Generalizing everyone that has ridden an eMTB "E-MTBers act like they the exception to the rules"....is bullshit. As I say in every trail meeting i've been...
Generalizing everyone that has ridden an eMTB "E-MTBers act like they the exception to the rules"....is bullshit. As I say in every trail meeting i've been to when this is brought up, we have always had 'an asshole' problem, it existed before electrics. This problem exists in skate, snow, surf, tennis, golf, etc.....not everyone is a cool law abiding person.
So theres that.
Oh, and your analogy about the bikes being heavier causing more damage-is funny. So-I am 140lbs, am I supposed to call anyone 160lbs and up a 'trail terrorizer'?
Your last comment about EMTBers being rich, not working for their laps, or showing off expensive toys is uncalled for and out of line....I am not rich, I rode an ebike at lunch today for 45 minutes and averaged 164heart rate, so I worked-why not ride my regular bike? because I want to go farther than I usually do in the short time I have to ride AND theres a couple sections-well, many sections that are impossible to ride up because they are too sandy and steep, I also rode it because it's fucking fun.
Since in your own words "I want to go farther than I usually do in the short time I have to ride"; does it not make sense that you impacting the trails more by riding longer distances?
What's most obvious (and lacking being detailed) is this is just a trend in Bicycling which is encroaching upon the sanctuary of the outdoors. Who's to say these powered-bicycles have any place in the vast outdoors? Other than those seeking profit??
They are motorized - a commutable-version of a human powered vehicle. Noone was taking their Moped out to the sand pit when the MX riders would be having a session when a Moped was around. Now that the ramshackled appearance of a Mountain Bike can be had -
Everyone is entitled to something. Everyone gets their nose out of joint because they cannot be a 'have more' inside this society of 'haves'.
Long Term impact? Well let's look at the ol' Tesla:
Battery Powered access to Door Handles. Something occurs where First Responders are called upon and due to some human-error - Emergency Personnel are unable to have anything to grab onto to access vehicle occupants. It's already happened. A fucking Handle is an inconvenience to a small design group.
These glow in the dark powered bicycles will force a Tax, Registration, and Insurance upon any Bicycle Owner. And that's w/o the upcoming stupidity-pill sure to be swallowed by these wastes of resources.
1) I don’t pass people on climbs. I’ll sit for a bit, or go to eco.
2) I don’t climb trails I know I’d never climb on my envirobike.
3) I yield the trail no matter what direction I’m going.
I’ve been vibed on theoretical grounds, but never for something I’ve done on the trail. For the vibers, I have only the blank stare.
It’s interesting that in a sport where imagery of blown up berms is held in high regard, that trail damage from ebikes is a concern. Downhill, you’ll only damage the trail through skill and speed, or brake dragging. The bike doesn’t have much to do with it. On the uphills, my experience is one where the ebike has been easier on the trails surface. With more consistent pace, I don’t slip the rear wheel trying to keep from bogging down. It basically never breaks traction going up.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A moped (/ˈmoʊpɛd/ MOH-ped) is a type of small motorcycle with bicycle pedals, generally having a less stringent licensing requirement than...
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A moped (/ˈmoʊpɛd/ MOH-ped) is a type of small motorcycle with bicycle pedals, generally having a less stringent licensing requirement than full motorcycles or automobiles. Mopeds typically travel only a bit faster than bicycles on public roads, and possess both a motorcycle engine and pedals for propulsion.
Matbe you're unaware the pedals on a moped are just for getting the engine to start and have no effect once the engine is running. The...
Matbe you're unaware the pedals on a moped are just for getting the engine to start and have no effect once the engine is running. The pedals basically become pegs while the engine is running.
Apparently you are unaware of what a definition is.
I wonder what percentage of e mountain bikers are actually hacking their $5 to 10k ebikes and voiding the warranty? Highly doubt it is "the vast...
I wonder what percentage of e mountain bikers are actually hacking their $5 to 10k ebikes and voiding the warranty? Highly doubt it is "the vast majority." Pretty sure Specialized can also detect this through their app.
Also hilarious that in this day and age people would say something like "stop showing ebikes shredding" as though that is a realistic option.
"In fact, statistically, nobody shreds on an MTB (e or otherwise). The majority of riders will never get their wheels off the ground or hit a huge drop or bash through a berm."
OK. On multiple levels this is one of the silliest and most unrealistic statements in this thread. By that logic people should stop showing videos of people shredding regular mtb as well. From ads, to YouTube, to movies... People make content that gets attention and is entertaining, that isn't going to change. The reality is that no matter what the sport, videos showing people shredding and doing things out of the ordinary are entertaining and watched. I mean Is Hollywood going to stop creating movies showing cars driving insane in public streets and sidewalks breaking all the laws? Those things are meant for commuting.
Honestly I think he is trying to say that to put the land managers mind as ease. In other words a small fib to make riders seem safer and get access.
What's most obvious (and lacking being detailed) is this is just a trend in Bicycling which is encroaching upon the sanctuary of the outdoors. Who's to...
What's most obvious (and lacking being detailed) is this is just a trend in Bicycling which is encroaching upon the sanctuary of the outdoors. Who's to say these powered-bicycles have any place in the vast outdoors? Other than those seeking profit??
They are motorized - a commutable-version of a human powered vehicle. Noone was taking their Moped out to the sand pit when the MX riders would be having a session when a Moped was around. Now that the ramshackled appearance of a Mountain Bike can be had -
Everyone is entitled to something. Everyone gets their nose out of joint because they cannot be a 'have more' inside this society of 'haves'.
Long Term impact? Well let's look at the ol' Tesla:
Battery Powered access to Door Handles. Something occurs where First Responders are called upon and due to some human-error - Emergency Personnel are unable to have anything to grab onto to access vehicle occupants. It's already happened. A fucking Handle is an inconvenience to a small design group.
These glow in the dark powered bicycles will force a Tax, Registration, and Insurance upon any Bicycle Owner. And that's w/o the upcoming stupidity-pill sure to be swallowed by these wastes of resources.
Don’t waste money on any type of study.
Facts and data don’t mean anything in today’s world.
This was demonstrated by The US Senate recently.
Carry on fighting each other and giving each other a hard time, it’s human nature.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A moped (/ˈmoʊpɛd/ MOH-ped) is a type of small motorcycle with bicycle pedals, generally having a less stringent licensing requirement than...
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A moped (/ˈmoʊpɛd/ MOH-ped) is a type of small motorcycle with bicycle pedals, generally having a less stringent licensing requirement than full motorcycles or automobiles. Mopeds typically travel only a bit faster than bicycles on public roads, and possess both a motorcycle engine and pedals for propulsion.
Matbe you're unaware the pedals on a moped are just for getting the engine to start and have no effect once the engine is running. The...
Matbe you're unaware the pedals on a moped are just for getting the engine to start and have no effect once the engine is running. The pedals basically become pegs while the engine is running.
Apparently you are unaware of what a definition is.
I take wikipedia with a grain of salt, have you ridden a moped? You don't use the pedals to propel it, there for getting the engine started. Maybe if you run out of gas then you would have to use the pedals to propel it but honestly you will go faster if you push it. lol.
Matbe you're unaware the pedals on a moped are just for getting the engine to start and have no effect once the engine is running. The...
Matbe you're unaware the pedals on a moped are just for getting the engine to start and have no effect once the engine is running. The pedals basically become pegs while the engine is running.
I take wikipedia with a grain of salt, have you ridden a moped? You don't use the pedals to propel it, there for getting the engine...
I take wikipedia with a grain of salt, have you ridden a moped? You don't use the pedals to propel it, there for getting the engine started. Maybe if you run out of gas then you would have to use the pedals to propel it but honestly you will go faster if you push it. lol.
Here’s my take on this thread #1 everybody just needs to get over it, this new breed of motorcycles are here to stay period.
Yes they do more damage to the trails this is a DUH moment, here’s my example, if I can drag my myself back to the top of the trail for 2nd trip or 3rd run(god I wish I was stronger)then I’m impacting the trail my example has me pedaling a eBike on a fire road so even if it was a extra steep fire road and I had tire slippage I’m not impacting the singletrack with the motor of the eBike only using gravity but the extra trips I can now make because of the artificial endurance I now have is where the impact is, and I hear this as being maybe the biggest reason behind the eBike is the added available endurance for the user. Not speed & the safety side of things is idiots going uphill on downhill trail runs.
Cmon, lets evaluate riders whether they have heart assist, artificial joints etc? Pedal assist is not Even close to motorized bikes, while it does help you to pedal further it will not make you better rider or will not give you still balls to shred downhill 49+Mph, to me it is absolutely equal mtb and emtb
Sounds like there are few-to-none dirt bikers/Mtb'ers in the crowd, so as I listen I'm jumping in on this thread.
I understand that most people don't live in areas with motorized trails, but I am blessed to be making a home in beautiful Moab, Utah. Here we are fortunate to have many trails of all varieties, motorized and non-motorized. Our land managers have taken a hard-line approach to non-mechanized/mechanized/motorized categories. No one seems to mention the fact that singletrack is singletrack, and all riders want more singletrack. Places like Crested Butte and Fruita share singletrack between Moto's and MTB's and the result is huge quantities of singletrack. I understand the relationship is stressed, but the eMtb's will allow you to ride farther, on harder trails, which makes it more reasonable to have big, backcountry trails.
When it comes to "governing" the power output of these bikes, I think that is a terrible idea. I truly don't believe that the end result of unregulated power is 450cc output, it will be 100-lb bikes with 150cc-like output, such as the Cake and Sur-ron. I just purchased the Sur-Ron for my non-Moto friends to ride, and if it weighed 200lbs (like the KTM e-Freeride), it would not be suitable for a newbie. These "light electric motorcycles" have more than enough power to keep up on tight singletrack, assuming the trail is reasonable. I think many older dirtbikers are going to give up there giant moto's for a light-electric bike, and that will definitely improve the quality of shared trails.
In the end, I think the best solution is to maintain motorized and Non-motorized spaces, but moving forward not exclude motors from trails that we build. Especially here in Moab, almost every ride starts with a motor, in your car. Building trails that allow off-road users to access the trail systems, and utilize a motor to make that additional mileage feasible for more people. That sounds like win-win.
Watch this video interview with Dave Turner and tell me there's a dividing line between ebikes and motor bikes:
https://youtu.be/RuZuUn5Ci2k
TL/DW: unless you're Nino you can't...
Watch this video interview with Dave Turner and tell me there's a dividing line between ebikes and motor bikes:
TL/DW: unless you're Nino you can't match the output of an electric motor. You'll put about 40W at the top of your lungs, while the lousiest electric assist motor gives you 250W on tap, and you can't tell me that ain't cheating. Wanna share the trails with me? OK, take off the battery and pedal like everyone else.
On top of that, every single sale of an expensive mountain bike subsidizes the prices of the ebikes, bringing them down, up to a point where you'll get the motor and battery as a bonus, at the same price of a regular mountain bike.
It’s not cheating because it’s not a competition right? I put out about 125 Watts on an average steep climb, but I also occasionally have fun on an ebike. Doesn’t feel like cheating at all because I get punished with a 48 lb trail bike on the way down. That’s why I don’t ride ebikes that much. That’s a choice you can make as well, but personally I would rather have options.
It’s not cheating because it’s not a competition right? I put out about 125 Watts on an average steep climb, but I also occasionally have fun...
It’s not cheating because it’s not a competition right? I put out about 125 Watts on an average steep climb, but I also occasionally have fun on an ebike. Doesn’t feel like cheating at all because I get punished with a 48 lb trail bike on the way down. That’s why I don’t ride ebikes that much. That’s a choice you can make as well, but personally I would rather have options.
If climbing has such priority - then build and have fun w/ a fully rigid MTB. If there's no competition to be had, one would have to be pragmatic about what limitations are had between the system of rider-and-bike.
eBikes are a threat to the open outdoors. And, given enough wankers on whatever committee passes the buck, then the demographic will shift into Bike Lanes on Public Roads.
Law 'markers'
would have a feeding frenzy taking away freedoms of non-reliance upon fossil fuels. It's job security, just like these dumb motorscooters are.
Ebikes are pedal assist, Im guessing to the tune of like 99%. All the pedalling is just telling it how fast to go, not actually doing much to propel the thing forward. Human effort is a joke compared to modern battery technology.
the whole pedal assist thing seems like a fantasy to me, and Im not saying ebikers aren't getting a workout, Im just thinking that it's probably unnecessary. Just make cool electric trail motos please, I want to be able to go faster downhill than I do on my pedally bike.
Ebikes are pedal assist, Im guessing to the tune of like 99%. All the pedalling is just telling it how fast to go, not actually doing...
Ebikes are pedal assist, Im guessing to the tune of like 99%. All the pedalling is just telling it how fast to go, not actually doing much to propel the thing forward. Human effort is a joke compared to modern battery technology.
the whole pedal assist thing seems like a fantasy to me, and Im not saying ebikers aren't getting a workout, Im just thinking that it's probably unnecessary. Just make cool electric trail motos please, I want to be able to go faster downhill than I do on my pedally bike.
Those are out there... They are classified as electric motorcycles... KTM makes a pretty cool one...
And if you have ridden an ebike, you would find out you still get a workout... It just doesn't have the same intensity..
Bicycle Retailer had a guest opinion piece (that link will take you to the entire article, not too long if you want the full read)
Theo Jorna is the CEO of Hicle, an organization that puts together bicycle shows, including the E-Bike Challenge in Minnesota. He is very much in favor of e-bikes, in all their various forms. It was interesting to read yet another person call out the USA e-bikes as being over-powered and chide the "shred" image being used to sell bikes.
Here are some excerpts from the article, quotes are in quotation marks and italics:
With regard to the astounding growth in sales of e-bikes in Europe, Jorna states "it is important to signify where this growth is realized. The Dutch government actively encourages the use of e-bikes to get people out of their cars and on bikes, making it a common means of transportation for commuting and errands. The benefits include the improved health of bicyclists, the environment, and less-congested infrastructure."
With respect to e-bikes in the US, he adds, "Allowance of e-bikes on the trails of federal lands seems like a logical step toward enlarging the market and normalizing the use of e-bikes. However, one has to realize which audience the potential growth can come from. The growth of the market in Europe is realized mainly from errands, commuting, and day trips..."
When it comes to the overall growth of e-bikes, Jorna makes the following statement regarding offroad use, "Class 1 e-bikes reach up to 20 mph, which is considerably faster than the average trail-user, therefore future testing with e-bikes on federal trails will likely turn out negatively."
Clearly, just because the bikes can go 20 mph, doesn't mean they always will or that riders can even make a class-1 e-bike go that fast without a descent. This does, however, go back to Joe's original concern for the general power output of class-1 e-bikes on trails.
In a Pandora's Box kind of warning, Jorna goes on to share this anecdote, "In areas with a well-developed infrastructure for bicycle use, like the Netherlands, the use of e-bikes is driving the infrastructure to its limit. The increased use of e-bicycles is starting to overflow Dutch cities. The number of accidents involving bicycles is also rising. This increase is largely due to the increased use of e-bikes. The legislation in Europe allows e-bikes of up to 16 mph. What would have happened in the Netherlands if e-bikes had been going considerably faster?"
Finally, Jorna adds this bit, perhaps as a clue to actually help grow e-bike sales in the US, "Currently, the promotion of e-bikes focuses on this faster image. Photos of powerful e-mountain bikes shredding on trails, leaving a large cloud of dust behind, are prime examples of how the American e-bike market is presenting itself. However, this image is the opposite of what the established market of Europe has become."
I will reiterate, please feel free to read the entire piece, linked above. Jorna's opinions are his own and not necessarily a reflection of my own or of Vital's. Either way, some adult discussion is in order as this new market segment grows.
Bicycle Retailer had a guest [url=https://www.bicycleretailer.com/opinion-analysis/2020/02/19/guest-opinion-20-mph-assist-too-fast-e-bikes#.Xk6V-hNKiL4]opinion piece[/url] (that link will take you to the entire article, not too long if you want the full read)
Theo...
Bicycle Retailer had a guest opinion piece (that link will take you to the entire article, not too long if you want the full read)
Theo Jorna is the CEO of Hicle, an organization that puts together bicycle shows, including the E-Bike Challenge in Minnesota. He is very much in favor of e-bikes, in all their various forms. It was interesting to read yet another person call out the USA e-bikes as being over-powered and chide the "shred" image being used to sell bikes.
Here are some excerpts from the article, quotes are in quotation marks and italics:
With regard to the astounding growth in sales of e-bikes in Europe, Jorna states "it is important to signify where this growth is realized. The Dutch government actively encourages the use of e-bikes to get people out of their cars and on bikes, making it a common means of transportation for commuting and errands. The benefits include the improved health of bicyclists, the environment, and less-congested infrastructure."
With respect to e-bikes in the US, he adds, "Allowance of e-bikes on the trails of federal lands seems like a logical step toward enlarging the market and normalizing the use of e-bikes. However, one has to realize which audience the potential growth can come from. The growth of the market in Europe is realized mainly from errands, commuting, and day trips..."
When it comes to the overall growth of e-bikes, Jorna makes the following statement regarding offroad use, "Class 1 e-bikes reach up to 20 mph, which is considerably faster than the average trail-user, therefore future testing with e-bikes on federal trails will likely turn out negatively."
Clearly, just because the bikes can go 20 mph, doesn't mean they always will or that riders can even make a class-1 e-bike go that fast without a descent. This does, however, go back to Joe's original concern for the general power output of class-1 e-bikes on trails.
In a Pandora's Box kind of warning, Jorna goes on to share this anecdote, "In areas with a well-developed infrastructure for bicycle use, like the Netherlands, the use of e-bikes is driving the infrastructure to its limit. The increased use of e-bicycles is starting to overflow Dutch cities. The number of accidents involving bicycles is also rising. This increase is largely due to the increased use of e-bikes. The legislation in Europe allows e-bikes of up to 16 mph. What would have happened in the Netherlands if e-bikes had been going considerably faster?"
Finally, Jorna adds this bit, perhaps as a clue to actually help grow e-bike sales in the US, "Currently, the promotion of e-bikes focuses on this faster image. Photos of powerful e-mountain bikes shredding on trails, leaving a large cloud of dust behind, are prime examples of how the American e-bike market is presenting itself. However, this image is the opposite of what the established market of Europe has become."
I will reiterate, please feel free to read the entire piece, linked above. Jorna's opinions are his own and not necessarily a reflection of my own or of Vital's. Either way, some adult discussion is in order as this new market segment grows.
I read this BR article this morning, and like you said - Jorna's opinions are his own. But I have to disagree with his point of view, simply because his "speed" argument has flaws.
The 20mph top speed isn't the problem here - it's proper education of use. An e-bike may share 2 wheels, pedals, handlebars, saddles, and riding position with regular bikes, but because of the electric assist system, new e-bike owners should be instructed and advised on how to properly and safely use it. This falls into that general category of ignorance with regards to e-bikes as a whole right now in the U.S.; many people who are against e-bikes have never even ridden one and/or do not really understand how one is properly used.
Case in point: yes, e-bikes can reach 20mph - keyword "reach". You don't push a button or twist a throttle and they go 20mph (that is a motorcycle, not an e-bike); you literally have to pedal the bike fast enough to reach 20mph, so it's not like you aren't aware of what you're trying to do. The article somewhat tries to conjure up images of people out of control going 20mph on all their e-bikes, when in reality this isn't the case.
Along that train of thought - here's a drastic but similar comparison: vehicle speeding and wreckless driving have killed countless people ever since the motor vehicle was invented... but are vehicle manufacturers limiting the top speed of their vehicles as a solution? No, because it is understood that the only people who are allowed behind the wheel of a vehicle went through instruction and schooling (the driver's license). If the vehicle driver decides to pass safe speed limits, they do so at their own choice - it's not the machine making them do it.
Now I'm not saying we need e-bike licenses (before someone asks)... just using the above as an example. But everyone in the industry would benefit from education and understanding exactly how e-bikes work and how to use them - instead of assuming they know how they work and forming ignorant or flawed opinions that ultimately aren't based on real facts.
So back to proper education of use - the bike shops selling e-bikes should ideally teach their customers how to use the e-bikes properly, just like you'd expect them to teach a new bicycle owner how to use the shifters, or the suspension lockouts, or the dropper post. E-bike assist is another feature that people need to learn how to use properly. This might prove difficult for direct-sale (since there is no buyer/seller instruction or direct interaction) but teaching e-bike users how to use their e-bikes is a start.
-------------
The internet likes to come to quick judgement on things that it doesn't understand simply for the point of being able to make a comment. It would be better for all of us as a whole of more people would take the time to actually learn about things and understand how they really work before they make opinions about them =)
If climbing has such priority - then build and have fun w/ a fully rigid MTB. If there's no competition to be had, one would have...
If climbing has such priority - then build and have fun w/ a fully rigid MTB. If there's no competition to be had, one would have to be pragmatic about what limitations are had between the system of rider-and-bike.
eBikes are a threat to the open outdoors. And, given enough wankers on whatever committee passes the buck, then the demographic will shift into Bike Lanes on Public Roads.
Law 'markers'
would have a feeding frenzy taking away freedoms of non-reliance upon fossil fuels. It's job security, just like these dumb motorscooters are.
eMTB's are not any more a threat to the open outdoors than a bunch of humans coming into the forest to cut trails that are for nothing more than luxurious pedaling, coasting, and forbidden shredding. Along this line of thought we should ban MTB's, as they consume resources for outdoor activity that could be replaced with hiking through untouched woods.
They are motorized - a commutable-version of a human powered vehicle. Noone was taking their Moped out to the sand pit when the MX riders would be having a session when a Moped was around. Now that the ramshackled appearance of a Mountain Bike can be had -
Everyone is entitled to something. Everyone gets their nose out of joint because they cannot be a 'have more' inside this society of 'haves'.
Long Term impact? Well let's look at the ol' Tesla:
Battery Powered access to Door Handles. Something occurs where First Responders are called upon and due to some human-error - Emergency Personnel are unable to have anything to grab onto to access vehicle occupants. It's already happened. A fucking Handle is an inconvenience to a small design group.
These glow in the dark powered bicycles will force a Tax, Registration, and Insurance upon any Bicycle Owner. And that's w/o the upcoming stupidity-pill sure to be swallowed by these wastes of resources.
1) I don’t pass people on climbs. I’ll sit for a bit, or go to eco.
2) I don’t climb trails I know I’d never climb on my envirobike.
3) I yield the trail no matter what direction I’m going.
I’ve been vibed on theoretical grounds, but never for something I’ve done on the trail. For the vibers, I have only the blank stare.
It’s interesting that in a sport where imagery of blown up berms is held in high regard, that trail damage from ebikes is a concern. Downhill, you’ll only damage the trail through skill and speed, or brake dragging. The bike doesn’t have much to do with it. On the uphills, my experience is one where the ebike has been easier on the trails surface. With more consistent pace, I don’t slip the rear wheel trying to keep from bogging down. It basically never breaks traction going up.
Facts and data don’t mean anything in today’s world.
This was demonstrated by The US Senate recently.
Carry on fighting each other and giving each other a hard time, it’s human nature.
Here since you're into definitions and felt the need to not include the definition of Ebikes.
A motor is a motor is a motor. Legs are legs are legs.
If I can't climb the hill, I'll: a) go to another trail or b) train harder.
$.02
Yes they do more damage to the trails this is a DUH moment, here’s my example, if I can drag my myself back to the top of the trail for 2nd trip or 3rd run(god I wish I was stronger)then I’m impacting the trail my example has me pedaling a eBike on a fire road so even if it was a extra steep fire road and I had tire slippage I’m not impacting the singletrack with the motor of the eBike only using gravity but the extra trips I can now make because of the artificial endurance I now have is where the impact is, and I hear this as being maybe the biggest reason behind the eBike is the added available endurance for the user. Not speed & the safety side of things is idiots going uphill on downhill trail runs.
I understand that most people don't live in areas with motorized trails, but I am blessed to be making a home in beautiful Moab, Utah. Here we are fortunate to have many trails of all varieties, motorized and non-motorized. Our land managers have taken a hard-line approach to non-mechanized/mechanized/motorized categories. No one seems to mention the fact that singletrack is singletrack, and all riders want more singletrack. Places like Crested Butte and Fruita share singletrack between Moto's and MTB's and the result is huge quantities of singletrack. I understand the relationship is stressed, but the eMtb's will allow you to ride farther, on harder trails, which makes it more reasonable to have big, backcountry trails.
When it comes to "governing" the power output of these bikes, I think that is a terrible idea. I truly don't believe that the end result of unregulated power is 450cc output, it will be 100-lb bikes with 150cc-like output, such as the Cake and Sur-ron. I just purchased the Sur-Ron for my non-Moto friends to ride, and if it weighed 200lbs (like the KTM e-Freeride), it would not be suitable for a newbie. These "light electric motorcycles" have more than enough power to keep up on tight singletrack, assuming the trail is reasonable. I think many older dirtbikers are going to give up there giant moto's for a light-electric bike, and that will definitely improve the quality of shared trails.
In the end, I think the best solution is to maintain motorized and Non-motorized spaces, but moving forward not exclude motors from trails that we build. Especially here in Moab, almost every ride starts with a motor, in your car. Building trails that allow off-road users to access the trail systems, and utilize a motor to make that additional mileage feasible for more people. That sounds like win-win.
eBikes are a threat to the open outdoors. And, given enough wankers on whatever committee passes the buck, then the demographic will shift into Bike Lanes on Public Roads.
Law 'markers'
the whole pedal assist thing seems like a fantasy to me, and Im not saying ebikers aren't getting a workout, Im just thinking that it's probably unnecessary. Just make cool electric trail motos please, I want to be able to go faster downhill than I do on my pedally bike.
And if you have ridden an ebike, you would find out you still get a workout... It just doesn't have the same intensity..
A class 1 ebike, less than 1hp, weights around 50lbs, limited to 20mph, and must be pedalled to make it go...
The interesting spec... The top of the line Santa Cruz Heckler actually has a MSRP that is higher than the KTM...
Theo Jorna is the CEO of Hicle, an organization that puts together bicycle shows, including the E-Bike Challenge in Minnesota. He is very much in favor of e-bikes, in all their various forms. It was interesting to read yet another person call out the USA e-bikes as being over-powered and chide the "shred" image being used to sell bikes.
Here are some excerpts from the article, quotes are in quotation marks and italics:
With regard to the astounding growth in sales of e-bikes in Europe, Jorna states "it is important to signify where this growth is realized. The Dutch government actively encourages the use of e-bikes to get people out of their cars and on bikes, making it a common means of transportation for commuting and errands. The benefits include the improved health of bicyclists, the environment, and less-congested infrastructure."
With respect to e-bikes in the US, he adds, "Allowance of e-bikes on the trails of federal lands seems like a logical step toward enlarging the market and normalizing the use of e-bikes. However, one has to realize which audience the potential growth can come from. The growth of the market in Europe is realized mainly from errands, commuting, and day trips..."
When it comes to the overall growth of e-bikes, Jorna makes the following statement regarding offroad use, "Class 1 e-bikes reach up to 20 mph, which is considerably faster than the average trail-user, therefore future testing with e-bikes on federal trails will likely turn out negatively."
Clearly, just because the bikes can go 20 mph, doesn't mean they always will or that riders can even make a class-1 e-bike go that fast without a descent. This does, however, go back to Joe's original concern for the general power output of class-1 e-bikes on trails.
In a Pandora's Box kind of warning, Jorna goes on to share this anecdote, "In areas with a well-developed infrastructure for bicycle use, like the Netherlands, the use of e-bikes is driving the infrastructure to its limit. The increased use of e-bicycles is starting to overflow Dutch cities. The number of accidents involving bicycles is also rising. This increase is largely due to the increased use of e-bikes. The legislation in Europe allows e-bikes of up to 16 mph. What would have happened in the Netherlands if e-bikes had been going considerably faster?"
Finally, Jorna adds this bit, perhaps as a clue to actually help grow e-bike sales in the US, "Currently, the promotion of e-bikes focuses on this faster image. Photos of powerful e-mountain bikes shredding on trails, leaving a large cloud of dust behind, are prime examples of how the American e-bike market is presenting itself. However, this image is the opposite of what the established market of Europe has become."
I will reiterate, please feel free to read the entire piece, linked above. Jorna's opinions are his own and not necessarily a reflection of my own or of Vital's. Either way, some adult discussion is in order as this new market segment grows.
The 20mph top speed isn't the problem here - it's proper education of use. An e-bike may share 2 wheels, pedals, handlebars, saddles, and riding position with regular bikes, but because of the electric assist system, new e-bike owners should be instructed and advised on how to properly and safely use it. This falls into that general category of ignorance with regards to e-bikes as a whole right now in the U.S.; many people who are against e-bikes have never even ridden one and/or do not really understand how one is properly used.
Case in point: yes, e-bikes can reach 20mph - keyword "reach". You don't push a button or twist a throttle and they go 20mph (that is a motorcycle, not an e-bike); you literally have to pedal the bike fast enough to reach 20mph, so it's not like you aren't aware of what you're trying to do. The article somewhat tries to conjure up images of people out of control going 20mph on all their e-bikes, when in reality this isn't the case.
Along that train of thought - here's a drastic but similar comparison: vehicle speeding and wreckless driving have killed countless people ever since the motor vehicle was invented... but are vehicle manufacturers limiting the top speed of their vehicles as a solution? No, because it is understood that the only people who are allowed behind the wheel of a vehicle went through instruction and schooling (the driver's license). If the vehicle driver decides to pass safe speed limits, they do so at their own choice - it's not the machine making them do it.
Now I'm not saying we need e-bike licenses (before someone asks)... just using the above as an example. But everyone in the industry would benefit from education and understanding exactly how e-bikes work and how to use them - instead of assuming they know how they work and forming ignorant or flawed opinions that ultimately aren't based on real facts.
So back to proper education of use - the bike shops selling e-bikes should ideally teach their customers how to use the e-bikes properly, just like you'd expect them to teach a new bicycle owner how to use the shifters, or the suspension lockouts, or the dropper post. E-bike assist is another feature that people need to learn how to use properly. This might prove difficult for direct-sale (since there is no buyer/seller instruction or direct interaction) but teaching e-bike users how to use their e-bikes is a start.
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The internet likes to come to quick judgement on things that it doesn't understand simply for the point of being able to make a comment. It would be better for all of us as a whole of more people would take the time to actually learn about things and understand how they really work before they make opinions about them =)
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