Ok here are my thoughts on MTB tyres:
My setup is singleply tyres with cushcore and tube. It's a tad lighter than my previous setup which...
Ok here are my thoughts on MTB tyres:
My setup is singleply tyres with cushcore and tube. It's a tad lighter than my previous setup which was DH tyres and tubes.
I'm able to run lower pressures for maximum grip without flatting or destroying rims. I used to replace rear rims once a year. For the bikepark I just increase tyre pressure by 3psi front and back.
So typical setup is 2.5/2.6 in tyre with 12-14psi (15-17psi for bikepark) in the front and 15-17psi (18-20psi for bikepark) in the back. I weigh 60kg ~132lb
My favourite all conditions tyre is the Schwalbe Eddy Current front which is like a Magic Mary on steroids. Don't recommend it as a rear as it's very slow rolling.
Best cornering tyre is the Maxxis Assegai in dry conditions. I remove the small middle knobs to make it more of an all conditions tyre as it helps clear wet dirt better.
Best soft conditions tyre is the now extinct WTB Verdict Wet though I recently got the Onza Porcupine RC 2.5 and it's not bad. Might try my previous fav the Schwalbe Dirty Dan again to do a back to back test.
Favorite fast rolling rear tyre I discovered last year Schwalbe Johnny Watts
I don't tend to buy the softest or the stickiest tyres as with my super lower tyre pressures I have enough mechanic grip from casing deformation to allow me to ride off camber roots with ease.
Now I have found that MTB tyres tend to be very square even when you run them on narrower rims. The exceptions I've found are:
-Kenda Hellkat 2.6
-Onza Porcupine RC 2.5
-Assegai 2.5
I would like to see a MTB version of this Schwalbe BMX tyre with bigger knobs:
Anyone have any experience with the Conti Enduro casings as a rear tire? I have the DH casing Kryptotal on my Norco Range, which has served...
Anyone have any experience with the Conti Enduro casings as a rear tire? I have the DH casing Kryptotal on my Norco Range, which has served me well. Yesterday pinch flatted a Maxxis DHR in DD casing on my Stumpy evo, was nearing it's eol on the tread anyways -which means new tire day! A bit weary about getting another DHR in DD, and the DH casing supersoft kryptotal really doesn't pedal that great.
I'm running enduro soft front/rear on my trail bike (135mm travel). I was previously running a trail casing, endurance compound krr in back with a cc...
I'm running enduro soft front/rear on my trail bike (135mm travel). I was previously running a trail casing, endurance compound krr in back with a cc xc insert. I ended up putting a pencil eraser sized hole between the treads on a trail ride in utah, not a surprise, that was an experiment to see how light of a casing I could run (I was warned and found out). I have since switched to enduro/soft krr with an cushcore xc on that bike.
The enduro casing is pretty decent in terms of durability and the soft rubber rolls decently well. I'd say it's comparable to a dd dhr2 with maybe a bit more sidewall support. I can't speak much to the puncture durability of it yet as I only have about 200 miles on it and I don't know if I've made any poor line choices on sharp rocks yet, but so far so good. I feel like if I'm leveling for lowest possible pressure before rim strikes start, the enduro casing will let you run lower pressures then the exo+/dd maxis if that means anything.
So trail casing is a no go for the front in a longer travel bike?
I would advise against it. Trail casing is only available (for now) in the hard endurance casing. I ran that briefly on the front of a mid travel bike and did not like it, grip was very poor. Soft is fine on the front for dry trail speed riding but for wetter trails or higher speeds you gotta go with the conti supersoft front IMO. Excited for them to start offering the supersoft in other casings (just DH for now, damping is great but heavy for a front).
Anyone have any experience with the Conti Enduro casings as a rear tire? I have the DH casing Kryptotal on my Norco Range, which has served...
Anyone have any experience with the Conti Enduro casings as a rear tire? I have the DH casing Kryptotal on my Norco Range, which has served me well. Yesterday pinch flatted a Maxxis DHR in DD casing on my Stumpy evo, was nearing it's eol on the tread anyways -which means new tire day! A bit weary about getting another DHR in DD, and the DH casing supersoft kryptotal really doesn't pedal that great.
I'm running enduro soft front/rear on my trail bike (135mm travel). I was previously running a trail casing, endurance compound krr in back with a cc...
I'm running enduro soft front/rear on my trail bike (135mm travel). I was previously running a trail casing, endurance compound krr in back with a cc xc insert. I ended up putting a pencil eraser sized hole between the treads on a trail ride in utah, not a surprise, that was an experiment to see how light of a casing I could run (I was warned and found out). I have since switched to enduro/soft krr with an cushcore xc on that bike.
The enduro casing is pretty decent in terms of durability and the soft rubber rolls decently well. I'd say it's comparable to a dd dhr2 with maybe a bit more sidewall support. I can't speak much to the puncture durability of it yet as I only have about 200 miles on it and I don't know if I've made any poor line choices on sharp rocks yet, but so far so good. I feel like if I'm leveling for lowest possible pressure before rim strikes start, the enduro casing will let you run lower pressures then the exo+/dd maxis if that means anything.
Thanks! I was running 25 psi on the maxxis DD DHR, must've gotten unlucky on the drop and hit a sharp rock. What pressures are you...
Thanks! I was running 25 psi on the maxxis DD DHR, must've gotten unlucky on the drop and hit a sharp rock. What pressures are you running and if you don't mind how much do you weigh with gear and all? I'm heavy - 200lbs with water and gear.
I weigh 175lbs, but I'm 6'2" so I do end up with a lot of leverage on the bike. I run the enduro soft rear at 22-23 psi with a cushcore xc and I run the front enduro soft at about 20-21 (no xc insert). This is on a 32lb giant trance x advanced 29 (hot damn that's a mouthful). That bike is pretty flexy, only has 135mm of travel and is definitely the kind of bike that rides like it has less travel then it does. I treat it like a true trail bike and for the most part, do 4-5k' of climbing on it where I'm in the back country and leaving a bit of riding steez in the tank in the name of being safe and being pretty tired.
All that to say that if I were to have these tires on something more capable, or riding them in the bike park, I'd likely be at 24-25. I would for sure just start with the same pressures as you were running in the double downs, with the expectation that you should be able to drop 1psi eventually as you get comfortable on them. They absolutely have a more damped feel then maxxis exo/exo+/dd... obviously not quite as much as the dh casing.
I too think the sweet spot for conti will be the enduro casing with the super soft rubber. The trial casing with endurance rubber is for sure fast rolling, but ime the rubber is 'harder' then maxx terra and more in line with maxxis DC. I still think the DC knobs on the maxxis tires squirm a bit more and in some cases, conform to the terrain differently. Again, not better or worse... but I would just have use cases for them based on trail conditions.
Regarding casing, the gap in casing support from trail to enduro is much larger then the gap from enduro to DH. The trail casing is floppier and the tire folds over when not mounted in a rim way, way easier then an exo tires does. Said another way, the trail casing basically won't hold it's shape when off the bike. In contrast, the enduro casing will unfold itself and basically acts more like a wire bead tire when new. When mounted up, I'd be hard pressed to tell a feel difference between an exo rear casing and a conti trail casing. The caveat to that is that I always run a cushcore xc rear insert in lighter duty tires because I always have them mounted to carbon wheels. Now that I think about it, the closest analog that I can think of to how a conti trail casing feels outside of the package is some of the bontrager team issue tires.
Sorry about the long winded post... I am avoiding work and I freekin love changing and playing around with tires.
I don't understand why these companies do more soft rubber/medium casing for the front and a medium rubber/heavy casing for the rear. It seems so obvious- it's the first thing I would roll out with a new line of tires... Are they trying to sell more tires by making people run soft compound rears and have them wear out fast?
I keep bringing up Specialized, but at least they offer a lot of T9 (Grippy rubber) options in their Grid Trail casing (Similar to EXO+), and have a good fastish rolling gravity casing rear tire.
^agree I love tires. haha
I don't understand why these companies do more soft rubber/medium casing for the front and a medium rubber/heavy casing for...
^agree I love tires. haha
I don't understand why these companies do more soft rubber/medium casing for the front and a medium rubber/heavy casing for the rear. It seems so obvious- it's the first thing I would roll out with a new line of tires... Are they trying to sell more tires by making people run soft compound rears and have them wear out fast?
I keep bringing up Specialized, but at least they offer a lot of T9 (Grippy rubber) options in their Grid Trail casing (Similar to EXO+), and have a good fastish rolling gravity casing rear tire.
Yea, it's really shocking that brands only put good rubber on "DH" tires.
And I agree, all front specific tires should come in XC/trail casings with good/soft rubber.
It's really shocking that the Continentals have been out for almost 2 years now(?) and selling like hotcakes (so there's lot of money coming in) and customers/brands/shops have been begging for super soft rubber in at least Enduro casing... and they're still not available. So slow.
On a related note, I think someone said that the Pivot rides were working on new stuff with Conti last year. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a softer rubber compound. Their "Super Soft" feels like a rock compared to Specialized T9 when doing a pinch test. For world cup level riders, Conti super soft is 'soft enough', but for weekend warriors, I actually think something softer would be better, since they're putting way less energy into the rubber/tire. I know grip is not all about softness, just stating that it's obvious, when riding back-to-back how much more Conti Super Soft rubber deflects off roots/rocks then T9.
Ok here are my thoughts on MTB tyres:
My setup is singleply tyres with cushcore and tube. It's a tad lighter than my previous setup which...
Ok here are my thoughts on MTB tyres:
My setup is singleply tyres with cushcore and tube. It's a tad lighter than my previous setup which was DH tyres and tubes.
I'm able to run lower pressures for maximum grip without flatting or destroying rims. I used to replace rear rims once a year. For the bikepark I just increase tyre pressure by 3psi front and back.
So typical setup is 2.5/2.6 in tyre with 12-14psi (15-17psi for bikepark) in the front and 15-17psi (18-20psi for bikepark) in the back. I weigh 60kg ~132lb
My favourite all conditions tyre is the Schwalbe Eddy Current front which is like a Magic Mary on steroids. Don't recommend it as a rear as it's very slow rolling.
Best cornering tyre is the Maxxis Assegai in dry conditions. I remove the small middle knobs to make it more of an all conditions tyre as it helps clear wet dirt better.
Best soft conditions tyre is the now extinct WTB Verdict Wet though I recently got the Onza Porcupine RC 2.5 and it's not bad. Might try my previous fav the Schwalbe Dirty Dan again to do a back to back test.
Favorite fast rolling rear tyre I discovered last year Schwalbe Johnny Watts
I don't tend to buy the softest or the stickiest tyres as with my super lower tyre pressures I have enough mechanic grip from casing deformation to allow me to ride off camber roots with ease.
Now I have found that MTB tyres tend to be very square even when you run them on narrower rims. The exceptions I've found are:
-Kenda Hellkat 2.6
-Onza Porcupine RC 2.5
-Assegai 2.5
I would like to see a MTB version of this Schwalbe BMX tyre with bigger knobs:
Yeah, tried running those super light plastic tubes but ended up tearing off the valves so went back to regular tubes. I do run smaller ones because the cushcore takes up half the tyre anyways.
Not a fan of tubeless because of a) the mess b) burping
can you explain how the heck you get a tube and a cushcore in the tire? tube under the insert? or over it? I'm so confused.
Edit: I've always wanted to silicone glue the bead onto a rim- never be able to burp. Probably throwing the whole thing away when you flat or wear the tire out.
I'm running enduro soft front/rear on my trail bike (135mm travel). I was previously running a trail casing, endurance compound krr in back with a cc...
I'm running enduro soft front/rear on my trail bike (135mm travel). I was previously running a trail casing, endurance compound krr in back with a cc xc insert. I ended up putting a pencil eraser sized hole between the treads on a trail ride in utah, not a surprise, that was an experiment to see how light of a casing I could run (I was warned and found out). I have since switched to enduro/soft krr with an cushcore xc on that bike.
The enduro casing is pretty decent in terms of durability and the soft rubber rolls decently well. I'd say it's comparable to a dd dhr2 with maybe a bit more sidewall support. I can't speak much to the puncture durability of it yet as I only have about 200 miles on it and I don't know if I've made any poor line choices on sharp rocks yet, but so far so good. I feel like if I'm leveling for lowest possible pressure before rim strikes start, the enduro casing will let you run lower pressures then the exo+/dd maxis if that means anything.
I would advise against it. Trail casing is only available (for now) in the hard endurance casing. I ran that briefly on the front of a...
I would advise against it. Trail casing is only available (for now) in the hard endurance casing. I ran that briefly on the front of a mid travel bike and did not like it, grip was very poor. Soft is fine on the front for dry trail speed riding but for wetter trails or higher speeds you gotta go with the conti supersoft front IMO. Excited for them to start offering the supersoft in other casings (just DH for now, damping is great but heavy for a front).
Obviously the question was aimed at the casing only, I'd only consider it if they made a super soft trail tyre. I was thinking about going trail supersoft in the front, enduro soft in the rear. It's really hard to get a combo like this from anyone, there are select options from Maxxis (and put a DD in the rear, which is not great in it's class) and Schwalbe fully covers it. Other than that, hardly anyone does a light grippy tyre to put in the front.
whats everyone's Experience on Argotal's?
I've been using the maxxis & conti setup of assegai/krypotal F and DHR2/Krypotal Re
But seeing as its getting soft in NZ at the moment im finding the limit of these tyres as They get a little bit of mud in between the lugs and basically become slicks in the slow stuff when they cant clear from speed.
I've Been eyeing up some DH casing super soft argotal's (soft rear) as looks like theyll be a good option
Argotal is good, deeper tread than a shorty.
Heard from the UK conti distributor that supersoft enduro casings are still a way off, bit dissapointing. Unless...
Argotal is good, deeper tread than a shorty.
Heard from the UK conti distributor that supersoft enduro casings are still a way off, bit dissapointing. Unless anyone has heard differently ?
Agreed on the Argotals. I ran them on both my trail and ebike this last winter. They're a great loose/wet or mixed conditions tire. The knobs squirm a little bit less than the Shorty on hardpack if conditions change every ride. Even the DH SS is not quite as gummy as MaxxGrip Shorty on wet roots though. On the upside to having to run the DH casing, at least you can run crazy low pressures.
Argotal on the rear is really slow rolling, and set up rear with SS rubber it will wear out VERY fast if your rides involve getting to/from the trails on pavement.
What would be an Assegai/DHR2 combo equivalent tread wise? And then which compound and casing to choose? I get what Maxxis is doing, I got up to speed with Schwalbe, but it would take some research to get up to speed with Specialized's offering...
What would be an Assegai/DHR2 combo equivalent tread wise? And then which compound and casing to choose? I get what Maxxis is doing, I got up...
What would be an Assegai/DHR2 combo equivalent tread wise? And then which compound and casing to choose? I get what Maxxis is doing, I got up to speed with Schwalbe, but it would take some research to get up to speed with Specialized's offering...
What Maxxis compound/casing would you be looking to replace?
Specialized doesn't have anything that can match an Assegai MaxxGrip- if you're looking for front tire grip I think that is still the industry benchmark.
Butcher = DHRII Tread pattern wise
Grid Gravity = DH Casing
Grid Trail = EXO+ Casing
T9 Rubber is their grippiest rubber (not as soft as MaxxGrip) but I think it's an excellent compromise for a rear- rolls faster and lasts much longer than a MaxxGrip. Pair that with an Assegai on front if you can stomach the mis-match.
Don't forget about the Cannibal. Tread pattern wise it's their closest to an Assegai but thrives more at higher speeds than the Assegai IMO. Unfortunately only available right now in the grid gravity casing.
I really loved the Conti stuff but am fully on the Spesh train until they expand their casings/compounds offerings.
can you explain how the heck you get a tube and a cushcore in the tire? tube under the insert? or over it? I'm so confused...
can you explain how the heck you get a tube and a cushcore in the tire? tube under the insert? or over it? I'm so confused.
Edit: I've always wanted to silicone glue the bead onto a rim- never be able to burp. Probably throwing the whole thing away when you flat or wear the tire out.
Tube over the cushcore. You'll need longer valves or a valve extender and you'll need to make a hole through the cushcore for said valve.
I've ran a plethora of Maxxis combos (High Roller 2 front and back, HR2/Aggressor, Asseggai/Aggressor) but have lately gravitated towards Assegai/DHR2 combo, I have started preffering grip to rolling resistance. Trying out Racing Line Michelins was a step too far in regards to rolling resistance and yesterday's first ride back on Maxxis was a pleasant experience rolling resistance wise
I was thinking about moving towards softer compounds (used to run 3C MaxxTerra/DC) and I have been running almost exclusively EXO casings (except the Racing Lines). I run a Cushcore XC in the rear.
Considering comments about DD being quite useless, I'm lost there (if continuing with Maxxis), but overall the thinking was to go a bit tougher in the rear, lightweight in the front, maximum grip in the front, not rock hard in the rear. So Maxxis wise Maxxgrip front, Maxxterra rear, EXO(+) front, DD-ish rear. If I'd go Schwalbe (front runner now bar Specialized), I'd probably go Magic Mary Super Trail front (works without inserts for a 100+ kg friend front and rear), Super Gravity rear, possibly Ultra Soft front, Soft rear. With Conti I guess Enduro casing Soft front and rear is the only option.
FWIW, it's a 160 (well, currently 180...) mm bike, but I'm not the most aggressive rider out there, I had no problems running EXO tires and an insert in the rear for Enduro2, Trans Madeira and Megavalanche racing.
Also, a softer, quicker wearing tyre is not a problem as it looks Maxxis 3C MaxxTerra gets old and hard quite quickly. The new Assegais 3C worked a treat yesterday while I do have some PTSD from the same trail in same conditions where I had ZERO grip on the same tyre. So if it wears out before it gets old it's a plus.
Yea, it's really shocking that brands only put good rubber on "DH" tires.
And I agree, all front specific tires should come in XC/trail casings with...
Yea, it's really shocking that brands only put good rubber on "DH" tires.
And I agree, all front specific tires should come in XC/trail casings with good/soft rubber.
It's really shocking that the Continentals have been out for almost 2 years now(?) and selling like hotcakes (so there's lot of money coming in) and customers/brands/shops have been begging for super soft rubber in at least Enduro casing... and they're still not available. So slow.
On a related note, I think someone said that the Pivot rides were working on new stuff with Conti last year. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a softer rubber compound. Their "Super Soft" feels like a rock compared to Specialized T9 when doing a pinch test. For world cup level riders, Conti super soft is 'soft enough', but for weekend warriors, I actually think something softer would be better, since they're putting way less energy into the rubber/tire. I know grip is not all about softness, just stating that it's obvious, when riding back-to-back how much more Conti Super Soft rubber deflects off roots/rocks then T9.
I'm guessing by 'good rubber' you mean the rubber compound with the best grip. In which case that isn't entirely accurate.
Schwalbe offers Addix Ultrasoft Rubber (best dampening and grip) with Super Trail casing on many tires:
Magic Mary
Tacky Chan
Eddy Current Front
I'm guessing by 'good rubber' you mean the rubber compound with the best grip. In which case that isn't entirely accurate.
Schwalbe offers Addix Ultrasoft Rubber...
I'm guessing by 'good rubber' you mean the rubber compound with the best grip. In which case that isn't entirely accurate.
Schwalbe offers Addix Ultrasoft Rubber (best dampening and grip) with Super Trail casing on many tires:
Magic Mary
Tacky Chan
Eddy Current Front
I don't want to sound disrespectful, because I love the fact that company representatives from Schwalbe and other brands are active in our humble Vital forums, providing useful info and clarification. But with all due respect...
I'm guessing by 'good rubber' you mean the rubber compound with the best grip. In which case that isn't entirely accurate.
Schwalbe offers Addix Ultrasoft Rubber...
I'm guessing by 'good rubber' you mean the rubber compound with the best grip. In which case that isn't entirely accurate.
Schwalbe offers Addix Ultrasoft Rubber (best dampening and grip) with Super Trail casing on many tires:
Magic Mary
Tacky Chan
Eddy Current Front
I don't want to sound disrespectful, because I love the fact that company representatives from Schwalbe and other brands are active in our humble Vital forums...
I don't want to sound disrespectful, because I love the fact that company representatives from Schwalbe and other brands are active in our humble Vital forums, providing useful info and clarification. But with all due respect...
DAMPING
Haha good catch.
Tires don't typically make things wet (that is unless you get really excited about casing technology and rubber compounds).
I'm guessing by 'good rubber' you mean the rubber compound with the best grip. In which case that isn't entirely accurate.
Schwalbe offers Addix Ultrasoft Rubber...
I'm guessing by 'good rubber' you mean the rubber compound with the best grip. In which case that isn't entirely accurate.
Schwalbe offers Addix Ultrasoft Rubber (best dampening and grip) with Super Trail casing on many tires:
Magic Mary
Tacky Chan
Eddy Current Front
I don't want to sound disrespectful, because I love the fact that company representatives from Schwalbe and other brands are active in our humble Vital forums...
I don't want to sound disrespectful, because I love the fact that company representatives from Schwalbe and other brands are active in our humble Vital forums, providing useful info and clarification. But with all due respect...
Haha good catch.
Tires don't typically make things wet (that is unless you get really excited about casing technology and rubber compounds).
Ultra soft does handle damp or wet conditions well. Soft works well on the rear.
An Ultra soft Magic Mary with the Tacky Chan side knobs (the new prototype spied at WCs appears similar to this) would be the perfect year round tire for me. As it is Magic Mary in Fall /Winter softer conditions, Tacky Chan for the Spring / Summer as trails get dry and hard.
I'm guessing by 'good rubber' you mean the rubber compound with the best grip. In which case that isn't entirely accurate.
Schwalbe offers Addix Ultrasoft Rubber...
I'm guessing by 'good rubber' you mean the rubber compound with the best grip. In which case that isn't entirely accurate.
Schwalbe offers Addix Ultrasoft Rubber (best dampening and grip) with Super Trail casing on many tires:
Magic Mary
Tacky Chan
Eddy Current Front
Do you offer anything in Super DH casing that does NOT have addix ultrasoft rubber?
An extremely durable rear focused tire? And the bike park versions don’t count- I tried one, was scary bad.
Tacky Chan with super DH casing and addix soft or one down from there would be great.
I'm guessing by 'good rubber' you mean the rubber compound with the best grip. In which case that isn't entirely accurate.
Schwalbe offers Addix Ultrasoft Rubber...
I'm guessing by 'good rubber' you mean the rubber compound with the best grip. In which case that isn't entirely accurate.
Schwalbe offers Addix Ultrasoft Rubber (best dampening and grip) with Super Trail casing on many tires:
Magic Mary
Tacky Chan
Eddy Current Front
Do you offer anything in Super DH casing that does NOT have addix ultrasoft rubber?
An extremely durable rear focused tire? And the bike park versions...
Do you offer anything in Super DH casing that does NOT have addix ultrasoft rubber?
An extremely durable rear focused tire? And the bike park versions don’t count- I tried one, was scary bad.
Tacky Chan with super DH casing and addix soft or one down from there would be great.
You can get tacky chans in super gravity soft but only in 27.5 which is annoying.
I'm guessing by 'good rubber' you mean the rubber compound with the best grip. In which case that isn't entirely accurate.
Schwalbe offers Addix Ultrasoft Rubber...
I'm guessing by 'good rubber' you mean the rubber compound with the best grip. In which case that isn't entirely accurate.
Schwalbe offers Addix Ultrasoft Rubber (best dampening and grip) with Super Trail casing on many tires:
Magic Mary
Tacky Chan
Eddy Current Front
Do you offer anything in Super DH casing that does NOT have addix ultrasoft rubber?
An extremely durable rear focused tire? And the bike park versions...
Do you offer anything in Super DH casing that does NOT have addix ultrasoft rubber?
An extremely durable rear focused tire? And the bike park versions don’t count- I tried one, was scary bad.
Tacky Chan with super DH casing and addix soft or one down from there would be great.
I saw that... But why is it not the Super DH casing?
They have to figure that model (27.5/soft) is going on the rear of...
I saw that... But why is it not the Super DH casing?
They have to figure that model (27.5/soft) is going on the rear of a DH or Enduro bike- I want the toughest casing for the rear tire.
Have you tried the Super Gravity Casing? It is pretty tough, certainly enough for the majority of riders who aren't racing World Cup DH.
4 layers of 67 epi carcass, bead-to-bead puncture protection, and supportive layer halfway up the sidewall.
As for durability in a tread pattern, it's hard to beat the Eddy Current Rear.
Its pretty easy to imagine how fast SKU counts can multiply when you think of all the combinations between Tread, Casing and Rubber (nevermind size).
This is a large reason why Schwalbe didn't initially come out with a 29x2.4 Tacky Chan Super Gravity Soft.
Thanks for the explanation... I get the SKU issue, just thought a durable/faster rolling rear tire would be one of the first SKUs planned for. I'm surprised OEMs don't ask for it- maybe a weight issue?
Inserts and tubes? Seriously?
I would advise against it. Trail casing is only available (for now) in the hard endurance casing. I ran that briefly on the front of a mid travel bike and did not like it, grip was very poor. Soft is fine on the front for dry trail speed riding but for wetter trails or higher speeds you gotta go with the conti supersoft front IMO. Excited for them to start offering the supersoft in other casings (just DH for now, damping is great but heavy for a front).
I weigh 175lbs, but I'm 6'2" so I do end up with a lot of leverage on the bike. I run the enduro soft rear at 22-23 psi with a cushcore xc and I run the front enduro soft at about 20-21 (no xc insert). This is on a 32lb giant trance x advanced 29 (hot damn that's a mouthful). That bike is pretty flexy, only has 135mm of travel and is definitely the kind of bike that rides like it has less travel then it does. I treat it like a true trail bike and for the most part, do 4-5k' of climbing on it where I'm in the back country and leaving a bit of riding steez in the tank in the name of being safe and being pretty tired.
All that to say that if I were to have these tires on something more capable, or riding them in the bike park, I'd likely be at 24-25. I would for sure just start with the same pressures as you were running in the double downs, with the expectation that you should be able to drop 1psi eventually as you get comfortable on them. They absolutely have a more damped feel then maxxis exo/exo+/dd... obviously not quite as much as the dh casing.
I too think the sweet spot for conti will be the enduro casing with the super soft rubber. The trial casing with endurance rubber is for sure fast rolling, but ime the rubber is 'harder' then maxx terra and more in line with maxxis DC. I still think the DC knobs on the maxxis tires squirm a bit more and in some cases, conform to the terrain differently. Again, not better or worse... but I would just have use cases for them based on trail conditions.
Regarding casing, the gap in casing support from trail to enduro is much larger then the gap from enduro to DH. The trail casing is floppier and the tire folds over when not mounted in a rim way, way easier then an exo tires does. Said another way, the trail casing basically won't hold it's shape when off the bike. In contrast, the enduro casing will unfold itself and basically acts more like a wire bead tire when new. When mounted up, I'd be hard pressed to tell a feel difference between an exo rear casing and a conti trail casing. The caveat to that is that I always run a cushcore xc rear insert in lighter duty tires because I always have them mounted to carbon wheels. Now that I think about it, the closest analog that I can think of to how a conti trail casing feels outside of the package is some of the bontrager team issue tires.
Sorry about the long winded post... I am avoiding work and I freekin love changing and playing around with tires.
^agree I love tires. haha
I don't understand why these companies do more soft rubber/medium casing for the front and a medium rubber/heavy casing for the rear. It seems so obvious- it's the first thing I would roll out with a new line of tires... Are they trying to sell more tires by making people run soft compound rears and have them wear out fast?
I keep bringing up Specialized, but at least they offer a lot of T9 (Grippy rubber) options in their Grid Trail casing (Similar to EXO+), and have a good fastish rolling gravity casing rear tire.
Yea, it's really shocking that brands only put good rubber on "DH" tires.
And I agree, all front specific tires should come in XC/trail casings with good/soft rubber.
It's really shocking that the Continentals have been out for almost 2 years now(?) and selling like hotcakes (so there's lot of money coming in) and customers/brands/shops have been begging for super soft rubber in at least Enduro casing... and they're still not available. So slow.
On a related note, I think someone said that the Pivot rides were working on new stuff with Conti last year. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a softer rubber compound. Their "Super Soft" feels like a rock compared to Specialized T9 when doing a pinch test. For world cup level riders, Conti super soft is 'soft enough', but for weekend warriors, I actually think something softer would be better, since they're putting way less energy into the rubber/tire. I know grip is not all about softness, just stating that it's obvious, when riding back-to-back how much more Conti Super Soft rubber deflects off roots/rocks then T9.
Yeah, tried running those super light plastic tubes but ended up tearing off the valves so went back to regular tubes. I do run smaller ones because the cushcore takes up half the tyre anyways.
Not a fan of tubeless because of a) the mess b) burping
can you explain how the heck you get a tube and a cushcore in the tire? tube under the insert? or over it? I'm so confused.
Edit: I've always wanted to silicone glue the bead onto a rim- never be able to burp. Probably throwing the whole thing away when you flat or wear the tire out.
Obviously the question was aimed at the casing only, I'd only consider it if they made a super soft trail tyre. I was thinking about going trail supersoft in the front, enduro soft in the rear. It's really hard to get a combo like this from anyone, there are select options from Maxxis (and put a DD in the rear, which is not great in it's class) and Schwalbe fully covers it. Other than that, hardly anyone does a light grippy tyre to put in the front.
whats everyone's Experience on Argotal's?
I've been using the maxxis & conti setup of assegai/krypotal F and DHR2/Krypotal Re
But seeing as its getting soft in NZ at the moment im finding the limit of these tyres as They get a little bit of mud in between the lugs and basically become slicks in the slow stuff when they cant clear from speed.
I've Been eyeing up some DH casing super soft argotal's (soft rear) as looks like theyll be a good option
Argotal is good, deeper tread than a shorty.
Heard from the UK conti distributor that supersoft enduro casings are still a way off, bit dissapointing. Unless anyone has heard differently ?
Will I really have to go Schwalbe? So many hats eaten lately...
What's next, running Fox suspension??
Agreed on the Argotals. I ran them on both my trail and ebike this last winter. They're a great loose/wet or mixed conditions tire. The knobs squirm a little bit less than the Shorty on hardpack if conditions change every ride. Even the DH SS is not quite as gummy as MaxxGrip Shorty on wet roots though. On the upside to having to run the DH casing, at least you can run crazy low pressures.
Argotal on the rear is really slow rolling, and set up rear with SS rubber it will wear out VERY fast if your rides involve getting to/from the trails on pavement.
You should seriously check out the Specialized tires. I've been really pleased with them and the prices are very affordable.
What would be an Assegai/DHR2 combo equivalent tread wise? And then which compound and casing to choose? I get what Maxxis is doing, I got up to speed with Schwalbe, but it would take some research to get up to speed with Specialized's offering...
What Maxxis compound/casing would you be looking to replace?
Specialized doesn't have anything that can match an Assegai MaxxGrip- if you're looking for front tire grip I think that is still the industry benchmark.
Butcher = DHRII Tread pattern wise
Grid Gravity = DH Casing
Grid Trail = EXO+ Casing
T9 Rubber is their grippiest rubber (not as soft as MaxxGrip) but I think it's an excellent compromise for a rear- rolls faster and lasts much longer than a MaxxGrip. Pair that with an Assegai on front if you can stomach the mis-match.
Don't forget about the Cannibal. Tread pattern wise it's their closest to an Assegai but thrives more at higher speeds than the Assegai IMO. Unfortunately only available right now in the grid gravity casing.
I really loved the Conti stuff but am fully on the Spesh train until they expand their casings/compounds offerings.
Tube over the cushcore. You'll need longer valves or a valve extender and you'll need to make a hole through the cushcore for said valve.
I've ran a plethora of Maxxis combos (High Roller 2 front and back, HR2/Aggressor, Asseggai/Aggressor) but have lately gravitated towards Assegai/DHR2 combo, I have started preffering grip to rolling resistance. Trying out Racing Line Michelins was a step too far in regards to rolling resistance and yesterday's first ride back on Maxxis was a pleasant experience rolling resistance wise
I was thinking about moving towards softer compounds (used to run 3C MaxxTerra/DC) and I have been running almost exclusively EXO casings (except the Racing Lines). I run a Cushcore XC in the rear.
Considering comments about DD being quite useless, I'm lost there (if continuing with Maxxis), but overall the thinking was to go a bit tougher in the rear, lightweight in the front, maximum grip in the front, not rock hard in the rear. So Maxxis wise Maxxgrip front, Maxxterra rear, EXO(+) front, DD-ish rear. If I'd go Schwalbe (front runner now bar Specialized), I'd probably go Magic Mary Super Trail front (works without inserts for a 100+ kg friend front and rear), Super Gravity rear, possibly Ultra Soft front, Soft rear. With Conti I guess Enduro casing Soft front and rear is the only option.
FWIW, it's a 160 (well, currently 180...) mm bike, but I'm not the most aggressive rider out there, I had no problems running EXO tires and an insert in the rear for Enduro2, Trans Madeira and Megavalanche racing.
Also, a softer, quicker wearing tyre is not a problem as it looks Maxxis 3C MaxxTerra gets old and hard quite quickly. The new Assegais 3C worked a treat yesterday while I do have some PTSD from the same trail in same conditions where I had ZERO grip on the same tyre. So if it wears out before it gets old it's a plus.
I'm guessing by 'good rubber' you mean the rubber compound with the best grip. In which case that isn't entirely accurate.
Schwalbe offers Addix Ultrasoft Rubber (best dampening and grip) with Super Trail casing on many tires:
Magic Mary
Tacky Chan
Eddy Current Front
I don't want to sound disrespectful, because I love the fact that company representatives from Schwalbe and other brands are active in our humble Vital forums, providing useful info and clarification. But with all due respect...
DAMPING
Haha good catch.
Tires don't typically make things wet (that is unless you get really excited about casing technology and rubber compounds).
Ultra soft does handle damp or wet conditions well. Soft works well on the rear.
An Ultra soft Magic Mary with the Tacky Chan side knobs (the new prototype spied at WCs appears similar to this) would be the perfect year round tire for me. As it is Magic Mary in Fall /Winter softer conditions, Tacky Chan for the Spring / Summer as trails get dry and hard.
Do you offer anything in Super DH casing that does NOT have addix ultrasoft rubber?
An extremely durable rear focused tire? And the bike park versions don’t count- I tried one, was scary bad.
Tacky Chan with super DH casing and addix soft or one down from there would be great.
You can get tacky chans in super gravity soft but only in 27.5 which is annoying.
I saw that... But why is it not the Super DH casing?
They have to figure that model (27.5/soft) is going on the rear of a DH or Enduro bike- I want the toughest casing for the rear tire.
I'm running the tacky chan super gravity soft 27.5 on the back of my enduro bike and really liking it fwiw
Have you tried the Super Gravity Casing? It is pretty tough, certainly enough for the majority of riders who aren't racing World Cup DH.
4 layers of 67 epi carcass, bead-to-bead puncture protection, and supportive layer halfway up the sidewall.
As for durability in a tread pattern, it's hard to beat the Eddy Current Rear.
Its pretty easy to imagine how fast SKU counts can multiply when you think of all the combinations between Tread, Casing and Rubber (nevermind size).
This is a large reason why Schwalbe didn't initially come out with a 29x2.4 Tacky Chan Super Gravity Soft.
Thanks for the explanation... I get the SKU issue, just thought a durable/faster rolling rear tire would be one of the first SKUs planned for. I'm surprised OEMs don't ask for it- maybe a weight issue?
Seems as logical as a high grip light casing tyre...
Post a reply to: Tire chat (nerds only)