something more than a refresh to share. The last few generations have been pretty incremental improvements on a theme that is somewhat dated.
A longer rear end, steeper seat tube angle, taller stack Offering would be right up my alley.
I miss my red Imperial. It was a product of it's time. Evil heavily implied the latest blowout pricing wasn't a going out of business event, it...
I miss my red Imperial. It was a product of it's time.
Evil heavily implied the latest blowout pricing wasn't a going out of business event, it was a clearing inventory for new models event. There was also a rumor of them testing some 'different' looking bikes about a year ago, so seems likely they'll have something more than a refresh to share. The last few generations have been pretty incremental improvements on a theme that is somewhat dated.
A longer rear end, steeper seat tube angle, taller stack Offering would be right up my alley.
The future of Superboost comments goes here:
I kick off the superboost comments, it can indeed without a doubt, F off.
I miss my red Imperial. It was a product of it's time. Evil heavily implied the latest blowout pricing wasn't a going out of business event, it...
I miss my red Imperial. It was a product of it's time.
Evil heavily implied the latest blowout pricing wasn't a going out of business event, it was a clearing inventory for new models event. There was also a rumor of them testing some 'different' looking bikes about a year ago, so seems likely they'll have something more than a refresh to share. The last few generations have been pretty incremental improvements on a theme that is somewhat dated.
A longer rear end, steeper seat tube angle, taller stack Offering would be right up my alley.
The future of Superboost comments goes here:
I have a nice wheelset so I don’t care if the superboost stays honestly, although I hope they stick with the short chainstay at least on small and medium sizes, perhaps with a chip to make it longer if people want to
And stick with delta. As that’s what makes Evil bikes awesome to ride
TBF and only slightly derail the thread, I did the same to my Kona Chute while the Z1 was waiting on parts. It was stupid, it was fun, it was stupid fun.
I miss my red Imperial. It was a product of it's time. Evil heavily implied the latest blowout pricing wasn't a going out of business event, it...
I miss my red Imperial. It was a product of it's time.
Evil heavily implied the latest blowout pricing wasn't a going out of business event, it was a clearing inventory for new models event. There was also a rumor of them testing some 'different' looking bikes about a year ago, so seems likely they'll have something more than a refresh to share. The last few generations have been pretty incremental improvements on a theme that is somewhat dated.
A longer rear end, steeper seat tube angle, taller stack Offering would be right up my alley.
I have a nice wheelset so I don’t care if the superboost stays honestly, although I hope they stick with the short chainstay at least on...
I have a nice wheelset so I don’t care if the superboost stays honestly, although I hope they stick with the short chainstay at least on small and medium sizes, perhaps with a chip to make it longer if people want to
And stick with delta. As that’s what makes Evil bikes awesome to ride
Let see hopefully sooner than later
Meh, delta link is just linkage ratio manipulation through the dual link system. It created a well crafted LR and progression that was better than most when it came out. Lots of bikes have identical or similar to LR curves now a days. Otherwise it was a single pivot, with inherent design compromises that came from the pivot location. There is a reason his newer systems use dual links, being able to tailor the AS and AR separate from the wheel path, at least IMO as an mech engineer…
FWIW: I’ve never spoken to him, it’s just my opinion based on the design progression over the years.
Meh, delta link is just linkage ratio manipulation through the dual link system. It created a well crafted LR and progression that was better than most...
Meh, delta link is just linkage ratio manipulation through the dual link system. It created a well crafted LR and progression that was better than most when it came out. Lots of bikes have identical or similar to LR curves now a days. Otherwise it was a single pivot, with inherent design compromises that came from the pivot location. There is a reason his newer systems use dual links, being able to tailor the AS and AR separate from the wheel path, at least IMO as an mech engineer…
FWIW: I’ve never spoken to him, it’s just my opinion based on the design progression over the years.
meh, is what i feel when riding plenty of other bikes vs Evil, which, is not the best, and not the one everyone will like, of course, but nothing rides the same, for good or bad it does not matter, i'm aware it's just a linkage driven single pivot, but they've done a hell of a job with it, and to this day i still think it's great despite all the good stuff that came out in the recent years.
Meh, delta link is just linkage ratio manipulation through the dual link system. It created a well crafted LR and progression that was better than most...
Meh, delta link is just linkage ratio manipulation through the dual link system. It created a well crafted LR and progression that was better than most when it came out. Lots of bikes have identical or similar to LR curves now a days. Otherwise it was a single pivot, with inherent design compromises that came from the pivot location. There is a reason his newer systems use dual links, being able to tailor the AS and AR separate from the wheel path, at least IMO as an mech engineer…
FWIW: I’ve never spoken to him, it’s just my opinion based on the design progression over the years.
DW link came out way before the Delta Link which I’m pretty sure is exclusive to Evil.
Again referencing Page’s podcast Weagle says he can get the same kinematic and ride characteristics that he can with DW.
FYI he offered his latest design to the Atherton’s before Pivot took it up.
Sounds like he has some cool things in the works too
Meh, delta link is just linkage ratio manipulation through the dual link system. It created a well crafted LR and progression that was better than most...
Meh, delta link is just linkage ratio manipulation through the dual link system. It created a well crafted LR and progression that was better than most when it came out. Lots of bikes have identical or similar to LR curves now a days. Otherwise it was a single pivot, with inherent design compromises that came from the pivot location. There is a reason his newer systems use dual links, being able to tailor the AS and AR separate from the wheel path, at least IMO as an mech engineer…
FWIW: I’ve never spoken to him, it’s just my opinion based on the design progression over the years.
I miss my red Imperial. It was a product of it's time. Evil heavily implied the latest blowout pricing wasn't a going out of business event, it...
I miss my red Imperial. It was a product of it's time.
Evil heavily implied the latest blowout pricing wasn't a going out of business event, it was a clearing inventory for new models event. There was also a rumor of them testing some 'different' looking bikes about a year ago, so seems likely they'll have something more than a refresh to share. The last few generations have been pretty incremental improvements on a theme that is somewhat dated.
A longer rear end, steeper seat tube angle, taller stack Offering would be right up my alley.
I have a nice wheelset so I don’t care if the superboost stays honestly, although I hope they stick with the short chainstay at least on...
I have a nice wheelset so I don’t care if the superboost stays honestly, although I hope they stick with the short chainstay at least on small and medium sizes, perhaps with a chip to make it longer if people want to
And stick with delta. As that’s what makes Evil bikes awesome to ride
Meh, delta link is just linkage ratio manipulation through the dual link system. It created a well crafted LR and progression that was better than most...
Meh, delta link is just linkage ratio manipulation through the dual link system. It created a well crafted LR and progression that was better than most when it came out. Lots of bikes have identical or similar to LR curves now a days. Otherwise it was a single pivot, with inherent design compromises that came from the pivot location. There is a reason his newer systems use dual links, being able to tailor the AS and AR separate from the wheel path, at least IMO as an mech engineer…
FWIW: I’ve never spoken to him, it’s just my opinion based on the design progression over the years.
AS and AR can be tuned with a single pivot, either use a split pivot like Trek, or use an idler pulley and a floating brake mount. Using those you can achieve pretty much any AR and AS levels and curves. Now this is a hot take but I feel like we are nearing the end of the low AR BS trend as people will realise that it actually doesn't do anything positive for 98% of the riders out there, while high AR make a bike calmer in sketchy situations. If/When this happen, single pivot will definitely get a second look as they allow good AR levels without resorting to crazy high AS levels (Gambler, Summum for example).
Relating to WAO : back in the day when Evil bikes started making a chainguide and other components, they created the e.thirteen brand to separate that business from their bike line.
Probably to mitigate the aftermarket issue WAO is dealing with.
According to Dave Weagle they changed the name because Santa Cruz couldn’t spec them on their team bikes with the EVIL logo.
Have a listen to Nigel Page’s “Stay on Your Bike” podcast with him. It’s a good listen
You make a great point about tolerances and the complexity behind mountain biking products! Similar to the reviews I've seen on PissedConsumer regarding consumer awareness of these engineering complexities, it's not always easy for the average user to understand the level of precision and specialized expertise required. Many consumers don’t realize how much precision affects costs. And it's true that quality control plays a huge role.
E13 was created by Evil bikes? Dafaq?!?!?! O_o
Well, Dave Weagle started both initially before selling them off.
I think they gave the components a different name as they also made these at the same time.
https://p.vitalmtb.com/styles/full_size_1600/s3/photos/users/52061/setup_checks/121741/IMG_4459.JPG?VersionId=7ihTv.3nNSaEJidIjzgFvwGOx72dunnU&itok=b0wgoXc7
Wouldn't want to be associated with those monstrosity either.
When did Evil last release a new bike? been a while hasn't it?
They updated the Following, Offering and Wreckoning for UDH (LS models) around 18 months ago.
yes, although that is new colors, udh and the integrated trunnion spacers in the linkage, so, still same bike.
i'd love to see what's next, i feel they could tweak the geo a tad to make it more fresh, cause the bikes ride like nothing else already!
I bought a Sovereign (it was terrible).
I miss my red Imperial. It was a product of it's time.
Evil heavily implied the latest blowout pricing wasn't a going out of business event, it was a clearing inventory for new models event. There was also a rumor of them testing some 'different' looking bikes about a year ago, so seems likely they'll have something more than a refresh to share. The last few generations have been pretty incremental improvements on a theme that is somewhat dated.
A longer rear end, steeper seat tube angle, taller stack Offering would be right up my alley.
The future of Superboost comments goes here:
I kick off the superboost comments, it can indeed without a doubt, F off.
26/24 micro mullet was the shit, that was the only bike I could ever really manual...
If you don’t think of Evil and E.13 (named after a police precinct in Boston) as Maine-based companies, you probably aren’t in your mid 40’s, ahaha.
BOS is apparently poised to make a major push back into the MTB market, they have refreshed their entire range of products - it all drops on November 11 but here's the info already: https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/bos-suspension-launches-bos….
Anyone else notice the bike Semenuk rode in rampage wasn’t just a gen 5 slash? Looks nice IMO
I think its custom made just for him. They call it the Trek Sesh. I think i remember seeing a bit of a bike check on it.
He had that mule last year, too, didn’t he?
(judged events don’t belong in mountain biking)
I have a nice wheelset so I don’t care if the superboost stays honestly, although I hope they stick with the short chainstay at least on small and medium sizes, perhaps with a chip to make it longer if people want to
And stick with delta. As that’s what makes Evil bikes awesome to ride
Let see hopefully sooner than later
TBF and only slightly derail the thread, I did the same to my Kona Chute while the Z1 was waiting on parts. It was stupid, it was fun, it was stupid fun.
Will they still have the terrible customer service and poor parts availability that we grew to love back in their first foray? Time will tell!
and their second foray
Meh, delta link is just linkage ratio manipulation through the dual link system. It created a well crafted LR and progression that was better than most when it came out. Lots of bikes have identical or similar to LR curves now a days. Otherwise it was a single pivot, with inherent design compromises that came from the pivot location. There is a reason his newer systems use dual links, being able to tailor the AS and AR separate from the wheel path, at least IMO as an mech engineer…
FWIW: I’ve never spoken to him, it’s just my opinion based on the design progression over the years.
meh, is what i feel when riding plenty of other bikes vs Evil, which, is not the best, and not the one everyone will like, of course, but nothing rides the same, for good or bad it does not matter, i'm aware it's just a linkage driven single pivot, but they've done a hell of a job with it, and to this day i still think it's great despite all the good stuff that came out in the recent years.
DW link came out way before the Delta Link which I’m pretty sure is exclusive to Evil.
Again referencing Page’s podcast Weagle says he can get the same kinematic and ride characteristics that he can with DW.
FYI he offered his latest design to the Atherton’s before Pivot took it up.
Sounds like he has some cool things in the works too
The same kinematic, as in the same AS and AR? Is that actually what he said?
AS and AR can be tuned with a single pivot, either use a split pivot like Trek, or use an idler pulley and a floating brake mount. Using those you can achieve pretty much any AR and AS levels and curves. Now this is a hot take but I feel like we are nearing the end of the low AR BS trend as people will realise that it actually doesn't do anything positive for 98% of the riders out there, while high AR make a bike calmer in sketchy situations. If/When this happen, single pivot will definitely get a second look as they allow good AR levels without resorting to crazy high AS levels (Gambler, Summum for example).
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