On one of Bernard Kerrs recent WC videos he was holding some cut out foam floor matting for his back protector and elbows. Forget which round...
On one of Bernard Kerrs recent WC videos he was holding some cut out foam floor matting for his back protector and elbows. Forget which round it was but one of the European countries that mandate it for the race. Not ideal for Leatt but him being comfortable and being on the Podium must outweigh mandating he has to wear all their gear i guess
Bernie historically doesn't like elbow pads, I've seen him use expanded foam and tape to make super minimal pads to satisfy the rules like you said. Most recently I've seen him using a Leatt Airflex chest protector so maybe he has found one that suits him.
age no, heat yes. so if you leave your helmet in the car on a hot summer day on a regular basis that will result in...
age no, heat yes. so if you leave your helmet in the car on a hot summer day on a regular basis that will result in degradation to it's mechanical properties over time.
Oh yeah, I totally agree with this. Helmet or neck brace sitting in a closet isn't going to "expire" due to age. Helmet or brace being used regularly will wear out with use. Micro-dings, heat, sun, sweat, etc. all take a toll.
I have a couple helmets that I didn't use much, they're perfectly good as backups or loaners even though they're 5+ years old. Same goes for OP's neck brace that hasn't been getting used. It's fine.
Regarding protection gear, France is usually the country with the most stringent requirements, like elbow pads (Megavalanche 2019 mandated them, 2021 didn't though...) and back protectors. And WC DH riders used cardboard and sanitary pads taped to their jerseys to fake the protection equipment during checks.
That was the case a while ago with riders running loose jerseys showing bare backs, running only knee pads by the looks of it, while these days roost guards (Finn) and elbow pads with a chest protector (Loic) and the like seem to be much more common.
Regarding the neck brace, I remember planning to buy a full face helmet and a neck brace to "ride the parks, yo!" about 15 years ago when I was a high school/early college student before buying the first full suss bike. These days I despise full face helmets, cherry pick races that don't require them as much as possible, neck braces are out of the question of course, while on the other hand I have titanium implants in the cheekbone from a crash two years ago.
I definitely fall into the 'comfort over additional protection' camp as I don't like the feeling of a full face (never really got used to it) and mostly run just an open face helmet and knee pads.
Chafing and sweat. I don't ride much park these days, when at Whistler I prefer pedaling the valley trails with maybe one day using the lift.
Back in my park days I'd go opening bell to last chair pounding out as many top-to-bottom tech runs as I could at a fast pace (for me). I can't ride park mellow, it's gotta be all-in or I'm bored and unfocused, which is dangerous. This means I'm a sweaty, chafed mess. I've gotten bloody nipples doing Garbo laps just from jerseys and wind flapping. I tried the Leatt brace and just couldn't get on with it due to more heat, more chafing, just more stuff.
Like Primoz, I despise full face helmets. Hot, clammy, claustrophobic - though the new vented versions are better. I still wear one on the lift, but for most of my riding I want that freedom and air flow. A lot of the riding I do is definitely FF and maybe even neck brace territory, but I just want to ride my bike on hard stuff, out in nature, away from people, unencumbered by extra stuff. Less is more for me.
Regarding protection gear, France is usually the country with the most stringent requirements, like elbow pads (Megavalanche 2019 mandated them, 2021 didn't though...) and back protectors...
Regarding protection gear, France is usually the country with the most stringent requirements, like elbow pads (Megavalanche 2019 mandated them, 2021 didn't though...) and back protectors. And WC DH riders used cardboard and sanitary pads taped to their jerseys to fake the protection equipment during checks.
That was the case a while ago with riders running loose jerseys showing bare backs, running only knee pads by the looks of it, while these days roost guards (Finn) and elbow pads with a chest protector (Loic) and the like seem to be much more common.
Regarding the neck brace, I remember planning to buy a full face helmet and a neck brace to "ride the parks, yo!" about 15 years ago when I was a high school/early college student before buying the first full suss bike. These days I despise full face helmets, cherry pick races that don't require them as much as possible, neck braces are out of the question of course, while on the other hand I have titanium implants in the cheekbone from a crash two years ago.
I definitely fall into the 'comfort over additional protection' camp as I don't like the feeling of a full face (never really got used to it) and mostly run just an open face helmet and knee pads.
I think it was Andorra that dqed Neko for the fake cardboard back protector a few years ago
Regarding protection gear, France is usually the country with the most stringent requirements, like elbow pads (Megavalanche 2019 mandated them, 2021 didn't though...) and back protectors...
Regarding protection gear, France is usually the country with the most stringent requirements, like elbow pads (Megavalanche 2019 mandated them, 2021 didn't though...) and back protectors. And WC DH riders used cardboard and sanitary pads taped to their jerseys to fake the protection equipment during checks.
That was the case a while ago with riders running loose jerseys showing bare backs, running only knee pads by the looks of it, while these days roost guards (Finn) and elbow pads with a chest protector (Loic) and the like seem to be much more common.
Regarding the neck brace, I remember planning to buy a full face helmet and a neck brace to "ride the parks, yo!" about 15 years ago when I was a high school/early college student before buying the first full suss bike. These days I despise full face helmets, cherry pick races that don't require them as much as possible, neck braces are out of the question of course, while on the other hand I have titanium implants in the cheekbone from a crash two years ago.
I definitely fall into the 'comfort over additional protection' camp as I don't like the feeling of a full face (never really got used to it) and mostly run just an open face helmet and knee pads.
Your story is the exact reason I wear a full face on almost every ride. If your a reasonably fast rider your approaching or at dirt bike speeds, maybe exceeding. No one would ride a dirt bike with shit ass mountain bike gear. They wear proper protection. The “I don’t like it” or “it’s not trendy” argument is stupid. Head trauma is what is stupid, broken jaw bones are stupid. I’m baffled by this every time I ride. I’m more baffled when I see pros sending it in half shells, I get it your really good, but when you crash it will be worse than the average rider.
As a defence, half of my usual ride is done on tarmac (access and return to home) in traffic. In one riding area its not uncommon to see either logging or sometimes even construction trucks on the gravel uphill, farming machinery, etc. We have cases of tarmac uphills where cars passing by are not uncommon.
At most I unclip my helmet, but even that rarely. I would not be riding uphill inca full face. I always have the half shell on my head.
Going downhill it's up to me, my capabilities And my stupidity whether I will mangle my cheekbone or not. In traffic there are many more factors.
And no worries, when I said nothing will change in regards to helmet choice most people were dumbfounded as they expected I'll go for a full face Instantly. Someone I know in another riding group bit a stump and spit out most of the front teeth. A few people in their group bought full face helmets, he did not.
Regarding proper protection... Do you wear a back protector? Elbow pads? Etc. The same argument could be made for a lot of things. And another reasoning for my choice of helmet, I come from an XC background. I started wearing kneepads in 2017, after 10 years of riding full suspension bikes.
Your story is the exact reason I wear a full face on almost every ride. If your a reasonably fast rider your approaching or at dirt...
Your story is the exact reason I wear a full face on almost every ride. If your a reasonably fast rider your approaching or at dirt bike speeds, maybe exceeding. No one would ride a dirt bike with shit ass mountain bike gear. They wear proper protection. The “I don’t like it” or “it’s not trendy” argument is stupid. Head trauma is what is stupid, broken jaw bones are stupid. I’m baffled by this every time I ride. I’m more baffled when I see pros sending it in half shells, I get it your really good, but when you crash it will be worse than the average rider.
Wrecking your teeth or your jaw won't ruin your life, wrecking your brain will. A FF helmet doesn't necessarily protect from brain injury better than other helmet formats.
Of course the same can be said about neck injury and braces. If I still rode a lot of park I'd really have to think about this one.
Another point in all this is the safety paradox. The more protective equipment we have, the crazier shit we're willing to try. I certainly keep myself slightly more in check when I'm just wearing a trail lid. Pushing 50 and not being made of rubber anymore doesn't hurt either...
As a defence, half of my usual ride is done on tarmac (access and return to home) in traffic. In one riding area its not uncommon...
As a defence, half of my usual ride is done on tarmac (access and return to home) in traffic. In one riding area its not uncommon to see either logging or sometimes even construction trucks on the gravel uphill, farming machinery, etc. We have cases of tarmac uphills where cars passing by are not uncommon.
At most I unclip my helmet, but even that rarely. I would not be riding uphill inca full face. I always have the half shell on my head.
Going downhill it's up to me, my capabilities And my stupidity whether I will mangle my cheekbone or not. In traffic there are many more factors.
And no worries, when I said nothing will change in regards to helmet choice most people were dumbfounded as they expected I'll go for a full face Instantly. Someone I know in another riding group bit a stump and spit out most of the front teeth. A few people in their group bought full face helmets, he did not.
Regarding proper protection... Do you wear a back protector? Elbow pads? Etc. The same argument could be made for a lot of things. And another reasoning for my choice of helmet, I come from an XC background. I started wearing kneepads in 2017, after 10 years of riding full suspension bikes.
To each their own. If I rode on tarmac to my local trails and had a XC background I would probably be doing the same as you. I’m fortunate that I live in an area with really good trails that is cool temps most of the year. Most also have climb trails that I don’t wear a helmet on because it’s just a slow grind up hill with no car traffic. So a full face really isn’t a huge sacrifice in my opinion.
To post to the original subject I do plan on getting a neck brace, primarily for park and shuttle days. Which is only a few times a year but I find by the end of multiple laps I feel good and I am riding fast so the extra protection wouldn’t hurt.
The final disappearance of neck braces in moto directly correlated to the Gypsy Tales podcast episode with with Ryno.
He came on last season a few weeks into SuperCross season & discussed how he felt proper technique and body position were very much limited by the neck brackes.
He even pointed out that Marvin Musquin should take his neck brace OFF so he could win again. The very next Supercross race, Marvin has no neck brace on and wins the damn race.
I've not seen a single neck brace in moto since that win.
Absolutely no real science involved in the decisions revolving around wearing them or not wearing them. But the moment a popular rider in either moto or DH is crippled by a neck injury, they'll re-appear.
Tried one for a bit. Straps installed correctly. Beat the heck out of the back of my helmet when I'd least expect it in the steeps and couldn't move my head 100% freely. I'm not sacrificing my field of vision or ANY sudden turn of my head that I need to save my ass. So I ditched it.
Besides, my neck has an impact fracture from childhood in my C3 and everyone's necks are all different lengths and widths and all of the helmets have different dimensions, everyone's chest and shoulders.
So all of that "quasi-science" that goes into determining what angle to stop the head at to prevent neck injuries....it can only work with one specific brand and size of helmet on one specific person at a specific height off the chest/back of a specific person.
They aren't knee pads that can stop an impact. The human body and the size/shape of the helmet are all so variable that no science can accurately tell us what neck brace is gonna stop a spinal injury. It's voodoo at best.
There was a 10 year study on neck braces that everyone should read - https://www.actionsportsems.com/case-study-neck-brace. I've been wearing one for years. As far as freedom of...
There was a 10 year study on neck braces that everyone should read - https://www.actionsportsems.com/case-study-neck-brace. I've been wearing one for years. As far as freedom of movement etc - invest the time in setup and also have your brace on when you're trying out helmets to check for interference.
Maybe I’m missing something, but this study compares injuries with and without a neckbrace and shows way more injuries without but also says no one is...
Maybe I’m missing something, but this study compares injuries with and without a neckbrace and shows way more injuries without but also says no one is wearing a neck brace. So what is the sample size of riders who are actually wearing a brace? If a small number of riders in the study are wearing a brace it’s possible there’s too small of a sample to do this kind of comparison and not really apples to apples.
Allen, you are correct in the main, but we do have the total numbers published in the attached PDF at the quoted URL that are wearing a brace and and those not wearing a brace in the group as a whole. 44.6% of those who had an accident in this study were wearing a brace, the others were not. Of the total study population, 2.8% had a critical neck injury. Of those 2.8%, 239 or 89% were not wearing a neck brace and 11% were.
So, we do know nearly half those who had an accident were wearing a brace and that nearly all of the small proportion of who sustained a significant neck injury were not wearing a brace.
Having said that, we don’t see all the data and so it’s not possible to calculate the chance that these differences happened simply by chance. There’s face validity that they did not, but that’s not the same as statistical likelihood. We also don’t know anything about the riders who wore a brace as compared to those who did not. For example, it’s possible, if unlikely, that all those not wearing a brace were crazy risk takers with little skill, constantly having major unrecorded crashes due to sending stuff they should have been banned from. Whilst those that didn’t have a neck injury were sensible people who took every precaution, not just wearing a brace, but also avoiding risky riding all together and almost never falling off - again unlikely. But both are possible and we do not have the data published to refute that and similar potentially contributing factors.
So, I agree, since we don’t know enough. Some data has not been published for some reason (not collected or due to inbuilt bias in the authors?), so we must be careful when quoting the data.
However, in the real world, it’s likely these 8529 riders who had an injury attended by EMS were on average of equivalent skill, stupidity, age, fitness and so on - this area sometimes has events with 1000 riders in a weekend the authors report.
As a result, each of us can probably say there’s face validity (NOT a strong factual basis then) that there’s likely a benefit in wearing a brace from the point of view of significant neck injury, so long as we recognise it may be necessary to ride safely when wearing one to obtain the full benefit in a freak accident.
And in terms of regulation of riders, we can also probably say that until all the data from this study is published, statistically analysed and peer reviewed, it should not be used alone to mandate rules, such as those for competitive DH races.
For example, there may be other bad outcomes neither measured nor reported here that are associated with the use of neck braces. Regulation would require attention to that matter too.
To dig this up, suffered a crash in my sight lap last weekend before the actual dh race that day. Ended up in the hospital Sunday night and ultimately got a surgery first thing Monday to fuse my c4,5,6.
The spinal ortho surgeons at Harborview were adamant that the leatt brace did not make my injury worse and likely prevented it from being worse. It is expected I will make a full recovery minus the 10% loss in flexibility in my neck due to the fuse.
I’ll be pushing these things on my friends for the rest of my life.
Part of my hospital stay involved me sharing a room with another fellow my same age (34) with the same vertebrae in his spine damaged but in a different way. He was paralyzed from the chest down and could use 1 arm. I sat there for a few days and got to see first hand how it could have been. His parents were moving his stuff out of his apartment, he had no eta to leave hospital. He was positive for a whole day because he could feel some more things but then I got to listen to his pt tell him even if he started feeling more it didn’t mean he would get movement back. Just an absolutely heartbreaking situation that made my own seem relatively trivial knowing that that this could have been my own fate potentially, especially if I had not been wearing the neck brace.
So as someone who feels lucky that he can walk and will be able to pick his baby up again in a couple months please give neck braces another try.
To dig this up, suffered a crash in my sight lap last weekend before the actual dh race that day. Ended up in the hospital Sunday...
To dig this up, suffered a crash in my sight lap last weekend before the actual dh race that day. Ended up in the hospital Sunday night and ultimately got a surgery first thing Monday to fuse my c4,5,6.
The spinal ortho surgeons at Harborview were adamant that the leatt brace did not make my injury worse and likely prevented it from being worse. It is expected I will make a full recovery minus the 10% loss in flexibility in my neck due to the fuse.
I’ll be pushing these things on my friends for the rest of my life.
Part of my hospital stay involved me sharing a room with another fellow my same age (34) with the same vertebrae in his spine damaged but in a different way. He was paralyzed from the chest down and could use 1 arm. I sat there for a few days and got to see first hand how it could have been. His parents were moving his stuff out of his apartment, he had no eta to leave hospital. He was positive for a whole day because he could feel some more things but then I got to listen to his pt tell him even if he started feeling more it didn’t mean he would get movement back. Just an absolutely heartbreaking situation that made my own seem relatively trivial knowing that that this could have been my own fate potentially, especially if I had not been wearing the neck brace.
So as someone who feels lucky that he can walk and will be able to pick his baby up again in a couple months please give neck braces another try.
Nah. But hope it helped you. I wrecked more with one on than without.
Those things were never meant to be worn while divebombing down and looking UP at the same time.
Having full range of motion of my head,neck and body more greatly reducing the chance of me landing head down than having one on. Been there. Done that.
Even if you had one specific brace custom curved and designed for your one specific body, frame, chest, spine, shoulders, neck circumfrence, spine length, helmet curvature and pre-existing range of motion...I would still ride less agile and agility is priority #1 in accident avoidance.
I currently do not wear one but I should. A Leatt brace saved my life after a Kona dh bike (Operator) snapped, I almost broke my...
I currently do not wear one but I should. A Leatt brace saved my life after a Kona dh bike (Operator) snapped, I almost broke my neck. I was lucky enough to receive only 2 fractured vertebrae. The doctor said without the leatt brace, I would have snapped my neck and potentially been paralyzed. Now I’m the jack ass like everyone else wanting comfort. I have forgone wearing a leatt I will prob start wearing it again.
Bro, I had a Kona operator snap just below the head tube in a similar situation. Darn thing almost killed me
I'd be awesome if some people from the neck-brace-wearing crowd would share re brands they've tried or any other advice on picking one out, determining fit, set-up, etc.
I have a couple helmets that I didn't use much, they're perfectly good as backups or loaners even though they're 5+ years old. Same goes for OP's neck brace that hasn't been getting used. It's fine.
That was the case a while ago with riders running loose jerseys showing bare backs, running only knee pads by the looks of it, while these days roost guards (Finn) and elbow pads with a chest protector (Loic) and the like seem to be much more common.
Regarding the neck brace, I remember planning to buy a full face helmet and a neck brace to "ride the parks, yo!" about 15 years ago when I was a high school/early college student before buying the first full suss bike. These days I despise full face helmets, cherry pick races that don't require them as much as possible, neck braces are out of the question of course, while on the other hand I have titanium implants in the cheekbone from a crash two years ago.
I definitely fall into the 'comfort over additional protection' camp as I don't like the feeling of a full face (never really got used to it) and mostly run just an open face helmet and knee pads.
Back in my park days I'd go opening bell to last chair pounding out as many top-to-bottom tech runs as I could at a fast pace (for me). I can't ride park mellow, it's gotta be all-in or I'm bored and unfocused, which is dangerous. This means I'm a sweaty, chafed mess. I've gotten bloody nipples doing Garbo laps just from jerseys and wind flapping. I tried the Leatt brace and just couldn't get on with it due to more heat, more chafing, just more stuff.
Like Primoz, I despise full face helmets. Hot, clammy, claustrophobic - though the new vented versions are better. I still wear one on the lift, but for most of my riding I want that freedom and air flow. A lot of the riding I do is definitely FF and maybe even neck brace territory, but I just want to ride my bike on hard stuff, out in nature, away from people, unencumbered by extra stuff. Less is more for me.
At most I unclip my helmet, but even that rarely. I would not be riding uphill inca full face. I always have the half shell on my head.
Going downhill it's up to me, my capabilities And my stupidity whether I will mangle my cheekbone or not. In traffic there are many more factors.
And no worries, when I said nothing will change in regards to helmet choice most people were dumbfounded as they expected I'll go for a full face Instantly. Someone I know in another riding group bit a stump and spit out most of the front teeth. A few people in their group bought full face helmets, he did not.
Regarding proper protection... Do you wear a back protector? Elbow pads? Etc. The same argument could be made for a lot of things. And another reasoning for my choice of helmet, I come from an XC background. I started wearing kneepads in 2017, after 10 years of riding full suspension bikes.
Of course the same can be said about neck injury and braces. If I still rode a lot of park I'd really have to think about this one.
Another point in all this is the safety paradox. The more protective equipment we have, the crazier shit we're willing to try. I certainly keep myself slightly more in check when I'm just wearing a trail lid. Pushing 50 and not being made of rubber anymore doesn't hurt either...
To post to the original subject I do plan on getting a neck brace, primarily for park and shuttle days. Which is only a few times a year but I find by the end of multiple laps I feel good and I am riding fast so the extra protection wouldn’t hurt.
He came on last season a few weeks into SuperCross season & discussed how he felt proper technique and body position were very much limited by the neck brackes.
He even pointed out that Marvin Musquin should take his neck brace OFF so he could win again. The very next Supercross race, Marvin has no neck brace on and wins the damn race.
I've not seen a single neck brace in moto since that win.
Absolutely no real science involved in the decisions revolving around wearing them or not wearing them. But the moment a popular rider in either moto or DH is crippled by a neck injury, they'll re-appear.
Tried one for a bit. Straps installed correctly. Beat the heck out of the back of my helmet when I'd least expect it in the steeps and couldn't move my head 100% freely. I'm not sacrificing my field of vision or ANY sudden turn of my head that I need to save my ass. So I ditched it.
Besides, my neck has an impact fracture from childhood in my C3 and everyone's necks are all different lengths and widths and all of the helmets have different dimensions, everyone's chest and shoulders.
So all of that "quasi-science" that goes into determining what angle to stop the head at to prevent neck injuries....it can only work with one specific brand and size of helmet on one specific person at a specific height off the chest/back of a specific person.
They aren't knee pads that can stop an impact. The human body and the size/shape of the helmet are all so variable that no science can accurately tell us what neck brace is gonna stop a spinal injury. It's voodoo at best.
So, we do know nearly half those who had an accident were wearing a brace and that nearly all of the small proportion of who sustained a significant neck injury were not wearing a brace.
Having said that, we don’t see all the data and so it’s not possible to calculate the chance that these differences happened simply by chance. There’s face validity that they did not, but that’s not the same as statistical likelihood. We also don’t know anything about the riders who wore a brace as compared to those who did not. For example, it’s possible, if unlikely, that all those not wearing a brace were crazy risk takers with little skill, constantly having major unrecorded crashes due to sending stuff they should have been banned from. Whilst those that didn’t have a neck injury were sensible people who took every precaution, not just wearing a brace, but also avoiding risky riding all together and almost never falling off - again unlikely. But both are possible and we do not have the data published to refute that and similar potentially contributing factors.
So, I agree, since we don’t know enough. Some data has not been published for some reason (not collected or due to inbuilt bias in the authors?), so we must be careful when quoting the data.
However, in the real world, it’s likely these 8529 riders who had an injury attended by EMS were on average of equivalent skill, stupidity, age, fitness and so on - this area sometimes has events with 1000 riders in a weekend the authors report.
As a result, each of us can probably say there’s face validity (NOT a strong factual basis then) that there’s likely a benefit in wearing a brace from the point of view of significant neck injury, so long as we recognise it may be necessary to ride safely when wearing one to obtain the full benefit in a freak accident.
And in terms of regulation of riders, we can also probably say that until all the data from this study is published, statistically analysed and peer reviewed, it should not be used alone to mandate rules, such as those for competitive DH races.
For example, there may be other bad outcomes neither measured nor reported here that are associated with the use of neck braces. Regulation would require attention to that matter too.
To dig this up, suffered a crash in my sight lap last weekend before the actual dh race that day. Ended up in the hospital Sunday night and ultimately got a surgery first thing Monday to fuse my c4,5,6.
The spinal ortho surgeons at Harborview were adamant that the leatt brace did not make my injury worse and likely prevented it from being worse. It is expected I will make a full recovery minus the 10% loss in flexibility in my neck due to the fuse.
I’ll be pushing these things on my friends for the rest of my life.
Part of my hospital stay involved me sharing a room with another fellow my same age (34) with the same vertebrae in his spine damaged but in a different way. He was paralyzed from the chest down and could use 1 arm. I sat there for a few days and got to see first hand how it could have been. His parents were moving his stuff out of his apartment, he had no eta to leave hospital. He was positive for a whole day because he could feel some more things but then I got to listen to his pt tell him even if he started feeling more it didn’t mean he would get movement back. Just an absolutely heartbreaking situation that made my own seem relatively trivial knowing that that this could have been my own fate potentially, especially if I had not been wearing the neck brace.
So as someone who feels lucky that he can walk and will be able to pick his baby up again in a couple months please give neck braces another try.
Nah. But hope it helped you. I wrecked more with one on than without.
Those things were never meant to be worn while divebombing down and looking UP at the same time.
Having full range of motion of my head,neck and body more greatly reducing the chance of me landing head down than having one on. Been there. Done that.
Even if you had one specific brace custom curved and designed for your one specific body, frame, chest, spine, shoulders, neck circumfrence, spine length, helmet curvature and pre-existing range of motion...I would still ride less agile and agility is priority #1 in accident avoidance.
Bro, I had a Kona operator snap just below the head tube in a similar situation. Darn thing almost killed me
I'd be awesome if some people from the neck-brace-wearing crowd would share re brands they've tried or any other advice on picking one out, determining fit, set-up, etc.
Post a reply to: What happened to neck braces in DH?