One of the millions of companies selling billet pedals and stems should start selling spacers for 29er forks that optimize geo for 27.5 front wheels. I've...
One of the millions of companies selling billet pedals and stems should start selling spacers for 29er forks that optimize geo for 27.5 front wheels. I've heard of many pro riders using these, but I'm not aware of any company currently selling them.
A standardized (blasphemy!) oval'ish headset standard would be awesome that give +-10mm reach/lots of angle adjust
As if bikes aren't expensive enough already, with those pesky round interference holes in place. Sounds like a good idea but I suppose it would be very dificult to implement, because of distortion/alignement issues. We can't afford the quality needed for that, with bikes costing 10k already, as shitly made as most of them are.
As if bikes aren't expensive enough already, with those pesky round interference holes in place. Sounds like a good idea but I suppose it would be...
As if bikes aren't expensive enough already, with those pesky round interference holes in place. Sounds like a good idea but I suppose it would be very dificult to implement, because of distortion/alignement issues. We can't afford the quality needed for that, with bikes costing 10k already, as shitly made as most of them are.
Canyon has a neat solution for reach adjustment on the Sender/ Strive. To sets of headset "cups" so the reach is 0 or + - 5mm. It would also be easier to make angle sets etc.
As if bikes aren't expensive enough already, with those pesky round interference holes in place. Sounds like a good idea but I suppose it would be...
As if bikes aren't expensive enough already, with those pesky round interference holes in place. Sounds like a good idea but I suppose it would be very dificult to implement, because of distortion/alignement issues. We can't afford the quality needed for that, with bikes costing 10k already, as shitly made as most of them are.
Canyon has a neat solution for reach adjustment on the Sender/ Strive. To sets of headset "cups" so the reach is 0 or + - 5mm...
Canyon has a neat solution for reach adjustment on the Sender/ Strive. To sets of headset "cups" so the reach is 0 or + - 5mm. It would also be easier to make angle sets etc.
Guerilla gravity had some as well. And there is the Specialized Stumpy Evo / Levo etc one for angle adjustment, and Trek has something similar I think.
One of the millions of companies selling billet pedals and stems should start selling spacers for 29er forks that optimize geo for 27.5 front wheels. I've...
One of the millions of companies selling billet pedals and stems should start selling spacers for 29er forks that optimize geo for 27.5 front wheels. I've heard of many pro riders using these, but I'm not aware of any company currently selling them.
These work fine. I use them for making A2C longer or compensating for smaller wheel diameter when fiddling with 27.5 wheels in MX or full 29 setups. They are a super tight fit though, and I am not sure if they can ever be removed after installed and fully seated.
One of the millions of companies selling billet pedals and stems should start selling spacers for 29er forks that optimize geo for 27.5 front wheels. I've...
One of the millions of companies selling billet pedals and stems should start selling spacers for 29er forks that optimize geo for 27.5 front wheels. I've heard of many pro riders using these, but I'm not aware of any company currently selling them.
Guerilla gravity had some as well. And there is the Specialized Stumpy Evo / Levo etc one for angle adjustment, and Trek has something similar I think.
the GG ones were a little different - since the frames had built in reach adjust - which means they are only compatible with the GG revved frames. it was an extra widget that went into the frame/headtube, and the headset bearing went into that.
One of the millions of companies selling billet pedals and stems should start selling spacers for 29er forks that optimize geo for 27.5 front wheels. I've...
One of the millions of companies selling billet pedals and stems should start selling spacers for 29er forks that optimize geo for 27.5 front wheels. I've heard of many pro riders using these, but I'm not aware of any company currently selling them.
Any Rocky mountain dealer should have dozens of lower cups that came with every instinct to allow them to be converted to pipelines for the 2017-2020 generation.
Cane creek also makes an extended crown race but its like 6mm.
Guerilla gravity had some as well. And there is the Specialized Stumpy Evo / Levo etc one for angle adjustment, and Trek has something similar I think.
the GG ones were a little different - since the frames had built in reach adjust - which means they are only compatible with the GG...
the GG ones were a little different - since the frames had built in reach adjust - which means they are only compatible with the GG revved frames. it was an extra widget that went into the frame/headtube, and the headset bearing went into that.
Yes, all the current ones are like that, only compatible with the frame they are made for. A standardized size that does this would be nice. In a way, all headsets except IS has "an extra widget that went into the frame/headtube"
Chiming in to the running smaller wheels and correcting geo: I've used a Cane Creek Angleset to make a full 29er with no flip chip mullet. The lower cup is 10mm and with it in the +1 steepening position paired with a 10mm longer fork it gets the BB back close to stock. I did this on an ebike and didn't bang the motor up more than usual.
Headset routing is the devil to most people because of maintenance, but giving up these adjustment options, reach and head angle are why it's the devil to me.
A standardized (blasphemy!) oval'ish headset standard would be awesome that give +-10mm reach/lots of angle adjust
I do happen to know that a well-known component manufacturer proposed exactly this concept of a standardized oval geo-adjust headset to multiple big bike brands a couple of years ago - and they were laughed out of every office.
One of the millions of companies selling billet pedals and stems should start selling spacers for 29er forks that optimize geo for 27.5 front wheels. I've...
One of the millions of companies selling billet pedals and stems should start selling spacers for 29er forks that optimize geo for 27.5 front wheels. I've heard of many pro riders using these, but I'm not aware of any company currently selling them.
I'm running one on a 160 Status with a 29er fork. So far, so good. Going from a 29 to 27.5 front likely provided a bigger feel difference than any mm or two difference in front end height did.
Here;s a +15mm one that I use in place of a lock block that was preventing down tube contact. This plus the +10mm from a higher travel fork and I got 1 degree more needed headangle
One of the millions of companies selling billet pedals and stems should start selling spacers for 29er forks that optimize geo for 27.5 front wheels. I've...
One of the millions of companies selling billet pedals and stems should start selling spacers for 29er forks that optimize geo for 27.5 front wheels. I've heard of many pro riders using these, but I'm not aware of any company currently selling them.
I don't know if you can get them aftermarket, but Rocky Mountain sold the 2019 (?) Pipeline/Instinct with a ~10mm crown spacer so you could switch...
I don't know if you can get them aftermarket, but Rocky Mountain sold the 2019 (?) Pipeline/Instinct with a ~10mm crown spacer so you could switch front wheels and get the same geo. It sat under the crown race I think. I feel like it would be relatively easy to make one, but I am no engineer.
That was actually a ZS and EC cup set that you would swap out, pretty easy to do with a new lower cup if you can...
That was actually a ZS and EC cup set that you would swap out, pretty easy to do with a new lower cup if you can get the right ones. But that was also for a 29/27.5+ wheel mix which are close to the same size, so you might need a bit more to get something from it.
You are correct! As soon as I read your post the memory flashed back into my head.
A standardized (blasphemy!) oval'ish headset standard would be awesome that give +-10mm reach/lots of angle adjust
FSA has a system called the RAS. not a full +/- 10mm (20mm overall) but about +/-5mm. Being shopped to companies right now with an open design so that it can become a standard. Discussions on angle as well (though gets into a MULTITUDE of cup options if you combo it all). We are trying... just need bike companies to buy in. But the designs are out there and being shopped.
What are you talking about? The zero stack 56 headset all allows for the largest room of any headset that’s available. You should be able to...
What are you talking about? The zero stack 56 headset all allows for the largest room of any headset that’s available. You should be able to do 8 mm front and back with a straight. Fork and five mill front and back with a standard tapered fork The only thing that offers more is that stupid ZS66 that a few companies use for E bikes for some reason.
Who makes a tapered steerer compatible reach adjust ZS56/56? Work components only offers a ZS56 top, EC56 bottom for 1.125x1.5 tapered. They have reach adjusts for...
Who makes a tapered steerer compatible reach adjust ZS56/56? Work components only offers a ZS56 top, EC56 bottom for 1.125x1.5 tapered. They have reach adjusts for ZS56/66 and a ZS56/56 for 1.125 steerers.
You cannot adjust the lower bearing position fore-aft in a tapered 1.5, ZS56 cup. There is 0 room for that. You can adjust the reach by a...
You cannot adjust the lower bearing position fore-aft in a tapered 1.5, ZS56 cup. There is 0 room for that.
You can adjust the reach by a total of 10mm in a ZS66 cup.
Working for FSA I can 100% confirm that there is NO room in a ZS 56 HT to run a reach adjust for tapered. some for straight. The bigger issue for most users is getting the cups in straight (yes this really is an end user/shop issue that has to be heavily considered having dealt with other systems).
The better option is the RAS reach adjust. Luckily MTB companies I think want to go away from internal routing, so more open to this option. We are trying....
Some kind of guiding for it in the system would probably aleviate alignment issues. Maybe a groove in the headtube and a pin in the headset cup to be guided into the groove or something along those lines (if you want to keep an easy to make round headtube).
Said grooves and/or pins could be executed by the use of standard steel pins pressed into a correctly placed hole on either the frame or the headset cup.
Some kind of guiding for it in the system would probably aleviate alignment issues. Maybe a groove in the headtube and a pin in the headset...
Some kind of guiding for it in the system would probably aleviate alignment issues. Maybe a groove in the headtube and a pin in the headset cup to be guided into the groove or something along those lines (if you want to keep an easy to make round headtube).
Said grooves and/or pins could be executed by the use of standard steel pins pressed into a correctly placed hole on either the frame or the headset cup.
oh agreed there are "simple" ways to fix this... then getting then standardized, and correct tolerances around the industry is a different matter... as an industry we can't get a round hole done right... now add a precise pin location to that.....
Yeah I know... Someone somewhere (thoughts on forks thread maybe?) just recently commented that pressfit BBs are, theoretically, the most logical thing to do, but given how hard it seems for the industry to make two concentric holes it was an utter failure. And it's 100 % true.
There needs to be an SBE (Society of Bicycle Engineers, bike equivalent of automotive counterpart SAE) that would define the standards to all things important - interfaces, dimensions, load ratings and tests, etc.
Yeah I know... Someone somewhere (thoughts on forks thread maybe?) just recently commented that pressfit BBs are, theoretically, the most logical thing to do, but given...
Yeah I know... Someone somewhere (thoughts on forks thread maybe?) just recently commented that pressfit BBs are, theoretically, the most logical thing to do, but given how hard it seems for the industry to make two concentric holes it was an utter failure. And it's 100 % true.
There needs to be an SBE (Society of Bicycle Engineers, bike equivalent of automotive counterpart SAE) that would define the standards to all things important - interfaces, dimensions, load ratings and tests, etc.
oh the tolerances are there... it's just holding to them.
BB30: 40.96-40.985mm
PF30 (and all equivalents) 45.95-46
HT I have as well. only one that isnt consistently called out is BB86 (I am sure Shimano has the frame tolerance but never seen it posted). Its more as has been discussed ad nauseum.... the cost to hold those tolerances would make frames even more expensive than they already are....
Just going to leave this here...Rocky Mountain Bicycles is using the FSA system on the carbon Altitude and Instincts, and our own designed (FSA made) ZS56|66 round headsets for the alloy models. 10mm of reach adjust possible. The headset guts are just standard components: bearings, races, top caps, etc.
Who makes a tapered steerer compatible reach adjust ZS56/56? Work components only offers a ZS56 top, EC56 bottom for 1.125x1.5 tapered. They have reach adjusts for...
Who makes a tapered steerer compatible reach adjust ZS56/56? Work components only offers a ZS56 top, EC56 bottom for 1.125x1.5 tapered. They have reach adjusts for ZS56/66 and a ZS56/56 for 1.125 steerers.
Working for FSA I can 100% confirm that there is NO room in a ZS 56 HT to run a reach adjust for tapered. some for...
Working for FSA I can 100% confirm that there is NO room in a ZS 56 HT to run a reach adjust for tapered. some for straight. The bigger issue for most users is getting the cups in straight (yes this really is an end user/shop issue that has to be heavily considered having dealt with other systems).
The better option is the RAS reach adjust. Luckily MTB companies I think want to go away from internal routing, so more open to this option. We are trying....
Maybe focus on making headsets that are not made of Swiss cheese with 30,000 different bearing options
Working for FSA I can 100% confirm that there is NO room in a ZS 56 HT to run a reach adjust for tapered. some for...
Working for FSA I can 100% confirm that there is NO room in a ZS 56 HT to run a reach adjust for tapered. some for straight. The bigger issue for most users is getting the cups in straight (yes this really is an end user/shop issue that has to be heavily considered having dealt with other systems).
The better option is the RAS reach adjust. Luckily MTB companies I think want to go away from internal routing, so more open to this option. We are trying....
Working for FSA I can 100% confirm that there is NO room in a ZS 56 HT to run a reach adjust for tapered. some for...
Working for FSA I can 100% confirm that there is NO room in a ZS 56 HT to run a reach adjust for tapered. some for straight. The bigger issue for most users is getting the cups in straight (yes this really is an end user/shop issue that has to be heavily considered having dealt with other systems).
The better option is the RAS reach adjust. Luckily MTB companies I think want to go away from internal routing, so more open to this option. We are trying....
>Bike manufacturers spec 30,000 different headset combinations on frames over the last four decades
>FSA makes something compatible
How dare they!
Havnt owned any mtb that hope doesn’t make a headset for and they make 2 bearings. Not sure why FSA needs to have so many. Make finding replacements impossible.
Havnt owned any mtb that hope doesn’t make a headset for and they make 2 bearings. Not sure why FSA needs to have so many. Make...
Havnt owned any mtb that hope doesn’t make a headset for and they make 2 bearings. Not sure why FSA needs to have so many. Make finding replacements impossible.
We make them because the bike companies request them. and actually when you start digging into it, we dopnt make a ton of bearings, just combos with bearings for different uses. and we usually have decent stock for our HS. feel free to reach out to us directly and we can usually sort a bearing that works (many are cross compatible). If you have more questions directly related to a HS feel free to DM me.
To keep the ground to headset distance the same, to keep the geometry of the bike the same.
A 29 fork is taller, but so is the axle compared to the ground. Putting a 27" wheel in a 29er fork will still drop the front end.
A standardized (blasphemy!) oval'ish headset standard would be awesome that give +-10mm reach/lots of angle adjust
As if bikes aren't expensive enough already, with those pesky round interference holes in place. Sounds like a good idea but I suppose it would be very dificult to implement, because of distortion/alignement issues. We can't afford the quality needed for that, with bikes costing 10k already, as shitly made as most of them are.
Canyon has a neat solution for reach adjustment on the Sender/ Strive. To sets of headset "cups" so the reach is 0 or + - 5mm. It would also be easier to make angle sets etc.
Watch the video about reach adjustments here:
https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/customer-service/mountain/sender/#video=adjust-reach-sender-cfr-2023
I stand corrected😉
https://ridegg.com/pages/geoadjust-headset-tuning
Guerilla gravity had some as well. And there is the Specialized Stumpy Evo / Levo etc one for angle adjustment, and Trek has something similar I think.
Swedish squish for your dirt jumper: https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/ohlins-launches-rxfdj-m-1-dirt-jump-fork
FTFY: https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/ohlins-launches-rxfdj-m-1-d…
These work fine. I use them for making A2C longer or compensating for smaller wheel diameter when fiddling with 27.5 wheels in MX or full 29 setups. They are a super tight fit though, and I am not sure if they can ever be removed after installed and fully seated.
cane creek still offers a +3mm and +6mm crown race.
someone else use to make a 10mm, but my google-fu is failing me. i'll try again after more coffee.
the GG ones were a little different - since the frames had built in reach adjust - which means they are only compatible with the GG revved frames. it was an extra widget that went into the frame/headtube, and the headset bearing went into that.
Any Rocky mountain dealer should have dozens of lower cups that came with every instinct to allow them to be converted to pipelines for the 2017-2020 generation.
Cane creek also makes an extended crown race but its like 6mm.
Yes, all the current ones are like that, only compatible with the frame they are made for. A standardized size that does this would be nice. In a way, all headsets except IS has "an extra widget that went into the frame/headtube"
Chiming in to the running smaller wheels and correcting geo: I've used a Cane Creek Angleset to make a full 29er with no flip chip mullet. The lower cup is 10mm and with it in the +1 steepening position paired with a 10mm longer fork it gets the BB back close to stock. I did this on an ebike and didn't bang the motor up more than usual.
Headset routing is the devil to most people because of maintenance, but giving up these adjustment options, reach and head angle are why it's the devil to me.
New CRAFTY
I do happen to know that a well-known component manufacturer proposed exactly this concept of a standardized oval geo-adjust headset to multiple big bike brands a couple of years ago - and they were laughed out of every office.
Depending on your set up, they exist: HS Extension – Production Privée
I'm running one on a 160 Status with a 29er fork. So far, so good. Going from a 29 to 27.5 front likely provided a bigger feel difference than any mm or two difference in front end height did.
Here;s a +15mm one that I use in place of a lock block that was preventing down tube contact. This plus the +10mm from a higher travel fork and I got 1 degree more needed headangle
https://www.ninerbikes.com/niner-headset-zs-lower-cup/
You are correct! As soon as I read your post the memory flashed back into my head.
FSA has a system called the RAS. not a full +/- 10mm (20mm overall) but about +/-5mm. Being shopped to companies right now with an open design so that it can become a standard. Discussions on angle as well (though gets into a MULTITUDE of cup options if you combo it all). We are trying... just need bike companies to buy in. But the designs are out there and being shopped.
Working for FSA I can 100% confirm that there is NO room in a ZS 56 HT to run a reach adjust for tapered. some for straight. The bigger issue for most users is getting the cups in straight (yes this really is an end user/shop issue that has to be heavily considered having dealt with other systems).
The better option is the RAS reach adjust. Luckily MTB companies I think want to go away from internal routing, so more open to this option. We are trying....
Some kind of guiding for it in the system would probably aleviate alignment issues. Maybe a groove in the headtube and a pin in the headset cup to be guided into the groove or something along those lines (if you want to keep an easy to make round headtube).
Said grooves and/or pins could be executed by the use of standard steel pins pressed into a correctly placed hole on either the frame or the headset cup.
oh agreed there are "simple" ways to fix this... then getting then standardized, and correct tolerances around the industry is a different matter... as an industry we can't get a round hole done right... now add a precise pin location to that.....
Yeah I know... Someone somewhere (thoughts on forks thread maybe?) just recently commented that pressfit BBs are, theoretically, the most logical thing to do, but given how hard it seems for the industry to make two concentric holes it was an utter failure. And it's 100 % true.
There needs to be an SBE (Society of Bicycle Engineers, bike equivalent of automotive counterpart SAE) that would define the standards to all things important - interfaces, dimensions, load ratings and tests, etc.
oh the tolerances are there... it's just holding to them.
BB30: 40.96-40.985mm
PF30 (and all equivalents) 45.95-46
HT I have as well. only one that isnt consistently called out is BB86 (I am sure Shimano has the frame tolerance but never seen it posted). Its more as has been discussed ad nauseum.... the cost to hold those tolerances would make frames even more expensive than they already are....
Just going to leave this here...Rocky Mountain Bicycles is using the FSA system on the carbon Altitude and Instincts, and our own designed (FSA made) ZS56|66 round headsets for the alloy models. 10mm of reach adjust possible. The headset guts are just standard components: bearings, races, top caps, etc.
Maybe focus on making headsets that are not made of Swiss cheese with 30,000 different bearing options
>Bike manufacturers spec 30,000 different headset combinations on frames over the last four decades
>FSA makes something compatible
How dare they!
Havnt owned any mtb that hope doesn’t make a headset for and they make 2 bearings. Not sure why FSA needs to have so many. Make finding replacements impossible.
We make them because the bike companies request them. and actually when you start digging into it, we dopnt make a ton of bearings, just combos with bearings for different uses. and we usually have decent stock for our HS. feel free to reach out to us directly and we can usually sort a bearing that works (many are cross compatible). If you have more questions directly related to a HS feel free to DM me.
Post a reply to: MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation