Fox also showed this reverse arch with their gravel fork. It makes a lot of sense to put the arch at the back but I believe manitou had a patent which should be expiring/expired soon…
Fox also showed this reverse arch with their gravel fork. It makes a lot of sense to put the arch at the back but I believe...
Fox also showed this reverse arch with their gravel fork. It makes a lot of sense to put the arch at the back but I believe manitou had a patent which should be expiring/expired soon…
Something doesnt look right, but I dont know enough about photoshop to detail it.
So you screen shotted this from their Strava?
Which Pro?
The black lines or shading on the front of the stanchion, with the light coloured highlight where I'd expect to see the arch seems weird. So does the grass right in front of the fork, just something about it doesnt look right to me. This would be a big departure, and a complete redesign of the fork to optomise it.
I could never get into the look of the reverse arch, I'm sure I'm not the only one. Manitou makes some good forks, and I think their insistence on the RA is partially what has let them fall behind.
Fox also showed this reverse arch with their gravel fork. It makes a lot of sense to put the arch at the back but I believe...
Fox also showed this reverse arch with their gravel fork. It makes a lot of sense to put the arch at the back but I believe manitou had a patent which should be expiring/expired soon…
And can cause a lot of clearance problems with the frames...
Bolt on BB is a great way to manipulate your Front/Rear center ratio while not changing much else and really isolate the effect of said ratio...
Bolt on BB is a great way to manipulate your Front/Rear center ratio while not changing much else and really isolate the effect of said ratio and basically CS length. Great for a test mule but could also be nice to see on a commercially available bike.
unfortunately its very unlikely to release a bike with that, its simply way too heavy and too costly to manufacture. The best we could hope for...
unfortunately its very unlikely to release a bike with that, its simply way too heavy and too costly to manufacture. The best we could hope for is an oversized BB fitted with eccentric cups that can be used to adjust, much simply, lighter and cheaper at mass production
That would be really fun to play with. Bb cups, chainstay flip chip for short and long, headset adjustable cups.
But what % of...
That would be really fun to play with. Bb cups, chainstay flip chip for short and long, headset adjustable cups.
But what % of buyers would actually try different settings?
Regarding the Mondraker removable BB shell, I think they should sell it! This is a balancing act for product managers everywhere- give the people the freedom to adjust their bikes and allow them to make their bikes feel alternately great or terrible, or narrow their options and minimize how bad they can make it to assure a pretty solid experience for most users. I get it for trail bikes, but downhill bikes are already such a niche customer and low volume bike anyway.
Why not go for it and give your five DH customers a year the ability to go for it and tweak their bikes? I would make everything 3 settings so you can have "normal" settings in the middle and wild settings on either end. Pretty easy to tell customers to start with "normal" and tweak from there as desired. That's what suspension setup charts recommend- start in the middle and adjust as needed. Short/normal/long options for chainstays and headset/reach, low/normal/high options for BB height/shock progression, and front/normal/back options for BB location with the modular BB. I fear the eccentric BB would make fitting chainguides a nightmare.
Regarding the Mondraker removable BB shell, I think they should sell it! This is a balancing act for product managers everywhere- give the people the freedom...
Regarding the Mondraker removable BB shell, I think they should sell it! This is a balancing act for product managers everywhere- give the people the freedom to adjust their bikes and allow them to make their bikes feel alternately great or terrible, or narrow their options and minimize how bad they can make it to assure a pretty solid experience for most users. I get it for trail bikes, but downhill bikes are already such a niche customer and low volume bike anyway.
Why not go for it and give your five DH customers a year the ability to go for it and tweak their bikes? I would make everything 3 settings so you can have "normal" settings in the middle and wild settings on either end. Pretty easy to tell customers to start with "normal" and tweak from there as desired. That's what suspension setup charts recommend- start in the middle and adjust as needed. Short/normal/long options for chainstays and headset/reach, low/normal/high options for BB height/shock progression, and front/normal/back options for BB location with the modular BB. I fear the eccentric BB would make fitting chainguides a nightmare.
Regarding the chain guide, most wc racers don't seem to run lower guides unless they have to because high pivot wizardry, adjusting just the top guide should be all that's needed as you could run slightly bigger bash guard to cover chain ring in all positions (or change between bigger and smaller one if you are perfectionist,just two bolts typically so no big deal either)
That would really help Manitou out, as they've got a better damper than Fox or Rockshox. Their stuff might not be as light, but it might get more adjusted to that reverse arch again.
Fox also showed this reverse arch with their gravel fork. It makes a lot of sense to put the arch at the back but I believe...
Fox also showed this reverse arch with their gravel fork. It makes a lot of sense to put the arch at the back but I believe manitou had a patent which should be expiring/expired soon…
Seems it expired two years ago which was just before the fox gravel fork came out. I wonder if we start to see more going forward?
Finn and Loic’s Prototype Demos really standout to me as far the most composed looking bikes. Could possibly be that they both have similar riding styles or maybe it’s the bike?
Finn and Loic’s Prototype Demos really standout to me as far the most composed looking bikes. Could possibly be that they both have similar riding styles...
Finn and Loic’s Prototype Demos really standout to me as far the most composed looking bikes. Could possibly be that they both have similar riding styles or maybe it’s the bike?
You can see with the suspension bottomed the linkage running under the bb. To me, looks like an ancilotti-style linkage is hidden, combined with the visible seatstay pivots.
Finn and Loic’s Prototype Demos really standout to me as far the most composed looking bikes. Could possibly be that they both have similar riding styles...
Finn and Loic’s Prototype Demos really standout to me as far the most composed looking bikes. Could possibly be that they both have similar riding styles or maybe it’s the bike?
Their suspension is more composed than the other teams, as Ohlins have no issue giving them whatever they ask for, whereas all the other teams (Fox and Rockshox) have to run stock product and only adjust pressure, damping clicks etc. So Ohlins can run lots of damping with custom tuning, whereas everyone else can just max out the clicks. Thats why every dialed video Jordi is just like, err have you tried running more pressure? (Fox forks in generally use the spring to provide support instead of more damping, and therefore look lest composed), I'm not saying which setup is faster though.
You can see with the suspension bottomed the linkage running under the bb. To me, looks like an ancilotti-style linkage is hidden, combined with the visible...
You can see with the suspension bottomed the linkage running under the bb. To me, looks like an ancilotti-style linkage is hidden, combined with the visible seatstay pivots.
That silver link is much shorter than I was previously thinking. This is likely way more progressive than the real deal but I updated my older guess to shorten the 'pull' link and move the linkage pivot to concentric with the BB (which to me is the only option that makes sense given the super short link). I did this in a hurry so it's not very accurate even to that photo, but I found it interesting more as a proof of concept since this general shape of the leverage curve is considered 'desirable' by lots of people but hasn't been used by Specialized before.
Their suspension is more composed than the other teams, as Ohlins have no issue giving them whatever they ask for, whereas all the other teams (Fox and...
Their suspension is more composed than the other teams, as Ohlins have no issue giving them whatever they ask for, whereas all the other teams (Fox and Rockshox) have to run stock product and only adjust pressure, damping clicks etc. So Ohlins can run lots of damping with custom tuning, whereas everyone else can just max out the clicks. Thats why every dialed video Jordi is just like, err have you tried running more pressure? (Fox forks in generally use the spring to provide support instead of more damping, and therefore look lest composed), I'm not saying which setup is faster though.
While Loic and Finn's bikes are indeed oddly glued to the ground, to say that Fox and RS can only offer clicky adjustments is just not true. Fox offers multiple tune options on rear shocks to athletes and custom ones to the top athletes (most notably Greg). RS does the same.
While Loic and Finn's bikes are indeed oddly glued to the ground, to say that Fox and RS can only offer clicky adjustments is just not...
While Loic and Finn's bikes are indeed oddly glued to the ground, to say that Fox and RS can only offer clicky adjustments is just not true. Fox offers multiple tune options on rear shocks to athletes and custom ones to the top athletes (most notably Greg). RS does the same.
Same thing. Both use shim stacks and you can tune those pretty much to your hearts content (staying withing the limitations of stack height and shim stack charscteridtics of course...).
I wonder if we'll ever see a spool valve shock on mountain bikes before the Multimatic patent runs out...
Same thing. Both use shim stacks and you can tune those pretty much to your hearts content (staying withing the limitations of stack height and shim...
Same thing. Both use shim stacks and you can tune those pretty much to your hearts content (staying withing the limitations of stack height and shim stack charscteridtics of course...).
I wonder if we'll ever see a spool valve shock on mountain bikes before the Multimatic patent runs out...
Hm, as far as I know, both charger 3 and grip 2 vvc are highly problematic from tuning standpoint.
Forks also less often require tuning or revalving because they are all used in the same manner - there isn't a frame with the leverage ratio influencing the forces at the wheel, it's directly the spring and damper providing the force.
While Loic and Finn's bikes are indeed oddly glued to the ground, to say that Fox and RS can only offer clicky adjustments is just not...
While Loic and Finn's bikes are indeed oddly glued to the ground, to say that Fox and RS can only offer clicky adjustments is just not true. Fox offers multiple tune options on rear shocks to athletes and custom ones to the top athletes (most notably Greg). RS does the same.
My hunch is that Ohlins has taken more of a motocross approach to tuning the suspension, and have set aside resources to develop tunes/setups for Specialized’s riders and bikes. The impression I get for Fox and RS is that the sponsored teams are provided with a selection of their available stock tunes and maybe a weekend of testing with someone like Jordi. Let’s say the stock tunes don’t suite their needs, then of course they will try and come up with something better, especially for a team/rider on the pointy end of the results, however the resources to do it properly, probably are not there. I know a lot of speculation here but like I said just a hunch.
Nothing is stopping the top teams from buying telemetry equipment and finding an expert to work with to make custom tunes. It's not exactly rocket science I imagine, you mount the hardware, make some runs, see what is happening and what the rider says then fix the issues that present themselves. Shims are not hard to acquire, shimstactor is not particularly expensive and you make a custom tune... Apply and repeat the runs to see where you land at. It's something that should easily be done in a few day long riding camp. And servicing the suspension is also not rocket science, it's easily done by the team mechanic...
There are some motorsport series around now the use spec dampers for cost reasons. Not sure if that also covers damping tunes and/or adjustment ranges, but at first thought it seems much more restrictive than what is allowed with bikes.
(patiently waiting/hoping to see this pop up all over the rest of the internet)
Can’t wait for PB to post THAT photo 🤣🤣
What account was that on? interesting
Fox also showed this reverse arch with their gravel fork. It makes a lot of sense to put the arch at the back but I believe manitou had a patent which should be expiring/expired soon…
I think DT is reverse as well?
Magura be like MORE ARCHES
On a pros strava pic
Something doesnt look right, but I dont know enough about photoshop to detail it.
So you screen shotted this from their Strava?
Which Pro?
The black lines or shading on the front of the stanchion, with the light coloured highlight where I'd expect to see the arch seems weird. So does the grass right in front of the fork, just something about it doesnt look right to me. This would be a big departure, and a complete redesign of the fork to optomise it.
I could never get into the look of the reverse arch, I'm sure I'm not the only one. Manitou makes some good forks, and I think their insistence on the RA is partially what has let them fall behind.
I saw about 100 in lift line at Whistler looks pretty ready to me
Ibis' site is down, "internal servor error". Probably nothing but you never know.
And can cause a lot of clearance problems with the frames...
Regarding the Mondraker removable BB shell, I think they should sell it! This is a balancing act for product managers everywhere- give the people the freedom to adjust their bikes and allow them to make their bikes feel alternately great or terrible, or narrow their options and minimize how bad they can make it to assure a pretty solid experience for most users. I get it for trail bikes, but downhill bikes are already such a niche customer and low volume bike anyway.
Why not go for it and give your five DH customers a year the ability to go for it and tweak their bikes? I would make everything 3 settings so you can have "normal" settings in the middle and wild settings on either end. Pretty easy to tell customers to start with "normal" and tweak from there as desired. That's what suspension setup charts recommend- start in the middle and adjust as needed. Short/normal/long options for chainstays and headset/reach, low/normal/high options for BB height/shock progression, and front/normal/back options for BB location with the modular BB. I fear the eccentric BB would make fitting chainguides a nightmare.
Regarding the chain guide, most wc racers don't seem to run lower guides unless they have to because high pivot wizardry, adjusting just the top guide should be all that's needed as you could run slightly bigger bash guard to cover chain ring in all positions (or change between bigger and smaller one if you are perfectionist,just two bolts typically so no big deal either)
That would really help Manitou out, as they've got a better damper than Fox or Rockshox. Their stuff might not be as light, but it might get more adjusted to that reverse arch again.
Seems it expired two years ago which was just before the fox gravel fork came out. I wonder if we start to see more going forward?
https://patents.google.com/patent/US6607185B2/en
I would love that reverse arch 32 for my gravel bike. It keeps the mud/dust/rocks off the stanchions far more effectively than a standard fork.
I always dual fender my gravel bikes. What’s the point of gravel if you are too muddy to stop at a bar mid ride 😂
worlds bike abuse vid for studying and dissecting
Finn and Loic’s Prototype Demos really standout to me as far the most composed looking bikes. Could possibly be that they both have similar riding styles or maybe it’s the bike?
You can see with the suspension bottomed the linkage running under the bb. To me, looks like an ancilotti-style linkage is hidden, combined with the visible seatstay pivots.
Their suspension is more composed than the other teams, as Ohlins have no issue giving them whatever they ask for, whereas all the other teams (Fox and Rockshox) have to run stock product and only adjust pressure, damping clicks etc. So Ohlins can run lots of damping with custom tuning, whereas everyone else can just max out the clicks. Thats why every dialed video Jordi is just like, err have you tried running more pressure? (Fox forks in generally use the spring to provide support instead of more damping, and therefore look lest composed), I'm not saying which setup is faster though.
That silver link is much shorter than I was previously thinking. This is likely way more progressive than the real deal but I updated my older guess to shorten the 'pull' link and move the linkage pivot to concentric with the BB (which to me is the only option that makes sense given the super short link). I did this in a hurry so it's not very accurate even to that photo, but I found it interesting more as a proof of concept since this general shape of the leverage curve is considered 'desirable' by lots of people but hasn't been used by Specialized before.
While Loic and Finn's bikes are indeed oddly glued to the ground, to say that Fox and RS can only offer clicky adjustments is just not true. Fox offers multiple tune options on rear shocks to athletes and custom ones to the top athletes (most notably Greg). RS does the same.
What about forks?
Same thing. Both use shim stacks and you can tune those pretty much to your hearts content (staying withing the limitations of stack height and shim stack charscteridtics of course...).
I wonder if we'll ever see a spool valve shock on mountain bikes before the Multimatic patent runs out...
Hm, as far as I know, both charger 3 and grip 2 vvc are highly problematic from tuning standpoint.
Forks also less often require tuning or revalving because they are all used in the same manner - there isn't a frame with the leverage ratio influencing the forces at the wheel, it's directly the spring and damper providing the force.
My hunch is that Ohlins has taken more of a motocross approach to tuning the suspension, and have set aside resources to develop tunes/setups for Specialized’s riders and bikes. The impression I get for Fox and RS is that the sponsored teams are provided with a selection of their available stock tunes and maybe a weekend of testing with someone like Jordi. Let’s say the stock tunes don’t suite their needs, then of course they will try and come up with something better, especially for a team/rider on the pointy end of the results, however the resources to do it properly, probably are not there. I know a lot of speculation here but like I said just a hunch.
Nothing is stopping the top teams from buying telemetry equipment and finding an expert to work with to make custom tunes. It's not exactly rocket science I imagine, you mount the hardware, make some runs, see what is happening and what the rider says then fix the issues that present themselves. Shims are not hard to acquire, shimstactor is not particularly expensive and you make a custom tune... Apply and repeat the runs to see where you land at. It's something that should easily be done in a few day long riding camp. And servicing the suspension is also not rocket science, it's easily done by the team mechanic...
There are some motorsport series around now the use spec dampers for cost reasons. Not sure if that also covers damping tunes and/or adjustment ranges, but at first thought it seems much more restrictive than what is allowed with bikes.
Post a reply to: MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation