Jeff working on that mystery enduro bike from trophy of nations last year?🤔 [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2020/07/22/9760/s1200_7EDE9EF3_3182_477D_9D08_17AD78D8B570.jpg[/img]
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2020/07/22/9761/s1200_B9294AA2_A288_4DC4_A52B_2CFD3AB7377D.jpg[/img]
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2020/07/22/9762/s1200_A05E40E4_D6B8_4A07_9157_0DEA8B791457.jpg[/img]
Jeff working on that mystery enduro bike from trophy of nations last year?🤔
User @Tonkatruck from Pinkbike posted two photos of a prototype Norco dh bike. Blenki hinted at a new bike earlier this year. It looks Devinci-esque but the rear triangle seems solid to me.
User @Tonkatruck from Pinkbike posted two photos of a prototype Norco dh bike. Blenki hinted at a new bike earlier this year. It looks Devinci-esque but...
User @Tonkatruck from Pinkbike posted two photos of a prototype Norco dh bike. Blenki hinted at a new bike earlier this year. It looks Devinci-esque but the rear triangle seems solid to me.
Yeah that whole pull linkage for the Aurum HSP was weird for me. This certainly is a cleaner, albeit a bit more boring looking design, but probably a lot easier to tweak the linkages for leverage rates etc.
If indeed there is a pivot between seatstays and chainstays, then it's a straight up Wilson, given the brake would be attached to the chainstay. I'd be bummed if they discontinued the Aurusm hsp, it looks amazing to me.
If indeed there is a pivot between seatstays and chainstays, then it's a straight up Wilson, given the brake would be attached to the chainstay. I'd...
If indeed there is a pivot between seatstays and chainstays, then it's a straight up Wilson, given the brake would be attached to the chainstay. I'd be bummed if they discontinued the Aurusm hsp, it looks amazing to me.
I suspect there is no pivot by the wheel to keep it a high pivot and they must be using flex in the carbon stays for it to work? haven't seen it in a DH bike but most of the XC bikes are doing it now...
Okay, given the layout, it actually can't have a brace, that was a brainfart from me. There looks to be no pivot in the rear, so looks like it's a flex swingarm, ala XC bikes that are popular lately.
As for there being a pivot by the axle and 'not being a high pivot', em... what? The axle path and the position of the IC define it as a high pivot since it has those characteristics. And requires an idler to not have deathly pedal kickback (and to have a decently LOW antisquat value). The Wilson is in fact a relatively high pivot bike in current form, but without an idler. And in that case it's still a split pivot, since the brake is attached to the chainstay. Which in the case of the wilson is the floating link, unlike most single pivot bikes (it is still a single pivot bike kinematics wise, like all split pivots and ABPs).
You could even make a high pivot (effectively) out of the old Lapierre dual short link (X-control) layout by throwing the links around in a correct manner. You just need a fully rearward axle path and you're there. Yeah, 'high pivot', but for all intents and purposes given how it would ride, it would fit the criteria.
Okay, given the layout, it actually can't have a brace, that was a brainfart from me. There looks to be no pivot in the rear, so...
Okay, given the layout, it actually can't have a brace, that was a brainfart from me. There looks to be no pivot in the rear, so looks like it's a flex swingarm, ala XC bikes that are popular lately.
As for there being a pivot by the axle and 'not being a high pivot', em... what? The axle path and the position of the IC define it as a high pivot since it has those characteristics. And requires an idler to not have deathly pedal kickback (and to have a decently LOW antisquat value). The Wilson is in fact a relatively high pivot bike in current form, but without an idler. And in that case it's still a split pivot, since the brake is attached to the chainstay. Which in the case of the wilson is the floating link, unlike most single pivot bikes (it is still a single pivot bike kinematics wise, like all split pivots and ABPs).
You could even make a high pivot (effectively) out of the old Lapierre dual short link (X-control) layout by throwing the links around in a correct manner. You just need a fully rearward axle path and you're there. Yeah, 'high pivot', but for all intents and purposes given how it would ride, it would fit the criteria.
You are indeed correct, the old Canfield jedi was a dual link with high pivot characteristics as well, so as you state, it is not just the traditional old single pivot type design (Evil or Commencal Supreme) that dictates a high pivot location.
I'm not sure it' a flex-based design. The rear triangle would need to flex a lot in order to move the linkage. We shall weight for an occial "unoffical spy shot". If they went for a solid rear, then their choices would have bern pretty much leverage ratio and axle path driven ( exept flex and other frame carachteristic), given the braking behaviour will be similar to the old bike.
Damn I missed geeking out on tech 😂
You are indeed correct, the old Canfield jedi was a dual link with high pivot characteristics as well, so as you state, it is not just...
You are indeed correct, the old Canfield jedi was a dual link with high pivot characteristics as well, so as you state, it is not just the traditional old single pivot type design (Evil or Commencal Supreme) that dictates a high pivot location.
But granted, the high single piot layout is by far the most obvious and very widely used. Though I'm surprised people don't find a problem with brake squat with it, or is brake squat actually at such a level where it's desirable (with the Supreme, Druid & co.)?
I'm not sure it' a flex-based design. The rear triangle would need to flex a lot in order to move the linkage. We shall weight for...
I'm not sure it' a flex-based design. The rear triangle would need to flex a lot in order to move the linkage. We shall weight for an occial "unoffical spy shot". If they went for a solid rear, then their choices would have bern pretty much leverage ratio and axle path driven ( exept flex and other frame carachteristic), given the braking behaviour will be similar to the old bike.
Damn I missed geeking out on tech 😂
Axle path should actually be quite similar.
But, yeah, leverage ratio through the stroke can get quite a bit different here, but the main kicker, IMO, is the frame construction. The current HSP is touted as 'revolutionary' because it went straight to carbon. Because Al couldn't be used to make the high stressed swingarm. Which, to me, is just bad design. Why would you intentionally design it with high stresses? The Druid has no such problems (designed by the same guy/team as the Aurum HSP). And as long as you don't go full Horst link (with a seat stay pivot, just to confuse people not as well versed in technicalities :D), you'll have similar braking performance anway. Therefore my above comment regarding brake squat levels. Are they actually something you want given these designs?
User @Tonkatruck from Pinkbike posted two photos of a prototype Norco dh bike. Blenki hinted at a new bike earlier this year. It looks Devinci-esque but...
User @Tonkatruck from Pinkbike posted two photos of a prototype Norco dh bike. Blenki hinted at a new bike earlier this year. It looks Devinci-esque but the rear triangle seems solid to me.
Am I seeing things or are those water bottle mounting bolts? On a Dh rig? Maybe this is a freeridey kind of deal? Or maybe Mirco is just trying to flex on all the brands that haven’t managed to fit a bottle mount on their enduro bikes?
There were a couple prototype Long Travel Salsa 29ers at the Blue Mountain ESC race this past weekend. Looked kind of like a cannondale prototype mixed with a Trek slash rear end. Had split pivot with a down tube mounted shock. The linkage from what I saw looked a lot like the mullet bike from specialized, or the older stump jumper and enduro.
It's actually very similar to the Wilson as well. The difference is in the axle paths since the Antidote is a horst link, not a single pivot kinematics wise. Braking wise it's almost identical.
Regarding the Norco, it's debatable. Debatable as in depends on where the swing arm flexes (if it does indeed flex only). If the seat stay flex, it's this. If the chainstays flex, it's a linkage driven single pivot. It's probably somewhere in between.
The thing is that with a flexing suspension layout you can't really define it kinematics wise, you have to do an analysis of the structure with it being elastic to determine all the paths and angles of rotation. The rotation of the brake mount piece will determine how close to a single pivot or a four bar it is and, most importantly, what the 'effective' linkage for it would be like in order to calculate all the kinematics.
I still think there is a pivot there. But, if it has flex-stays then the "flex point" would have to be on the chainstays i think. Otherwise the rear end would be fexy
Given the shape and thickness of both, with the chainstays bending right at the dropout piece (adds strength) and the seatstays being relatively thin towards the dropout, I think the seststays right before the dropout are the point of highest deformation.
Someone in the PB comment section suggested the presence of a short link between the rocker link and the chainstays. Something like this:
Hovever i still cannot see a brace in the rear triangle
Flow geek? I'm part of that thread and have already been downvoted to oblivion. Don't see that as an option really, makes no sense without a brace between the seatstays and chainstays.
As for there being a pivot by the axle and 'not being a high pivot', em... what? The axle path and the position of the IC define it as a high pivot since it has those characteristics. And requires an idler to not have deathly pedal kickback (and to have a decently LOW antisquat value). The Wilson is in fact a relatively high pivot bike in current form, but without an idler. And in that case it's still a split pivot, since the brake is attached to the chainstay. Which in the case of the wilson is the floating link, unlike most single pivot bikes (it is still a single pivot bike kinematics wise, like all split pivots and ABPs).
You could even make a high pivot (effectively) out of the old Lapierre dual short link (X-control) layout by throwing the links around in a correct manner. You just need a fully rearward axle path and you're there. Yeah, 'high pivot', but for all intents and purposes given how it would ride, it would fit the criteria.
Damn I missed geeking out on tech 😂
But, yeah, leverage ratio through the stroke can get quite a bit different here, but the main kicker, IMO, is the frame construction. The current HSP is touted as 'revolutionary' because it went straight to carbon. Because Al couldn't be used to make the high stressed swingarm. Which, to me, is just bad design. Why would you intentionally design it with high stresses? The Druid has no such problems (designed by the same guy/team as the Aurum HSP). And as long as you don't go full Horst link (with a seat stay pivot, just to confuse people not as well versed in technicalities :D), you'll have similar braking performance anway. Therefore my above comment regarding brake squat levels. Are they actually something you want given these designs?
Regarding the Norco, it's debatable. Debatable as in depends on where the swing arm flexes (if it does indeed flex only). If the seat stay flex, it's this. If the chainstays flex, it's a linkage driven single pivot. It's probably somewhere in between.
The thing is that with a flexing suspension layout you can't really define it kinematics wise, you have to do an analysis of the structure with it being elastic to determine all the paths and angles of rotation. The rotation of the brake mount piece will determine how close to a single pivot or a four bar it is and, most importantly, what the 'effective' linkage for it would be like in order to calculate all the kinematics.
Honestly, I can't see it. Can't wait for a better picture.
Will someone pay me to spend summers in Whistler taking photos of weird bikes?
Hovever i still cannot see a brace in the rear triangle
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