We Rode the FOX Pros' Bikes, Prototypes and All

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We Rode the FOX Pros' Bikes, Prototypes and All
By bturman
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<b>Welcome back to Leogang, Austria, where we had the privilege of riding race bikes belonging to Josh Bryceland, Sam Dale, Brook Macdonald, and Gee Atherton.</b>
<b>How can the average joe expect a top World Cup race bike to feel? Vital's own Joe Bowman was on hand to provide some insight.</b>
<b>FOX's Pros are currently testing a prototype RAD rear shock due for production in 2016. It features more adjustments than any FOX rear shock before it, and requires far less IFP pressure too.</b>
<b>The prototype RAD 40 air forks have a different damper, different air spring, and weigh nearly a half pound lighter than current production forks. Some elements will likely go into production in 2016.</b>
<b>Mark Fitzsimmons, FOX's RAD program director, weighs in on what's in store.</b>
<b>FOX keeps a huge catalogue of settings for each rider at every World Cup and from pre-season test camps. Unfortunately detailed damping info on forks and shocks (clicks, etc) wasn't available to us.</b>
<b>First up: Brook "Bulldog" Macdonald and his prototype Trek Session 27.5 carbon.</b>
<b>Brook runs neutral, mid-range settings with an emphasis on balancing the front and rear.</b>
<b>Shock wise, Brook runs the slowest rebound of the four bikes on test.</b>
<b>The media squid contingency joked about whose bike they’d least rather be: Brook's or Sam Dale's… Both riders punish the terrain and are built like small houses. Surprisingly, Brook’s setup seemed quite tame to what you’d expect.</b>
<b>Brook runs a stiff fork with slightly more high speed compression than the other athletes, keeping things fast across the flat sections. The softer rear shock persuaded you to ride more off the back and attack in that classic Bulldog style.</b>
<b>Brook is running things softer than last season to counter his shoulder injury, but progressively getting firmer as weeks go on and speed progresses. Based on his Leogang result they’ll probably be locked out come Meribel!</b>
<b>Another thing you notice instantly on Brook's bike is his low front end with no stem spacers, a slammed headset, and 20mm rise Funn handlebars. This pulls you over the front a tad, maybe trying to even out the effects of the stiff fork vs soft shock?</b>
<b>Sam Dale's prototype 27.5 Saracen Myst DH frame is size XL. It may see a 2015 release to the public. He's running prototype Continental Der Kaiser tires at 26-28 psi.</b>
<b>Sam runs the most fork air pressure out of any FOX athlete on the World Cup circuit, but relatively neutral damping settings. He's come into his own this season with some solid Top 10 results.</b>
<b>He’s not a small lad, standing 6'1" tall and weighing 220 pounds.</b>
<b>Sam runs relatively neutral damping settings to avoid any surprises.</b>
<b>#allthelads</b>
<b>Heading into the first few corners of the bike park section, the braking bumps felt like small land mines. His fork, like expected, was setup very stiff. At the same time the first inch of travel was still super supple.</b>
<b>The rolling speed of the Myst was insane. A stiff setup front and rear, matched with fast rolling Conti tires was hard to control at first and I found myself having to consciously throw my weight forward to counter the size and stiffness.</b>
<b>Leogang is actually quite rough, as my arm pump would attest. Even though the suspension was setup for someone nearly 65 pounds heavier than me, the length of Sam's bike provided a stable ride and I felt at home, especially at speed.</b>
<b>Gee Atherton's GT Fury has seen more wins than any other bike in the test.</b>
<b>Gee's suspension setup varies a bit depending on the track, and he puts a lot of trust in timed sections and runs.</b>
<b>Gee routinely runs the most compression damping out of any FOX athlete.</b>
<b>Out back he runs faster rebound to counter the added compression damping.</b>
<b>I heard rumors about how stiff Gee ran his fork before I jumped aboard, but after a run on Sam Dale’s steed it turned out to be a more gentle ride.</b>
<b>Gee has been adjusting his body position and frame size this season, trying to find that happy medium.</b>
<b>Seeing him on track in real life, week in week out, his bike looks like it has the wheelbase of a small semi truck, but once I threw a leg over it actually felt the same size, if not smaller than Dale’s.</b>
<b>Once again, Gee's bike proved to be a balanced ride with a long reach and wheelbase providing stability at high speed. You're listening to Gee's mechanic Polish Pete in the audio.</b>
<b>Coming into the first wooded section where you see the riders huck into the darkness during the live feed, you’re greeted with huge braking bumps that are primed and ready to blow your feet off those archaic flat pedals.</b>
<b>I instantly noticed the faster rebound in the rear, having to adopt a more off the back riding style much like Gee's.</b>
<b>The fork, in a similar way to Dale’s, felt extremely stiff, but yet again supple in the small bumps backing up FOX's claims.</b>
<b>Out back the small bump sensitivity was also impressive despite Gee's added compression damping.</b>
<b>Josh "Ratboy" Bryceland's Santa Cruz V10 carbon was fresh off his first World Cup win. It's a stock XL frame with prototype Chris King headset cups that shorten the front end a bit. He runs 30-32 psi in his Maxxis Minion DHR 2 tires.</b>
<b>Josh runs the softest fork in terms of pressure and damping on test, but his damping settings are still near the middle of the range.</b>
<b>Ratboy uses more rebound in the shock's end stroke to fight the progressive nature of the VPP linkage on the V10.</b>
<b>Josh likes to keep things simple, which clearly paid off for him at Leogang.</b>
<b>Once he’s setup for the year he prefers not to make many changes unless the conditions or terrain really change dramatically.</b>
<b>Both Josh and Brook provide good feedback when needed, but Fitzy reckons they can both get on and ride most product fast without relying on the tech as much.</b>
<b>It felt like an honor to be able to throw a leg over Josh's bike while it still basked in the remnants of champagne from the day before. I have a size large V10 back home, so Josh’s stock XL didn’t feel alien at all.</b>
<b>Out of the gate the biggest surprise came from Josh's bike. I couldn’t get my head round how soft it felt compared to Gee and Sam’s. At 6'2" tall and weighing 172 pounds I knew it’d be softer, but it felt strangely similar to my personal setup.</b>
<b>I instantly felt at home on the V10, grabbing more traction in turns due the fork actually compressing under my average speed and weight. The 26-inch wheels (#26aintdead) with Dougy Hatfield speed mod hubs kept things rolling fast.</b>
<b>Out of all the bikes tested that day, Ratboy’s would be my 1st choice to race if there was a surprise opening in the Top 80. A soft setup compared to the others, mixed with a low weight and balanced feel allowed me to have fun straight away.</b>
<b>Brook’s would come in a close 2nd with its equally balanced feel and low front end. Gee and Sambo’s were fast, but just so damn stiff I’d need a dentist on standby after each run.</b>
<b>At the end of the day, it was clear that FOX's RAD program is making big advancements in the downhill world, and we can't wait for them to make it to market. Keep an eye on <u>www.ridefox.com</u> for their latest.</b>
foxintro2
What's it like to ride a World Cup race winning downhill bike from an average Joe's perspective?



The morning after the Leogang Downhill World Cup, FOX invited us to ride four of their top athletes' bikes. Untouched since the race the previous day, we were allowed free reign over their rides to see the differences in setup and preferences at the highest level. We’re not sure how they did it after the party that ensued following Ratboy's first World Cup win, but FOX managed to bring along Gee Atherton, Brook Macdonald, Josh Bryceland and Sam Dale along with their bikes and mechanics in tow.



Notably, nothing could be changed on the bikes apart from brake swapping and pedal preference. To keep things even more interesting we were allowed to ride the official World Cup course, or what was left of it from the day before.



We've been riding and shooting downhill for several years now, so we had a pretty good idea what to expect from most of the racers' setups - or so we thought. One thing we predicted was how stiff both the fork and shock were going to be due to the increased speeds they carry compared to mere mortals. To put this theory to the test we sent Vital correspondent Joe Bowman up the lift with all four race bikes...



Keep an eye on www.ridefox.com for their latest and greatest.



Photos by Duncan Philpott and Colin Meagher
10 comments

View replies to: We Rode the FOX Pros' Bikes, Prototypes and All

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onenerdykid*
10 years ago
this was super fun, really interesting to hear about how "soft" Josh runs his bikes compared to the normal super stiff talk that is normally heard
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phutphutend
10 years ago
Surely 'soft' is only relative. The other chaps are bit more weight than skinny Ratboy.

Good article though. Would have been good to hear a little bit about some aspects other than suspension, but I sppose its a Fox branded write up.
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Snfoilhat
10 years ago
Hey Fox or any lurking experts: are high-speed rebound and low-speed rebound really speed-sensitive, or is this terminology just used as an analogy with HSC and LSC, which the public presumably understands or feels comfortable with? I'm having trouble picturing a graph of rebound shaft speed vs spring force. When the shock is bottomed, spring force is maximum, but in that moment of transition between compression and rebound, shaft speed is zero. Then it will rebound very fast in the absence of damping. After a small hit, less spring force is released. But if you have heavy damping, then shaft speeds are slower even deep in the travel, with high spring force. So does the HSR affect the first fraction of a second of a rebound event, and then LSR takes over? Or is it simpler to think of it as position-sensitive? Thanks in advance. This was a rad article.
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jlindy86
10 years ago
I've always thought of high and low speed rebound settings in reference to peak shaft velocities - longer extension cases (full compression to top out) will result in the highest peak shaft velocities so this is where high speed rebound damping adjustment will have the greatest effect, while shorter extension cases (going from sag to top out) will result in lower peak shaft velocities so this is where low speed rebound damping adjustment will have the greatest effect.
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Beezkneez
10 years ago
A simple explanation is that the oil damper controls how much the spring is allowed to move. The oil has two pathways (HSC or LSC) when the fork is compressed and each of these pathways has a "valve" so to speak to regulate when the oil is allowed to take each compression route. Each compression pathway has a separate rebound pathway back to the main chamber which can be regulated (HSR and LSR).

When the shock moves slowly over a small bump the low velocity/impulse/force moves the oil through the low speed compression route. Usually this is stiff on the compression to resist movement (of the spring) and free flowing on the rebound to allow the spring's force to quickly get the shock back to its resting position ready for the next bump.

In the high speed compression situation the high velocity/impulse/force allows the oil to move via the high speed compression route. This route requires that the high speed velocity threshold to be surpassed. Once it is surpassed, the spring is free to move during the compression to soak up the huge drop, but will slowly rebound to resist the spring snapping back to its resting position and bucking the rider.

To answer your question, the high speed and low speed are separate situations and the fork will behave differently according to which path the oil flowed through. No, the LSR doesn't take over from HSR once the damping slows the fork's movement. When the fork is bottomed out the slow rebound damping is taking place because the oil has taken HSC and HSR oil routes.
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