Arm pump/hand pain solutions thread

Arm pump and hand pain (claw hand I've heard it called) are different correct? I assume so, but I'm in Illinois so neither are common. I've only had hand pain once at a bike park in Idaho.

Clip in grips man

Oneup carbon bars. Setting brake level angle in line with my arms in the ol' "attack" position. If your brakes have them, set pad engagement so levers get as close to grips/fingers as possible at full stop. Cutting 10mm off bar width until I found the right width for me (this was more for sholders but it all aligns).

I have definitely not solved arm pump, but I have found bigger, more powerful brakes has been the biggest help equipment wise. I'm running Hayes Dominions with 220mm rotors and this year and I get a lot less arm fatigue as I don't have to pull very hard on the brake to get power (this brake setup is almost overkill... almost). Compared to stock Code RSCs with 200mm rotors, the difference is huge. The heat management, power, and ease of lever pull are all great on this setup. Compliant bars seem to help as well. 

In terms of physical solutions, improving your hip strength and grip strength can help a lot. If you have a stronger deadlift/hip hinge position, you can ride by putting a lot of weight into your feet and not as much weight on your hands, which is a big help. The cue of riding with your hands light definitely helps, but if you're not strong enough to hold that position (as I wasn't a few years ago) its only going to help you so much. Improving grip strength is pretty self explanatory. If your grip is stronger/higher capacity, you don't have to work as hard to hold on for the same force through the bike. 

In my experience, throw the kitchen sink at arm pump. Brakes, bars, suspension, cockpit setup, riding smooth, getting stronger and more mobile. No one thing will fix it, but if you do enough things right it will mitigate the issue fairly well. 

 @Jon_Angieri I love your dedication :D

I’ve struggled a lot with arm pump as well over the years, one because I’ve broken hands/thumbs/wrists but I think also as a tall rider my bars have often been too low. Also I do tend to death grip too. I feel like it’s the main thing that limits how I ride rough trails, and while getting stronger has helped, it’s only been a small improvement. Also I kinda felt like focused forearm or grip strength exercises may made things worse? Maybe you can increase your grip strength but also increase your arms’ tendency to be sensitive. But hinging, shoulder strength, mobility, all help.

Bike setup has been huge, agree with @EBlackwell that you may need overlapping solutions. 
 

Mine have been

- Lever angle - raising them more level has helped a ton. I can’t go super level because of thumbs and bunnyhopping madness on the trails but it’s crazy how much a small difference makes

- Higher bars - although it always feels like a tradeoff with front wheel precision and again, if you love popping off of things you can only go so far up comfortably. Maybe precision is overrated when we have 170mm forks. 

- OneUp bars made a very noticeable difference! I’d love to try the alum ones

- RevGrips work, but mine also creak when they get moon dust in them. Push on grips I think are 90% as good, and there’s a million styles. Not too fat, not too thin. Push on grips obviously have more cushion for a given diameter too

- More powerful brakes - the light lever pull / big power of Hopes over SRAM and Shimano on extended steep rough trails has really helped me so far 

I want to test if a stiffer fork, or a softer but more progressive fork is helpful. I’m somewhat on the soft side to try and save the hands but maybe that makes the wall of progression spike in steep chunk worse. I don’t even want to talk about the different forks I’ve tried 

Anyone have other tips on not death gripping, lol? Or how to brake less? Prolly just gap more rocks!

I’ve battled hand numbness and pain, particularly in my right thumb, for years. I tried various bar bends, widths, and materials with limited results. I tried different grips, and fit adjustments with little help. The biggest things that did help were core strength and carpal tunnel stretches. The pain and numbness continued and got worse, even while driving. Today I’m exactly 2 weeks post carpal tunnel release surgery. I haven’t been on the bike yet since I had stitches removed yesterday and have been released for activity. Just driving I’m not feeling any issues other than the incision is sore. Mid-July I’ll be having the left hand done. Hopefully my right hand will be up for riding when my wife and I head to Chattanooga in a couple weeks and both ready for the fall ride season.

So many good suggestions above! Things that have helped me:

tl;dr - there's no magic fix, try lots of things, starting w/ the easy/cheap ones first.

- OneUp bars (both the alu and carbon worked for me)
- Hayes Dominion A4s w/ the SFL lever option
- Fatter grips (this was surprising to me for some reason, I guess because I have small hands it didn't occur to me to try)
- Chin-ups/pull-ups
- Messing around w/ bar roll and lever angle (REALLY wish there were standards for bar/stem markings for this)
- Trying to be conscious about my grip (kind of annoying because I ride to get out of my head, not spend more in it...)
- Saddle-to-bar height; higher bars helped

On the fork set up note - friction is king. Or the lack of it, more specifically. Fresh oil, good bushing clearance and good seal design (or a coil spring) make the biggest difference. Then an overly broad rule of thumb is to start with minimal tokens and find the highest pressure that doesn't compromise grip or comfort, then add tokens if needed after that. Because air springs are progressive, the instantaneous rate at the point of sag doesn't exactly get lower proportionally to how much air you remove. Sitting higher in the travel gives you more available travel to soak up bumps and will hold the fork up, not getting bogged down in the end of the stroke

I suffered with Sore hands/fingers for ages

The two biggest helpers were:
Oneup bars
Not death gripping, and this is where good grips like the new odi reflex come in - these are amazing IMO. (not death gripping also elimated arm pump for me)

Next was brakes...
You need to look at braking efficiency and not 'bring to a stop' - Brakes like shimano Have poor Braking efficiency and because of this many people Drag their brakes which will kill your hands. 

I started running hope tech 4 v4 brakes and they were basically the end all issues deal, They were great brakes

However, Mavens had come out and we had a 4 day trip to central South island NZ planned - I decided to install Mavens. 
Took me a lap to dial in the feel of the contact and reach.
I did that entire trip and shuttled laps for 4 days with having to ever stop riding because my hands were sore - These brakes are now on all my Bikes, they are amazing.

Learning to Use powerful brakes Is an important Part of bike performance, Stay off them and Grab when you need to SLOW DOWN, Not stop.

As mentioned above, Ensuring your fork Travels smoothly through its stroke is a massive part aswell, No amount of tuning will help a binding fork, Many forks feel like ass and many consumers have no idea what a nice fork actually feels like.

Purely my experience and how I solved it.
 

What really worked for me in getting rid of hand pain/arm pump/fatigue: bar roll and brake lever angle. Bar roll actually makes a bigger difference for me, espeically in terms of hand pain/fatigue. I roll my bar forward probably more than average. Also, the flatter the brake levers ar set, the less arm pump I get, but it's then a threshold between getting rid of arm pump vs correct body positionig for me. Also, surprisingly, I prefer thinner grips to reduce arm pump, even though i have big hands. You lose a bit of damping from the lower thickness but if the grip diameter is large i have less strenght. It's the same even if I do pull-ups on a narrow vs thick bar. 

Hang from overhead bar as long as possible. Do it as a training regime. 
You all can thank me later. 

"I want to test if a stiffer fork, or a softer but more progressive fork is helpful. I’m somewhat on the soft side to try and save the hands but maybe that makes the wall of progression spike in steep chunk worse. I don’t even want to talk about the different forks I’ve tried"

I have nerve damage in both wrists that makes it a battle to prevent my hands going numb, I find that I have less hand problems with a stiffer fork that preserves geo and better resists diving than I have with a softer fork. I also strongly prefer a more linear fork, with more progressive setups I feel the fork smack into the wall of progression and that feels worse than more pressure with less volume spacers.

Tons of good solutions up above. Something I've been working on is actively 'letting go' of the bars. You see the moto guys do this in the air where they'll actively let their hands loose up on the bars. On certain sections of trail, where you can get away from it, let your hands totally relax. I do this as much as possible even on runs when I don't get arm pump. Building up that muscle memory for longer runs. Takes a good attack stance to pull this off (not saying mine is great) but a good hinge, core strength, and stability, allow me to relax my hands when I'm not active on the bike. You'll be surprised at how many places you can start working on this.

Bar choice- the taller, the more compliant the bar is. I’ve found great results with One Up Aluminum 35mm rise.

I use ODI slip on long neck grips. I’ve found the lock ones are more rigid

Tire pressure- on Continental I’m 24/26

 Suspension setup - I’ve done lots of suspension testing that can transform your bike. If there is a local tuner to help you, or YouTube has tons of great videos from Fox about suspension set up.

At 54 years old with pretty significant arthritis in my hands and elbows, I found two things that helped me.

PNW Range Bar with 30mm rise and 10° back sweep. I tried a couple different bars with the standard 8° back sweep, and I feel like the Range bar really improves my riding comfort.

PNW Loam XL Grips with 34mm diameter. I don't have extra-large hands, but I find that a larger diameter grip gives me more control without having to squeeze hard. For reference, I wear size large gloves.

I've had lots of issues too. I have wide shoulder and very large hands. Switching to bigger grips helped a lot: I liked Sensus Meaty Paws then switched to SQ Lab 711 and settled on OneUp Thick which aren't the thickest of the ones I've tried but my wrists are the happiest. I tried some 12' backsweep bars that helped a lot but when I changed bikes my positioning was different and I switched to 11' Salsa Rustler carbon bars. Bonus for compliance: the Rustlers are 31.8. Carbon bar on a 31.8 clamp super compliant compared to alloy or anything with a 35mm clamp.

Get to the gym. Do your deadlifts and pullups and rows. Make your grip much much stronger and get it used to maxing out then resting and properly recovering. Get a massage once in a while. 

I didn't take great care and eventually developed pretty incredible elbow tendonitis and the therapy that finally fixed it was PRP injections which were pricey and uncomfortable but 100% solved the problem. And I already do all the gym work. 

TL;DR get strong off the bike to be strong on the bike. Notice issues when they're small and do all the training and physical therapy required. Riding can be hard on the body so fix issues while they're minor/manageable and you can ride forever.

Why are OneUp bars the big fix for a lot of you? How do they differ from other company's bars made of the same materials?

I struggled with arm pump for years racing motocross but have never suffered actual arm pump on a mountain bike. Arm pump where you cannot pull the clutch lever enough to shift gears. Coming down the hill at Glen Helen moto 2 at 4pm is a come to Jesus moment when you have real arm pump.

As I got older I paid more attention to my body position, technique, and strength training rather than just pinning it everywhere trying to beat the kid that had the nicer motorhome so my dad wouldn't hit me with the pit broom lol. 

Bar roll, proper body position/form/technique, and the position of controls on the bar make a big difference. Remembering to loosen your grip/re-grip when you can is huge.

In moto I would pick a few spots on the track, besides jumps, where I could sit down and loosen my grip on the bars or adjust my hand position. Looking far enough ahead plays into this, if you're staring at your front tire, you wont be able to pick out a spot where you can adjust or loosen up. 

Grips, bar material/size, stem, wheels, tires, and suspension all play a role and its all personal preference. IMO 35mm bars are too stiff, carbon or alloy, proper tire/wheel and suspension setup is more important, and not everyone needs a 38/Zeb.

There is no fancy new component, material, or magic brake levers that'll cure arm pump without proper form and technique.

I have major nerve problems in both of my arms. I had Ulnar transposition surgery on both arms to release the nerve in my elbow where conduction studies showed damage, the surgeon said the nerve was badly compressed. It was to the point I was losing dexterity and control over my left hand and probably soon would on the right. 

I've spent probably 7 years and a lot of money trying just about everything on the market to help and the last year scrambling to find a solution to the latent issues I have, because not doing so would (and still may be) the end of me riding bikes. 

I've found a few things:

1. Brakes lever position - Let your brake lever all the way out and put your hand on the bar, feel where the pressure is in your hand as it engages the bar. Pull the lever, feel where the pressure is on your hand against the bar. Repeat this process with the lever closer to the bar, you'll find the pressure point changes based on lever position relative to the bar. I've found that brakes allowing me to run the lever closer to the bar help me a lot, it seems to balance the pressure against the bar and grips more, the more I have to reach for the lever (and I have fairly large hands), the more pressure points narrow in on the inside of my hands. 

2. Brake power - Get powerful brakes. If you have to death grip the brakes to put power down, then you are going to again put more pressure through your palms onto the bar and it's going to put more pressure on those nerves, as well as strain muscles. Maven, Hope T4 V4, Intend, Radic - all helped me a lot. Brakes that engage with the power very late (and I discuss this more in depth in the brake thread) like Cura 4, Code RSC, MT7, etc all made my issues worse because of the way the lever pull combined with late power influenced my hand pressure on the bars. There's been a nice change in brakes the past few years and you may find that something else with better ergonomics in the lever and more power is helpful. Don't be shamed into thinking you have "too much" brake, if you need it, you need it.

3. Grips are personal and may help or may not. For me, ODI Dreadlocks helped a lot, the new Vanquish grips look promising as well. Revgrips didn't do much for me and some super thick grips like Supracushes made it worse because of how tight I had to hold onto the grip vs the amount of movement they had. Ergonomic grips made me have to grip harder and Ergon grips aggravated my problems due to the hardness of the compound and small diameter. Too soft = to vague, grip harder, too hard = too much impact on your hands. There's a fine line with this. They also need to be damped, too soft of a grip and your hand just sits into the grip slamming against the liner or bar. 

4. Suspension maintenance helps a lot. Keeping on top of lubrication in your fork AND shock (don't miss your shock because it's in the rear, a shock hanging up, binding, or with a lot of friction still transmits force to you and pushes your weight forward). Also be aware of things like excessively tight bushings, too much grease in the negative airspring, not enough oil, binding due to flex, etc

5. Suspension balance - Being able to reliably let the bike pivot under you and not put force on your hands helps a lot until you get into heavy braking zones. I find a lot of people have their suspension heavily biased one way or another, but if it is balanced in both the compression and rebound strokes, it significantly reduces the amount of effort you will put into staying centered on the bike. If you are fighting to stay centered off the back, for instance, you are going to put more pressure on your hands and arms pulling yourself up as the bike rotates. This isn't necessarily a 1:1 thing though, it's about maintaining the geometry of the bike across compressions so the bike can rotate under you, not necessarily having the exact same velocity front and rear, it's heavy feel based. I try to focus on where my body weight is moving when I ride over stuff and adjust based on that to avoid being flung either direction. If I feel myself having to pull or push my weight back up constantly then I know something needs to change, you shouldn't have to fight the bike to stay into position.

6. Damping - I found dampers that allowed me to run firmer HSC tunes without spiking helped a lot especially with air forks. This may seem counter intuitive, but the forks where I had compression damping increased reduced my issues more than not. Consider where a lot of that spiked feeling in your fork especially comes from: it's a result of dramatic changes in force required throughout the stroke of the fork, if you run a super light damper tune and a really progressive airspring then the fork is going to blast at high velocity through the stroke until it hits the progression wall, then it's going to feel like you just smashed your hands into something. If you take the same fork and increase compression damping, then it's a more gradual movement. I realize this is counter to everything you read, but also consider that for me it only really worked with some forks (EXT v2.1, RXF36 m.2, Helm MkII, GRIPX2 38), others are harsh no matter where it is. I found with these forks I could run it nearly closed off without getting harsh even on small bumps and it helped the fork ride higher, but also reduced that sortof end stroke spiking you get when you hit something and the fork blows through its travel too quickly.

7. I found CushCore helped a lot, but YMMV. 

8. I run BERD wheels and they do seem to help a fair bit. I've run both the HAWK30 and HAWK30X, both seem to damp vibrations a fair bit and sortof take the edge off harder square edge impacts that really send me into the pain locker. They aren't a solve, but it does dull the impact somewhat and the light weight is really nice.

9. I have to run big bikes, I'm on a Geometron G1 now. I love riding little bikes, my SST was my favorite bike ever, but I simply can't ride it anymore. If your issues are bad enough like mine, you might just have to accept that a long, stretched out bike that gives you room to move around and has enough suspension travel to absorb larger square edges or rough chunk will help a lot. It took me a lot of time to accept riding a 175 bike around, but it helps dull the pain enough for me to ride through stuff and reduces the number of stops I have to make by a fair amount, so it is what it is. IMO the longer reach lets me stretch out a fair bit, I feel like it made me realize my previous bikes were too small and putting me into a less than optimal position.

10. Bar selection is very personal but can make a huge difference - If you have issues from other injuries then the Flexx bars will help a lot, they also allow you to somewhat separate your pain management from suspension setup, which is really nice. My issues were ergonomic so they didn't help much, but there were times they did and I highly suggest them. I ultimately found either Ti bars from Roost or the PNW Range bars are the best option for me personally, the now discontinued WAO bars were very good as well. I had extreme problems with the SQLab 12 degree bars, some report they helped them a lot, but I had to walk out because it aggravated my arms so badly. I didn't find the OneUp bars to be that mind blowing, but I also just run 31.8 across the board and have found the options above work just as well or better. 

I got downvoted for this in the other thread, but at a certain point you may just need to see a physical therapist and/or doctor. My issues were a result of tissue constricting the nerve in my elbow. Had I let it continue on its course, I probably would've lost control of my hand and was very close to that point when I had surgery. If you have persistent tingling, numbness, and loss of dexterity or pain then it's worth considering. What finally drove me over the edge was when I was having trouble sleeping at night due to shooting pain down my hands, it took me 4 months to get surgery and I had to quit riding entirely until I had it because I simply couldn't hold on the bars any longer. My symptoms first emerged many years ago and everyone told me it was death gripping or something else, so I just wrote it off as my own problem due to some other issue and chased various solutions, turns out it was a medical problem that should've been addressed sooner. Be aware of how you feel and recognize that hand discomfort is somewhat normal at times, but severe lasting pain is not.

Want to solve your mtb arm pump? Go ride motocross!

They are oval around the "flex point", between where they have to be circular so that brakes/grips/shifters can mount, and the center where it has to be circular to bolt to your stem. 

The oval shape allows them to be flexy up and down, but not flexy in steering like a wet noodle. I demo'ed a bike at a bike park that had XC carbon bars on them, and no joke they flexed up and down more than a cm. That felt great on braking bumps, but the steering inputs also flexed and really messed with handling. Theoretically, OneUps oval shape gives the benefit without the downsides. 

Battled with hand/thumb pain for years. Part of the problem was working, lots of vibration from hand tools and always clenching and squeezing during the day and then riding 5 to 6 days/nights a week. Rest and recovery to allow inflammation to settle down was huge. Have an office job now so that vibration from trips has settled down quite a bit. 
For my thumb pain a switch to electric shifting feels like it has helped. Not having the cable throw motion over and over during a ride helps. Not the hugest fan of my transmission but the push of a button is great. 
Chromag Cutlass 35 mm bar is a nice one to consider.  
Placing levers where is comfortable. There are lots of photos of pro setups and measuring lever distance and angle and making left and right equal. Most of us do not have the same strength, flexibility in left and right hands. I know my levers are are slightly different angles to accommodate how bad my hands and wrists are. Ensuring serious specific to you and not the trends is key. 

Slowing down rebound helps a lot with arm pump.

So do Wolf Tooth Fat Paws grips. The key here is the amount of cush. Softer than rubber and no plastic core in the grip means more absorption. 

I also have issues from a hand injury, and the Fat Paws make it a non-issue.

If your rebound is too slow then it can make matters worse, because your fork or shock will pack up and ride in the middle of the stroke bumping up against the progression point, causing harshness. If your rebound is too fast then yea, it's going to bounce you around all over the place, but too slow is just as bad. It being too slow was worse for me than too fast, too fast was a control issue but didn't cause pain as much as arm fatigue. This also assumes your spring is setup properly. 

Some suspension products won't fully separate rebound and compression damping either, so adding LSR will increase compression as well and this is only visible on dyno charts. The extent to which this is the case depends on the product.

It should be set correctly, but slowing it down can make it just as bad as if it is too fast depending on how far you take it.

Another thing that really helps I haven't seen mentioned yet is brakes. I slide my levers a long ways inboard on the bar so that my index finger has maximum mechanical advantage over the lever. Plus I rotate the levers so they are closer to horizontal - this works for me because I live in a very steep place so when descending my arms and wrists make a nice straight line through the levers. If I lived somewhere flatter I'd roll the levers down a bit more.

I also switched to Hayes with 220 rotors. Maximum power with the absolute minimum lever resistance (way less than Mavens or XT or Code RSC). This just means less squeezing in general. 

Armpump?

I would prescribe Hayes Dominions and a good flexi bar with modern backsweep like 8'.
 

I work for Sensus, so I am stoked to see people are liking the Meaty Paws. Thanks for the support! 

I have dealt with tennis elbow for years, as well as arthritis in my hands. Here is what helped me a ton. 

I go back and forth with the Meaty Paws and EMJ grips. I do think there is a better feel from the EMJ, a slip on grip, and mid diameter. We have a dry climate, so slipon grips are no worries. 

The Meaty Paws I feel help many people not have to grip has hard, just simply from the larger diameter. Similar to XL grips in golf, which help a ton of people too. 

I only use bars with with 7* backsweep and 5* upsweep. (ie, Renthal or Tag Metals). Too much backsweep messes up my wrist. I naturally have a more aggressive riding position and more backsweep pulls my elbows in too far. I also use either 40mm or 50mm rise bars. 

I also run my brake levers angled down pretty far. This is from a bmx/freeride background, but I feel it puts my wrist in a more neutral position with less bend. 

I bought ethirteen's carbon race bars, they have a 9deg backsweep compared to the 7deg of the Renthals I was running. That helped with thumb/hand numbness while just pedaling. Didn't do much for the more active bits of riding. 

I also bought a set of grip strengtheners off Amazon. They're the adjustable kinds and have little counters on them which is nice. As long as I stay on top of using them I notice a significant decrease in arm pump and claw hand on rough descents where I'm death gripping.

It really goes to show how fit varies from person to person. 
I used to angle my brake levers so that they were roughly in a straight line with my arms when seated. But as I rode gnarlier and gnarlier things I levelled them off more since I spend so much of my riding off the back of the bike. Totally conditions dependent.

I found that the standard 8' of bar backsweep just wasn't enough. 12' was a little too much and I settled on the Salsa Rustler carbon which is 11', 800mm wide and 31.8 so it's got lots of compliance when paired with a 31.8 stem. 

So many good suggestions in this thread. Sounds like OP needs to borrow some kit and go do some testing. Just swap one thing at a time so you can be sure which one had a positive effect and let us know!

This. MTB-only guys don't know the true meaning of "arm pump." 

I will say I've noticed a lot of low-slung brake levers on bicycles, though. Folks, you are doing yourself no favors with the brakes pointing toward the dirt. Imagine you're going to show off your forearms and want to make yourself look as much like Popeye as you can. What do you do? Clench your fists and bring them inward as close to your elbow as you can, right? Notice how that's almost the same hand position you are making when your brakes are pointed down? 
Now take a seat on your bike. Point your hands in a straight line and rest your palms on your grips. Your fingers should be resting on the brake levers. Maybe even raise them up a few degrees more than that. This is the trick that solved MX arm pump for me, and it will help for MTB.