I'll be tuned in to hear what you think. I've seen this carbon "tech" before and wonder if there are real improvements or if it's more of a placebo effect. Reading the reviews, what I see most is "I increased PSI and it was smoother off the top...etc etc etc" which from reading what some have to say in this thread would be the result without this product bc the fork is higher in its travel to start.
Related to the OP, how effective it is with getting full travel doesn't seem to come up, TBD I guess.
I was able to test the fork with the tru tune device in the airspring side. You can see the graph below difference in how much more linear the ramp up is. I don’t think this is a perfect fork or it’s necessarily fixed but interesting to see what this device does.
A interesting thing to know is that true to recommends 10% or air pressure been previously run without their insert. I found that was way too much, so went back to the same pressure.
76psi stock air side I got 24% dynamic sag and hit about 145mm max travel.
73psi with Tru tune I got 28% dynamic sag and hit about 155mm max travel.
Super cool to have the Motion Instruments data after trying out Tru Tune to back up your personal impressions. Seems like it really does what it says. Love it.
Super cool to have the Motion Instruments data after trying out Tru Tune to back up your personal impressions. Seems like it really does what it...
Super cool to have the Motion Instruments data after trying out Tru Tune to back up your personal impressions. Seems like it really does what it says. Love it.
The data doesn’t lie. From this point I need to laps on a trail and dial in the air pressure. Then some comp/reb setting. I still think the compression damping is too stiff but we are at least going in a good direction.
For anyone interested, that was the small version of tru tune that I tried. The larger one might be too much on a 180 fork.
I was able to test the fork with the tru tune device in the airspring side. You can see the graph below difference in how much...
I was able to test the fork with the tru tune device in the airspring side. You can see the graph below difference in how much more linear the ramp up is. I don’t think this is a perfect fork or it’s necessarily fixed but interesting to see what this device does.
A interesting thing to know is that true to recommends 10% or air pressure been previously run without their insert. I found that was way too much, so went back to the same pressure.
76psi stock air side I got 24% dynamic sag and hit about 145mm max travel.
73psi with Tru tune I got 28% dynamic sag and hit about 155mm max travel.
With the short insert in my 36 I ran the same pressure as without it.
I was able to test the fork with the tru tune device in the airspring side. You can see the graph below difference in how much...
I was able to test the fork with the tru tune device in the airspring side. You can see the graph below difference in how much more linear the ramp up is. I don’t think this is a perfect fork or it’s necessarily fixed but interesting to see what this device does.
A interesting thing to know is that true to recommends 10% or air pressure been previously run without their insert. I found that was way too much, so went back to the same pressure.
76psi stock air side I got 24% dynamic sag and hit about 145mm max travel.
73psi with Tru tune I got 28% dynamic sag and hit about 155mm max travel.
I was able to test the fork with the tru tune device in the airspring side. You can see the graph below difference in how much...
I was able to test the fork with the tru tune device in the airspring side. You can see the graph below difference in how much more linear the ramp up is. I don’t think this is a perfect fork or it’s necessarily fixed but interesting to see what this device does.
A interesting thing to know is that true to recommends 10% or air pressure been previously run without their insert. I found that was way too much, so went back to the same pressure.
76psi stock air side I got 24% dynamic sag and hit about 145mm max travel.
73psi with Tru tune I got 28% dynamic sag and hit about 155mm max travel.
One more observation with the short insert in a 150mm 36. The short insert has some ramp up, but to me it felt like a more gradual ramp up, where a standard volume spacer felt like the ramp up was very sudden.
Especially with 180mm and the new RS forks being pretty progressive already, you might be able to get away with the long Tru tune insert. Just thinking out loud.
One more observation with the short insert in a 150mm 36. The short insert has some ramp up, but to me it felt like a more...
One more observation with the short insert in a 150mm 36. The short insert has some ramp up, but to me it felt like a more gradual ramp up, where a standard volume spacer felt like the ramp up was very sudden.
Especially with 180mm and the new RS forks being pretty progressive already, you might be able to get away with the long Tru tune insert. Just thinking out loud.
Yeah the 6 Tru Tune might be the one for 180mm. They were sold out when I ordered.
Id be really interested in trying this technology on a air shock. Unbelievable how lint it makes the air spring.
One more observation with the short insert in a 150mm 36. The short insert has some ramp up, but to me it felt like a more...
One more observation with the short insert in a 150mm 36. The short insert has some ramp up, but to me it felt like a more gradual ramp up, where a standard volume spacer felt like the ramp up was very sudden.
Especially with 180mm and the new RS forks being pretty progressive already, you might be able to get away with the long Tru tune insert. Just thinking out loud.
Yeah the 6 Tru Tune might be the one for 180mm. They were sold out when I ordered.
Id be really interested in trying this technology...
Yeah the 6 Tru Tune might be the one for 180mm. They were sold out when I ordered.
Id be really interested in trying this technology on a air shock. Unbelievable how lint it makes the air spring.
Agreed, I think they were on a podcast and said they were looking at development for shocks. The one issue I could see is oil contamination of the insert. If the carbon gets oil soaked it would loose it's effectiveness.
Super interesting to see the effects of the Tru Tune! It would seem that while making the fork more linear you might have the (arguably) large drawback of mid stroke support suffering.
It would be cool to compare with a Vorsprung Secus, which makes for a vastly enlarged negative spring but also has a valve to stiffen the midstroke rather than soften it. But I guess that might not be the way to go for someone looking for full travel as a top priority.
First thing i would suggest is drop the lowers and clean + re-grease the airspring.
These are notorious for having way too much grease on them from the factory, which chokes up the equalizer port between positive and negative chambers (I've pulled apart 3 new Zebs in the last few years and each airspring has looked as though the whole things has been dunked in slick honey).
I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) air not being able to freely equalize between + and - can mess up all sorts of things like correct pressures for sag and generally making it feel horrible / harsh / overly progressive.
After fixing that I've had no issues with being able set it up with normal sag to bottom out once a run when pushing (0 tokens).
First thing i would suggest is drop the lowers and clean + re-grease the airspring.
These are notorious for having way too much grease on them...
First thing i would suggest is drop the lowers and clean + re-grease the airspring.
These are notorious for having way too much grease on them from the factory, which chokes up the equalizer port between positive and negative chambers (I've pulled apart 3 new Zebs in the last few years and each airspring has looked as though the whole things has been dunked in slick honey).
I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) air not being able to freely equalize between + and - can mess up all sorts of things like correct pressures for sag and generally making it feel horrible / harsh / overly progressive.
After fixing that I've had no issues with being able set it up with normal sag to bottom out once a run when pushing (0 tokens).
It possible there's too much grease, but from my experience what I'm feeling isn't from equalizing. But I'll check it out.
I've run the Secus on a Fox40 and it helped the initial touch on small bumps so much. It was mostly in the first 1/4 or 1/3 travel. I didn't feel much change mid or end stroke. That would still be volume spacers. It would be an interesting test with a secus and TruTune. I could prob run more air and a very linear spring curve. Stand by, let's try this!
Forks haven't come with too much grease in them for about 7-8 years now, and the new problem is people removing all the grease and running a bone dry air spring which is even worse. Originally excess grease caused noticeable problems with the very first Solo Air (35mm) pikes and 34/36 NA/NA2 which had much smaller negative chambers to begin with, so an extra CC or 2 of grease made a significant reduction to the volume. It didn't "block" the port either, it just created enough of a ramp up in the neg chamber that the fork wouldn't properly extend all the way back out and equalize fully. Sometimes it would cause them to suck down, other times it just road very harsh.
These days the negative volume is WAY bigger, and factories seem to be building them with a totally reasonable amount of grease. The worst feeling air springs are the ones that are running dry and you pull out the shaft and its covered in a fine rubber powder. Also remember the the whole inside of the stanchion needs coating in grease to create the proper sliding conditions, so if you clean out the stanchion then only wipe a tiny bit on the piston that will be distributed along the stanchion wall and spread too thin to be any use. As long as you are putting most of the grease inside the tube it won't be an issue.
And yeah, I'm the one that opens these forks (and sometimes shocks) that have been run dry for a a year or 3 and its not good......
Forks haven't come with too much grease in them for about 7-8 years now, and the new problem is people removing all the grease and running...
Forks haven't come with too much grease in them for about 7-8 years now, and the new problem is people removing all the grease and running a bone dry air spring which is even worse. Originally excess grease caused noticeable problems with the very first Solo Air (35mm) pikes and 34/36 NA/NA2 which had much smaller negative chambers to begin with, so an extra CC or 2 of grease made a significant reduction to the volume. It didn't "block" the port either, it just created enough of a ramp up in the neg chamber that the fork wouldn't properly extend all the way back out and equalize fully. Sometimes it would cause them to suck down, other times it just road very harsh.
These days the negative volume is WAY bigger, and factories seem to be building them with a totally reasonable amount of grease. The worst feeling air springs are the ones that are running dry and you pull out the shaft and its covered in a fine rubber powder. Also remember the the whole inside of the stanchion needs coating in grease to create the proper sliding conditions, so if you clean out the stanchion then only wipe a tiny bit on the piston that will be distributed along the stanchion wall and spread too thin to be any use. As long as you are putting most of the grease inside the tube it won't be an issue.
And yeah, I'm the one that opens these forks (and sometimes shocks) that have been run dry for a a year or 3 and its not good......
2021 fox 36 rhythm had so much grease in the negative chamber from the factory that I had to add 10psi to get the same sag after service as I had before.
Forks haven't come with too much grease in them for about 7-8 years now, and the new problem is people removing all the grease and running...
Forks haven't come with too much grease in them for about 7-8 years now, and the new problem is people removing all the grease and running a bone dry air spring which is even worse. Originally excess grease caused noticeable problems with the very first Solo Air (35mm) pikes and 34/36 NA/NA2 which had much smaller negative chambers to begin with, so an extra CC or 2 of grease made a significant reduction to the volume. It didn't "block" the port either, it just created enough of a ramp up in the neg chamber that the fork wouldn't properly extend all the way back out and equalize fully. Sometimes it would cause them to suck down, other times it just road very harsh.
These days the negative volume is WAY bigger, and factories seem to be building them with a totally reasonable amount of grease. The worst feeling air springs are the ones that are running dry and you pull out the shaft and its covered in a fine rubber powder. Also remember the the whole inside of the stanchion needs coating in grease to create the proper sliding conditions, so if you clean out the stanchion then only wipe a tiny bit on the piston that will be distributed along the stanchion wall and spread too thin to be any use. As long as you are putting most of the grease inside the tube it won't be an issue.
And yeah, I'm the one that opens these forks (and sometimes shocks) that have been run dry for a a year or 3 and its not good......
2021 fox 36 rhythm had so much grease in the negative chamber from the factory that I had to add 10psi to get the same sag...
2021 fox 36 rhythm had so much grease in the negative chamber from the factory that I had to add 10psi to get the same sag after service as I had before.
2022 factory 36 was much better.
How do you know that wasn't friction causing the change in sag? Stiction from dry dust wipers can cause a large variance in measured sag. Adding 10psi is more than when when we install a luftkappe, so was there a luftkappe - sized glob of grease in there?
Forks haven't come with too much grease in them for about 7-8 years now, and the new problem is people removing all the grease and running...
Forks haven't come with too much grease in them for about 7-8 years now, and the new problem is people removing all the grease and running a bone dry air spring which is even worse. Originally excess grease caused noticeable problems with the very first Solo Air (35mm) pikes and 34/36 NA/NA2 which had much smaller negative chambers to begin with, so an extra CC or 2 of grease made a significant reduction to the volume. It didn't "block" the port either, it just created enough of a ramp up in the neg chamber that the fork wouldn't properly extend all the way back out and equalize fully. Sometimes it would cause them to suck down, other times it just road very harsh.
These days the negative volume is WAY bigger, and factories seem to be building them with a totally reasonable amount of grease. The worst feeling air springs are the ones that are running dry and you pull out the shaft and its covered in a fine rubber powder. Also remember the the whole inside of the stanchion needs coating in grease to create the proper sliding conditions, so if you clean out the stanchion then only wipe a tiny bit on the piston that will be distributed along the stanchion wall and spread too thin to be any use. As long as you are putting most of the grease inside the tube it won't be an issue.
And yeah, I'm the one that opens these forks (and sometimes shocks) that have been run dry for a a year or 3 and its not good......
2021 fox 36 rhythm had so much grease in the negative chamber from the factory that I had to add 10psi to get the same sag...
2021 fox 36 rhythm had so much grease in the negative chamber from the factory that I had to add 10psi to get the same sag after service as I had before.
How do you know that wasn't friction causing the change in sag? Stiction from dry dust wipers can cause a large variance in measured sag. Adding...
How do you know that wasn't friction causing the change in sag? Stiction from dry dust wipers can cause a large variance in measured sag. Adding 10psi is more than when when we install a luftkappe, so was there a luftkappe - sized glob of grease in there?
I checked my notes.
I went from 70psi to 87 psi after a lower service and air spring lube, no new parts just pulled apart and properly lubed.
There was a finger width (20-25mm) thick blob of grease across the entire piston, both in the positive and negative chamber. I'm sure friction was reduced from the fork being properly oiled and greased after the lower. The dust wipers and foam rings were only partially lubed also, there was too much grease in the air spring but not enough oil in both legs.
Removing the excess grease and properly lubing with both grease and oil (slickoleum and fox oils) made the fork feel much better even with +10 psi. went from 70 psi to 87psi.
On subsequent lower services; every spring and fall, the fork felt fresh but never needed changes to air pressure after service.
When I upgraded to a factory 36, I did a lower service and pulled the air spring before riding it. It was much better, not really any excess grease and better oiled foam rings.
I was able to test the fork with the tru tune device in the airspring side. You can see the graph below difference in how much...
I was able to test the fork with the tru tune device in the airspring side. You can see the graph below difference in how much more linear the ramp up is. I don’t think this is a perfect fork or it’s necessarily fixed but interesting to see what this device does.
A interesting thing to know is that true to recommends 10% or air pressure been previously run without their insert. I found that was way too much, so went back to the same pressure.
76psi stock air side I got 24% dynamic sag and hit about 145mm max travel.
73psi with Tru tune I got 28% dynamic sag and hit about 155mm max travel.
Color me impressed.
What aobut a Runt style triple chamber? Is there enough space on a 180 mm Zeb for one of those to fit?
I was able to test the fork with the tru tune device in the airspring side. You can see the graph below difference in how much...
I was able to test the fork with the tru tune device in the airspring side. You can see the graph below difference in how much more linear the ramp up is. I don’t think this is a perfect fork or it’s necessarily fixed but interesting to see what this device does.
A interesting thing to know is that true to recommends 10% or air pressure been previously run without their insert. I found that was way too much, so went back to the same pressure.
76psi stock air side I got 24% dynamic sag and hit about 145mm max travel.
73psi with Tru tune I got 28% dynamic sag and hit about 155mm max travel.
I was able to test the fork with the tru tune device in the airspring side. You can see the graph below difference in how much...
I was able to test the fork with the tru tune device in the airspring side. You can see the graph below difference in how much more linear the ramp up is. I don’t think this is a perfect fork or it’s necessarily fixed but interesting to see what this device does.
A interesting thing to know is that true to recommends 10% or air pressure been previously run without their insert. I found that was way too much, so went back to the same pressure.
76psi stock air side I got 24% dynamic sag and hit about 145mm max travel.
73psi with Tru tune I got 28% dynamic sag and hit about 155mm max travel.
What aobut a Runt style triple chamber? Is there enough space on a 180 mm Zeb for one of those to fit?
I’ve used the Runt before on a different fork. While it will work on the Zeb, it won’t negate volume like a TruTune it will just give you an air pressure for ramp. The graph I posted was stock with 0 volume spacers. So for me, I’m not looking for ramp up, I’m trying to reduce it for a more linear feel.
I just got my Vorsprung Secus. So I can install that and ride this weekend.
I was able to test the fork with the tru tune device in the airspring side. You can see the graph below difference in how much...
I was able to test the fork with the tru tune device in the airspring side. You can see the graph below difference in how much more linear the ramp up is. I don’t think this is a perfect fork or it’s necessarily fixed but interesting to see what this device does.
A interesting thing to know is that true to recommends 10% or air pressure been previously run without their insert. I found that was way too much, so went back to the same pressure.
76psi stock air side I got 24% dynamic sag and hit about 145mm max travel.
73psi with Tru tune I got 28% dynamic sag and hit about 155mm max travel.
What aobut a Runt style triple chamber? Is there enough space on a 180 mm Zeb for one of those to fit?
IIRC the runt has the same displacement as a single token when the chamber is compressed. Based on that it should end up with a more progressive end stroke than no tokens, even if the begining and midstroke are more linear.
I was able to test the fork with the tru tune device in the airspring side. You can see the graph below difference in how much...
I was able to test the fork with the tru tune device in the airspring side. You can see the graph below difference in how much more linear the ramp up is. I don’t think this is a perfect fork or it’s necessarily fixed but interesting to see what this device does.
A interesting thing to know is that true to recommends 10% or air pressure been previously run without their insert. I found that was way too much, so went back to the same pressure.
76psi stock air side I got 24% dynamic sag and hit about 145mm max travel.
73psi with Tru tune I got 28% dynamic sag and hit about 155mm max travel.
I’ve used the Runt before on a different fork. While it will work on the Zeb, it won’t negate volume like a TruTune it will just...
I’ve used the Runt before on a different fork. While it will work on the Zeb, it won’t negate volume like a TruTune it will just give you an air pressure for ramp. The graph I posted was stock with 0 volume spacers. So for me, I’m not looking for ramp up, I’m trying to reduce it for a more linear feel.
I just got my Vorsprung Secus. So I can install that and ride this weekend.
Really curious to hear your thoughts on the Secus, specifically if it allows you to reduce ramp at the end stroke. I know the Secus bleeds off some of the lower leg pressure that causes a lot of the excessive ramp in long travel single crown forks like the Zeb.
IIRC the runt has the same displacement as a single token when the chamber is compressed. Based on that it should end up with a more...
IIRC the runt has the same displacement as a single token when the chamber is compressed. Based on that it should end up with a more progressive end stroke than no tokens, even if the begining and midstroke are more linear.
It would be true if you were running the same pressure in the main chamber with runt/awk as you would with stock air spring with 1token. And you don't do that, not even close.
IIRC the runt has the same displacement as a single token when the chamber is compressed. Based on that it should end up with a more...
IIRC the runt has the same displacement as a single token when the chamber is compressed. Based on that it should end up with a more progressive end stroke than no tokens, even if the begining and midstroke are more linear.
It would be true if you were running the same pressure in the main chamber with runt/awk as you would with stock air spring with 1token...
It would be true if you were running the same pressure in the main chamber with runt/awk as you would with stock air spring with 1token. And you don't do that, not even close.
Good point.
It's still more progressive, but the lower pressure should offset the progression. Basically the whole spring rate is altered.
This exactly. Even if you have an end stroke flick up in the characteristic, it's quite possible the required force will be lower if you aim for the same force required for the middle of the travel which you achieve with a lower overall pressure.
And that's what a third chamber should give you. It effectively makes for a variable volume positive chamber.
In the comments for the instagram post you shared, I was reminded of this interesting product to address exactly the topic of this thread: excessive end stroke ramp up in long travel Zebs:
Here's what EverFlow have to say about there very unusual and pretty kooky looking but maybe? effective product: "Available for Fox and RockShox forks with bleed buttons, the AirLink put in communication both lower leg volumes, thus reducing the ramp up effect towards the end stroke caused by the air compressed on the spring side (you can see an animation few posts ago). The longer the travel, the more effective the improvement of reducing the progression, in case you feel you fork harsh and too stiff to use full travel."
I nominate someone in this thread to buy one and try it.
Just remembered this because of the tech rumors thread... Anyone connecting the bleeders should be careful, turning the bike upside down will likely make the oil flow from one leg to the other. I'd say it could be possible to make one of the legs starved of oil.
I just got the TruTune. Gonna try it next week.
I'll be tuned in to hear what you think. I've seen this carbon "tech" before and wonder if there are real improvements or if it's more of a placebo effect. Reading the reviews, what I see most is "I increased PSI and it was smoother off the top...etc etc etc" which from reading what some have to say in this thread would be the result without this product bc the fork is higher in its travel to start.
Related to the OP, how effective it is with getting full travel doesn't seem to come up, TBD I guess.
I was able to test the fork with the tru tune device in the airspring side. You can see the graph below difference in how much more linear the ramp up is. I don’t think this is a perfect fork or it’s necessarily fixed but interesting to see what this device does.
A interesting thing to know is that true to recommends 10% or air pressure been previously run without their insert. I found that was way too much, so went back to the same pressure.
76psi stock air side I got 24% dynamic sag and hit about 145mm max travel.
73psi with Tru tune I got 28% dynamic sag and hit about 155mm max travel.
Super cool to have the Motion Instruments data after trying out Tru Tune to back up your personal impressions. Seems like it really does what it says. Love it.
The data doesn’t lie. From this point I need to laps on a trail and dial in the air pressure. Then some comp/reb setting. I still think the compression damping is too stiff but we are at least going in a good direction.
For anyone interested, that was the small version of tru tune that I tried. The larger one might be too much on a 180 fork.
With the short insert in my 36 I ran the same pressure as without it.
Good to know, thanks!
One more observation with the short insert in a 150mm 36. The short insert has some ramp up, but to me it felt like a more gradual ramp up, where a standard volume spacer felt like the ramp up was very sudden.
Especially with 180mm and the new RS forks being pretty progressive already, you might be able to get away with the long Tru tune insert. Just thinking out loud.
Yeah the 6 Tru Tune might be the one for 180mm. They were sold out when I ordered.
Id be really interested in trying this technology on a air shock. Unbelievable how lint it makes the air spring.
Agreed, I think they were on a podcast and said they were looking at development for shocks. The one issue I could see is oil contamination of the insert. If the carbon gets oil soaked it would loose it's effectiveness.
Super interesting to see the effects of the Tru Tune! It would seem that while making the fork more linear you might have the (arguably) large drawback of mid stroke support suffering.
It would be cool to compare with a Vorsprung Secus, which makes for a vastly enlarged negative spring but also has a valve to stiffen the midstroke rather than soften it. But I guess that might not be the way to go for someone looking for full travel as a top priority.
First thing i would suggest is drop the lowers and clean + re-grease the airspring.
These are notorious for having way too much grease on them from the factory, which chokes up the equalizer port between positive and negative chambers (I've pulled apart 3 new Zebs in the last few years and each airspring has looked as though the whole things has been dunked in slick honey).
I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) air not being able to freely equalize between + and - can mess up all sorts of things like correct pressures for sag and generally making it feel horrible / harsh / overly progressive.
After fixing that I've had no issues with being able set it up with normal sag to bottom out once a run when pushing (0 tokens).
It possible there's too much grease, but from my experience what I'm feeling isn't from equalizing. But I'll check it out.
I've run the Secus on a Fox40 and it helped the initial touch on small bumps so much. It was mostly in the first 1/4 or 1/3 travel. I didn't feel much change mid or end stroke. That would still be volume spacers. It would be an interesting test with a secus and TruTune. I could prob run more air and a very linear spring curve. Stand by, let's try this!
Forks haven't come with too much grease in them for about 7-8 years now, and the new problem is people removing all the grease and running a bone dry air spring which is even worse. Originally excess grease caused noticeable problems with the very first Solo Air (35mm) pikes and 34/36 NA/NA2 which had much smaller negative chambers to begin with, so an extra CC or 2 of grease made a significant reduction to the volume. It didn't "block" the port either, it just created enough of a ramp up in the neg chamber that the fork wouldn't properly extend all the way back out and equalize fully. Sometimes it would cause them to suck down, other times it just road very harsh.
These days the negative volume is WAY bigger, and factories seem to be building them with a totally reasonable amount of grease. The worst feeling air springs are the ones that are running dry and you pull out the shaft and its covered in a fine rubber powder. Also remember the the whole inside of the stanchion needs coating in grease to create the proper sliding conditions, so if you clean out the stanchion then only wipe a tiny bit on the piston that will be distributed along the stanchion wall and spread too thin to be any use. As long as you are putting most of the grease inside the tube it won't be an issue.
And yeah, I'm the one that opens these forks (and sometimes shocks) that have been run dry for a a year or 3 and its not good......
2021 fox 36 rhythm had so much grease in the negative chamber from the factory that I had to add 10psi to get the same sag after service as I had before.
2022 factory 36 was much better.
How do you know that wasn't friction causing the change in sag? Stiction from dry dust wipers can cause a large variance in measured sag. Adding 10psi is more than when when we install a luftkappe, so was there a luftkappe - sized glob of grease in there?
I checked my notes.
I went from 70psi to 87 psi after a lower service and air spring lube, no new parts just pulled apart and properly lubed.
There was a finger width (20-25mm) thick blob of grease across the entire piston, both in the positive and negative chamber. I'm sure friction was reduced from the fork being properly oiled and greased after the lower. The dust wipers and foam rings were only partially lubed also, there was too much grease in the air spring but not enough oil in both legs.
Removing the excess grease and properly lubing with both grease and oil (slickoleum and fox oils) made the fork feel much better even with +10 psi. went from 70 psi to 87psi.
On subsequent lower services; every spring and fall, the fork felt fresh but never needed changes to air pressure after service.
When I upgraded to a factory 36, I did a lower service and pulled the air spring before riding it. It was much better, not really any excess grease and better oiled foam rings.
Color me impressed.
What aobut a Runt style triple chamber? Is there enough space on a 180 mm Zeb for one of those to fit?
Of course https://www.instagram.com/p/CvEvcAVsM3x/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&ig…
I’ve used the Runt before on a different fork. While it will work on the Zeb, it won’t negate volume like a TruTune it will just give you an air pressure for ramp. The graph I posted was stock with 0 volume spacers. So for me, I’m not looking for ramp up, I’m trying to reduce it for a more linear feel.
I just got my Vorsprung Secus. So I can install that and ride this weekend.
IIRC the runt has the same displacement as a single token when the chamber is compressed. Based on that it should end up with a more progressive end stroke than no tokens, even if the begining and midstroke are more linear.
Really curious to hear your thoughts on the Secus, specifically if it allows you to reduce ramp at the end stroke. I know the Secus bleeds off some of the lower leg pressure that causes a lot of the excessive ramp in long travel single crown forks like the Zeb.
It would be true if you were running the same pressure in the main chamber with runt/awk as you would with stock air spring with 1token. And you don't do that, not even close.
Good point.
It's still more progressive, but the lower pressure should offset the progression. Basically the whole spring rate is altered.
This exactly. Even if you have an end stroke flick up in the characteristic, it's quite possible the required force will be lower if you aim for the same force required for the middle of the travel which you achieve with a lower overall pressure.
And that's what a third chamber should give you. It effectively makes for a variable volume positive chamber.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CvOqdWNoafW/?img_index=1
Interested to see how it will turn out.
In the comments for the instagram post you shared, I was reminded of this interesting product to address exactly the topic of this thread: excessive end stroke ramp up in long travel Zebs:
Here's what EverFlow have to say about there very unusual and pretty kooky looking but maybe? effective product: "Available for Fox and RockShox forks with bleed buttons, the AirLink put in communication both lower leg volumes, thus reducing the ramp up effect towards the end stroke caused by the air compressed on the spring side (you can see an animation few posts ago). The longer the travel, the more effective the improvement of reducing the progression, in case you feel you fork harsh and too stiff to use full travel."
I nominate someone in this thread to buy one and try it.
If I remember I might rummage through the surplus stock at work, it's only a few pneumatic fittings anyway...
First I need a Zeb at 180 mm though!
pretty sure I've seen those parts in my fish tank
brb fish going without air, dad needs less ramp up.
Just remembered this because of the tech rumors thread... Anyone connecting the bleeders should be careful, turning the bike upside down will likely make the oil flow from one leg to the other. I'd say it could be possible to make one of the legs starved of oil.
I'd stick to the setup just for testing purposes.
Post a reply to: Attn Fellow Suspension Nerds - 180mm Zeb won't get full travel?