Anybody buying these enDHuro sub-200 dual crown builds? Are they valid or cheap fan service?

Pretty sure these builds exist to outfit bike parks with their rental fleet for the year.

I've "park-specced" a few enduro bikes (Pivot Firebirds, Fezzari La Sals) with dual-crown forks and dedicated wheelsets, and it definitely "ups" their capability and enjoyment for lift-assisted riding. But I personally wouldn't make it my everyday ride. In fact, I usually go the other way any try to make my "enduro" bikes more "trail-bikey." 

I have a Shore Park as my current dh bike and my son recently replaced his dh with a Range that he hasn't ridden in the bike park yet. I'm satisfied with it for dh but of course I'm always curious about all the other dh bikes out there. I do think the high pivot makes me less concerned about the 190 travel. I have a drive train, 180 Zeb, lighter tires and external dropper that I will try on it but not expecting it to be long term as I'm more interested in riding it as a dh bike and I have other bikes. My son is loving the Range for his pedal up riding even though it's too much bike. He also wants to mod it for dh next summer. 

You know, before "enduro" we used have these things called "freeride" bikes, so it's not a new concept. 

as someone with a Stumpy Evo and the desire for a bigger 2nd bike for both lift-assisted and winch/plummet riding, I like that these DH builds exist. not because I'll buy one, but because it indirectly gives me the option to get e.g. a Status 170 frame and swap between a 180mm single-crown fork and a 190mm dual-crown. I don't ride enough park to justify owning a big bike I can't also pedal (slowly) up the hill, so this seems like a good middle ground to still experience some of that dual-crown magic you guys all rave about.

Personally I’m about to convert my spire into one of these bikes.  At least for the winter.  Not trying to lose that dc fun factor but trying to avoid push up laps.

My Evil Insurgent is set up with a dual crown.  Was my primary ride for a long time.  I’m a bigger dude (240 lbs geared up) and there were two main benefits.  First the direct mount stem is just more confidence inspiring.  Second you get more travel with out slackening your bike way out.   The fork I have is an MRP Bartlett.  Other than a slight weight penalty and having to set up properly for really tight switch back (which you should anyway) there are no draw backs.  My bike still has a wide range cassette and dropper, I know some of these bikes don’t have that and are truly “mini DH bikes” 

There is a market of people who dont know much about online retailers and will buy whatever the local shop has because it looks cool. Think about the market for who buys a bike but rarely ever rides it, wants something good, but not crazy expensive. $4-5000 (getting into it price). Dual crowns look pretty cool too and its probably for bike park use and bigger travel is more macho. Its no different then car sales.  Most people shop with emotion, not reason.

Same here. I love the feeling of a dual crown fork. The other cool thing is that you can swap the fork. I also have a zeb which I use occasionally. Bike handling is really good but you have less travel. I would love a full dh bike, the new Phoenix accepts dropper posts. I’d like to try that one on a “enduro” setup. Bigger cassete and full travel fork. Sounds like an interesting project.

For the park rats, depending on what trails you actually ride, a shorter travel bike may make the most sense. A lot of full-on DH bikes feel a bit "sleddy", if you spend all your time on A-Line. But yeah, these kinds of builds will always be pretty niche, that's for sure. I had a good time when I did a "downduro" conversion of my Capra back in 2020, I liked how the bike rode. It didn't feel unbalanced at all (but then my build was 170/180 of course, so that was probably to be expected): https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/The-Downduro-Project-Dual-Crown-and-a….

I ride a polygon collosus N9 with a Ohlins DH38 at 170mm travel, and 25mm stem. With 12 speeds drivetrain and dropper. I like it better than when it was SC, but what I really want is a pedal-able DH bike with gearbox. Right now only some e-bikes come specced as enduro with DC fork.

Like above said, these bikes with 7 speeds and no dropper are more like park fleet bikes. 

kids these days won't remember this, but there used to be mini dh bikes. 

Not interested in stock bikes anymore,  for not too much money I can find a fabricator to fabricate a one off frame or have a minimum quantity order to a frame manufacturer.

The words “mini DH bike” just brought something back from the recesses of my mind.  I’ve owned a lot (like 40+) different bikes in my 28 years of riding.  In college, around the time the Athertons were on Commencal,  they came out with a mini DH bike, which I bought, I think it was literally called the Supreme Mini DH.  I think it was my first attempt at a “quiver killer” bike and was likely the first bike where I had separate wheelsets, one XC and one DH.  Problem was, it absolutely sucked at XC and wasn’t DH enough to keep up with my buddies on DH bikes when riding true DH tracks.  I think I only rode it for a few months before going back to a dedicated XC and DH bike.  


Around that same time, mid-00’s,  there were a bunch of companies that had multiple bikes marketed for DH.  I think for years Intense had the M3 and the Socom.  I think for a few years transition had 2 “DH” bikes.  The collegiate conference I raced in was filled with guys on mini or watered down DH bikes because most of our courses were fairly tame,  a lot of people would also race Slalom on the same bike.  I remember a guy from Les McRrae that would kill it in slalom on his dual crown Socom.  Problem was, those of us that would make it to nationals were in for a rude awakening on our smaller bikes.  One year at Angel Fire,  almost everyone from our conference got smoked by all the Colorado boys on proper DH rigs.  

 

Regular weekend warriors don’t need full-on dh-bikes nowadays, today a 170-180mm bike is more than capable on every dh-course. Or ride an endurofied dh-bike, like me (with a dropper and a widish range cassette) - not that i don’t want an enduro i can slap my Dorado up front on, but at the moment am not willing to spend money on a new frame! On top of this, i’m too picky with a frame’s details and standards and at the moment the only non-dh frame i’d be happy with is the Devinci Chainsaw which isn’t sold in my country… 

I think those 180 DH bikes, fill a niche for a certain rider that wants his bike to be better suited for fun riding at the park (set up for jumping I assume). I lack experience with downhill bikes, but I could imagine that a Commencal Supreme isn't as fun for jumping than maybe a Canyon Torque. Am I wrong? Most of the free riders for Canyon are on the Torque I think and the AL Tye for the Propaine riders. Honestly to me it seems that many modern DH bikes are way too racy for most consumers.

This seems to be the return of the freeride bike as Noah mentioned. The originals being the Slayer, the Bullit, the Uzzi, the Shore and a few others. Then bikes like the TR250, Scream and others. They either got dual crown 170 forks or later Totems and 36 180s. We pedaled around these 45 pounders without dropper posts and took them to the DH park. They weren't great anywhere but were pretty worth it when the terrain trended downwards or the lips were mellower. Who can forget the ladder bridges either?

Today's DH bikes seem so race focused IMO that bikes like this finally have a place again. Zeb or Boxxer and a little mellower geo, poppier suspension and they will be a blast in the bike park

I think that its worth taking into consideration that suspension quality over quantity plays a big part of it. Less travel that has better kinematics will feel like it has more bump eating capability than its longer legged opponent. My Raaw Madonna only has 160mm of travel but compared to my stumpy evo that extra 10mm feels a lot more like 20-30mm. I wasn't sure if a longer travel DC fork was going to even work, balance wise, but after bumping my zeb to 180 and spending a decent amount of time in the part with this this season, I have no issue putting a short-stroked DC on it, and will be picking up a Dh38 this offseason for park and DH shuttles next season.

No matter what shock I ran on the St Evo it could never match the level of chunk erasing ability of the Madonna. It, the Madonna, blows away my old 26" DH sled, by a landslide. 

Have we forgotten the venerable Kona Stinky? I was thinking this weekend how weird it was that there wasn't a single Kona at Rampage.

TBH DH bikes didn't progress much tech wise until the term Kinematics even became commonplace in MTB vernacular, that was only really in the last 5-6 years. Look at how little geo changed for instance with DH bikes. A 26" DH bike was the last that I owned but not the last that I rode, my point is still valid. At the end of the day the build is not as important at the core engineering that goes into the bike. The status, while a great bike for the price, gets overwhelmed very, very easily in legit DH race dblack trails. Putting a DC fork on a 180mm Status isn't going to change the fact that it won't handle chunk at pace...

After I posted my reply, I thought about the context of the argument. If your definition of DH park riding is laps of A-line then sure, kinematics won't matter much, lapping in-deep or 1199 different story. I haven't ridden anything except for the status, but all I can say is that my St Evo setup Air/Air with 150/160mm travel was a lot better than the new gen status, and that was with nearly identical fork and shock spec, 36 and float X. Upping the game to a coil/coil setup at 150/170mm on the st evo made it significantly better, and the Madonna is an order of magnitude better than that. 

A cheap park bike is still going to be a cheap park bike. If jump trails are your jam then cool run what you brung, set it up stiff and have fun! If lapping chunky DH race laps are float your boat you might be better served riding something that has more of specific focus on good suspension kinematics, that status does not.

My buddies and I have been arguing about this for the last year. After riding some of the newer enduro bikes and my Contra falling through, I feel that an over forked super enduro with a DC isnt a bad way to go, but that being said I didn't do a budget build and won't be putting a cheap DC fork on the bike either. I'll take less travel with higher end suspension, ohlins/ext etc over more travel with the garbage that comes on the lower end spec'd bikes.