@sspomer how does it work when there are a bunch of press releases and bike releases on the same day like this? Is this just total...
@sspomer how does it work when there are a bunch of press releases and bike releases on the same day like this? Is this just total coincidence? Is there some sort of market driver for fiscal year end or something on 12/1? I assume the product managers for these brands are pretty plugged in and have a pretty good idea of other company pending releases... or they get the info through the component mfg's somehow or is that assumption wrong? Is there a feedback loop from journalists that oof, that release date you chose is uhhh, busy?
Good day to have a beer at the end of the day and read about new stuff, that's always cool!
My experience with releases [mostly software, but with products in general] is that you release: a) when it's actually ready to ship, b) when your clients threaten to cancel their account if you don't release RFN, c) when it makes sense from a marketing perspective, d) if you need to get ahead of a competitor, or e) so you don't have to release at an inconvenient time.
I imagine that some brands will release on Dec. 1 because it's less than a month until x-mas, and they want people thinking about buying a new bike instead of buying crap for their families. The closer you get to the holidays, the greater the chance that the new new thing is just going to get lost in the chaos.
One new standard I’d love to see in the bike industry would be a geometry chart where I can actually see what frame size I’m looking at when I scroll down to the numbers. And please just put the interesting numbers at the top. Nobody’s buying their next bike because of the rad head tube length.
Brands have their ear on their ground for sure and occasionally definitely use that to their advantage. Santa Cruz launched reserve with the Danny Mac vid the same day we are one launched. That wasn’t a coincidence by any means.
But generally if anything brands are trying to stagger their releases to get eyes on their launch media and not step on any toes whether on purpose or accident.
Is this missing a jockey or is this a low pivot version? I thought the other version was high pivot because of the drive system but...
Is this missing a jockey or is this a low pivot version? I thought the other version was high pivot because of the drive system but thought the "SRAM" version would be still a high pivot.
The jockey is mounted to the swingarm up+left of the main pivot, near the shock shaft (see the pic of the Supre version).
scott lumen ebike
^^ prices on the U.S. sitethe PR info below
Introducing the ALL-NEW SCOTT Lumen. The first SCOTT E-MTB which has the...
scott lumen ebike
^^ prices on the U.S. site
the PR info below
Introducing the ALL-NEW SCOTT Lumen. The first SCOTT E-MTB which has the weight, the look, the noise and the handling of a MTB. LIGHT UP YOUR RIDE. Discover NOW!
Givisiez, Switzerland. December 2022. An E-MTB weighing just 15.5kg. Yup, you read that right. The SCOTT Lumen takes the world’s fastest XC/Trail frame platform and adds completely silent and powerful electric assistance all while maintaining SCOTT’s legendary lightweight DNA.
The ride feel is like a regular bike: no need to think about a longer braking distance, pedal drag or weight, as it’s even possible to ride the bike with the assistance switched off. This is an E-Bike for a mountain biker, with all the benefits of a regular bike, now with added assistance to get you up those hills faster to enjoy riding further and for even longer.
COMPACT POWERFUL ASSISTANCE
From the beginning, the objective was to create the lightest possible E-Bike and, after much investigation, it was clear that the TQ HPR50 was the ultimate solution for the SCOTT eRIDE R&D Team to achieve their goals.
TQ is a German company founded in 1994 that specializes in electric components across a range of industries including aerospace, medical and infrastructure. With the HPR50, they simply rewrote the rules, delivering an unprecedented weight/power ratio of 1.8kg for 50Nm. With a diameter of 8cm, TQ has innovated by using a harmonic gear system. This allows for a reduction of size, while also increasing the accuracy of the system. This results in a lighter bike, better integration while reducing backlash for a more natural pedaling sensation. This technology also allows for the reduction in system noise for a truly natural experience. After all, you are in the outdoors to, well, enjoy the outdoors.
The Tech behind The ALL-NEW LUMEN
2 BATTERIES, 1 INTERNAL, 1 EXTERNAL
The Lumen features a 360Wh internal battery which can be further complemented by a 160Wh external range extender. Easily fixed to the front water bottle mount with our unique SCOTT-designed quick-release mount, the range extender features a slim design and low weight, meaning minimal impact on the bike’s handling.
Thanks to TQ’s electronic expertise, the HPR50 battery, when combined with the range extender, guarantees maximum performance right through until empty. TQ use specific battery cells to ensure both the battery and range extender continue at full output, even as it reaches low capacity. The system can be charged with the range extender in place, the smart charger prioritising the bike battery’s charge first, so you’ll never be caught short when heading out to ride. The charge time is fast too, the main battery can reach 80% in two hours of charging.
2 WATER BOTTLE MOUNTS
Unlike most full suspension E-Bikes, on the Lumen there is no need to choose between the range extender or a water bottle - between longer rides and staying hydrated. Thanks to the integrated shock there is space for both an external battery and water. An optional sliding mount system also allows an easy switch between the front water bottle and the range extender, allowing either to be easily transported when out on longer rides.
SUSPENSION LAYOUT
The Lumen uses the same suspension layout as featured in the SCOTT Spark, now a double World Championship-winning bike. From the first time we rode the flex pivot layout, we fell in love. Now, years later, we still believe that for technical cross-country trail riding and fast, punchy singletrack, it’s the best approach. The suspension layout on the Lumen has a very specific and proven kinematic and less unsprung mass. Using a flex pivot in the seat stay is an ideal solution for bikes in this travel range and allows us to keep a very lightweight system while still ensuring optimal suspension performance.
INTEGRATED SUSPENSION TECHNOLOGY
The Spark debuted a frame platform with an integrated shock and the Lumen follows the same principle. Why integrated you ask? Well for one, we think it looks fantastic. But if we take a deeper look, this approach allows us to refine suspension characteristics without sacrificing weight. And when developing the world’s lightest E-MTB, every gram matters. For the optimal performance of a suspension shock, power transfer must be the most direct possible. What we want to avoid are any inefficient directional movements, in other words, lateral movements (sideways to the direction of travel) as the shock goes through its compression. Having an integrated shock allows us to improve this in several ways. Firstly, the frame construction around the shock and with the trunnion mount can be designed to be much more rigid, reducing movement and fostering more efficient power transfer. We can also add much larger bearings to the seat tube pivot, further reinforcing this area and reducing any unnecessary motion. While these may seem like minor improvements individually, the sum of their parts results in more efficient shock performance. Additionally, the shock is fully protected from any foreign elements. Rainy wintry ride? No problem, your shock will continue to perform at its best regardless.
Our integrated suspension technology also helps us to engineer frames with a lower shock placement which lowers center of gravity. As a result, the bike benefits from better handling, and a more stable, confidence-inspiring ride for the end user.
FRAME DESIGN
With 130mm of travel, it made perfect sense to utilize our tried and tested platform, the Spark 900. This design is the result of years of engineering experience and feedback from the most successful elite-level riders in the world. To fulfill the requirements of an electric system, adaptations were of course required, starting with the thickness of the carbon layup, the kinematics, the shock placement and the geometry. Even though the Lumen eRIDE and the Spark are analogous, the design of the Lumen has been optimized to fit the motor and the battery. The result is a motor and a battery integrated into a full suspension frame with an increase in volume of only 17% over the Spark. Looking at it, you can’t tell it’s an electric mountain bike.
SAG
Setting sag is also easy, as you can see what sag you’re running via an indicator on one of the pivots. Want to know if you’re using full suspension travel? Have a look through a port in the seat tube where you can see where your o-ring sits. You can easily move it back down to reset it.
COCKPIT
The Lumen 900 SL and 900 models feature the Fraser IC DC combo from Syncros. The designers worked on the shape to allow the cables to flow under the bar and around the sides of the stem before disappearing into the headset with integrated plastic parts to keep it clean and efficient. This avoids bends or kinks in the cables and provides a minimalist front end. In fact, when the system was developed, e-bike cables were already thought of in the design. All our bars and stems feature multiple options for computer, light and camera mounts both on top or under the bar.
The 910 and Contessa models feature a more standard bar and stem designed to work with the internal cable routing. Syncros provides all the touch points on the bike for the best riding experience.
HANDLEBAR REMOTE
The system can be controlled via a minimalistic handlebar remote paired to the integrated top tube display. The modes are easy to switch through, and, thanks to the ergonomic placement on the handlebar, can be easily controlled whilst riding, as well as when using Walk Mode.
TRACK YOUR RIDES
The TQ app offers real benefits and is easy to use. It’s easy to connect, customize and control your TQ-powered e-bike with the TQ E-Bike app. The bike comes with a suggested SCOTT motor tune, with the app you can tune your drive unit to either save battery life or maximize the power output. You can alter the pedal response either for a faster motor uptake response or to slow it down for a more natural feeling. Lastly you can customize the display, altering the order and number of screens available, turn on and off control sounds etc.
No buzz, no additional noise – simple essential information for when you and your E-Bike are on the go so you can ride more and enjoy the moment.
THE LUMEN PRODUCT RANGE
The new Lumen collection features 4 models: Lumen eRIDE 900 SL, Lumen eRIDE 900 and Lumen eRIDE 910, and one dedicated Contessa model. Discover the full collection on SCOTT-sports.com
All specs and pricing are provisional and might vary according to currency. Please reach out to your local SCOTT contact for further information.
Peep the granny gear descending! Not sure if the TQ will be able to keep up with that cadence. Looks like a rad bike though, but my trail bike now ways significantly more than an E bike, Oh what a time to be alive.
Somewhat off topic... but it finally happened....We have a headset routed bike in the shop that had it's bars spin and sheered the brake hose under a hard rotation.
Somewhat off topic... but it finally happened....We have a headset routed bike in the shop that had it's bars spin and sheered the brake hose under...
Somewhat off topic... but it finally happened....We have a headset routed bike in the shop that had it's bars spin and sheered the brake hose under a hard rotation.
With all of these light eeBs being released, I'm hoping to start seeing companies make interchangeable bolt-on BB structure assemblies that can be swapped with the motor and batteries for a 100% human powered and lighter ride. That scott would be about 26 lbs without the battery and motor, so 28ish if you add a BB within some alu/carbon structure. Would be awesome to be able to ditch the motor for access to specific/protected trail systems, for occasional racing, or summers in the bike park. While they could charge a pretty penny for it, this would certainly cannibalize sales of non-electric mtbs. Anyone seen patents, rumors, or protos of something similar to this idea? I'm sure with enough $$$ it could be commissioned from WRP or another fabricator to bolt a proto onto a Kenevo SL or any of the other light eeBs released recently.
With all of these light eeBs being released, I'm hoping to start seeing companies make interchangeable bolt-on BB structure assemblies that can be swapped with the...
With all of these light eeBs being released, I'm hoping to start seeing companies make interchangeable bolt-on BB structure assemblies that can be swapped with the motor and batteries for a 100% human powered and lighter ride. That scott would be about 26 lbs without the battery and motor, so 28ish if you add a BB within some alu/carbon structure. Would be awesome to be able to ditch the motor for access to specific/protected trail systems, for occasional racing, or summers in the bike park. While they could charge a pretty penny for it, this would certainly cannibalize sales of non-electric mtbs. Anyone seen patents, rumors, or protos of something similar to this idea? I'm sure with enough $$$ it could be commissioned from WRP or another fabricator to bolt a proto onto a Kenevo SL or any of the other light eeBs released recently.
I guess you mean eMTBs? Fazua already lets you drop the motor and battery.
With all of these light eeBs being released, I'm hoping to start seeing companies make interchangeable bolt-on BB structure assemblies that can be swapped with the...
With all of these light eeBs being released, I'm hoping to start seeing companies make interchangeable bolt-on BB structure assemblies that can be swapped with the motor and batteries for a 100% human powered and lighter ride. That scott would be about 26 lbs without the battery and motor, so 28ish if you add a BB within some alu/carbon structure. Would be awesome to be able to ditch the motor for access to specific/protected trail systems, for occasional racing, or summers in the bike park. While they could charge a pretty penny for it, this would certainly cannibalize sales of non-electric mtbs. Anyone seen patents, rumors, or protos of something similar to this idea? I'm sure with enough $$$ it could be commissioned from WRP or another fabricator to bolt a proto onto a Kenevo SL or any of the other light eeBs released recently.
That can also sound a lot like 'companies make/design eMTBs only, and you get to decide if you want the motor/battery installed'. Maybe they still sell the regular bike but it's just a motorless version of the eeb.
@sspomer how does it work when there are a bunch of press releases and bike releases on the same day like this? Is this just total...
@sspomer how does it work when there are a bunch of press releases and bike releases on the same day like this? Is this just total coincidence? Is there some sort of market driver for fiscal year end or something on 12/1? I assume the product managers for these brands are pretty plugged in and have a pretty good idea of other company pending releases... or they get the info through the component mfg's somehow or is that assumption wrong? Is there a feedback loop from journalists that oof, that release date you chose is uhhh, busy?
Good day to have a beer at the end of the day and read about new stuff, that's always cool!
I'll add my $0.02 here too being I used to work in a world where news (and press releases) was everything. I also have direct knowledge & insights into the outdoor industry.
Big picture, general timing around the launch of a product is very important and something that is thought through thoroughly. Questions usually considered include do we have the product to actually sell/ship to dealers? Have the dealers been made aware? Will this cannabilize some other product in our line or make a certain version irrelevant? Has the media been given ample time to test the product (sometimes these tests/launches go hand in hand; less of a thing in supply chain crunch)? However, the *specific* day is a little more of a craps shoot. Most companies have done the basic homework and know the best day for an announcement is Tues-Thurs.
Knowing what the competition is doing is one thing, knowing specifically when they are launching another. Outside my time in media where we were given embargoed PRs, the competition doesn't know exactly what is launching and when (unless they have a friend at the media outlet who backchannels this information to them). Furthermore, companies keep a lot of their R&D under wraps (looking at you Yeti - they have an entirely different off site building they do all R&D at) so its extra hard to know what is even coming.
The exception to everything I'm writing is something like earnings or an investor day (if you are a publicly traded company). Those are forecasted and put on a calendar months ahead of time with some cultural consideration given (but not much; IE - you know Apple's product launch day way in advance, you aren't going to launch your widget on the same day).
Remember, way back in the day, basically every product launch happened at the tradeshow (interbike) and a new lineup was rolled out year/year. This new way of launching product is far more efficient and sensible (being bikes don't care about the orientation of the earth to the sun), but it makes the Vitals and Pinkbikes a lot more important to these launches.
That can also sound a lot like 'companies make/design eMTBs only, and you get to decide if you want the motor/battery installed'. Maybe they still sell...
That can also sound a lot like 'companies make/design eMTBs only, and you get to decide if you want the motor/battery installed'. Maybe they still sell the regular bike but it's just a motorless version of the eeb.
It's almost like I made a forum thread about this
@baronKanon yes, you can drop the motor but can you bolt on a normal, non-electric BB?
@Masjo feel free to share the link to the existing thread to lead this topic away from the main tech rumors. This is exactly what I'm talking about. If manufacturers offered one frame design with 2 interchangeable bolt-on modules, a) traditional BB w. chainguide mounts, b) a motor and battery. Seems pretty feasible, though it would be less optimal for pedaling from little extra weight and in terms of suspension tuning. Lots of AM or longer travel bikes up for sale these days in Europe because people are mostly riding electric steeds. Most would prefer to keep a bike without a motor too but can't justify a bike worth $3-4k sitting idle around the garage.
@baronKanon yes, you can drop the motor but can you bolt on a normal, non-electric BB?
@Masjo feel free to share the link to the existing thread...
@baronKanon yes, you can drop the motor but can you bolt on a normal, non-electric BB?
@Masjo feel free to share the link to the existing thread to lead this topic away from the main tech rumors. This is exactly what I'm talking about. If manufacturers offered one frame design with 2 interchangeable bolt-on modules, a) traditional BB w. chainguide mounts, b) a motor and battery. Seems pretty feasible, though it would be less optimal for pedaling from little extra weight and in terms of suspension tuning. Lots of AM or longer travel bikes up for sale these days in Europe because people are mostly riding electric steeds. Most would prefer to keep a bike without a motor too but can't justify a bike worth $3-4k sitting idle around the garage.
If you want to continue the lightweight eeb conversation, here's the thread:
With all of these light eeBs being released, I'm hoping to start seeing companies make interchangeable bolt-on BB structure assemblies that can be swapped with the...
With all of these light eeBs being released, I'm hoping to start seeing companies make interchangeable bolt-on BB structure assemblies that can be swapped with the motor and batteries for a 100% human powered and lighter ride. That scott would be about 26 lbs without the battery and motor, so 28ish if you add a BB within some alu/carbon structure. Would be awesome to be able to ditch the motor for access to specific/protected trail systems, for occasional racing, or summers in the bike park. While they could charge a pretty penny for it, this would certainly cannibalize sales of non-electric mtbs. Anyone seen patents, rumors, or protos of something similar to this idea? I'm sure with enough $$$ it could be commissioned from WRP or another fabricator to bolt a proto onto a Kenevo SL or any of the other light eeBs released recently.
You have described the one single thing I pray never ever ever becomes common
With all of these light eeBs being released, I'm hoping to start seeing companies make interchangeable bolt-on BB structure assemblies that can be swapped with the...
With all of these light eeBs being released, I'm hoping to start seeing companies make interchangeable bolt-on BB structure assemblies that can be swapped with the motor and batteries for a 100% human powered and lighter ride. That scott would be about 26 lbs without the battery and motor, so 28ish if you add a BB within some alu/carbon structure. Would be awesome to be able to ditch the motor for access to specific/protected trail systems, for occasional racing, or summers in the bike park. While they could charge a pretty penny for it, this would certainly cannibalize sales of non-electric mtbs. Anyone seen patents, rumors, or protos of something similar to this idea? I'm sure with enough $$$ it could be commissioned from WRP or another fabricator to bolt a proto onto a Kenevo SL or any of the other light eeBs released recently.
When this happens i'm pretty sure somehow all the prices will rise even more while manufacturing will get cheaper
Will going back to non-headset cable routing the new threaded BB? Companies jump on the integration trend now and then in a few years some company will go back to the "old, better style" of external routing and be lauded for finally listening to the consumer and then over the next three years most companies will return to where we are now in the ever cyclic world of... Well, cycling.
Long time listener, first time caller. Really enjoy this nerdery when its not derailled by eebs. Grabbed a few screen shots of the new sram derailleur for everyones enjoyment!
I heard a rumour that the SRAM flat-top chain was going to be necessary for decent shifting with the new derailleur and [presumably] cassette. Can anyone corroborate?
I heard a rumour that the SRAM flat-top chain was going to be necessary for decent shifting with the new derailleur and [presumably] cassette. Can anyone...
I heard a rumour that the SRAM flat-top chain was going to be necessary for decent shifting with the new derailleur and [presumably] cassette. Can anyone corroborate?
Yeah, one of the earlier posts has more details (IIRC the cassette was marked as "flat-top only" or something similar...)
From another forum: " I had a conversation with a reliable source, who has access to supply chain ordering for new bike builds at a well known company. He advised me not to order any SRAM Force, as they are being updated in March 2023."
Dunno if they're going to release all AXS stuff at the same time, but that's in-line w/ what other folks have posted for the new Eagle release...
With all of these light eeBs being released, I'm hoping to start seeing companies make interchangeable bolt-on BB structure assemblies that can be swapped with the...
With all of these light eeBs being released, I'm hoping to start seeing companies make interchangeable bolt-on BB structure assemblies that can be swapped with the motor and batteries for a 100% human powered and lighter ride. That scott would be about 26 lbs without the battery and motor, so 28ish if you add a BB within some alu/carbon structure. Would be awesome to be able to ditch the motor for access to specific/protected trail systems, for occasional racing, or summers in the bike park. While they could charge a pretty penny for it, this would certainly cannibalize sales of non-electric mtbs. Anyone seen patents, rumors, or protos of something similar to this idea? I'm sure with enough $$$ it could be commissioned from WRP or another fabricator to bolt a proto onto a Kenevo SL or any of the other light eeBs released recently.
Well, you’ve already mentioned WRP yourself - just check his Instagram to see which other project he’s involved in. Exactly what you have in mind with the interchangeable bb section, although currently it’s for going from standard drivetrain to a prototype one, their own design, but he and the others have some thoughts about e-bike-nising the thing in future!
Yeah, one of the earlier posts has more details (IIRC the cassette was marked as "flat-top only" or something similar...)
From another forum: " I had...
Yeah, one of the earlier posts has more details (IIRC the cassette was marked as "flat-top only" or something similar...)
From another forum: " I had a conversation with a reliable source, who has access to supply chain ordering for new bike builds at a well known company. He advised me not to order any SRAM Force, as they are being updated in March 2023."
Dunno if they're going to release all AXS stuff at the same time, but that's in-line w/ what other folks have posted for the new Eagle release...
Ah, thanks for this. I know from working with the Force drivetrains that it can take a long time [a couple hundred km] to get the chain and cassette to mesh/shift well. Hopefully, SRAM fixed that for the Eagle version.
I heard a rumour that the SRAM flat-top chain was going to be necessary for decent shifting with the new derailleur and [presumably] cassette. Can anyone...
I heard a rumour that the SRAM flat-top chain was going to be necessary for decent shifting with the new derailleur and [presumably] cassette. Can anyone corroborate?
Yeah, one of the earlier posts has more details (IIRC the cassette was marked as "flat-top only" or something similar...)
From another forum: " I had...
Yeah, one of the earlier posts has more details (IIRC the cassette was marked as "flat-top only" or something similar...)
From another forum: " I had a conversation with a reliable source, who has access to supply chain ordering for new bike builds at a well known company. He advised me not to order any SRAM Force, as they are being updated in March 2023."
Dunno if they're going to release all AXS stuff at the same time, but that's in-line w/ what other folks have posted for the new Eagle release...
Do you know if that is a cassette or derailleur requirement, or both? Currently I have a really nicely working Sramano setup with AXS derailleur matched to Shimano chain, chainring, and cassette. Will it still be possible with the next gen stuff?
I heard a rumour that the SRAM flat-top chain was going to be necessary for decent shifting with the new derailleur and [presumably] cassette. Can anyone...
I heard a rumour that the SRAM flat-top chain was going to be necessary for decent shifting with the new derailleur and [presumably] cassette. Can anyone corroborate?
Yeah, one of the earlier posts has more details (IIRC the cassette was marked as "flat-top only" or something similar...)
From another forum: " I had...
Yeah, one of the earlier posts has more details (IIRC the cassette was marked as "flat-top only" or something similar...)
From another forum: " I had a conversation with a reliable source, who has access to supply chain ordering for new bike builds at a well known company. He advised me not to order any SRAM Force, as they are being updated in March 2023."
Dunno if they're going to release all AXS stuff at the same time, but that's in-line w/ what other folks have posted for the new Eagle release...
Do you know if that is a cassette or derailleur requirement, or both? Currently I have a really nicely working Sramano setup with AXS derailleur matched to...
Do you know if that is a cassette or derailleur requirement, or both? Currently I have a really nicely working Sramano setup with AXS derailleur matched to Shimano chain, chainring, and cassette. Will it still be possible with the next gen stuff?
I would suggest it is a requirement as it says T-Type on both derailleur and cassette, and the chain must run through with the bottom and top section on the jockey wheels. But that’s just my poorly educated guess
Heard in an interview with neko mullaly on the Pisgah Podcast that trek is coming out with a high pivot enduro bike. He mentioned it while talking about all the brands that test at windrock/kanuga.
Yeah, one of the earlier posts has more details (IIRC the cassette was marked as "flat-top only" or something similar...)
From another forum: " I had...
Yeah, one of the earlier posts has more details (IIRC the cassette was marked as "flat-top only" or something similar...)
From another forum: " I had a conversation with a reliable source, who has access to supply chain ordering for new bike builds at a well known company. He advised me not to order any SRAM Force, as they are being updated in March 2023."
Dunno if they're going to release all AXS stuff at the same time, but that's in-line w/ what other folks have posted for the new Eagle release...
Do you know if that is a cassette or derailleur requirement, or both? Currently I have a really nicely working Sramano setup with AXS derailleur matched to...
Do you know if that is a cassette or derailleur requirement, or both? Currently I have a really nicely working Sramano setup with AXS derailleur matched to Shimano chain, chainring, and cassette. Will it still be possible with the next gen stuff?
I would suggest it is a requirement as it says T-Type on both derailleur and cassette, and the chain must run through with the bottom and...
I would suggest it is a requirement as it says T-Type on both derailleur and cassette, and the chain must run through with the bottom and top section on the jockey wheels. But that’s just my poorly educated guess
Yes the T-type chain is required. It'll be interesting how this new AXS stuff integrates with the past gen stuff. My main concern is the shifter, I really don't like how fragile and small that new button style shifter is. I hope that it can be backwards compatible.
It also appears there will be two levels of derailleur. If your look at jack moirs der. and the one pictured on the trek, I would guess the black cage is carbon and the silver is alloy.
Another point of curiosity is the rebuild-ability of these derailleurs. With how rigidly mounted they are I wonder what kind of parts replacements will be available. I would guess that at the least cages are replaceable but I would wonder if these derailleurs could be disassembled further than that.
My last thought in this regard is with derailleur adjustments. Theoretically with the new UDH spec you might not even have to adjust these things. I haven't seen the exact specifications/tolerances of UDH. I wonder if Sram has and official UDH certification for manufactures that have to be inspected or passed off to qualify as UDH compliant. Depending on how stringent that spec is might influence how difficult these will be to adjust.
My experience with releases [mostly software, but with products in general] is that you release: a) when it's actually ready to ship, b) when your clients threaten to cancel their account if you don't release RFN, c) when it makes sense from a marketing perspective, d) if you need to get ahead of a competitor, or e) so you don't have to release at an inconvenient time.
I imagine that some brands will release on Dec. 1 because it's less than a month until x-mas, and they want people thinking about buying a new bike instead of buying crap for their families. The closer you get to the holidays, the greater the chance that the new new thing is just going to get lost in the chaos.
My $0.02, YMMV
That looks so sick! That must mean that the new Reign is officially dual-crown compatible, right? Looks like Giant is cool again.
My guess would be aluminum frames only.
One new standard I’d love to see in the bike industry would be a geometry chart where I can actually see what frame size I’m looking at when I scroll down to the numbers. And please just put the interesting numbers at the top. Nobody’s buying their next bike because of the rad head tube length.
Speccing a zeb fork with a shock without piggy bag, why?
Brands have their ear on their ground for sure and occasionally definitely use that to their advantage. Santa Cruz launched reserve with the Danny Mac vid the same day we are one launched. That wasn’t a coincidence by any means.
But generally if anything brands are trying to stagger their releases to get eyes on their launch media and not step on any toes whether on purpose or accident.
So, a friend who knows how much I loved my Chromag Rootdown just texted me about that Outside site having a couple of pics of a Chromag enduro bike.
The jockey is mounted to the swingarm up+left of the main pivot, near the shock shaft (see the pic of the Supre version).
Peep the granny gear descending! Not sure if the TQ will be able to keep up with that cadence. Looks like a rad bike though, but my trail bike now ways significantly more than an E bike, Oh what a time to be alive.
Somewhat off topic... but it finally happened....We have a headset routed bike in the shop that had it's bars spin and sheered the brake hose under a hard rotation.
Couldn't see that coming 😅
With all of these light eeBs being released, I'm hoping to start seeing companies make interchangeable bolt-on BB structure assemblies that can be swapped with the motor and batteries for a 100% human powered and lighter ride. That scott would be about 26 lbs without the battery and motor, so 28ish if you add a BB within some alu/carbon structure. Would be awesome to be able to ditch the motor for access to specific/protected trail systems, for occasional racing, or summers in the bike park. While they could charge a pretty penny for it, this would certainly cannibalize sales of non-electric mtbs. Anyone seen patents, rumors, or protos of something similar to this idea? I'm sure with enough $$$ it could be commissioned from WRP or another fabricator to bolt a proto onto a Kenevo SL or any of the other light eeBs released recently.
I guess you mean eMTBs? Fazua already lets you drop the motor and battery.
That can also sound a lot like 'companies make/design eMTBs only, and you get to decide if you want the motor/battery installed'. Maybe they still sell the regular bike but it's just a motorless version of the eeb.
It's almost like I made a forum thread about this
I'll add my $0.02 here too being I used to work in a world where news (and press releases) was everything. I also have direct knowledge & insights into the outdoor industry.
Big picture, general timing around the launch of a product is very important and something that is thought through thoroughly. Questions usually considered include do we have the product to actually sell/ship to dealers? Have the dealers been made aware? Will this cannabilize some other product in our line or make a certain version irrelevant? Has the media been given ample time to test the product (sometimes these tests/launches go hand in hand; less of a thing in supply chain crunch)? However, the *specific* day is a little more of a craps shoot. Most companies have done the basic homework and know the best day for an announcement is Tues-Thurs.
Knowing what the competition is doing is one thing, knowing specifically when they are launching another. Outside my time in media where we were given embargoed PRs, the competition doesn't know exactly what is launching and when (unless they have a friend at the media outlet who backchannels this information to them). Furthermore, companies keep a lot of their R&D under wraps (looking at you Yeti - they have an entirely different off site building they do all R&D at) so its extra hard to know what is even coming.
The exception to everything I'm writing is something like earnings or an investor day (if you are a publicly traded company). Those are forecasted and put on a calendar months ahead of time with some cultural consideration given (but not much; IE - you know Apple's product launch day way in advance, you aren't going to launch your widget on the same day).
Remember, way back in the day, basically every product launch happened at the tradeshow (interbike) and a new lineup was rolled out year/year. This new way of launching product is far more efficient and sensible (being bikes don't care about the orientation of the earth to the sun), but it makes the Vitals and Pinkbikes a lot more important to these launches.
YMMV
@baronKanon yes, you can drop the motor but can you bolt on a normal, non-electric BB?
@Masjo feel free to share the link to the existing thread to lead this topic away from the main tech rumors. This is exactly what I'm talking about. If manufacturers offered one frame design with 2 interchangeable bolt-on modules, a) traditional BB w. chainguide mounts, b) a motor and battery. Seems pretty feasible, though it would be less optimal for pedaling from little extra weight and in terms of suspension tuning. Lots of AM or longer travel bikes up for sale these days in Europe because people are mostly riding electric steeds. Most would prefer to keep a bike without a motor too but can't justify a bike worth $3-4k sitting idle around the garage.
If you want to continue the lightweight eeb conversation, here's the thread:
https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/The-Hub,2/Lightweight-eMTBs-heavier-MTB…
You have described the one single thing I pray never ever ever becomes common
When this happens i'm pretty sure somehow all the prices will rise even more while manufacturing will get cheaper
Will going back to non-headset cable routing the new threaded BB? Companies jump on the integration trend now and then in a few years some company will go back to the "old, better style" of external routing and be lauded for finally listening to the consumer and then over the next three years most companies will return to where we are now in the ever cyclic world of... Well, cycling.
Long time listener, first time caller. Really enjoy this nerdery when its not derailled by eebs. Grabbed a few screen shots of the new sram derailleur for everyones enjoyment!
Cheers!
I heard a rumour that the SRAM flat-top chain was going to be necessary for decent shifting with the new derailleur and [presumably] cassette. Can anyone corroborate?
Yeah, one of the earlier posts has more details (IIRC the cassette was marked as "flat-top only" or something similar...)
From another forum: " I had a conversation with a reliable source, who has access to supply chain ordering for new bike builds at a well known company. He advised me not to order any SRAM Force, as they are being updated in March 2023."
Dunno if they're going to release all AXS stuff at the same time, but that's in-line w/ what other folks have posted for the new Eagle release...
here are the first shots of it from this summer, 2nd shot of cassette indicates specific chain
https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/New-SRAM-Drivetrain-at-World-C…
Well, you’ve already mentioned WRP yourself - just check his Instagram to see which other project he’s involved in. Exactly what you have in mind with the interchangeable bb section, although currently it’s for going from standard drivetrain to a prototype one, their own design, but he and the others have some thoughts about e-bike-nising the thing in future!
Ah, thanks for this. I know from working with the Force drivetrains that it can take a long time [a couple hundred km] to get the chain and cassette to mesh/shift well. Hopefully, SRAM fixed that for the Eagle version.
Do you know if that is a cassette or derailleur requirement, or both? Currently I have a really nicely working Sramano setup with AXS derailleur matched to Shimano chain, chainring, and cassette. Will it still be possible with the next gen stuff?
I would suggest it is a requirement as it says T-Type on both derailleur and cassette, and the chain must run through with the bottom and top section on the jockey wheels. But that’s just my poorly educated guess
Heard in an interview with neko mullaly on the Pisgah Podcast that trek is coming out with a high pivot enduro bike. He mentioned it while talking about all the brands that test at windrock/kanuga.
Yes the T-type chain is required. It'll be interesting how this new AXS stuff integrates with the past gen stuff. My main concern is the shifter, I really don't like how fragile and small that new button style shifter is. I hope that it can be backwards compatible.
It also appears there will be two levels of derailleur. If your look at jack moirs der. and the one pictured on the trek, I would guess the black cage is carbon and the silver is alloy.
Another point of curiosity is the rebuild-ability of these derailleurs. With how rigidly mounted they are I wonder what kind of parts replacements will be available. I would guess that at the least cages are replaceable but I would wonder if these derailleurs could be disassembled further than that.
My last thought in this regard is with derailleur adjustments. Theoretically with the new UDH spec you might not even have to adjust these things. I haven't seen the exact specifications/tolerances of UDH. I wonder if Sram has and official UDH certification for manufactures that have to be inspected or passed off to qualify as UDH compliant. Depending on how stringent that spec is might influence how difficult these will be to adjust.
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