MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Primoz
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11/17/2022 9:40am Edited Date/Time 11/17/2022 10:10am
nsp234 wrote:
Could it be something else they're working on? They've had an insta post about a cheaper line, possibly made with subtractive manufacturing (hashtags hinted that way)...

Could it be something else they're working on? They've had an insta post about a cheaper line, possibly made with subtractive manufacturing (hashtags hinted that way). On the pic are parts which are clearly milled:

Big Bird wrote:

So perhaps cnc lugs instead of printed? You could put out a lot of cheaper bikes with a bank of mills running day and night.

Onawalk wrote:
Don’t get me wrong, I love CNC stuff, it usually comes out looking like jewelry.  But…..I prefer the idea of additive manufacturing to subtractive manufacturing.  Is...

Don’t get me wrong, I love CNC stuff, it usually comes out looking like jewelry.  But…..I prefer the idea of additive manufacturing to subtractive manufacturing.  Is it cheaper to have a bank of CNC mills to additive machines (honest question) I feel like their are more possibilities with additive manufacturing, but I could be wrong.

Gut feeling (haven't looked at the numbers) says yes. The amount of parts worldwide being made by machining operations, talking about big series stuff (automotive & co) is staggering. 3D printing is mostly used for marketing exercises in prototypes, concept cars and low volume products.

If you look at the dreambuild vide of the Atherton bike, where the complete process is shown, it's insane how much manual work is required for _ONE_ bike. And I've heard comments that the prices they charge for their frames are a steal given the technique used to manufacture the bikes.

As for double lap joints, I think the double lap joint could be avoided. After all, look at Faction Bike Studio: https://enduro-mtb.com/en/faction-bike-studio-visit/
In series production you need to ensure the correct application of glue, both the placement (all around the joint and along the length of it) and the quantity. With a double lap joint you insert the tube into a cavity with glue in it, which is pushed out and surrounds the tube, ensuring that. Gluing is usually done on two flat surfaces you can press together (windscreens into cars, 2 halves of a bike frame, etc. Not using a double lap joint could be averted by having a port in the outer tube near the hidden edge of the joint and having an O-ring (or something similar) sealing up the joint behind it, forcing the glue towards the outside edge and giving you good visual control over the quality of the glued joint.

Aluminium is also apparently a wonderful material to glue together, most Al cars these days are glued together, not welded. An example of that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ5lxms9xuw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0jXhOmL7Xg
I wouldn't be surprised if in the future having glued aluminium bikes could be fairly common by using straight (-ish) tubes and milled, forged  (and milled) lugs, maybe even cast lugs? I'm guessing it could save quite a lot of energy and you wouldn't have the issues with heat treating and straightening the frames afterwards. The shape of a bike frame is not the best for gluing as ideally you have large surface areas for the glued joint (which gives it strength), but it's not impossible, clearly.

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airwreck
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11/17/2022 10:03am

Vitus and Trek used to glue frames together, wonder why they stopped?

kcy4130
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11/17/2022 10:11am

It makes sense that Atherton would glue Al lugs to Al tubes: they have experience and expertise in bonding and can probably use the same jigs that they use for carbon/ti bikes. They're already setup to make frames in that manner, just have to adjust to the parameters of a different adhesive. Conventional welded Al frames if made in house would require them to learn a lot, hire skilled welders, and buy a lot of equipment. 

Regarding glued lug Al construction becoming the norm.... perhaps one day, but I don't think it's there yet. 

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Kusa
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11/17/2022 10:50am

Stumpy EVO Sworks 2023 color (still not on US site yet)

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3
11/17/2022 11:38am

Merida bonded their AlBonTech bikes in the eighties. That was when they first started producing under their own name after a Norwegian who wanted to sell bikes didn't have his own brand to put on the frames, and thought Merida was as good as anything... So bonding frames is nothing new. 

bcurrancy
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11/18/2022 12:12pm
BikeManic wrote:
Is this our new Levo SL??

Is this our new Levo SL??

No more asymmetrical, looks kinda like a Commencal 

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Primoz
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11/18/2022 12:14pm
Losifer wrote:

This just came out, so I haven’t had a chance to listen to it but here’s more info on that Williams Racing/Trinity gearbox:

https://shows.acast.com/bikes-big-ideas/episodes/trinity-mtbs-gearbox-v…

Listened to it. Interesting tidbit about moving the cassette, not the chainring to shift. Apparently what is shown is a few weeks/months behind in the development and a more refined variant is already made and another one in the works.

An enduro variant with 500 % range was also mentioned. I'm REALLY interested in how that one will pan out. Using a 12spd cassette like we have on our bikes is out of the question, the 50T is simply too big. It hardly even fits inside the front triangle of a modern trailbike without packaging the shock and links, let alone a bottle. Also moving a 12spd cassette I think is out of the question due to the width compared to a 6spd cassette the DH bike uses. I think a dual cassette variant (like the Shimano patent uses - 2 11-25 15spd cassettes give an almost even 13 % jump between gears and a 516 % range) or a 2-stage setup (2xsomething at least) is something that can hardly be avoided. So yeah, interested in seeing what comes of it Smile

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Losifer
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11/18/2022 12:33pm
Primoz wrote:
Listened to it. Interesting tidbit about moving the cassette, not the chainring to shift. Apparently what is shown is a few weeks/months behind in the development...

Listened to it. Interesting tidbit about moving the cassette, not the chainring to shift. Apparently what is shown is a few weeks/months behind in the development and a more refined variant is already made and another one in the works.

An enduro variant with 500 % range was also mentioned. I'm REALLY interested in how that one will pan out. Using a 12spd cassette like we have on our bikes is out of the question, the 50T is simply too big. It hardly even fits inside the front triangle of a modern trailbike without packaging the shock and links, let alone a bottle. Also moving a 12spd cassette I think is out of the question due to the width compared to a 6spd cassette the DH bike uses. I think a dual cassette variant (like the Shimano patent uses - 2 11-25 15spd cassettes give an almost even 13 % jump between gears and a 516 % range) or a 2-stage setup (2xsomething at least) is something that can hardly be avoided. So yeah, interested in seeing what comes of it Smile

That's exactly what I was thinking when Mick was talking about a 500% range- that Shimano set up would make the modularity easier as well.

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Hambo
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11/19/2022 3:58am
BikeManic wrote:
Is this our new Levo SL??

Is this our new Levo SL??

E-Status?

Primoz
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11/19/2022 4:06am

My thoughts exactly, but checking it out, the Status mounts the shock on the downtube, not the top tube.

New status coming too? Or is the Stumpy dropping the diagonal brace in the next generation?

One thing is for sure, this is something wholly new or overhauled from Specialized

matmattmatthew
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11/19/2022 6:11am

Does anyone have insider info as to when Sram's new AXS group with the direct mount derailleur will be released?  I'm going to build an XC bike sometime in the next couple of months, and I'm debating whether to transfer a bunch of parts from my Spur or liquidate everything and build it with all new parts.  So I'm not sure if I should hang onto my current AXS drivetrain or hold out hope they release the next version soon.  

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Primoz
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11/19/2022 6:35am Edited Date/Time 11/19/2022 6:36am

I seem to remember a post from this thread that I can't find mentioning the coming spring.

I'm sure as hell waiting until then before I change anything from my drivetrain (finishing up the 4th season on the original cassette and front chainring...) or pulling the trigger on a new bike.

Noeserd
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11/19/2022 11:09am Edited Date/Time 11/19/2022 11:10am
Primoz wrote:
My thoughts exactly, but checking it out, the Status mounts the shock on the downtube, not the top tube. New status coming too? Or is the...

My thoughts exactly, but checking it out, the Status mounts the shock on the downtube, not the top tube.

New status coming too? Or is the Stumpy dropping the diagonal brace in the next generation?

One thing is for sure, this is something wholly new or overhauled from Specialized

I don't believe they will abandon the current status design, they simply used the x wing enduros tubings creating it because of that the frame must be costing them a dime. if they drastically update it they will loose the 3 grand price and a customer base will vanish 

11/19/2022 12:17pm
Does anyone have insider info as to when Sram's new AXS group with the direct mount derailleur will be released?  I'm going to build an XC...

Does anyone have insider info as to when Sram's new AXS group with the direct mount derailleur will be released?  I'm going to build an XC bike sometime in the next couple of months, and I'm debating whether to transfer a bunch of parts from my Spur or liquidate everything and build it with all new parts.  So I'm not sure if I should hang onto my current AXS drivetrain or hold out hope they release the next version soon.  

I don't have concrete dates but word on the street is that the new AXS groups will launch spring of 2023. Maybe March/April?

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matmattmatthew
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11/19/2022 2:28pm
Does anyone have insider info as to when Sram's new AXS group with the direct mount derailleur will be released?  I'm going to build an XC...

Does anyone have insider info as to when Sram's new AXS group with the direct mount derailleur will be released?  I'm going to build an XC bike sometime in the next couple of months, and I'm debating whether to transfer a bunch of parts from my Spur or liquidate everything and build it with all new parts.  So I'm not sure if I should hang onto my current AXS drivetrain or hold out hope they release the next version soon.  

I don't have concrete dates but word on the street is that the new AXS groups will launch spring of 2023. Maybe March/April?

That's what I figured.  I have an XO1 mechanical group in good shape from another bike, maybe I'll install that when I build up the new bike and swap it out for the new AXS stuff when it's released. 

Primoz
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11/19/2022 3:07pm

@jakelecluse the gearbox is just a Pinion by the looks of it, nothing surprising there. The idler is a different thing though.

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FullSend
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11/19/2022 9:24pm Edited Date/Time 11/19/2022 9:25pm
Gearbox Geometron/Nicolai G1    

Gearbox Geometron/Nicolai G1

 

That's a fully custom frame, not a stock one. Nicolai offers that service. They'll design you a custom frame to your specifications if you ask them nicely.

Primoz
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11/19/2022 11:55pm

I knew about custom geometry, custom suspension is a bit outside that though. Interesting to know they can go full custom though (would make sense for them to be that adaptable considering they have everything in house).

FullSend
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11/20/2022 6:54am
Primoz wrote:
I knew about custom geometry, custom suspension is a bit outside that though. Interesting to know they can go full custom though (would make sense for...

I knew about custom geometry, custom suspension is a bit outside that though. Interesting to know they can go full custom though (would make sense for them to be that adaptable considering they have everything in house).

I think it's super cool.

If you've got an idea that makes sense, they'll design and build a fully custom frame for you. As far as I know they are actually the only big-ish bike company left to offer that service to just anybody. It's not even that expensive either. Having them design and manufacture you a fully custom frame is cheaper than what a Santa Cruz frameset costs these days.

One of my neighbours has a custom Nicolai bike. It's loosely based on the G1, but has customized suspension to facilitate a longer shock and different kinematics, fully custom reach and stack, a reverse BB offset, a straight ZS 56mm head tube to facilitate a reach-adjust headset, loads of gussets everywhere, etc.

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boozed
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11/20/2022 2:37pm
Primoz wrote:
I knew about custom geometry, custom suspension is a bit outside that though. Interesting to know they can go full custom though (would make sense for...

I knew about custom geometry, custom suspension is a bit outside that though. Interesting to know they can go full custom though (would make sense for them to be that adaptable considering they have everything in house).

FullSend wrote:
I think it's super cool. If you've got an idea that makes sense, they'll design and build a fully custom frame for you. As far as...

I think it's super cool.

If you've got an idea that makes sense, they'll design and build a fully custom frame for you. As far as I know they are actually the only big-ish bike company left to offer that service to just anybody. It's not even that expensive either. Having them design and manufacture you a fully custom frame is cheaper than what a Santa Cruz frameset costs these days.

One of my neighbours has a custom Nicolai bike. It's loosely based on the G1, but has customized suspension to facilitate a longer shock and different kinematics, fully custom reach and stack, a reverse BB offset, a straight ZS 56mm head tube to facilitate a reach-adjust headset, loads of gussets everywhere, etc.

Do they have a bike check here, or any chance of talking them into one?

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thegromit
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11/21/2022 8:08am
FullSend wrote:
I think it's super cool. If you've got an idea that makes sense, they'll design and build a fully custom frame for you. As far as...

I think it's super cool.

If you've got an idea that makes sense, they'll design and build a fully custom frame for you. As far as I know they are actually the only big-ish bike company left to offer that service to just anybody. It's not even that expensive either. Having them design and manufacture you a fully custom frame is cheaper than what a Santa Cruz frameset costs these days.

One of my neighbours has a custom Nicolai bike. It's loosely based on the G1, but has customized suspension to facilitate a longer shock and different kinematics, fully custom reach and stack, a reverse BB offset, a straight ZS 56mm head tube to facilitate a reach-adjust headset, loads of gussets everywhere, etc.

Get a pic

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sspomer
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11/21/2022 8:26am Edited Date/Time 11/21/2022 8:34am

Magura just splashed up this video detailing their latest wireless dropper seatpost, the Vyron MDS- V3.

 

The internals are explained and shown in the vid

- 700g approx weight

- 30.9 or 31.6 diameters

- 100, 125, 150 and 175mm drops w/ some adjustability

- remote has a matchmaker-like interface w/ magura levers

- the battery isn't brand-specific rechargable like a reverb, it's a replaceable CR2-style that they say will run for a year. there are rechargeable CR2 batteries easily purchased anywhere.

price approx $600 USD - https://www.magura-vyron.com/en

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bulletbass man
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11/21/2022 8:35am Edited Date/Time 11/21/2022 8:38am
sspomer wrote:
Magura just splashed up this video detailing their latest wireless dropper seatpost, the Vyron MDS- V3.   The internals are explained and shown in the vid...

Magura just splashed up this video detailing their latest wireless dropper seatpost, the Vyron MDS- V3.

 

The internals are explained and shown in the vid

- 700g approx weight

- 30.9 or 31.6 diameters

- 100, 125, 150 and 175mm drops w/ some adjustability

- remote has a matchmaker-like interface w/ magura levers

- the battery isn't brand-specific rechargable like a reverb, it's a replaceable CR2-style that they say will run for a year. there are rechargeable CR2 batteries easily purchased anywhere.

price approx $600 USD - https://www.magura-vyron.com/en

At 600ish that may be worth it for the next bike.  Building up an e commuter rowdy enough for trailwork and the occasional xc ride.  Just pop it in there for trail days and have a rigid post for commuting.  Still a stretch but easier to justify than nearly 900.

11/21/2022 8:39am

Just saw a review of the new Vyron on enduro-MTB. Still delay and slow movement. It wasn't recommended compared to the competition.

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gbcoke
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US
11/21/2022 9:07am
sspomer wrote:
Magura just splashed up this video detailing their latest wireless dropper seatpost, the Vyron MDS- V3.   The internals are explained and shown in the vid...

Magura just splashed up this video detailing their latest wireless dropper seatpost, the Vyron MDS- V3.

 

The internals are explained and shown in the vid

- 700g approx weight

- 30.9 or 31.6 diameters

- 100, 125, 150 and 175mm drops w/ some adjustability

- remote has a matchmaker-like interface w/ magura levers

- the battery isn't brand-specific rechargable like a reverb, it's a replaceable CR2-style that they say will run for a year. there are rechargeable CR2 batteries easily purchased anywhere.

price approx $600 USD - https://www.magura-vyron.com/en

At 600ish that may be worth it for the next bike.  Building up an e commuter rowdy enough for trailwork and the occasional xc ride.  Just...

At 600ish that may be worth it for the next bike.  Building up an e commuter rowdy enough for trailwork and the occasional xc ride.  Just pop it in there for trail days and have a rigid post for commuting.  Still a stretch but easier to justify than nearly 900.

Who pays actual msrp on Sram these days ? Reverb axs in Europe is less than 600$ on most big German sites...

 

bcurrancy
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Waitsfield, VT US
11/21/2022 11:16am
sspomer wrote:
Magura just splashed up this video detailing their latest wireless dropper seatpost, the Vyron MDS- V3.   The internals are explained and shown in the vid...

Magura just splashed up this video detailing their latest wireless dropper seatpost, the Vyron MDS- V3.

 

The internals are explained and shown in the vid

- 700g approx weight

- 30.9 or 31.6 diameters

- 100, 125, 150 and 175mm drops w/ some adjustability

- remote has a matchmaker-like interface w/ magura levers

- the battery isn't brand-specific rechargable like a reverb, it's a replaceable CR2-style that they say will run for a year. there are rechargeable CR2 batteries easily purchased anywhere.

price approx $600 USD - https://www.magura-vyron.com/en

At 600ish that may be worth it for the next bike.  Building up an e commuter rowdy enough for trailwork and the occasional xc ride.  Just...

At 600ish that may be worth it for the next bike.  Building up an e commuter rowdy enough for trailwork and the occasional xc ride.  Just pop it in there for trail days and have a rigid post for commuting.  Still a stretch but easier to justify than nearly 900.

gbcoke wrote:

Who pays actual msrp on Sram these days ? Reverb axs in Europe is less than 600$ on most big German sites...

 

They're $861 from all the major US sites

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