I know there is a 2 year exclusivity for specialized and fox for the genie. I just can’t remember what they said happens after that. It...
I know there is a 2 year exclusivity for specialized and fox for the genie. I just can’t remember what they said happens after that. It could be that speci will loop rockshox in at that point, so we could theoretically be seeing or will see a rockshox genie either being tested or going to market. Again, I can’t remember how the speci/fox genie exclusivity thing works
Ok, but the pictured shock is the 2025 linear XL air can as AndehM mentioned. If Rockshox Genie is a thing, this ain't it. Edit: I think...
Ok, but the pictured shock is the 2025 linear XL air can as AndehM mentioned. If Rockshox Genie is a thing, this ain't it.
Edit: I think it's funny that RS released this air can which increases air volume and makes the shock generally more linear. HOWEVER, you can fit way more progression tokens into this can than the last one so if you'd like, you can install this can and tune it to feel exactly the same as the old one.
For that reason I assumed it was going to supersede both original air cans. Looks like it hasn't (yet?)
I know there is a 2 year exclusivity for specialized and fox for the genie. I just can’t remember what they said happens after that. It...
I know there is a 2 year exclusivity for specialized and fox for the genie. I just can’t remember what they said happens after that. It could be that speci will loop rockshox in at that point, so we could theoretically be seeing or will see a rockshox genie either being tested or going to market. Again, I can’t remember how the speci/fox genie exclusivity thing works
Ok, but the pictured shock is the 2025 linear XL air can as AndehM mentioned. If Rockshox Genie is a thing, this ain't it. Edit: I think...
Ok, but the pictured shock is the 2025 linear XL air can as AndehM mentioned. If Rockshox Genie is a thing, this ain't it.
Edit: I think it's funny that RS released this air can which increases air volume and makes the shock generally more linear. HOWEVER, you can fit way more progression tokens into this can than the last one so if you'd like, you can install this can and tune it to feel exactly the same as the old one.
For that reason I assumed it was going to supersede both original air cans. Looks like it hasn't (yet?)
I was being a bit tongue in cheek when I said "exactly the same". My understanding is that if you load the new can up with tokens it'll feel like the regular can with no tokens, so the old can still has a home on particularly linear platforms.
Ok, but the pictured shock is the 2025 linear XL air can as AndehM mentioned. If Rockshox Genie is a thing, this ain't it. Edit: I think...
Ok, but the pictured shock is the 2025 linear XL air can as AndehM mentioned. If Rockshox Genie is a thing, this ain't it.
Edit: I think it's funny that RS released this air can which increases air volume and makes the shock generally more linear. HOWEVER, you can fit way more progression tokens into this can than the last one so if you'd like, you can install this can and tune it to feel exactly the same as the old one.
I was being a bit tongue in cheek when I said "exactly the same". My understanding is that if you load the new can up with...
I was being a bit tongue in cheek when I said "exactly the same". My understanding is that if you load the new can up with tokens it'll feel like the regular can with no tokens, so the old can still has a home on particularly linear platforms.
So bikes were too linear and we needed to use air shocks to fix it, but now bikes are more progressive, so we need to increase the air volume in our shocks to make them more linear. Makes sense to me!
So bikes were too linear and we needed to use air shocks to fix it, but now bikes are more progressive, so we need to increase...
So bikes were too linear and we needed to use air shocks to fix it, but now bikes are more progressive, so we need to increase the air volume in our shocks to make them more linear. Makes sense to me!
That's one reason for the various air cans, and in a world where you can get a Starling with 0% progression or a Privateer with 44% progression, big brands like Rockshox and Fox need OEM options to fit a super wide range of suspension parameters. There are other benefits to more air volume though, like more mechanical leverage to overcome seal drag. In the coil vs. air battle, more volume is a pretty powerful tool to help air chase performance. That's what they did with the new Boxxer air spring: bigger volume, smaller piston size, more PSI ===> "coil like feel." The new SDLX can doesn't offer a smaller piston size, but it does offer the same piston size and more air volume, which accomplishes the same goal.
So bikes were too linear and we needed to use air shocks to fix it, but now bikes are more progressive, so we need to increase...
So bikes were too linear and we needed to use air shocks to fix it, but now bikes are more progressive, so we need to increase the air volume in our shocks to make them more linear. Makes sense to me!
the frame designers and shock makers are always going back and forth since time immemorial - originally the shocks were too progressive, which limited air shocks to short travel until 5th element brought out a large volume can which meant long travel bikes (130mm!) could use them. Volumes got bigger and travel increased so we started adding spacers to reduce that volume while running more sag, and now we seem to have a bit of both - I still get confused by Rockshox and their naming of air springs, which take in to account the volume of the negative chamber as well as the positive chamber. Large volumes overall are generally better most of the time - you can use lower pressure for the same spring rate and get less seal friction as well as accomodating a wider range of rider weights, even in higher leverage frames
That's one reason for the various air cans, and in a world where you can get a Starling with 0% progression or a Privateer with 44%...
That's one reason for the various air cans, and in a world where you can get a Starling with 0% progression or a Privateer with 44% progression, big brands like Rockshox and Fox need OEM options to fit a super wide range of suspension parameters. There are other benefits to more air volume though, like more mechanical leverage to overcome seal drag. In the coil vs. air battle, more volume is a pretty powerful tool to help air chase performance. That's what they did with the new Boxxer air spring: bigger volume, smaller piston size, more PSI ===> "coil like feel." The new SDLX can doesn't offer a smaller piston size, but it does offer the same piston size and more air volume, which accomplishes the same goal.
So is this Linear XL just the opposite of a MegNeg? I remeber a lot of people hating the MegNeg on a lot of bikes, but great on a couple. Will the Linear XL only be okay on something like the Stumpy 15?
So is this Linear XL just the opposite of a MegNeg? I remeber a lot of people hating the MegNeg on a lot of bikes, but...
So is this Linear XL just the opposite of a MegNeg? I remeber a lot of people hating the MegNeg on a lot of bikes, but great on a couple. Will the Linear XL only be okay on something like the Stumpy 15?
Great question. I don't know the size of the negative air chamber in the new Linear XL can, so I can't say. I would be surprised if it's "the opposite" of the MegNeg. I would wager it features a healthy-sized negative chamber in addition to the really really big positive chamber. I don't think RS or any of the manufacturers are going to go back to small negative chambers anytime soon. But I don't know.
So is this Linear XL just the opposite of a MegNeg? I remeber a lot of people hating the MegNeg on a lot of bikes, but...
So is this Linear XL just the opposite of a MegNeg? I remeber a lot of people hating the MegNeg on a lot of bikes, but great on a couple. Will the Linear XL only be okay on something like the Stumpy 15?
Great question. I don't know the size of the negative air chamber in the new Linear XL can, so I can't say. I would be surprised...
Great question. I don't know the size of the negative air chamber in the new Linear XL can, so I can't say. I would be surprised if it's "the opposite" of the MegNeg. I would wager it features a healthy-sized negative chamber in addition to the really really big positive chamber. I don't think RS or any of the manufacturers are going to go back to small negative chambers anytime soon. But I don't know.
The standard air can for aftermarket shocks looks like the "linear" one which has a smaller negative chamber. This is the same company that shrunk fork air spring negative chambers again between B1 and C1 generation forks around 2021. Then re-increased negative volumes for 2023.....
"progressive" has a larger negative chamber (so actually a less variable spring rate but overall force characteristic will be higher/more supportive/'coil like' ie closest megneg equivalent) and linear XL increases positive and negative chamber volume which I assume has similar rate curve to the linear can but at lower pressures
So yeah I looked in to it and still find the naming suuuuuuuper confusing. THe Linear XL probably suits hyper progressive (as in rate of change, not just change in rate...) bikes like the Megatower or Enduro which used to not be very suitable for the megneg
You can make any shock "bottomless" if the graph just never reaches 100%!
They also normalised all of the springs at sag, which isn't realistic - the linear can would probably have the least sag and the progressive one the most if you plotted what a rider would actually use.
At 70% travel there is a singularity which allows your spring force to simultaneously be three different values. Some hypothesize that if you can push past 70% travel you will bridge spacetime and land in a parallel universe.
You can make any shock "bottomless" if the graph just never reaches 100%!They also normalised all of the springs at sag, which isn't realistic - the...
You can make any shock "bottomless" if the graph just never reaches 100%!
They also normalised all of the springs at sag, which isn't realistic - the linear can would probably have the least sag and the progressive one the most if you plotted what a rider would actually use.
Can you elaborate on why this approach is incorrect?
Isn’t that the way a consumer would set up their bike?
At 70% travel there is a singularity which allows your spring force to simultaneously be three different values. Some hypothesize that if you can push past...
At 70% travel there is a singularity which allows your spring force to simultaneously be three different values. Some hypothesize that if you can push past 70% travel you will bridge spacetime and land in a parallel universe.
For that reason I assumed it was going to supersede both original air cans. Looks like it hasn't (yet?)
I was being a bit tongue in cheek when I said "exactly the same". My understanding is that if you load the new can up with tokens it'll feel like the regular can with no tokens, so the old can still has a home on particularly linear platforms.
So bikes were too linear and we needed to use air shocks to fix it, but now bikes are more progressive, so we need to increase the air volume in our shocks to make them more linear. Makes sense to me!
That's one reason for the various air cans, and in a world where you can get a Starling with 0% progression or a Privateer with 44% progression, big brands like Rockshox and Fox need OEM options to fit a super wide range of suspension parameters. There are other benefits to more air volume though, like more mechanical leverage to overcome seal drag. In the coil vs. air battle, more volume is a pretty powerful tool to help air chase performance. That's what they did with the new Boxxer air spring: bigger volume, smaller piston size, more PSI ===> "coil like feel." The new SDLX can doesn't offer a smaller piston size, but it does offer the same piston size and more air volume, which accomplishes the same goal.
the frame designers and shock makers are always going back and forth since time immemorial - originally the shocks were too progressive, which limited air shocks to short travel until 5th element brought out a large volume can which meant long travel bikes (130mm!) could use them. Volumes got bigger and travel increased so we started adding spacers to reduce that volume while running more sag, and now we seem to have a bit of both - I still get confused by Rockshox and their naming of air springs, which take in to account the volume of the negative chamber as well as the positive chamber. Large volumes overall are generally better most of the time - you can use lower pressure for the same spring rate and get less seal friction as well as accomodating a wider range of rider weights, even in higher leverage frames
So is this Linear XL just the opposite of a MegNeg? I remeber a lot of people hating the MegNeg on a lot of bikes, but great on a couple. Will the Linear XL only be okay on something like the Stumpy 15?
Great question. I don't know the size of the negative air chamber in the new Linear XL can, so I can't say. I would be surprised if it's "the opposite" of the MegNeg. I would wager it features a healthy-sized negative chamber in addition to the really really big positive chamber. I don't think RS or any of the manufacturers are going to go back to small negative chambers anytime soon. But I don't know.
The standard air can for aftermarket shocks looks like the "linear" one which has a smaller negative chamber. This is the same company that shrunk fork air spring negative chambers again between B1 and C1 generation forks around 2021. Then re-increased negative volumes for 2023.....
"progressive" has a larger negative chamber (so actually a less variable spring rate but overall force characteristic will be higher/more supportive/'coil like' ie closest megneg equivalent) and linear XL increases positive and negative chamber volume which I assume has similar rate curve to the linear can but at lower pressures
So yeah I looked in to it and still find the naming suuuuuuuper confusing. THe Linear XL probably suits hyper progressive (as in rate of change, not just change in rate...) bikes like the Megatower or Enduro which used to not be very suitable for the megneg
Maybe this will help:
(10 points to whoever can find the error in this graph)
Lots happening at 70% travel!
And then when it hits 70% again, it goes up. But its still at 70%. Shit, this shock is literally bottomless if this graph is correct.
You can make any shock "bottomless" if the graph just never reaches 100%!
They also normalised all of the springs at sag, which isn't realistic - the linear can would probably have the least sag and the progressive one the most if you plotted what a rider would actually use.
It's bottomless, but unfortunately the rate of change in the spring rate hits infinity at 70% travel. You win some you lose some.
If my calculations are correct...
At 70% travel there is a singularity which allows your spring force to simultaneously be three different values. Some hypothesize that if you can push past 70% travel you will bridge spacetime and land in a parallel universe.
Can you elaborate on why this approach is incorrect?
Isn’t that the way a consumer would set up their bike?
And then, Craig calls you.
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