MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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nskerb
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3/25/2022 11:55am
That new Strive looks weird. For whatever reason something about it looks out of porportion. Maybe I'm just wasted.

For that (supposed) Megatower, SC is doing a really good job at making their normal bikes look like E-bikes lol.
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3/25/2022 12:18pm
sspomer wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/03/25/12269/s1200_Screen_Shot_2022_03_25_at_8.42.55_AM.jpg[/img] saw this in [url=https://www.vitalmtb.com/videos/features/Lourdes-World-Cup-Downhill-Bike-Tech,39853/sspomer,2]our pit bits video[/url] - is this for a DH/saint microspline cassette? i'm not super familiar w/ the full run of shimano...


saw this in our pit bits video - is this for a DH/saint microspline cassette? i'm not super familiar w/ the full run of shimano stuff, but syndicate rear wheel w/ microspline chris king hub. do they make compact microspline cassettes that a DHer would use?
My guess the stuff Greg is riding is microspline cassette for dh
Would seem silly to ride Shimano and not get the benefits of changing under load with the new chain and cassette. I mean they ran the new XTR brakes and stuff so it seems logical they would use parts of the new drivetrain…. Although I suspect the new Saint will include it anyways
3/25/2022 12:19pm
baronKanon wrote:
Actually, the Shapeshifter isn't that useless. I used it a LOT on my first gen Strive. Short travel/high for climbing and flat, and long travel/low for...
Actually, the Shapeshifter isn't that useless. I used it a LOT on my first gen Strive. Short travel/high for climbing and flat, and long travel/low for plush downhill. It worked very well for me.
Ha, should we resurrect the old Magic Link? The first gen was still hacky, but after that they worked really, really well.
baronKanon wrote:
Hahahaha. Two not even similar products.
They are almost the same product. One eyelet of the shock is attached to a short link that changes the sag, progression, and travel of the bike. The Canyon is manually toggled, while the old Magic Link is toggled by pressure on the chainstay.
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Primoz
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3/25/2022 12:23pm
Good point on the wheel being for another bike. Only the 12spd 10-51 cassettes (Deore included) are Microspline, no other cassettes are on MS yet as far as I know. Their road stuff is still 11spd, so HG freehubs fit the bill. Roadies hate 10spd cogs, even Sram had to put out a new cassette and front chainrings with an 11spd smallest cog for the pros to make them happy.
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3/25/2022 12:24pm
nskerb wrote:
That new Strive looks weird. For whatever reason something about it looks out of porportion. Maybe I'm just wasted. For that (supposed) Megatower, SC is doing...
That new Strive looks weird. For whatever reason something about it looks out of porportion. Maybe I'm just wasted.

For that (supposed) Megatower, SC is doing a really good job at making their normal bikes look like E-bikes lol.
I think it's because Jack (and most of the EWS guys) don't ride oversized bikes like mortal riders who use the long reach to makeup for bad technique. Also, he has it in the 'high' head angle mode which makes the front look funny.
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Primoz
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3/25/2022 12:37pm Edited Date/Time 3/25/2022 12:38pm
Primoz wrote:
Good point on the wheel being for another bike. Only the 12spd 10-51 cassettes (Deore included) are Microspline, no other cassettes are on MS yet as...
Good point on the wheel being for another bike. Only the 12spd 10-51 cassettes (Deore included) are Microspline, no other cassettes are on MS yet as far as I know. Their road stuff is still 11spd, so HG freehubs fit the bill. Roadies hate 10spd cogs, even Sram had to put out a new cassette and front chainrings with an 11spd smallest cog for the pros to make them happy.
11T, not 11spd obvs... What a mistake.

Anywho, went to have a look at HG+ stuff on Shimano's site, turns out Ultegra does have a Hyperglide+ compatible cassette in 11-30 and 11-34 and it's compatible with both HG and Microspline freehubs at the same time!

Dunno about derailleurs though (how compatible mountain derailleurs are with these narrow cassettes).

EDIT: obviously same goes for the Dura Ace cassettes, they just weren't listed in the HG+ minisite...
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Edthorne
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3/25/2022 1:48pm
nskerb wrote:
That new Strive looks weird. For whatever reason something about it looks out of porportion. Maybe I'm just wasted. For that (supposed) Megatower, SC is doing...
That new Strive looks weird. For whatever reason something about it looks out of porportion. Maybe I'm just wasted.

For that (supposed) Megatower, SC is doing a really good job at making their normal bikes look like E-bikes lol.
I think it's because Jack (and most of the EWS guys) don't ride oversized bikes like mortal riders who use the long reach to makeup for...
I think it's because Jack (and most of the EWS guys) don't ride oversized bikes like mortal riders who use the long reach to makeup for bad technique. Also, he has it in the 'high' head angle mode which makes the front look funny.
This is a nitpick 100%, but you can also get 12 speed MS cassettes in 10-45t.
Primoz
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3/25/2022 2:15pm
So Lapierre getting back into DH?
loris_74
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3/25/2022 2:39pm
Adrien Daily is riding an Antidote Darkmatter on these pictures, I guess he was free to ride any competitor DH bike since Lapierre is no longer producing DH bikes.
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Primoz
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3/25/2022 3:39pm
Finally watched the pitbits video, after the Microspline shot, there's a V10 with an XT shifter on it.

Does anyone know off the top of their head what the cable pulls for currently public derailleurs from Shimano are? Saint vs. 12spd MTN vs. some older road stuff (12spd road is useless as it's electric only...)? Though it would make sense for the proto derailleur from last year to show up again when there's an XT shifter on the bike.
M.walker
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3/25/2022 4:15pm

New air shock from Marzocchi? It doesn’t look like the current Dpx2 or X2 from Fox.
4
3/25/2022 4:17pm
M.walker wrote:
New air shock from Marzocchi? It doesn’t look like the current Dpx2 or X2 from Fox.[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/03/25/12277/s1200_88302412_3400_4BE8_8729_74B953092330.jpg[/img]

New air shock from Marzocchi? It doesn’t look like the current Dpx2 or X2 from Fox.
Looks like a float X with marzo stickers
20
TimBud
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3/25/2022 7:09pm
I think it's because Jack (and most of the EWS guys) don't ride oversized bikes like mortal riders who use the long reach to makeup for...
I think it's because Jack (and most of the EWS guys) don't ride oversized bikes like mortal riders who use the long reach to makeup for bad technique. Also, he has it in the 'high' head angle mode which makes the front look funny.
How does long reach make up for bad technique.
If anything it makes it harder because you have to be more active and aggressive on the bike.
So tired of this labelling of folk because of the size of bike/wheel/brand (etc) they ride.
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Primoz
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3/26/2022 1:11am
That didn't take long...

Re reach, X fore-aft movement on a longer reach bike (which usually means a longer wheelbase bike as well) will give you less of an effect on either the front or rear wheel. So that means you can be sloppier with your inputs and of course more precise with them on a shorter reach frame.

With a longer reach (longer wheelbase) you also get additional stability at higher speeds, which makes it more comfortable mentally, enabling 'lesser' riders to go faster. The negative is of course the tighter stuff, where long bikes ARE cumbersome (riding a 1292 mm wheelbased 150 mm trail bike, I know what I'm talking about).

If you can deal with less stability and can be more precise with your positioning, a shorter bike will give you more nimbility (yeah yeah, I know...) in the tighter stuff. I'm guessing this is a benefit the pros take advantage of.
10
grambo
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3/26/2022 1:59am
Intense prototypes already running an alternative rocker link.... [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/03/25/12282/s1200_Screenshot_20220325_231030_YouTube.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/03/25/12284/s1200_Screenshot_20220325_231128_YouTube.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/03/25/12283/s1200_Screenshot_20220325_231058_YouTube.jpg[/img]
Intense prototypes already running an alternative rocker link....


Chonkers
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Primoz
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3/26/2022 6:01am
Nah, not really, I mentioned right after the first pics came out that making it like this would make all the sense in the world... Looks chonky but it might be possible to make the link slimmer and lighter (in the thickness department) this way than the way it was originally.
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TimBud
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3/26/2022 12:00pm
Primoz wrote:
That didn't take long... Re reach, X fore-aft movement on a longer reach bike (which usually means a longer wheelbase bike as well) will give you...
That didn't take long...

Re reach, X fore-aft movement on a longer reach bike (which usually means a longer wheelbase bike as well) will give you less of an effect on either the front or rear wheel. So that means you can be sloppier with your inputs and of course more precise with them on a shorter reach frame.

With a longer reach (longer wheelbase) you also get additional stability at higher speeds, which makes it more comfortable mentally, enabling 'lesser' riders to go faster. The negative is of course the tighter stuff, where long bikes ARE cumbersome (riding a 1292 mm wheelbased 150 mm trail bike, I know what I'm talking about).

If you can deal with less stability and can be more precise with your positioning, a shorter bike will give you more nimbility (yeah yeah, I know...) in the tighter stuff. I'm guessing this is a benefit the pros take advantage of.
My question was that of a rhetorical.
So, do we go back to rigid bikes with little wheels, road geometry, narrow bars and longs stems, just so we can all be proud of our technique?
Or do we keep on heaping shit on everyone else because they chose a different size?
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Verbl Kint
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Quezon City PH
3/26/2022 7:51pm
Primoz wrote:
Good point on the wheel being for another bike. Only the 12spd 10-51 cassettes (Deore included) are Microspline, no other cassettes are on MS yet as...
Good point on the wheel being for another bike. Only the 12spd 10-51 cassettes (Deore included) are Microspline, no other cassettes are on MS yet as far as I know. Their road stuff is still 11spd, so HG freehubs fit the bill. Roadies hate 10spd cogs, even Sram had to put out a new cassette and front chainrings with an 11spd smallest cog for the pros to make them happy.
There is a 10-45t Shimano 12-speed cassette as well that is also on Microspline (it's what I have now on my trail bike). I have the XTR but I believe there is an XT version as well.
bulletbass man
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3/26/2022 8:09pm
Primoz wrote:
Good point on the wheel being for another bike. Only the 12spd 10-51 cassettes (Deore included) are Microspline, no other cassettes are on MS yet as...
Good point on the wheel being for another bike. Only the 12spd 10-51 cassettes (Deore included) are Microspline, no other cassettes are on MS yet as far as I know. Their road stuff is still 11spd, so HG freehubs fit the bill. Roadies hate 10spd cogs, even Sram had to put out a new cassette and front chainrings with an 11spd smallest cog for the pros to make them happy.
Verbl Kint wrote:
There is a 10-45t Shimano 12-speed cassette as well that is also on Microspline (it's what I have now on my trail bike). I have the...
There is a 10-45t Shimano 12-speed cassette as well that is also on Microspline (it's what I have now on my trail bike). I have the XTR but I believe there is an XT version as well.
They do. They also started producing a medium cage xt derailleur to go with it. Don’t have to spring for xtr if you choose clearance and weight over the pie plate.

I’m really hoping the new saint/zee has a long cage/larger cassette option like the zee fr. Still rocking the zee fr personally. Such a good drivetrain for the $$$. If they release one with smoother shifting and a slightly larger range I’d be all over it.
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Primoz
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3/27/2022 2:38am
I know there's a 10-45 (I think I mentioned it somewhere too), but 45 is still way too big for DH... Looking at Sram's 7spd cassette even the Shimano 30T road cassette is big.
2
3/27/2022 4:25am
Primoz wrote:
Good point on the wheel being for another bike. Only the 12spd 10-51 cassettes (Deore included) are Microspline, no other cassettes are on MS yet as...
Good point on the wheel being for another bike. Only the 12spd 10-51 cassettes (Deore included) are Microspline, no other cassettes are on MS yet as far as I know. Their road stuff is still 11spd, so HG freehubs fit the bill. Roadies hate 10spd cogs, even Sram had to put out a new cassette and front chainrings with an 11spd smallest cog for the pros to make them happy.
Verbl Kint wrote:
There is a 10-45t Shimano 12-speed cassette as well that is also on Microspline (it's what I have now on my trail bike). I have the...
There is a 10-45t Shimano 12-speed cassette as well that is also on Microspline (it's what I have now on my trail bike). I have the XTR but I believe there is an XT version as well.
They do. They also started producing a medium cage xt derailleur to go with it. Don’t have to spring for xtr if you choose clearance and...
They do. They also started producing a medium cage xt derailleur to go with it. Don’t have to spring for xtr if you choose clearance and weight over the pie plate.

I’m really hoping the new saint/zee has a long cage/larger cassette option like the zee fr. Still rocking the zee fr personally. Such a good drivetrain for the $$$. If they release one with smoother shifting and a slightly larger range I’d be all over it.
Current Zee and Saint have no trouble shifting on a 36t-cog, some people have even managed to get the Zee up to a 40/42t-cog on a full suspension frame, but that’s too much in my guess as you’d need to watch out not to compress the frame too much. I’m on a dh-bike and have an 11-36 cassette and a Saint mech - no problems what so ever, there’s room for more if i want. But i feel it’s not the right direction for a dh-bike (that gets an occasional commute ride or small climbs): a 9-32/9-36 cassette would allow running a significantly smaller ring up front. Wink
lickmycrinkle
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3/27/2022 6:16am
HugoLane wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/03/24/12256/s1200_6ED6F715_F9B0_4DE6_AA85_B9B484A2A8B9.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/03/24/12257/s1200_C9E332E4_E869_4D7E_85EB_3CC1F7B6A8EE.jpg[/img] Jack moirs proto strive



Jack moirs proto strive
Zeb is no longer stickered as Blackbox, despite being the unreleased version. Looks like a Charger 2.1 adjuster, not the dual circles found on his bike check bike. Still on the old SD, I would expect the new one by now.
Roots_rider
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3/27/2022 10:49am Edited Date/Time 3/27/2022 12:37pm
sspomer wrote:
linkage difference between loic and finn's bikes today from pit bits. thoughts on what differences are? [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/03/24/12253/s1200_20220324_UCI_DH_WorldCup_Lourdes_84T0716.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/03/24/12254/s1200_Finn_will_be_on_the_pinky_this_weekend.jpg[/img]
linkage difference between loic and finn's bikes today from pit bits. thoughts on what differences are?



Primoz wrote:
The shape of leverage ratio through the travel. The overall leverage ratio (rear wheel travel vs. shock stroke) is likely the same or very similar. So...
The shape of leverage ratio through the travel. The overall leverage ratio (rear wheel travel vs. shock stroke) is likely the same or very similar. So tuning linearity and progressivity.
@sspomer @bigbird

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/bike-check-finn-iles-custom-specialized-d…

I played around on linkage a bit to see the differences in the link. In last years bike check, linked, they comment on it being more progressive. While this is true, it's done in a slightly different way than you'd normally see. Generally, when the comment of "more progressive" is made, the starting leverage rate is higher, and the ending leverage rate is generally the same, or slightly lower. This is the case with most of Cascade's linkages. This requires a higher spring rate to actually make more force at the end of travel.
So, in the case of Finn's linkage, the entire rate comes down. Instead of starting around 3.3 and dropping to 2.1ish. His is starting closer to 3 and dropping below 2 at the end of stroke. This makes more end of stroke force with the same spring rate, but can make the top of the travel feel a bit less supple, as you have less leverage overcoming things such as friction. A starting rate of 3 is generally high enough to feel smooth with a coil shock though. Cheers.
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Fred_Pop
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3/27/2022 12:52pm
Primoz wrote:
That didn't take long... Re reach, X fore-aft movement on a longer reach bike (which usually means a longer wheelbase bike as well) will give you...
That didn't take long...

Re reach, X fore-aft movement on a longer reach bike (which usually means a longer wheelbase bike as well) will give you less of an effect on either the front or rear wheel. So that means you can be sloppier with your inputs and of course more precise with them on a shorter reach frame.

With a longer reach (longer wheelbase) you also get additional stability at higher speeds, which makes it more comfortable mentally, enabling 'lesser' riders to go faster. The negative is of course the tighter stuff, where long bikes ARE cumbersome (riding a 1292 mm wheelbased 150 mm trail bike, I know what I'm talking about).

If you can deal with less stability and can be more precise with your positioning, a shorter bike will give you more nimbility (yeah yeah, I know...) in the tighter stuff. I'm guessing this is a benefit the pros take advantage of.
I'm afraid I'm going to have to call bs on this. Shorter bikes are more tiring because you need more strength to keep the bike inline on the rough stuff. You need a lot more force on your arms to keep from folding over and going over the bars.
Weight distribution on longer bikes is actually easier because the bike is more balanced and you have a longer range of stable motion. Long bikes allow you to remain centered and the long chainstays are more stable and make it easier to drift the rear end. You tend to turn more with the backend like with a motorbike.
Climbing steeper stuff is easier due to long chainstays, steep seat angle and long front end which makes it less likely for the front end to lift and wander.
Tight stuff works fine but you do have to adjust your technique, either be more aggressive, lean more or simply learn to nose turn.
Using the pros as a reference isn't ideal as they a) tend to stick to what they know, b) don't test everything and c) don't have access to all different sizes.
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