Tire chat (nerds only)

12/20/2024 10:53am
sprungmass wrote:
Apparently Continental super soft has a durometer rating of 40/42a for the side lugs while those Terrene Chunk are listed at 48a/56a. So technically a Argotal...

Apparently Continental super soft has a durometer rating of 40/42a for the side lugs while those Terrene Chunk are listed at 48a/56a. So technically a Argotal DH SS would be pretty good 

 I own the wrathchilds and can stand by their performance in the cold. The knobs never feel hard to the tough. I do a lot of big mountain riding in the winter and they have never let me down in the freeze thaw cycles where you could be riding on frozen dirt and ice.

Where are you getting that information on the Continental? 40/42s is like Maxxis's stickest/softfest stuff and the finder pinch will tell you Conti's Super Soft is much firmer than MaxxGrip. I'll put my durometer on the Conti later today to check, but my guess is that it's more around 50. 

 

sprungmass
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12/20/2024 11:02am
Where are you getting that information on the Continental? 40/42s is like Maxxis's stickest/softfest stuff and the finder pinch will tell you Conti's Super Soft is...

Where are you getting that information on the Continental? 40/42s is like Maxxis's stickest/softfest stuff and the finder pinch will tell you Conti's Super Soft is much firmer than MaxxGrip. I'll put my durometer on the Conti later today to check, but my guess is that it's more around 50. 

 

I found that info on NSMB's article here: https://nsmb.com/articles/continental-kryptotal-tires/ 
"If I were to draw parallels to what majority of the mountain bikers are used to, the Soft compound is similar to Maxxis MaxxTerra and Super Soft is much like MaxxGrip. I've been told by the development team that the knobs are at 40/42a durometer on the Super Soft and that's a wonderful thing for the North Shore Survival toolkit!"

I did some durometer testing and forgot to share the results here but your guess is pretty bang on!

image 113

 

I found my Rekon Maxterra reading to be pretty wild. The corner knobs are softer than a Krypto DH? It might explain why that tire lasted me 12 rides on my local trails before the side knobs started ripping off. 

5
12/20/2024 11:15am

Some thoughts on the radial casings: 
-Weight: 147lbs
-Front: 29, Radial Magic Mary, Ultra Soft, Trail 
-Rear: 27.5, Radial Albert, Soft, Gravity 

Have ridden the tires on about 10 rides...  
1. Started at 26PSI and quickly brought it down to 21-22.5psi, front and rear (note that I have different casings front/rear)  
2. I've pretty much only ridden in wet, 40-58deg F conditions. 
3. Not overly impressed with Soft compound in terms of grip on wet roots (climbing, etc.) Felt like worn T9 compound I had on previously was better. Schwalbe doesn't offer 27.5 Radial tires in Ultra Soft yet. 
4. They feel too active and bouncy at higher pressures (as Jason has pointed out) This casing was developed for the world cup DH team first, so in a Gravity formulation. The thicker gravity casing reduces the 'bouncing ball' feeling from higher pressures. Which is why the gravity casing seems to respond better to higher pressures than the trail casing, which can feel quite bouncy at high pressures. That said, you shouldn't be running the tire at high pressures, and if you need to, you should move to a gravity casing. 
5. The feel amazing on trail chatter, roots, rocks, etc. 
6. The seem to roll pretty quickly off-road because of casing deformation on rough terrain, but when you get them on the pavement, or very hard pack trail, the added contact patch makes them slower rolling. 
7. Turning feels less precise, more like smearing a turn, rather than carving with sharp knobs on stiff casing. This makes sense as they react like a cyclocross tubular tire that is super supple. You gain traction from large contact patch. Vs. stiff casing pushing knobs into the soil. You can't really 'feel the knobs' like you can on normal casing tires. Again, because of how supple they are. 
8. I think I like them a lot, but can't make that final determination yet. It will be interesting/eye opening to swap back to a 'normal' tire after a month or two on these. 
9. I think the weakest thing for sure about them are the tread patterns. The Magic Mary is old/dated in comparison to Hillbilly, Argotal and High Roller III. I'd take any of those three tread patterns over the Mary. The Albert is a fantastic tread (for trail riding), but the knobs are spaced a bit close on the small volume casing (the 2.6 Gravity casing tire measures around 2.38" on my 30mm internal rim) which makes them more of a trail tire, rather than a shred/enduro/DH tire. So I think it's the patterns that are currently holding these tires back a bit. 
10. I need to ride these in dry conditions at higher speeds to make more of a final determination. 


 

10
12/20/2024 7:48pm
sprungmass wrote:
I found that info on NSMB's article here: https://nsmb.com/articles/continental-kryptotal-tires/ "If I were to draw parallels to what majority of the mountain bikers are used to, the...

I found that info on NSMB's article here: https://nsmb.com/articles/continental-kryptotal-tires/ 
"If I were to draw parallels to what majority of the mountain bikers are used to, the Soft compound is similar to Maxxis MaxxTerra and Super Soft is much like MaxxGrip. I've been told by the development team that the knobs are at 40/42a durometer on the Super Soft and that's a wonderful thing for the North Shore Survival toolkit!"

I did some durometer testing and forgot to share the results here but your guess is pretty bang on!

image 113

 

I found my Rekon Maxterra reading to be pretty wild. The corner knobs are softer than a Krypto DH? It might explain why that tire lasted me 12 rides on my local trails before the side knobs started ripping off. 

Thanks for sharing that info! 
I'm glad my fingers are a good replacement for using a durometer. 
But yea, I saw that NSMB comment and called BS on it. No way the Conti Super Soft is 40/42 if that's what MaxxGrip has been confirmed to be. Conti Super Soft noticeably harder than T9, Maxxgrip & Schwalbe Ultrasoft. Conti Soft is on par with Maxxterra and their stiffer 'endurance' compound should be used for road riding and park days haha. 

 

1
Primoz
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12/20/2024 11:23pm

Isn't Conti's strategy the reverse of everyone else, so soft on the inside, hard rubber layer over the top for endurance and rolling resistance? That would explain both the 42a durometer claim and the measurement. 

2
ballz
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Ouagadougou EH
12/21/2024 11:10am
sprungmass wrote:
I found that info on NSMB's article here: https://nsmb.com/articles/continental-kryptotal-tires/ "If I were to draw parallels to what majority of the mountain bikers are used to, the...

I found that info on NSMB's article here: https://nsmb.com/articles/continental-kryptotal-tires/ 
"If I were to draw parallels to what majority of the mountain bikers are used to, the Soft compound is similar to Maxxis MaxxTerra and Super Soft is much like MaxxGrip. I've been told by the development team that the knobs are at 40/42a durometer on the Super Soft and that's a wonderful thing for the North Shore Survival toolkit!"

I did some durometer testing and forgot to share the results here but your guess is pretty bang on!

image 113

 

I found my Rekon Maxterra reading to be pretty wild. The corner knobs are softer than a Krypto DH? It might explain why that tire lasted me 12 rides on my local trails before the side knobs started ripping off. 

Thanks for sharing that info! I'm glad my fingers are a good replacement for using a durometer. But yea, I saw that NSMB comment and called BS on...

Thanks for sharing that info! 
I'm glad my fingers are a good replacement for using a durometer. 
But yea, I saw that NSMB comment and called BS on it. No way the Conti Super Soft is 40/42 if that's what MaxxGrip has been confirmed to be. Conti Super Soft noticeably harder than T9, Maxxgrip & Schwalbe Ultrasoft. Conti Soft is on par with Maxxterra and their stiffer 'endurance' compound should be used for road riding and park days haha. 

 

A Trail/Endurance Kryptotal Re was the biggest tire mistake I ever made. Heavy, slow-rolling, hard as rock with zero grip. The worst of all worlds. 

1
Primoz
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12/21/2024 12:53pm

I wrote off the new Continental lineup because I could not believe how obviously shitty that tire was when a friend of mine got one. Turns out apparently the softs and super softs are really good... 

5
Mcintosh85
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Northampton GB
1/5/2025 2:02am

This seemed the most appropriate place to put this question, as opposed to creating a new thread.  But happy to do so if required.

Seeking advice on a new setup for 'enduro' riding.  Currently running with Maxxis DHR Fr & Rr, which to be honest is terrible.  Had reasonable success with this setup years back on the DH bike, and just transferred it over to the enduro bike.  Terrible front end grip, and generally no confidence in the tyres.  High rolling resistance.

Been doing some research, and the new Schwalbe radials look interesting, and tempted to give them a go.  Currently thinking either Albert Fr & Rr or Magic Mary Fr, Albert Rr.

Mixed reviews on the radials though, some appear to love them (paid/free product in return for good advertising??) and some dislike (as above in this thread).

Alternative option I am looking at is a Conti Argotal Fr and Kryptotal Rr.

In terms of bike setup, i'm running 27.5 Fr & Rr.  Terrain is UK, mostly loam/mud/sand/roots, very little rocks (at least on the regular riding).  I weigh ~ 93kg, not that this should dictate much to be honest.

What I am looking for is a super soft tyre, but in a lightwight, or 'enduro' casing.  Don't really require a DH casing for the riding I am doing regularly.

Any advice on a suitable setup would be much appreciated.

1
Primoz
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1/5/2025 2:56am

Classic casing from Schwalbe is the best bet for an enduro/trail casing with super soft rubber... 

Mcintosh85
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1/5/2025 3:07am
Primoz wrote:

Classic casing from Schwalbe is the best bet for an enduro/trail casing with super soft rubber... 

Ok.  Out of interest why do you say this?

Looking at the Schwalbe site then the only option is the Albert?
 

No other options in 27.5 and Super Soft.


https://www.schwalbe.com/en/Albert-11654595

ballz
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1/5/2025 6:06am
Primoz wrote:

Classic casing from Schwalbe is the best bet for an enduro/trail casing with super soft rubber... 

Mcintosh85 wrote:
Ok.  Out of interest why do you say this?Looking at the Schwalbe site then the only option is the Albert? No other options in 27.5 and Super...

Ok.  Out of interest why do you say this?

Looking at the Schwalbe site then the only option is the Albert?
 

No other options in 27.5 and Super Soft.


https://www.schwalbe.com/en/Albert-11654595

1
Mcintosh85
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1/5/2025 6:22am
Primoz wrote:

Classic casing from Schwalbe is the best bet for an enduro/trail casing with super soft rubber... 

Mcintosh85 wrote:
Ok.  Out of interest why do you say this?Looking at the Schwalbe site then the only option is the Albert? No other options in 27.5 and Super...

Ok.  Out of interest why do you say this?

Looking at the Schwalbe site then the only option is the Albert?
 

No other options in 27.5 and Super Soft.


https://www.schwalbe.com/en/Albert-11654595

ballz wrote:

Weird, that option was definitely not coming up for me earlier.  That or I am clearly retarded.

Thoughts on Magic Mary vs Albert?  Not used Schwalbe tyres before so any info is great.

ballz
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Ouagadougou EH
1/5/2025 6:29am
Mcintosh85 wrote:
Ok.  Out of interest why do you say this?Looking at the Schwalbe site then the only option is the Albert? No other options in 27.5 and Super...

Ok.  Out of interest why do you say this?

Looking at the Schwalbe site then the only option is the Albert?
 

No other options in 27.5 and Super Soft.


https://www.schwalbe.com/en/Albert-11654595

ballz wrote:
Mcintosh85 wrote:
Weird, that option was definitely not coming up for me earlier.  That or I am clearly retarded.Thoughts on Magic Mary vs Albert?  Not used Schwalbe tyres...

Weird, that option was definitely not coming up for me earlier.  That or I am clearly retarded.

Thoughts on Magic Mary vs Albert?  Not used Schwalbe tyres before so any info is great.

I have no experience with the Albert but the MM is my favorite trail front tire, the Ultra Soft rubber works really well in the slop.

3
Mcintosh85
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1/5/2025 7:11am
ballz wrote:
Mcintosh85 wrote:
Weird, that option was definitely not coming up for me earlier.  That or I am clearly retarded.Thoughts on Magic Mary vs Albert?  Not used Schwalbe tyres...

Weird, that option was definitely not coming up for me earlier.  That or I am clearly retarded.

Thoughts on Magic Mary vs Albert?  Not used Schwalbe tyres before so any info is great.

ballz wrote:

I have no experience with the Albert but the MM is my favorite trail front tire, the Ultra Soft rubber works really well in the slop.

Thanks, useful to know.  What about RR?  Not a fan of the MM on the RR?

Primoz
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1/5/2025 8:56am Edited Date/Time 1/5/2025 8:57am
Primoz wrote:

Classic casing from Schwalbe is the best bet for an enduro/trail casing with super soft rubber... 

Mcintosh85 wrote:
Ok.  Out of interest why do you say this?Looking at the Schwalbe site then the only option is the Albert? No other options in 27.5 and Super...

Ok.  Out of interest why do you say this?

Looking at the Schwalbe site then the only option is the Albert?
 

No other options in 27.5 and Super Soft.


https://www.schwalbe.com/en/Albert-11654595

There are very few options for a trail casing in super soft rubber from most manufacturers. There's what, minion dhf and assegai in exo 3c grip? There's also a whole load of super trail ultra soft Schwalbe tires though...

I have a set at home, haven't tried them yet, but a few friends (bought a set based on my suggestion) like a Mary Betty combo. Three of them (me included some time) will run super trail regular soft front and rear. 

1
Outlawed
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1/5/2025 11:38am
Mcintosh85 wrote:
Weird, that option was definitely not coming up for me earlier.  That or I am clearly retarded.Thoughts on Magic Mary vs Albert?  Not used Schwalbe tyres...

Weird, that option was definitely not coming up for me earlier.  That or I am clearly retarded.

Thoughts on Magic Mary vs Albert?  Not used Schwalbe tyres before so any info is great.

ballz wrote:

I have no experience with the Albert but the MM is my favorite trail front tire, the Ultra Soft rubber works really well in the slop.

Mcintosh85 wrote:

Thanks, useful to know.  What about RR?  Not a fan of the MM on the RR?

Most don't need a MM as a rear tire, however given your riding local, I think it would be appropriate if you want pure grip. I ran a trail casing, ultra soft combo of Mary/Chan on my enduro bike this summer and was extremely happy. Obviously an ultra soft tire in the rear won't last long but the step up in grip vs soft is worth it in my opinion.

2
Mcintosh85
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Northampton GB
1/5/2025 12:12pm
ballz wrote:

I have no experience with the Albert but the MM is my favorite trail front tire, the Ultra Soft rubber works really well in the slop.

Mcintosh85 wrote:

Thanks, useful to know.  What about RR?  Not a fan of the MM on the RR?

Outlawed wrote:
Most don't need a MM as a rear tire, however given your riding local, I think it would be appropriate if you want pure grip. I...

Most don't need a MM as a rear tire, however given your riding local, I think it would be appropriate if you want pure grip. I ran a trail casing, ultra soft combo of Mary/Chan on my enduro bike this summer and was extremely happy. Obviously an ultra soft tire in the rear won't last long but the step up in grip vs soft is worth it in my opinion.

Thanks.  Do you think Chan is better on the rear than Albert?

ballz
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1/5/2025 2:44pm
Mcintosh85 wrote:
Weird, that option was definitely not coming up for me earlier.  That or I am clearly retarded.Thoughts on Magic Mary vs Albert?  Not used Schwalbe tyres...

Weird, that option was definitely not coming up for me earlier.  That or I am clearly retarded.

Thoughts on Magic Mary vs Albert?  Not used Schwalbe tyres before so any info is great.

ballz wrote:

I have no experience with the Albert but the MM is my favorite trail front tire, the Ultra Soft rubber works really well in the slop.

Mcintosh85 wrote:

Thanks, useful to know.  What about RR?  Not a fan of the MM on the RR?

Too much of a tire in the rear for me. I like less-soft semi-slicks in better weather and slightly more aggressive sticky rear tires in the wet, but MM is too big and heavy for that. I didn't like the Big Betty in the rear either, for the same reason.

rtclark
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Location
Vail, CO US
1/5/2025 5:03pm

To the people who have been riding the Schwalbe radials. Do the sidewall casings still feel really stiff like older Schwalbe versions? It's been a while since I've ridden Schwalbe but I gave up on them because I found the sidewalls to be very stiff but then would suddenly compress all at once when hitting something with force which resulted in either burping the tire or dinging a rim. Is this still a hallmark of their tires?

amaranth
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Nutley, NJ US
1/5/2025 6:47pm

Eyeing up the radials from Schwalbe, what would be a good combo to run on a shorter travel trail bike, like the last gen Norco Optic? Would a pair of Alberts in Trail with Soft in the rear, Ultra Soft in the front be a decent combo or are there better options? When I was looking at the Shredda and the MM, both seem to have really tall knobs - where I ride we have more janky rocks and slabs, not much loam or mud for those knobs to penetrate...

1
Mcintosh85
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1/5/2025 11:36pm

Bit the bullet and gone for a pair of Albert Radials and a pair of MM's.  Both in trail.  With have a play and see what works.  Interested to see how the Schwalbes ride.

1
Teknik
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FI
1/6/2025 2:02am
earleb wrote:

Has anyone ridden the new Michelin DH16?

Sounds like the updated casing is a bit lighter on the new DH tires.

The new DH16 would be interesting to test if it's rolling resistance is lower so it should be little faster. I'm not sure how often I end up riding in wet or muddy conditions downhill as I understood it's more meant for dry conditions.

I've used in 3 years DH34/DH34 + DH34/DH34 and last season DH22/DH34 combos. The rear DH34 seems to last in my use almost one season. Maybe if I would learn how to brake more efficiently the tire would last longer - I don't know. The front DH22 seems to last two seasons. Only issue is beaten side decals when the rear tire is brand new.

1
Suns_PSD
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1/6/2025 8:35am Edited Date/Time 1/6/2025 8:36am
Mcintosh85 wrote:
This seemed the most appropriate place to put this question, as opposed to creating a new thread.  But happy to do so if required.Seeking advice on...

This seemed the most appropriate place to put this question, as opposed to creating a new thread.  But happy to do so if required.

Seeking advice on a new setup for 'enduro' riding.  Currently running with Maxxis DHR Fr & Rr, which to be honest is terrible.  Had reasonable success with this setup years back on the DH bike, and just transferred it over to the enduro bike.  Terrible front end grip, and generally no confidence in the tyres.  High rolling resistance.

Been doing some research, and the new Schwalbe radials look interesting, and tempted to give them a go.  Currently thinking either Albert Fr & Rr or Magic Mary Fr, Albert Rr.

Mixed reviews on the radials though, some appear to love them (paid/free product in return for good advertising??) and some dislike (as above in this thread).

Alternative option I am looking at is a Conti Argotal Fr and Kryptotal Rr.

In terms of bike setup, i'm running 27.5 Fr & Rr.  Terrain is UK, mostly loam/mud/sand/roots, very little rocks (at least on the regular riding).  I weigh ~ 93kg, not that this should dictate much to be honest.

What I am looking for is a super soft tyre, but in a lightwight, or 'enduro' casing.  Don't really require a DH casing for the riding I am doing regularly.

Any advice on a suitable setup would be much appreciated.

I'm REALLY enjoying the MM Radial 29 Ultrasoft trail up front, with the rear Albert 27.5 x 2.6 (it's only like 2.35" wide) Soft Gravity in the rear. Like, really enjoying it!

I did test the Albert up front and for Enduro style riding, found it inadequate.

1
schwalbai
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1/7/2025 7:49am
rtclark wrote:
To the people who have been riding the Schwalbe radials. Do the sidewall casings still feel really stiff like older Schwalbe versions? It's been a while...

To the people who have been riding the Schwalbe radials. Do the sidewall casings still feel really stiff like older Schwalbe versions? It's been a while since I've ridden Schwalbe but I gave up on them because I found the sidewalls to be very stiff but then would suddenly compress all at once when hitting something with force which resulted in either burping the tire or dinging a rim. Is this still a hallmark of their tires?

The new casings that come with a radial layup (TRAIL PRO and GRAVITY PRO) provides a noticeably more compliant and damped ride quality when compared to the "Super" Casings (Super Trail, Super Gravity).
I've found rim strikes and burping to be far less prevalent on the radial casings (adding +3 psi more than i would on the Super casings).

2
1/7/2025 12:56pm

Anybody rode supertrail vs radial in the back back2back? Idk if I should switch to radial in the back too but I worry that the grip might be too much and rolling resistance too high on asphalt.

schwalbai
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1/7/2025 1:56pm
tabletop84 wrote:
Anybody rode supertrail vs radial in the back back2back? Idk if I should switch to radial in the back too but I worry that the grip...

Anybody rode supertrail vs radial in the back back2back? Idk if I should switch to radial in the back too but I worry that the grip might be too much and rolling resistance too high on asphalt.

I haven't with the same tread pattern as a control (currently you can only do this with the Mary since the Albert and Shredda's are new tread patterns). Wouldn't be surprised if a site conducts this test soon.

But going from a Tacky Chan Super Trail UltraSoft -> Albert Trail Pro Radial UltraSoft, i didn't notice a massive difference in rolling performance. 
The grip on the other hand, very noticeable improvement. 
Though this is a apple to oranges comparison in many ways, the Alberta and Tacky Chan have different intentions. 

Something you should consider, which is a big 'pro' that isn't discussed enough imo, is the ability to run a more durable and faster rolling rubber compound, while still maintaining necessary grip. 
Not to hijack your comment, but I'd be very intrested in the back to back testing of a 27.5 Mary GRAVITY PRO Radial Soft compared to a 27.5 Mary Super Gravity UltraSoft.

1
1/7/2025 3:02pm

I'm curious if the radial casing tames the tendency of the Magic Mary to abruptly fold the edge knobs on hard pack? I've been bitten by that when riding a super trail MM a little too long into late spring / early summer on hard clay here in GA. 

mannebask
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Gothenburg SE
1/7/2025 11:53pm

My friends recent radial tire, after a handful of rides the delamination was real. Could of course be manufacturing error but his take on the radial tires was that they were too bouncy and not compliant enough. I personally love the Ultrasoft versions but I'm not jumping on the radial hype train, for now.
1000016380.jpgValhalla_ · 2024-10-07 kl 18:00

3
1/8/2025 2:52am
mannebask wrote:
My friends recent radial tire, after a handful of rides the delamination was real. Could of course be manufacturing error but his take on the radial...

My friends recent radial tire, after a handful of rides the delamination was real. Could of course be manufacturing error but his take on the radial tires was that they were too bouncy and not compliant enough. I personally love the Ultrasoft versions but I'm not jumping on the radial hype train, for now.
1000016380.jpgValhalla_ · 2024-10-07 kl 18:00

He should send that to schwalbe and see what they answer to him, looks funky and interesting. 

4
Mcintosh85
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Northampton GB
1/8/2025 2:59am
mannebask wrote:
My friends recent radial tire, after a handful of rides the delamination was real. Could of course be manufacturing error but his take on the radial...

My friends recent radial tire, after a handful of rides the delamination was real. Could of course be manufacturing error but his take on the radial tires was that they were too bouncy and not compliant enough. I personally love the Ultrasoft versions but I'm not jumping on the radial hype train, for now.
1000016380.jpgValhalla_ · 2024-10-07 kl 18:00

Thats nice to see as I await mine in the post!

Has he removed the tire and inspected the inside?

1

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