How To Get The Most Out Of Your RockShox Suspension

View as: Slideshow | One Page
Site logo
How To Get The Most Out Of Your RockShox Suspension
By bturman
Share:
<b>Welcome to Fluid Function, home base for RockShox and SRAM operations in Squamish, British Columbia. We're here to learn how to get the most out of your suspension.</b>
<b>If you're looking for Suspension 101, this isn't it. Brush up on the basics then come back for some nitty gritty details.</b>
<b>Did you know? Using air volume spacers it's possible to adjust how much and how quickly the fork or shock ramps up.</b>
<b>Bottomless Tokens for the fork. Bottomless Rings for the shock.</b>
Video is processing. Try again soon.
<b>Here you can see the changes the Tokens make in real life, thanks to Shawn 'The Wizard' Cruickshanks.</b>
<b>So why would you want to change the air volume in your fork or shock? Listen in.</b>
<b>SRAM's own Tyler Morland rides hard and fast, and prefers the feel of a fork with an added Token or two.</b>
<b>The Transition Smuggler is an aggressive, short travel 29er that loves to party. It's decked out in SRAM's new GX drivetrain, Roam 50 wheels, and Guide Ultimate brakes.</b>
<b>With so little travel available, the Smuggler requires a precise rider, good tires, and great suspension to pull it off (which it does, in spades).</b>
<b>The DebonAir can upgrade adds more negative volume, helping to make the shock more supple off the top for better traction and small bump performance.</b>
<b>Got your baseline settings? Good. Write them down. We're running 88psi in the fork, 3 Tokens, 6 clicks compression, and rebound to feel. The shock is at Transition's recommended 33% sag at 160psi with 0 Rings and wide open compression.</b>
<b>Find yourself running more air pressure or less sag than recommended? You're a a good candidate for an additional Bottomless Token or two, just like SRAM's Duncan Riffle.</b>
<b>Bracket testing is the name of the game, and involves trying the extreme ends of the adjustment range at first then narrowing in on your sweet spot.</b>
Video is processing. Try again soon.
<b>Installing or removing Bottomless Tokens from the Pike is easy.</b>
Video is processing. Try again soon.
<b>Bottomless Ring installation is similar. You may have to add more Rings than Tokens to feel a big difference.</b>
<b>Repeat runs on the same section of trail is crucial to observing how things change. Pick something with a good variety of terrain.</b>
<b>Keep track of your settings and the changes you feel on the trail. What did you like, what didn't you like?</b>
Video is processing. Try again soon.
<b>On the left is a fork with 0 Bottomless Tokens, and on the right is one with 5.</b>
<b>We ended up with 1 additional Token in the fork from the factory setting, for a total of 4.</b>
Video is processing. Try again soon.
<b>Repeat the process with the rear shock. 5 Rings on the right, 2 on the left.</b>
Video is processing. Try again soon.
<b>Here's our final setup in action, with 1 extra Token compared to the baseline and 2 extra Rings in the shock. We dropped to 80psi in the fork (8psi less than baseline) and kept 160psi in the shock, yielding the same rear sag percentage but a better overall feel.</b>
<b>9 runs in 1 day yielded an even more incredible Smuggler customized for our riding style and Whistler's terrain. That's time well spent!</b>
<b>Now it's time to do some testing of your own. Get out there and get your hands dirty.</b>
<b>The end result can be pretty impressive. Check out www.rockshox.com and have a look at the resources below for more details.</b>
rockshox2.png?VersionId=tTRbt1eVg
Suspension performance plays a major role in how a bike rides. Set it up wrong or neglect to service it regularly and chances are pretty good that you'll be bouncing down the trail, out of control. Set it up properly and you'll be in bump absorbing heaven, grabbing every bit of available traction, blitzing through rock sections, blasting jumps, sending drops, and loving your ride.



Unknown to many riders, RockShox products offer the ability to tweak and tune many settings, including the air spring. In this feature we look at how to improve your suspension to better suit your riding style and terrain using air volume spacers, also known as Bottomless Tokens and Rings. The concepts we discuss apply to almost the entire range of air sprung RockShox products.



One of the beautiful things about modern suspension is just how easily tunable it really is. Don't feel afraid to grab a wrench, install a few Tokens or Rings and see how things feel. You may be surprised how much your ride improves.



Additional Resources



- Mountain Bike Suspension Set Up Basics


- Installing Bottomless Tokens


- Installing Bottomless Rings (Pages 32-34)


- RockShox Service Center


- RockShox Technologies


- Professional Tuning and Service by Fluid Function


- Pike Fork Product Info


- Monarch Shock and DebonAir Product Info


- Transition Smuggler Product Info



RockShox Bottomless Token Counts








The number of red squares indicates the number of Bottomless Tokens installed at the factory. Do not exceed the maximum number listed for your fork.



The products and upgrades mentioned in this feature can be purchased through any major dealer. For more details be sure to visit www.rockshox.com.



Photos by Adrian Marcoux // Videos and feature by Brandon Turman
Related:
RockShox
Forks
Rear Shocks
How-To / Instruction
Suspension
35 comments

View replies to: How To Get The Most Out Of Your RockShox Suspension

c50 profile 1452332802
Footey72
9 years ago
Great article. I've always been a bit nervous about opening up my shocks and tinkering but after seeing how simple it is I will give it a go. Nice work Brandon.
1
avatar.png?VersionId=TkOXSLqxgAC412Y 1F6UyzOaMSkN
alexisfire02
9 years ago
I'd like to see one of these just on the debonair. Got one on my new devinci spartan and so far it's terrible. Can only setup one of the 3 positions to work right. Has the same problems everyone hated about the CTD fox shox. It is impossible to get all three modes to work well. I have to pedal in a too soft trail mode to get a comfortable descend mode. If i set up climb mode to feel good, descend mode is way too stiff
1
1
c50 profile 1487817150
bturman
9 years ago
Honestly, no one really complained about FOX's Float CTD rear shock. The majority of issues previously surrounded the Float CTD fork's lack of damping in the open mode, though this was resolved from model year 2014 forward. When you mention "setting up" the Monarch Plus DebonAir to perform well in one of three modes, are you talking about the air pressure?

From my experience (I'm testing one now), the Spartan isn't the best pedaling bike to begin with, regardless of shock settings. She's made to rally on the way back down.
2
c50 149187 936024901533 10205078 50991835 3734911 n
jeff.brines
9 years ago
Setup your descend mode to work properly on the way down. If you can't get that right you can always swap your compression tune to a firmer or lighter overall stack. The other two "modes" are really more accessories than anything else. (that said I generally ride my bike in the middle or firm one - which is an indication I need to bump to a firmer overall tune)
avatar.png?VersionId=TkOXSLqxgAC412Y 1F6UyzOaMSkN
alexisfire02
9 years ago
This is exactly what I do. I usually actually just leave it in descend mode even when I'm on my XC rides. The bike is the second best pedaling AM bike (only the GT AOS bikes pedal better) that I've tested (Which is pretty much all of them), so I just pedal in descend mode. Until I have a remote on my bar to switch modes, I wouldn't ever take it out of descend mode anyway.
1
avatar.png?VersionId=TkOXSLqxgAC412Y 1F6UyzOaMSkN
Enigo Montoya
9 years ago
Everyone complained about Fox's rear CTD shock. It was horrible and never worked. That is why it is already completely discountinued and replaced with all their new dampening setups, none of which say CTD on them anymore. The DPS stuff is a much better, working, shock.

My brother and I also have Spartans and they pedal great. Much better than any FSR bike we've had go through our store, and as good as the VPP brands that we stock. DW simply makes a better bike.
I even put the new Fox 170 enduro fork on mine, and love pedaling it.
1
1
c50 DSC 0184 Copy 1409590357
kc358
9 years ago
Sadly, I find this missing out on a major point of what this is affecting, and what the suspension industry is lacking. Adjusting air volume is a tool to change spring RATE. Progression ("bottom out") is actually affected by compression ratio. So naturally, changing volume is also changing compression ratio.
The graphs showed that volume affects the spring rate through the travel (especially in the forks). This is what leads to, as you mentioned, the forks holding up higher in the stroke on jump takeoffs. Spring rate is doing the work here.
Now that leads to the issue of progression, a unfortunate side affect that people are learning to deal with the worsened performance of their forks rather than the manufacturers working to create technology that minimizes it.
4
c50 water bike
Dave_Camp
9 years ago
Lowering the volume causes the pressure to increase sooner per same stroke. Meaning the rate will go up sooner starting with the same pressure at top-out- so yeah the graphs are fine.

What are you complaining about? The volume adjustments(and suspension in general) work pretty well.
c50 149187 936024901533 10205078 50991835 3734911 n
jeff.brines
9 years ago
Beat me to it. I've reread his comment 9 times and still not sure what he's saying. My best guess is this - I *think* what he wants is a way to increase the rate on a "flatter" curve. (be able to increase the rate in the mid part without it having such a big impact on bottom out progressiveness) I'd wager the only way to do this would be through negative air spring tuning (both amount and chamber size). Am I wrong?

I think we're over doing it...ha,
c50 DSC 0184 Copy 1409590357
kc358
9 years ago
It is about the fact that air springs have three variables: spring rate, spring preload and ramp up. But our forks and shocks have only two adjustments: volume and pressure.
That means it is always a compromise in performance.
To not have too much ramp up you have to run less pressure, which means too low spring rate, and then too much pressure to make up for that, and a loss in small bump compliance.

There NEEDS to be a third adjustment in air springs; one that compensates for ramp up.
It is fairly simple actually, Fox uses it in their Float X Evol snowmobile and ATV shocks and X-Fusion put it in their Revel. you just have a second chamber with a floating piston, and that chamber is charged a lot higher, ideally set so it equalizes with the main chamber right at the point it would start to ramp up. When they equalize, the volume expands and keeps the rate (more) linear. then you can set up your spring rate (volume) and preload (pressure) to the right settings for best performance.
3
c50 149187 936024901533 10205078 50991835 3734911 n
jeff.brines
9 years ago
This is also the same as what Trek did with their stuff no? (on the Remedy/Slash) - but as many rider's found with that design, you need to be able to tune this too or it may be *too* linear. Some ramp up is good. Too much is not. YMMV.
c50 DSC 0184 Copy 1409590357
kc358
9 years ago
Yes, the Trek DRCV was an attempt at making the air spring more linear. But they introduced a bunch of issues with their design. Due to the mechanical opening, like you said, there is no adjustment in when that occurs. Because the two chambers actually connect, when you fill your air chamber, you will lose pressure in the main chamber when the the second opens and they equalize. While they introduced a way to adjust bottom out, they left out spring rate, so still not optimized. At least with volume adjust you can add resistance to blowing through the stroke, that you can't with DRCV. Lastly, when you make the air spring more linear, you can set the frame geometry (the riding rate that it drives the shock) to now be more progressive. You are right, too linear is bad, but you want your progression to be equal for spring and damping, not just spring. So make the spring linear, then introduce progression through the frame. Trek didn't compensate losing spring progression by introducing it in the frame so they had issues of blowing through travel.

KTM tried for 10 years to use a linkage less shock on their MX bikes but could never get the suspension to perform as good as the Japanese bikes because theirs lacked the progressive damping, despite their use of progressive springs.
3
c50 149187 936024901533 10205078 50991835 3734911 n
jeff.brines
9 years ago
Most frames are progressive @Kc358. http://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/ Spring rate can be increased by simply putting more air in no? I see where you are coming from and appreciate the idea of being able to modify the spring curve very precisely but 99% of users are struggling with the adjustments that are on the bike to start with. Adding more adjust-ability can do as much harm as good unless we send everyone to a "suspension tuning 301 class"
c50 DSC 0184 Copy 1409590357
kc358
9 years ago
True, most frames are progressive, but when designing a frame to be used with air shocks, they generally make the frame less progressive because of the ramp up in an air shock. So in the end, you get huge end ramp in spring curve, but not in damping like is desired.
Adding air pressure does NOT change spring rate, it changes preload. Threading down the preload collar on a coil spring does not add spring rate to the coil.
It's physics, you can mathematically solve it.
And the nice thing about mathematical equations, it is easy to create charts and/or a setup guide that you enter in rider weight, bike weight and it spits out recommended air volume, pressure and secondary chamber pressure.
The reason people struggle with the current adjustments is because a) they are using volume to adjust ramp when it affects spring rate and b) there aren't enough adjustments to match the variables in the performance, so you are always running a compromised setup. Too much ramp or too little spring rate, you can't adjust them separate, so you will always have an incorrect setting.
Or the suspension companies can keep giving you half assed products the work average and give suspension seminars with incorrect information. If that's what you want, then that's your problem, but I'd like suspension that works properly that can be set up correctly for me.
c50 149187 936024901533 10205078 50991835 3734911 n
jeff.brines
9 years ago
I'm pretty sure you are wrong on this one. Adding air to an air spring does in fact change the spring rate the same way swapping a coil changes the spring rate. I'll let the real suspension engineers on this thread chime in.

You are also grossly overestimating the ability of your "average" rider to take advantage/understand suspension tuning. Its hard enough for most to just get sag/rebound setup right. I know offering products for said market isn't what you are after but I do believe keeping things simple is key. I also believe this isn't car racing - until we all have real onboard telemetry to tell just how well something is working and how fast we are really riding there is just too much personal preference which is *often* a result of just plain getting used to a certain tune.

Food for thought...
c50 profile 1487817150
bturman
9 years ago
kc358, you've got some wires crossed. Changing air pressure does indeed change the spring rate. Here's a graph from RockShox to illustrate this fact:



Spring rate describes the stiffness of a spring and is defined as the (change in force) / (change in displacement). It's usually measured in lbs/in - the pounds of force necessary to compress the spring by one inch. In the graph, note the red and orange lines that represent different pressures in the same volume. In the case of the 100psi red line, we see a change in force of 100lb over 2-inches. The 200psi orange line sees a change of 200lb in those same 2-inches. If the spring rate did not increase as you increase pressure, the change in force over those 2-inches would be the same.

As you noted, almost all air springs have a progressive spring rate, which means that they get stiffer the more they are compressed. As you also noted, yes, changing the volume also increases the spring rate (note the red and blue lines and their respective 100lb increase vs ~200lb increase over 2-inches) - this is why many riders will reduce air pressure by a few psi as they add more Tokens in order to keep a similar sag level and initial stroke feel.

Yes, the force necessary to initially compress the air spring due to the static pressure (breakaway force) also increases as you up the pressure, but RockShox offsets this with their auto-adjusting SoloAir negative spring, The effect of the negative spring isn't shown in this graph, but the breakaway force is reduced by the amount of force created by the negative spring pressure.
2
c50 DSC 0184 Copy 1409590357
kc358
9 years ago
bturman - Thank you for the graph, and it perfectly shows that you are wrong and I am right.
Look at how they both affect the curve. When you change the volume, with the same initial pressure, the slope of the curve changes (mostly evident when looking at the more linear section). THAT is a change in spring rate. The steeper curve takes greater force to compress the same displacement as the shallower curve.
Now look at the difference between air pressures for the same volume. The lines are more or less parallel, the RATE has NOT changed, just the force at that location in the travel. The entire curve is offset, not changing the slope, which is the indication of spring rate.
Why you see a change in rate from a pressure increase is because of the progressiveness in the air spring, it is not completely linear anywhere, so you will always have slight variance. But, as you can clearly see from the graph, volume has a big affect on spring rate, while pressure has a big affect on initial force, and only minor affect on spring rate.

Let me show you my own graphs.
Chart 1: Only a change in volume. A indicates a lower volume than the control. As you can see, they have the same initial pressure, and thus spring force, but as they compress through the travel, the lower volume rises in pressure faster. That is because the steeper slope is a higher spring rate.
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g328/KC358/Chart%201_zpseifaeos6.jp…

Chart 2: Same volume, but B has a higher pressure. See how the slopes are the same, just offset? That is because the pressure does not have a big impact on rate but the preload of the spring.
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g328/KC358/Chart%202_zps9ylhrmd0.jp…

Chart 3: Take that control, lower the volume and lower the pressure. As you can see, with the lower pressure, it starts off at a lower initial breakaway force, but over time overpasses the control because the spring rate is higher. Even with the lower pressure, the spring rate is higher. Why? Spring rate is affected by volume and not pressure.
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g328/KC358/Chart%203_zpsq4xzzcae.jp…

If you would like to see them on the same graph, see here. A is lower volume, B is higher pressure. You can clearly see that the lower volume has a steeper slope than the higher pressure, while higher pressure is nearly the same slope as the control.
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g328/KC358/Chart%205_zpsgsmqentr.jp…

Lastly, back to my design analysis, tell me how to adjust preload, spring rate and progressivity separately with only 2 adjustments?
Want to see what happens when you decrease volume to get a higher spring rate, then create an expanding volume chamber, as I have mentioned in previous comments?
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g328/KC358/Chart%204_zpsbzko617a.jp…
A shows the same lower volume as before. D shows the same volume as A, but about half way through the travel, equalizes pressure with a second chamber that increases volume. See how this method can increase the spring rate, without changing initial breakaway pressure, and not become overly progressive as is normally associated with small volumes?

As you can see, from both my graphs, the ones in the video from this article, and from the Rock Shox graph you posted, volume adjusts spring rate and pressure adjusts preload.
c50 DSC 0184 Copy 1409590357
kc358
9 years ago
jeff.brines - First, read my other post with the graphs and you will see that pressure does not change spring rate, but preload, and that volume does adjust spring rate. You can be pretty sure all you want, but it doesn't matter if physics doesn't agree.

On another note, you keep bringing up how people have a hard enough time adjusting sag and rebound as is, so why would I want to add more adjustments? But you fail to realize that the reason people can't get their settings right is because they aren't given the tools to get them right in the first place. What if you were only given a high speed compression adjuster and told to set your sag right. It doesn't matter how much time you spend playing with that clicker, you won't get the sag right. Why? Because that adjuster does not serve the right function to change sag. In that case, would you not complain that your suspension doesn't have the right/enough adjustments? More complexity will actually make it easier for you to get the suspension setup right. So how do you expect people to set their spring rate, sag and progressivity correctly if they aren't given the tools to do so? It's not because they are too complex, but because they don't have all that they need.
And as I said before, if you actually have the right adjustments, then a simple program, on the website, or a downloadable excel file, is all that is needed for people to type in their weight and have it spit out the recommended volume, air pressure, and secondary air pressure. Then all they have to do is install the right amount of spacers they were just told, set the air pressures to what they were told and DONE. No fighting battles between ramp up and blowing through the stroke, simple settings that work based on mathematical equations. You don't have to guess and check and make compromises like you do now.
Currently you have to test out multiple amounts of spacers, each with multiple amounts of air pressures, to eventually come up with something that works okay, all before starting on compression and rebound. Which will also affect spring settings as well.
OR you could type your weight into a calculator that will give you the amount of spacers, main air pressure and secondary air pressure settings, then all you have to do is put your fork or shock to those settings. Then you are instantly on to compression and rebound settings without having to worry about wrong spring settings messing those up.
Really, what sounds easier to you?
c50 profile 1487817150
bturman
9 years ago
I'm impressed by your enthusiasm.

Re-read my comment with the graph. I don't disagree with you about how a volume change at the same starting pressure will alter the spring rate.

However, the slope (aka spring rate) does indeed change when you up the air pressure. Let's do some very basic math, using the nice orange and red dots at the 2-inch travel mark on the 4-inch chamber lines as an easy reference point.

Rise / Run = Slope

The 4-inch chamber with 200psi rises from 200lbs at 0-inches to 400lbs at 2-inches.
The 4-inch chamber with 100psi rises from 100lbs at 0-inches to 200lbs at 2-inches.

400lbs - 200lbs = 200lbs
200lbs - 100lbs = 100lbs

200lbs (rise) / 2in (run) = 100lbs/in
100lbs (rise) / 2in (run) = 50lbs/in

While they may look "more or less parallel," they're far from it.
2
c50 DSC 0184 Copy 1409590357
kc358
9 years ago
You are choosing to use a graph that was given to you with unknown source of data. As said before, these are extremely simple mathematical equations. I took the time to calculate the data and graph it. Check out the graphs I linked to or do your own.
You are using a HUGE range to find slope. The slope at 0in as drastically different than at 2in in both orange and red. So your data is highly inaccurate. To get the slope, you really need to use an infinitesimally small section of the curve, All your numbers are showing is junk scewed by the progressiveness.

Look at my graphs again and you can see that the difference in slope of normal and high pressure is so minute it is unnoticeable until the very progressive section. on the other hand, the difference in slope between the control and lower volume is very evident. And you are able to get that higher spring rate without adversely affecting the starting breakaway force.
Then if you combine the two, using lower volume and lower pressure, you can get a lower breakaway force than the control, but the higher spring rate passes the control a third of the way through the travel to get the same sag, but holds up the forks through higher spring rate through the travel, so there is less dive and blowing through the stroke. Put in expanding volume and you can get those results without an overly progressive system that would normally cause you to run higher volume that doesn't hold you up, so higher pressure, that causes stiffer ride. It's a dominoes affect.

So, if you actually inspect the data, you will see that the air pressure has very minor affects to spring rate, while volume has major affects to spring rate. So if you use volume to adjust spring rate, you can use air pressure properly to just adjust sag (and not juggle two factors). Then use a technology to reduce ramp up. Then you can finally set up your suspension spring system to work out good rather than half assed.
c50 DSC 0184 Copy 1409590357
kc358
9 years ago
What you said is echoing my point. Lowering the volume has a side effect; it increases compression ratio, which in turn causes additional ramp up.
I said the graphs are correct, the commentator just didn't explain them right. You can see how the spring rate (the force required to compress it a given distance) is changed the ought the travel, in a mostly linear fashion, until the end.
So, from
This you can see that volume adjust is a great tool to change the spring rate of your suspension, in the same way you'd swap coil springs.
Unfortunately this also increases the ramp up at the end and why you always have to run a compromised setup in air suspension. People generally use more air volume than they should to reduce the ramp up and then have to either run higher pressure to hold up in the travel, but lose small bump compliance.

Air springs have spring rate, preload and ramp up. Yet we are only given volume and pressure to adjust. How can you get it right when you have two adjustments to use against 3 variables? You can't.
2
c50 water bike
Dave_Camp
9 years ago
KC-
I think you are confused- the whole purpose of volume reducers is to increase bottom out resistance (ramp up). If you want to "not have too much ramp" remove all volume spacers.


Have you ever ridden a X-Fusion Revel?
c50 DSC 0184 Copy 1409590357
kc358
9 years ago
I am not confused, but can clearly see from your comment that you are.
Explain how you alter spring rate, spring preload and ramp up separately if you only have volume and pressure to adjust?
You can't.
Currently, many manufacturers use volume to adjust ramp up, and thus people like you think that's what you are doing. But, look at the fork graph. What happens when you reduce volume? Your spring rate through the travel increases, as well as bottom out. Volume changes spring rate. Compression ratio changes ramp up.
Therefore, a third tool must be introduced to compensate for ramp up so that volume adjustments don't negatively impact the ramp up.

If you just remove the volume spacers to reduce ramp, you are going to blow through your travel (as shown in this video) because the spring force isn't enough to hold them up the firs 50% of travel. Sure, you could bump up air pressure, then your suspension is not going to absorb any small bumps and you'll just bounce around.
3
c50 IMG 1245 1479447503.jpg?VersionId=Aj2rjTfUQcaFeUyYz7meVw5TZS.poN
bikeboardorblade
9 years ago
That was incredibly well done. Anyone know how many Bottomless Rings come on the M+ Debonair? I bought one for my SB66 and haven't pulled it apart to find out.
c50 149187 936024901533 10205078 50991835 3734911 n
jeff.brines
9 years ago
Generally - zero. Which is a bummer! They are also a bit hard to come by this year.

As B alluded to, the change isn't nearly as marked with respect to the rings on the M+ compared to the Pike. Still, a worthy tuning feature and a bummer they aren't included with every shock.
c50 avatar92
Nicholast
9 years ago
This is a good article and a good representation of the value of the Bottomless feature. This should enlighten a lot of folks who feel they can get more from their suspension.

I want to add a pro tip: in slide #17 where the rider is using a socket to remove the top cap, that socket has had the chamfer on the inside edge of the socket lip machined off. If you use an off the shelf socket, the chamfer will prevent the top cap's hex from seating deep enough in the socket and top cap will be damage/stripped when tightened/loosened. If your socket has not had the chamfer machined off, use a wrench until the top cap can be turned with fingers.

Pro tip #2: The negative chamber on Debonair shocks is huge and it does not equalize with the positive chamber until well into the stroke. So when Brandon advises cycling the shock a few times after filling it from empty, he means it. You will likely have to cycle the shock, add a lot more air (because the negative chamber took much of it), cycle again, add some air, cycle the shock, and then add air. By the third cycle (pun!), you should be close enough to your desired pressure that you can just add air without the cycle, generally speaking. It takes me three cycles and fills from empty before the two chambers reach an equilibrium close enough to my desired pressure, even if I overfilled the first time, but I weigh a lot and run a lot of pressure. Also, these cycles can quickly be done on the shop floor -- no trail time necessary to get the two chambers to equalize.

Edit: grammar and clarity.
3
c50 pin it to win it 5 26 12 23 ZF 2224 31908 1 003
kfarm
9 years ago
I like the way you did this, much more than PinkBike! However, don't you think it's important to explain the relation of low speed compression damping? You just barely hit on it at the very end. To me, you should go just as in depth about LCD as you did the tokens. Most viewers will see this and think it's all about tokens, and not even think to adjust their LCD. Obviously, each case is different, but I think riders need to now the importance and difference of each adjustment.

Otherwise, love the way you did this! Adding the video comparison was a great idea.
1
c50 149187 936024901533 10205078 50991835 3734911 n
jeff.brines
9 years ago
I'll chime in for the hell of it. The range of LSC offered on the Pike is somewhat limited. From what I gather the clinic was in air spring tuning more than anything else - as this is a part of the puzzle that most ignore.

LSC obviously does play into the equation as you imply. With respect to RS products, I've felt LSC is best to play with after dialing in your preferred spring rate. Again, the tuning range for the spring is rather large, not so much for the damping rate (without reshimming the damper).

I've actually started using a bar mounted stop watch to better understand and objectively test suspension changes. One thing is for certain - how good it "feels" is not an indication of how well it allows you to ride...
1
c50 profile 1487817150
bturman
9 years ago
Kfarm, cheers for the feedback. We wanted to focus primarily on getting the air spring and pressure dialed, because it's something many riders overlook and can have the greatest impact on your ride.

According to RockShox, "Low speed compression regulates oil flow in slow compression stroke speed scenarios such as rider weight shifts on the bike, and suspension compression during cornering or transitions." It also affects ride height, smoothness over small bumps, and traction.

After getting the air spring dialed in, if you feel like you're riding low in the travel, try increasing the low speed compression by turning it clockwise (the direction of the plus sign) four clicks and repeating the test ride. If this was too much then turn back two steps counter clockwise.

If things don't feel smooth over small continuous bumps or if the front end has bad traction, back off the low speed compression. Turn counter clockwise four clicks, then retest and make any correction two clicks at the time until you find that sweet spot. If you're unable to find it, chances are good that your air spring isn't set up just right for your terrain or riding style.

As always, when you think you've improved things, it's best to return to your original settings and double check. Be aware of other factors that can impact your ride like tire pressure, temperature, etc, to make sure they don't change things unexpectedly.
c50 pin it to win it 5 26 12 23 ZF 2224 31908 1 003
kfarm
9 years ago
Thanks, Bturman. That's exactly what should have been in the video. My comment wasn't me needing help, I was just saying I think it would help a ton of riders to know everything you said above, along with the video.
avatar.png?VersionId=TkOXSLqxgAC412Y 1F6UyzOaMSkN
odin
9 years ago
Turman you knocked it out of the park!
well done Vital.