I think they should have a new format.
Let all riders take their first run without receiving scores. Then take an intermission and let the judges rank them all together and release the scores once all the first runs are completed. The judges could compare all the runs on video, and get them stacked correctly. Give the riders 30 minutes after the scores are released to plan their second run. And then run the rest of the comp giving scores as they go. This would eliminate the need to "leave room" for higher scores. It doesnt seem so hard. Yes it would leave a larger time gap for shenanigans but it would be much more fair, and I doubt riders would disagree.
Rampage is bonkers, every rider threw down so huge. Storch was absolutely gunning for the win, you could tell he was frothing. Such a bummer not to see Semenuk get a full run crashing on the same jump. I think Andreu’s run was the winner, wild speed and back to back tricks from sketchy landings and run ins. Oppo 3’s are for slopestyle, I don’t think they should get a higher score at Rampage. No denying the top three riders were those guys but Andreu’s run was true rampage style. And the Brendan score was really shit. That line was epic.
I think they should have a new format.
Let all riders take their first run without receiving scores. Then take an intermission and let the judges rank them all together and release the scores once all the first runs are completed. The judges could compare all the runs on video, and get them stacked correctly. Give the riders 30 minutes after the scores are released to plan their second run. And then run the rest of the comp giving scores as they go. This would eliminate the need to "leave room" for higher scores. It doesnt seem so hard. Yes it would leave a larger time gap for shenanigans but it would be much more fair, and I doubt riders would disagree.
ok, so i'm watching rampage webcast now. brendog just went. he was the 2nd rider to drop in today and the first one to make it...
ok, so i'm watching rampage webcast now. brendog just went. he was the 2nd rider to drop in today and the first one to make it down without crashing (only godziek went before...gnarly). brendan had a flawless, epic run off the rock, hit the canyon gap, did a flip. the announcers mention the judge have a tough problem that they have to "leave room" for scoring. brendan gets a 67.66.
i had this article about "how to win rampage or at least get better than 9th" written last week. i never published b/c it felt too whiny and dumb. i do, however, want to put this protest on record before anyone else drops in...i had this written in the article and i still stand by it. sucks. brendan's score is way better than a 67 considering low to mid 90's generally win the event.
edit so i can be very clear about how i feel - i love spangler, kyle, vink and the judges. if anyone is qualified to decide which of these diverse and impossible runs is the gnarliest, it's this group of incredible humans, diggers and riders. they know their shit. more than any of us by a landslide. it's the FORMAT that's the problem, not their opinion
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- There's no way around the fact that someone has to go down the mountain first. Additionally and unfortunately, Rampage is a judged event, subject to the imperfect nature of humans. Judges are notorious, in any sport, for being conservative at the beginning of an event. They have to be. If they genuinely think the first run of the entire day is the winning run and score it 100, they set themselves up for failure because run 2 could be just a bit better and so on. It's the problem of the system, and if you're an early competitor, this problem can't be ignored. We have two solutions for the first handful of riders down (not just the first)
Early Riders Take It Easy
1. Do anything you can to delay your start - pretend you have a mechanical or stick your finger down your throat to barf at the top of the hill - it's a freeride event and everyone is pretty darn nice at a freeride event because they're all friends. There's no UCI to DSQ your ass and you may get lucky enough to be put to the end of the start list boosting your chances by at least 3 places in the results sheet should you nail your run.
2. If you're of higher ethical and moral character than sticking your finger down your throat to puke at the start, then just forget about your first run. Throw it out the window. Don't even be nervous because you have no chance. You can't win. You probably can't even podium (we're too lazy to check the history on that). Do something funny for the camera at the start, cruise the ridge, stop for autographs and selfies, wave to the helicopter; this is your chance to get some social media exposure and air time that will make the Red Bull highlight reel that hits the major news networks. As an early rider, your stock run, no matter how earth-shattering, even if you nail it, will net you, at best, a score of 87. You'll be completely forgotten until your next run, because the big guns are still ahead and that's just how it works.
I missed Brendan's run yesterday, but re-watched the first few runs today. The guy deserved a higher score, for sure. It's really hard to judge Rampage unless you're there and have seen the lines in person. I don't know if the angles always translate to the video...but Fairclough's line looked scary as fuck, fast, and...techy. He should have scored higher than 10th.
That said, I'm glad that no one died, or appeared to get seriously hurt. Honestly, I feel guilty watching this event every year.
Someone commented above, that maybe the solution is to hold the scores until all of the first runs are completed. That's kind of strange to think about, in terms of the drama of the event, but might actually be a more fair approach.
Brendan Fairclough: you deserve way more than you got for your score, but I'm glad you got that McGazza award, at least.
The solution could be just as simple as giving the judges the flexibility to adjust scores accordingly after seeing all the runs. Or also having an independent “watch dog” panel of 5 people who behind the scenes-throw a “red flag” if they feel someone’s run deserves a scoring review. Just like NFL......”After further review....Brendawgs will get 5 more points” .
*****I would caution that with all the “arm chair” demands for format changes, judging transparency, less tricks, more raw lines, and everything else- >>>that Red Bull -will one day just “pull the plug” on the whole contest itself - and says “f-this , it’s gotten to be more trouble than it’s worth”. Then in 2020 A.D. it ends up being: RAMPAGE sponsored by Lipton Ice Tea.....where everyone is on 29ers, wearing spandex, and the head judge is Richard Cunningham
If people are getting so worked up over the tricking vs line judging, why not eliminate one? Tricks don't get judged (but throw them all you want) therefore more time and effort is put into a big 'freeride' line. Keep the slope style on the slope style courses, racing on racing tracks and freereide on big freeride lines?
It is an almighty task of the judges to nail it every time on the spot. Every year they open themselves up for criticism, dispite making...
It is an almighty task of the judges to nail it every time on the spot. Every year they open themselves up for criticism, dispite making efforts to rectify any previous injustice. I do however feel Brendog was the unlucky victim this year, largely to do with format, although the McGazza award for him and his team was some consolation and very justified.
Would a fair and reasonable solution be to keep the first run scores hidden, until all riders drop, so as to gauge the overall standard and level of riding, and then pitch everyone accordingly.
The second runs however could still be scored live, judging whether riders have improved or not on their first runs.
I understand that this would have a detrimental effect on overall spectator excitement. However, on the whole, the second runs are where the excitement from the scoring builds.
The first runs are inherently exciting just getting to whiteness the creative madness of each rider and team in full, after avidly refreshing Instagram, vital and PB all week for build updates and riders first hits.
If this point has already been made, ignor me.
Rampage kicks ass.
I hope there is a jokes Deakinator Edit to follow.
This seems like a great idea. First runs are scored after everyone has had them and the overall level is known. Then second runs live. That would make it much easier for the judges and most likely prevent any “first guy down” bias.
Lacondeguy’s was my favourite but I do agree it was close between him and Reeder.
But if you want bias, look at the people’s choice winners. I think it was last year that Brendon was winning before he had even done his first run....
Imagine if helmet cam footage was part of the judging format.....
with the event being more of an all day jam than a contest
maybe in some years when the tech exists for live helmet cam VR tech beamed into our homes!
The solution could be just as simple as giving the judges the flexibility to adjust scores accordingly after seeing all the runs. Or also having an...
The solution could be just as simple as giving the judges the flexibility to adjust scores accordingly after seeing all the runs. Or also having an independent “watch dog” panel of 5 people who behind the scenes-throw a “red flag” if they feel someone’s run deserves a scoring review. Just like NFL......”After further review....Brendawgs will get 5 more points” .
*****I would caution that with all the “arm chair” demands for format changes, judging transparency, less tricks, more raw lines, and everything else- >>>that Red Bull -will one day just “pull the plug” on the whole contest itself - and says “f-this , it’s gotten to be more trouble than it’s worth”. Then in 2020 A.D. it ends up being: RAMPAGE sponsored by Lipton Ice Tea.....where everyone is on 29ers, wearing spandex, and the head judge is Richard Cunningham
Im pretty confident with the mediocre payout for riders, and other expenses for Redbull that they won't be pulling out. They are straight raking it in on this cash cow of an event.
They need to make 2 key changes to the format to make it way more fair. First: They shouldn't reveal the scores until after a full round of runs. Second: They need to break the start order up into 2 blocks. 1-10 and 11-20 for example. Flip the start order blocks for the second round of runs so that 11-20 go first the second round and then 1-10. This would be manageable for the riders, open options for stategy, and more evenly distribute the impression of the run in the minds of the judges.
The problem with the way Rampage is judged isn't that the scores are known too soon, it is that the standard that the rider's are judged against is known too late. The standards that the riders are compared to need to be know before the event starts instead of half way through. Judge riders on what they did, not on what someone else might do in the future.
Judges need change how they view the process of doing their job. Currently they look at "Difficulty of Line, Air Amplitude, Control and Fluidity and Tricks and Style." But they cannot accurately judge those criteria if they are basing it off of what might happen. So they need to get together and create standards for as many of those criteria as possible, and for the criteria that rely solely on opinion, each judge will need to base what they witness a rider do and compare it to how close it came to what they think is "perfect execution."
I think that Criteria like Average Steepness of the line, Average Technicality of the line, Average Lip to Landing Distance of Jumps on the line, Dangers of the Line, Trick Execution and Trick Difficulty can all have one standard that is determined by the judges before the event, and is shared by them. Criteria such as How High a rider sent it, How Controlled the rider was, How Fluid they were, How Difficult the Trick is to execute on that feature, and How Stylish they were are all based on opinion, leaving each individual judge to compare how the rider did in those criteria compared to what the judge thinks is possible or is expecting.
I think that this approach would eliminate the need to "leave room for future scores" and would make the judging more consistent and accurate for all riders, regardless of when they drop, or what is their particular style (racer, huck fest guy, or slope style guy.) Because in reality, free ride is all about being free to ride down the mountain your way, not being forced to adopt some other rider's style in order to score well.
Maybe this is the solution: hook up ten mountain bikers to heart rate and breathing monitors, and make them watch each run. Whichever participant creates the...
Maybe this is the solution: hook up ten mountain bikers to heart rate and breathing monitors, and make them watch each run. Whichever participant creates the greatest variability in heart rate and breathing, in standard deviations for the specific individual, while landing a top-to-bottom run wins.
It’s data driven, can be adjusted for favorite-rider bias after we get enough data, and captures the reason we love to watch.
My heart rate and breathing pattern were going haywire watching the more raw parts of Brendan’s run and the top of Jordie’s. On the other hand, I didn’t feel myself physically responding to the tricks until they were massive or were on a difficult-to-trick features: Lacondeguy’s consecutive hits, Lunn’s 720, Nell’s flat drop flip up top, and a few of Rheeder’s tricks.
I like the 4 categories but it they need weighted differently.
Air and Amplitude 25 now, adjust to 35%
Style/Tricks 25 now, adjust to 10%
Line Difficulty -25 now, adjust to 35%
Fluidity - 25 now, adjust to 20%
Air and amplitude is easy
Style/Tricks - Rampage should be about where you're tricking, not what tricks. Low points for folks only tricking their dirt jumps at the bottom (and yes, Bizet did NOT get robbed in 2017)
Line Difficulty - Should be about the features, size, and steepness of the line, should also be set in stone before they drop in.
Fluidity - Shouldn't compare other riders to one another but more about how they ride their own line. are they charging, or is it noticeable that they being tentative before dropping into a section, obviously separating where they have to go slow, like right before DJ Brandt's chute etc.
I totally agree judged sports are dumb, coming from a “racer” first. However this is not a race there is no time (it’s the easiest way...
I totally agree judged sports are dumb, coming from a “racer” first. However this is not a race there is no time (it’s the easiest way to define a winner imo) and an event like rampage is hard to quantify by numbers, so why do it? To me there is one winner and everyone else. A podium is not appropriate the score should not be known outside of the judges box, they could then do it however they felt kept them accurate. To me Rampage should only have the one winner without a podium the riders must vote anonymously after compleation not allowing for themselves to be selected. Maybe, maybe an award for scariest moment ridden out.
The solution could be just as simple as giving the judges the flexibility to adjust scores accordingly after seeing all the runs. Or also having an...
The solution could be just as simple as giving the judges the flexibility to adjust scores accordingly after seeing all the runs. Or also having an independent “watch dog” panel of 5 people who behind the scenes-throw a “red flag” if they feel someone’s run deserves a scoring review. Just like NFL......”After further review....Brendawgs will get 5 more points” .
*****I would caution that with all the “arm chair” demands for format changes, judging transparency, less tricks, more raw lines, and everything else- >>>that Red Bull -will one day just “pull the plug” on the whole contest itself - and says “f-this , it’s gotten to be more trouble than it’s worth”. Then in 2020 A.D. it ends up being: RAMPAGE sponsored by Lipton Ice Tea.....where everyone is on 29ers, wearing spandex, and the head judge is Richard Cunningham
If you do the math on this event, I'd about bet it's the cheapest thing they do all year. The riders are the labor here.
Let all riders take their first run without receiving scores. Then take an intermission and let the judges rank them all together and release the scores once all the first runs are completed. The judges could compare all the runs on video, and get them stacked correctly. Give the riders 30 minutes after the scores are released to plan their second run. And then run the rest of the comp giving scores as they go. This would eliminate the need to "leave room" for higher scores. It doesnt seem so hard. Yes it would leave a larger time gap for shenanigans but it would be much more fair, and I doubt riders would disagree.
Let all riders take their first run without receiving scores. Then take an intermission and let the judges rank them all together and release the scores once all the first runs are completed. The judges could compare all the runs on video, and get them stacked correctly. Give the riders 30 minutes after the scores are released to plan their second run. And then run the rest of the comp giving scores as they go. This would eliminate the need to "leave room" for higher scores. It doesnt seem so hard. Yes it would leave a larger time gap for shenanigans but it would be much more fair, and I doubt riders would disagree.
That said, I'm glad that no one died, or appeared to get seriously hurt. Honestly, I feel guilty watching this event every year.
Someone commented above, that maybe the solution is to hold the scores until all of the first runs are completed. That's kind of strange to think about, in terms of the drama of the event, but might actually be a more fair approach.
Brendan Fairclough: you deserve way more than you got for your score, but I'm glad you got that McGazza award, at least.
*****I would caution that with all the “arm chair” demands for format changes, judging transparency, less tricks, more raw lines, and everything else- >>>that Red Bull -will one day just “pull the plug” on the whole contest itself - and says “f-this , it’s gotten to be more trouble than it’s worth”. Then in 2020 A.D. it ends up being: RAMPAGE sponsored by Lipton Ice Tea.....where everyone is on 29ers, wearing spandex, and the head judge is Richard Cunningham
Lacondeguy’s was my favourite but I do agree it was close between him and Reeder.
But if you want bias, look at the people’s choice winners. I think it was last year that Brendon was winning before he had even done his first run....
with the event being more of an all day jam than a contest
maybe in some years when the tech exists for live helmet cam VR tech beamed into our homes!
Judges need change how they view the process of doing their job. Currently they look at "Difficulty of Line, Air Amplitude, Control and Fluidity and Tricks and Style." But they cannot accurately judge those criteria if they are basing it off of what might happen. So they need to get together and create standards for as many of those criteria as possible, and for the criteria that rely solely on opinion, each judge will need to base what they witness a rider do and compare it to how close it came to what they think is "perfect execution."
I think that Criteria like Average Steepness of the line, Average Technicality of the line, Average Lip to Landing Distance of Jumps on the line, Dangers of the Line, Trick Execution and Trick Difficulty can all have one standard that is determined by the judges before the event, and is shared by them. Criteria such as How High a rider sent it, How Controlled the rider was, How Fluid they were, How Difficult the Trick is to execute on that feature, and How Stylish they were are all based on opinion, leaving each individual judge to compare how the rider did in those criteria compared to what the judge thinks is possible or is expecting.
I think that this approach would eliminate the need to "leave room for future scores" and would make the judging more consistent and accurate for all riders, regardless of when they drop, or what is their particular style (racer, huck fest guy, or slope style guy.) Because in reality, free ride is all about being free to ride down the mountain your way, not being forced to adopt some other rider's style in order to score well.
I like the 4 categories but it they need weighted differently.
Air and Amplitude 25 now, adjust to 35%
Style/Tricks 25 now, adjust to 10%
Line Difficulty -25 now, adjust to 35%
Fluidity - 25 now, adjust to 20%
Air and amplitude is easy
Style/Tricks - Rampage should be about where you're tricking, not what tricks. Low points for folks only tricking their dirt jumps at the bottom (and yes, Bizet did NOT get robbed in 2017)
Line Difficulty - Should be about the features, size, and steepness of the line, should also be set in stone before they drop in.
Fluidity - Shouldn't compare other riders to one another but more about how they ride their own line. are they charging, or is it noticeable that they being tentative before dropping into a section, obviously separating where they have to go slow, like right before DJ Brandt's chute etc.
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