I'm keen to try any brand that interests me. If I like what you're doing I'd be keen to try it.
Having been to demo events like Outerbike, it's a really good way to start building loyalty to brands. You can try one thing after the other and see what you like and what you didn't. It's a cool experience to work, and be a customer at.
There’s one element you’re forgetting if you do your own work. I have the tools, small parts, lubricants, etc to maintain certain brands and therefore I...More
There’s one element you’re forgetting if you do your own work. I have the tools, small parts, lubricants, etc to maintain certain brands and therefore I tend to choose them. I’m a big believer in using the right tool for the job when possible so I tend to stick with the same brands when possible so that I can easily maintain.
Believing in their mission (Frameworks), supporting local brands (Pivot) or just using products that I’ve found to be superior and worth the additional cost (Trickstuff) also makes a difference but being able to maintain without worry and stock the appropriate backup parts is just as or more important. Don’t care, at all, about anything that others might think about my stuff, good, bad or indifferent. I will buy other brands and products but those purchases get a lot more thought than go to brands do.
Serious question out of sincere curiousity, what is the mission of frameworks that you support?
Im pretty loyal to whatever I can get a deal on these days....
If a company treats ya right when you have an issue im 100% more likely going to buy from them again.
Seems like most stuff is pretty good but there are preferences for sure. Shimano makes really good stuff, four or five years ago Fox seemed to be really getting after it but after the x2 and some pretty lack luster development I'm trying to swap everything to ohlins.
DT and I9 have never done me wrong and make some pretty hardy product.
Im pretty loyal to whatever I can get a deal on these days....If a company treats ya right when you have an issue im 100% more...More
Im pretty loyal to whatever I can get a deal on these days....
If a company treats ya right when you have an issue im 100% more likely going to buy from them again.
Seems like most stuff is pretty good but there are preferences for sure. Shimano makes really good stuff, four or five years ago Fox seemed to be really getting after it but after the x2 and some pretty lack luster development I'm trying to swap everything to ohlins.
DT and I9 have never done me wrong and make some pretty hardy product.
Sram brakes are a never ever from me.....
You gotta get on the maven Train mate, Knock ya socks off, literally.
Personally, Oneup is the main brand I would say I'm loyal to. Their posts and bars specifically are absolutely amazing for the price. Also, shoutout to MTX braking for the killer CS, excellent experience there. One brand I will not be buying from in the future will be Knolly. waited 12.5 months for a replacement frame (didn't even end up with the right model) and they treated me like crap the WHOLE time. Sucks bc their products are solid but there's no way I could justify going through that experience again.
Serious question out of sincere curiousity, what is the mission of frameworks that you support?
An experienced downhill rider basically becoming a self taught engineer, documenting his successes and failures for the world to see, producing the bike he thinks is best and bringing it to the World Cup stage successfully. If you thought by mission I meant “saving the world” or “curing cancer” well, I didnt 😂 This just MTB after all. I just meant that I appreciate the transparency, efforts and clear direction Neko is attempting to hit and the way he takes it heart.
Brands like Frameworks and Atherton take on a whole different perspective and continue a long tradition of the riders innovating the next wave of bikes.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m good with the average Joe startup as well and often try to support those places too if they provide a compelling vision or story.
If I were to estimate it, I would guess that 85%+ of the money I spend on the sport goes to brands like Pivot, SRAM and Specialized. That’s fine, it is just important to me to find ways to support the small brands as well. Hopefully that answers your question.
My preference relies on feel and performance, how well a bike is made and the warranty
I’ve chosen an Evil the delta system feels amazing
Lifetime warranty, which is really good unlike the rumors online, easy to service, cable routing is guided and well made, it looks sick, I had 0 issues in almost 4 years, and if the next one is an improvement I might get it, otherwise I won’t and be happy with this experience I’ve had.
Been riding commencal frames since 2010 if not mistaken, both Metas and Supremes. Other than that, everything is according with the budget, although I used avid brakes for a long time until switching to Hope (not leaving those for a while for sure). And now that I think of, dont recall using shimano ever, other than in the road bike.
Sometimes Commencal engineers make some odd choices, but I think Max story (all the stuff with Sunn and building another successful brand) keeps me from moving away from them.
I'm 198cm/6'5". I'm loyal to whichever brand makes a properly designed bike that fits me. So kudos out there to Nicolai/Geometron, Yeti, Santa Cruz, Transition, Atherton and Contra for making proper XXLs (and the brands like Norco and Knolly whose newer models in XL border on gigantic). And a big "just when did you plan on doing it?" to Specialized who still hasn't released the Enduro carbon in S6 - but don't worry it's too late now I wouldn't buy one even if you did.
I say you will never find anything better if don't try anything different. But you can get burned every once in a while when you try different brands. With brakes I see large differences in feel so I get why some people only run certain brands of brakes. I try different brands often myself
Currently looking at buying a new enduro rig this winter…and I can see brand loyalty coming into play for sure. I’ve owned a couple Norco and banshee bikes. Love my phantom and enjoyed the last gen sight. I really really like everything about the Kavenz vhp platform, and currently plan on that as my next purchase…however sticking with banshee and getting a titan is constantly nagging at me lol. Or I could get a good deal on a sight at my local shop…. Component wise I’m loyal to the best deal/happy to try new things out.
DeVinci (especially their rep based in Pemberton)do it for me-when my Chainsaw developed a crack whilst on holiday in Whistler the Pemby Bike Co and the Devinci rep sorted me out with a new frame in two days,Stunning service from companies that obviously care about customer service.
An experienced downhill rider basically becoming a self taught engineer, documenting his successes and failures for the world to see, producing the bike he thinks is...More
An experienced downhill rider basically becoming a self taught engineer, documenting his successes and failures for the world to see, producing the bike he thinks is best and bringing it to the World Cup stage successfully. If you thought by mission I meant “saving the world” or “curing cancer” well, I didnt 😂 This just MTB after all. I just meant that I appreciate the transparency, efforts and clear direction Neko is attempting to hit and the way he takes it heart.
Brands like Frameworks and Atherton take on a whole different perspective and continue a long tradition of the riders innovating the next wave of bikes.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m good with the average Joe startup as well and often try to support those places too if they provide a compelling vision or story.
If I were to estimate it, I would guess that 85%+ of the money I spend on the sport goes to brands like Pivot, SRAM and Specialized. That’s fine, it is just important to me to find ways to support the small brands as well. Hopefully that answers your question.
Thanks. I suppose I'm fascinated with the fascination with Frameworks. I would think there are not all that many people who pay for their frames (i.e., not sponsors, employee discount, or mommy and daddy), can afford such an incredibly expensive frame, and are fast enough that the frame is a good choice for them. But, even if you imagine the whole thing without Asa, it's been a creative and brilliant way to make a bike for the highest level of racing while simultaneously create value for sponsors by generating a tremendous amount of attention.
It dismays me to see such an elegant and purposeful bike turned into something of a veblen good. But the main reason that some of the fanboy vibe rubs me the wrong way (and I'm not saying this is you) is that I think Neko deserves to be treated like any other bike designer or manufacturer. In other words, we should pick the bike over for strengths and weaknesses and question decisions and choices. He put in all the hard work to educate himself and get a bike to market that he believed in and was passionate about. He didn't slap his name on a catalog frame.
To be clear, I think it's marvelous and refreshing how humble and transparent Neko has been throughout the process. I've learned a lot, and I hope he and Logan sell a ton of these frames and keep giving us insights along the way.
The only company i 100% is Hope. They make really good stuff but mainly they have the best customer service I have experienced from any company ever (not just biking). Not only that but they have the Hope Academy bike scheme for kids as well as actually supporting their products for years to come with spare parts (many companies often make stuff obsolete within 12 months).
Also had great service from a Transition over the years and their bikes are great as well.
Thanks. I suppose I'm fascinated with the fascination with Frameworks. I would think there are not all that many people who pay for their frames...More
Thanks. I suppose I'm fascinated with the fascination with Frameworks. I would think there are not all that many people who pay for their frames (i.e., not sponsors, employee discount, or mommy and daddy), can afford such an incredibly expensive frame, and are fast enough that the frame is a good choice for them. But, even if you imagine the whole thing without Asa, it's been a creative and brilliant way to make a bike for the highest level of racing while simultaneously create value for sponsors by generating a tremendous amount of attention.
It dismays me to see such an elegant and purposeful bike turned into something of a veblen good. But the main reason that some of the fanboy vibe rubs me the wrong way (and I'm not saying this is you) is that I think Neko deserves to be treated like any other bike designer or manufacturer. In other words, we should pick the bike over for strengths and weaknesses and question decisions and choices. He put in all the hard work to educate himself and get a bike to market that he believed in and was passionate about. He didn't slap his name on a catalog frame.
To be clear, I think it's marvelous and refreshing how humble and transparent Neko has been throughout the process. I've learned a lot, and I hope he and Logan sell a ton of these frames and keep giving us insights along the way.
All of this is fair and I have no problem with you having that opinion. I bought it as much to support Frameworks as I did to have a new downhill bike because I like supporting certain stories and, while I don’t know him personally, I know some people who do and without exception they have nothing but great things to say about him. This is all consistent with the guy I hear on podcasts, see in YouTube videos and the guy who took the time to send me an email with some questions on how I had setup my bike and to make sure it would be as solid as he intended.
So, to be clear, I am not fast enough to justify this bike. I used to have a Pivot Phoenix and couldn’t justify that either. I will say that the Frameworks bike just seems to eat up everything and it is almost too much for my skill on really difficult trails. Basically you don’t feel anything as it seems to just glide over all but the most extreme chunk making it somewhat difficult for someone of my skill level (intermediate plus, no problem with blacks and can handle most double blacks just fine if a bit slower than really good riders) to hit the lines I want. Ok, I’ll only use it maybe 5-10 times/year anyway.
I look forward to the Enduro bike as that one will be a mini-downhill bike most likely and maybe it’ll help me get the training wheels off the downhill bike.
I’m fortunate enough that buying this was not a financial burden and, honestly, it is by far the least expensive MTB I own.
I guess the only place I slightly disagree is that they should be treated like any other manufacturer. They are not Specialized, Santa Cruz or even Pivot. The customer service level is different because they only solid like 60 of these frames in the original run. I know I was the only buyer in AZ. If people like me can give them support and they reach those levels (not going to happen) then I would agree completely. I do however think that anyone that has any financial impact from buying his frame or is doing with serious racing in mind should take the critical eye you suggest.
I really wasn't meaning to direct anything negative at you. No one really cares how fast you or me can get down a trail. Hell, in the grand scheme of things, very, very, very few people care how fast Aumary or Loic can get down a trail, thus the current state of downhill. My crass thought process on buying a frame is to narrow it down to choices that make sense and then buy whatever gets my juices flowing the most. We ought be excited about the bikes we own.
Neko definitely reminds of Ben Cathro: based on what you see online and hear, the main thing to dislike seems to be how ridiculously likable he is. If reviewers would push him on certain decisions and aspects, I bet he'd give a thoughtful and transparent answer from which we'd learn something.
I like working on my own bikes, but I hate doing unnecessary maintenance. I appreciate stuff that just works, and really like brands with thorough and detailed documentation, and available service parts. I also like having the same components (or very similar) across my bikes so that when I jump from one to the other, they feel familiar (especially contact points/controls). Great warranties are nice for peace of mind, but if you have to use them constantly that's frustrating. For a bit, I was really focused on trying to get stuff made in North America or Europe, but honestly a lot of it was worse quality than stuff made in Taiwan, so now it's just a "nice to have" feature to me. I don't care a ton about splashy colors or anodizing. After years of fretting over some parts being a few bucks less than another, now I whole-heartedly subscribe to the philosophy of "cry once, buy once."
I'd say I have brand loyalty to: Santa Cruz (frames and wheels), DT Swiss (hubs), RockShox (suspension), SRAM (drivetrain), Hayes (brakes), OneUp (bars, tools), Ergon (grips & saddles). Not to say they're the absolute best, or that there isn't better stuff out there, just that I feel I can rely on these.
I'm keen to try any brand that interests me. If I like what you're doing I'd be keen to try it.
Having been to demo events like Outerbike, it's a really good way to start building loyalty to brands. You can try one thing after the other and see what you like and what you didn't. It's a cool experience to work, and be a customer at.
Serious question out of sincere curiousity, what is the mission of frameworks that you support?
Im pretty loyal to whatever I can get a deal on these days....
If a company treats ya right when you have an issue im 100% more likely going to buy from them again.
Seems like most stuff is pretty good but there are preferences for sure. Shimano makes really good stuff, four or five years ago Fox seemed to be really getting after it but after the x2 and some pretty lack luster development I'm trying to swap everything to ohlins.
DT and I9 have never done me wrong and make some pretty hardy product.
Sram brakes are a never ever from me.....
You gotta get on the maven Train mate, Knock ya socks off, literally.
Personally, Oneup is the main brand I would say I'm loyal to. Their posts and bars specifically are absolutely amazing for the price. Also, shoutout to MTX braking for the killer CS, excellent experience there. One brand I will not be buying from in the future will be Knolly. waited 12.5 months for a replacement frame (didn't even end up with the right model) and they treated me like crap the WHOLE time. Sucks bc their products are solid but there's no way I could justify going through that experience again.
An experienced downhill rider basically becoming a self taught engineer, documenting his successes and failures for the world to see, producing the bike he thinks is best and bringing it to the World Cup stage successfully. If you thought by mission I meant “saving the world” or “curing cancer” well, I didnt 😂 This just MTB after all. I just meant that I appreciate the transparency, efforts and clear direction Neko is attempting to hit and the way he takes it heart.
Brands like Frameworks and Atherton take on a whole different perspective and continue a long tradition of the riders innovating the next wave of bikes.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m good with the average Joe startup as well and often try to support those places too if they provide a compelling vision or story.
If I were to estimate it, I would guess that 85%+ of the money I spend on the sport goes to brands like Pivot, SRAM and Specialized. That’s fine, it is just important to me to find ways to support the small brands as well. Hopefully that answers your question.
There’s no such a thing for me
My preference relies on feel and performance, how well a bike is made and the warranty
I’ve chosen an Evil the delta system feels amazing
Lifetime warranty, which is really good unlike the rumors online, easy to service, cable routing is guided and well made, it looks sick, I had 0 issues in almost 4 years, and if the next one is an improvement I might get it, otherwise I won’t and be happy with this experience I’ve had.
Been riding commencal frames since 2010 if not mistaken, both Metas and Supremes. Other than that, everything is according with the budget, although I used avid brakes for a long time until switching to Hope (not leaving those for a while for sure). And now that I think of, dont recall using shimano ever, other than in the road bike.
Sometimes Commencal engineers make some odd choices, but I think Max story (all the stuff with Sunn and building another successful brand) keeps me from moving away from them.
I'm 198cm/6'5". I'm loyal to whichever brand makes a properly designed bike that fits me. So kudos out there to Nicolai/Geometron, Yeti, Santa Cruz, Transition, Atherton and Contra for making proper XXLs (and the brands like Norco and Knolly whose newer models in XL border on gigantic). And a big "just when did you plan on doing it?" to Specialized who still hasn't released the Enduro carbon in S6 - but don't worry it's too late now I wouldn't buy one even if you did.
I say you will never find anything better if don't try anything different. But you can get burned every once in a while when you try different brands. With brakes I see large differences in feel so I get why some people only run certain brands of brakes. I try different brands often myself
Currently looking at buying a new enduro rig this winter…and I can see brand loyalty coming into play for sure. I’ve owned a couple Norco and banshee bikes. Love my phantom and enjoyed the last gen sight.
I really really like everything about the Kavenz vhp platform, and currently plan on that as my next purchase…however sticking with banshee and getting a titan is constantly nagging at me lol. Or I could get a good deal on a sight at my local shop….
Component wise I’m loyal to the best deal/happy to try new things out.
DeVinci (especially their rep based in Pemberton)do it for me-when my Chainsaw developed a crack whilst on holiday in Whistler the Pemby Bike Co and the Devinci rep sorted me out with a new frame in two days,Stunning service from companies that obviously care about customer service.
I’m loyaly not buying orange bikes, other than that whatever works in my price bracket
Thanks. I suppose I'm fascinated with the fascination with Frameworks. I would think there are not all that many people who pay for their frames (i.e., not sponsors, employee discount, or mommy and daddy), can afford such an incredibly expensive frame, and are fast enough that the frame is a good choice for them. But, even if you imagine the whole thing without Asa, it's been a creative and brilliant way to make a bike for the highest level of racing while simultaneously create value for sponsors by generating a tremendous amount of attention.
It dismays me to see such an elegant and purposeful bike turned into something of a veblen good. But the main reason that some of the fanboy vibe rubs me the wrong way (and I'm not saying this is you) is that I think Neko deserves to be treated like any other bike designer or manufacturer. In other words, we should pick the bike over for strengths and weaknesses and question decisions and choices. He put in all the hard work to educate himself and get a bike to market that he believed in and was passionate about. He didn't slap his name on a catalog frame.
To be clear, I think it's marvelous and refreshing how humble and transparent Neko has been throughout the process. I've learned a lot, and I hope he and Logan sell a ton of these frames and keep giving us insights along the way.
The only company i 100% is Hope. They make really good stuff but mainly they have the best customer service I have experienced from any company ever (not just biking). Not only that but they have the Hope Academy bike scheme for kids as well as actually supporting their products for years to come with spare parts (many companies often make stuff obsolete within 12 months).
Also had great service from a Transition over the years and their bikes are great as well.
All of this is fair and I have no problem with you having that opinion. I bought it as much to support Frameworks as I did to have a new downhill bike because I like supporting certain stories and, while I don’t know him personally, I know some people who do and without exception they have nothing but great things to say about him. This is all consistent with the guy I hear on podcasts, see in YouTube videos and the guy who took the time to send me an email with some questions on how I had setup my bike and to make sure it would be as solid as he intended.
So, to be clear, I am not fast enough to justify this bike. I used to have a Pivot Phoenix and couldn’t justify that either. I will say that the Frameworks bike just seems to eat up everything and it is almost too much for my skill on really difficult trails. Basically you don’t feel anything as it seems to just glide over all but the most extreme chunk making it somewhat difficult for someone of my skill level (intermediate plus, no problem with blacks and can handle most double blacks just fine if a bit slower than really good riders) to hit the lines I want. Ok, I’ll only use it maybe 5-10 times/year anyway.
I look forward to the Enduro bike as that one will be a mini-downhill bike most likely and maybe it’ll help me get the training wheels off the downhill bike.
I’m fortunate enough that buying this was not a financial burden and, honestly, it is by far the least expensive MTB I own.
I guess the only place I slightly disagree is that they should be treated like any other manufacturer. They are not Specialized, Santa Cruz or even Pivot. The customer service level is different because they only solid like 60 of these frames in the original run. I know I was the only buyer in AZ. If people like me can give them support and they reach those levels (not going to happen) then I would agree completely. I do however think that anyone that has any financial impact from buying his frame or is doing with serious racing in mind should take the critical eye you suggest.
I really wasn't meaning to direct anything negative at you. No one really cares how fast you or me can get down a trail. Hell, in the grand scheme of things, very, very, very few people care how fast Aumary or Loic can get down a trail, thus the current state of downhill. My crass thought process on buying a frame is to narrow it down to choices that make sense and then buy whatever gets my juices flowing the most. We ought be excited about the bikes we own.
Neko definitely reminds of Ben Cathro: based on what you see online and hear, the main thing to dislike seems to be how ridiculously likable he is. If reviewers would push him on certain decisions and aspects, I bet he'd give a thoughtful and transparent answer from which we'd learn something.
I like working on my own bikes, but I hate doing unnecessary maintenance. I appreciate stuff that just works, and really like brands with thorough and detailed documentation, and available service parts. I also like having the same components (or very similar) across my bikes so that when I jump from one to the other, they feel familiar (especially contact points/controls). Great warranties are nice for peace of mind, but if you have to use them constantly that's frustrating. For a bit, I was really focused on trying to get stuff made in North America or Europe, but honestly a lot of it was worse quality than stuff made in Taiwan, so now it's just a "nice to have" feature to me. I don't care a ton about splashy colors or anodizing. After years of fretting over some parts being a few bucks less than another, now I whole-heartedly subscribe to the philosophy of "cry once, buy once."
I'd say I have brand loyalty to: Santa Cruz (frames and wheels), DT Swiss (hubs), RockShox (suspension), SRAM (drivetrain), Hayes (brakes), OneUp (bars, tools), Ergon (grips & saddles). Not to say they're the absolute best, or that there isn't better stuff out there, just that I feel I can rely on these.
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