you had me until 'blows away my old 26 DH' lolI think this thread is still more about... a kinda apples to apples comparison of this...
you had me until 'blows away my old 26 DH' lol
I think this thread is still more about... a kinda apples to apples comparison of this brand is literally selling the same enduro rig with SC and DC options... as well as they may have a DH bike to compare it to. but ya the DH bike seems to always be a 'race' bike (again, only exception may be Propain technically)
and in terms of comparison, im sure the 27 inch tues with bomber stuff isnt 'the best' but... cant help but reckon the overall build would still offer more than the DC enduro rigs for appropriate usage (even bike park flow?) and for seemingly less money 😳
i think im just blown away by the audacity of the kona and Giant builds (whereas the Shore one actually makes a lot of sense). Basic press fit frames with Guide T brakes (kona) or Microshift drivetrain (Giant) its just mind boggling. but i suppose as this thread goes on the original response of 'its for bike parks to have a DC 'DH' bike, begins to make a lot of sense.
TBH DH bikes didn't progress much tech wise until the term Kinematics even became commonplace in MTB vernacular, that was only really in the last 5-6...
TBH DH bikes didn't progress much tech wise until the term Kinematics even became commonplace in MTB vernacular, that was only really in the last 5-6 years. Look at how little geo changed for instance with DH bikes. A 26" DH bike was the last that I owned but not the last that I rode, my point is still valid. At the end of the day the build is not as important at the core engineering that goes into the bike. The status, while a great bike for the price, gets overwhelmed very, very easily in legit DH race dblack trails. Putting a DC fork on a 180mm Status isn't going to change the fact that it won't handle chunk at pace...
After I posted my reply, I thought about the context of the argument. If your definition of DH park riding is laps of A-line then sure, kinematics won't matter much, lapping in-deep or 1199 different story. I haven't ridden anything except for the status, but all I can say is that my St Evo setup Air/Air with 150/160mm travel was a lot better than the new gen status, and that was with nearly identical fork and shock spec, 36 and float X. Upping the game to a coil/coil setup at 150/170mm on the st evo made it significantly better, and the Madonna is an order of magnitude better than that.
A cheap park bike is still going to be a cheap park bike. If jump trails are your jam then cool run what you brung, set it up stiff and have fun! If lapping chunky DH race laps are float your boat you might be better served riding something that has more of specific focus on good suspension kinematics, that status does not.
My buddies and I have been arguing about this for the last year. After riding some of the newer enduro bikes and my Contra falling through, I feel that an over forked super enduro with a DC isnt a bad way to go, but that being said I didn't do a budget build and won't be putting a cheap DC fork on the bike either. I'll take less travel with higher end suspension, ohlins/ext etc over more travel with the garbage that comes on the lower end spec'd bikes.
yeah thats an interesting comparison. and that kinda thing also occurs in the basic 'short travel trail vs long travel trail' concept. Mostly high end short travel vs lower end long travel.
but ya i think, as long as value is still a factor of some kind, the argument is like... the cheaper end of buying a Jeffsy (or Izzo) and a Tues, versus buying something like a Status 170 that can run 'both set ups'. or a better bike like maybe that Shore.
I guess your argument is weirdly also on my side of like 'you dont need these DC builds, just get a BETTER SC build'. So a SC build of a Stumpy or Madonna. Or, conversely, 'you dont need these DC enduros, just get a proper DH bike like a YT Tues or whatever'. Depending on which way you lean.
I have a feeling that Norco Shore is maybe the best version of this concept. That just rides well DC or SC. But I'm not sure how many people are actually bothering to pedal a SC shore on average trails. Even in its SC config it seems like a bike park build to most people. Or like a shuttle rig.
So yeah I wonder where that balance is, with both kinematics and value factored in. Do you just grab a Tues and Jeffsy/Izzo and deal with it. For like as low as 5k. Or do you just get an AMAZING enduro bike for ~5k, with top of the line parts and industry leading kinematics and ride it on anything.
you had me until 'blows away my old 26 DH' lolI think this thread is still more about... a kinda apples to apples comparison of this...
you had me until 'blows away my old 26 DH' lol
I think this thread is still more about... a kinda apples to apples comparison of this brand is literally selling the same enduro rig with SC and DC options... as well as they may have a DH bike to compare it to. but ya the DH bike seems to always be a 'race' bike (again, only exception may be Propain technically)
and in terms of comparison, im sure the 27 inch tues with bomber stuff isnt 'the best' but... cant help but reckon the overall build would still offer more than the DC enduro rigs for appropriate usage (even bike park flow?) and for seemingly less money 😳
i think im just blown away by the audacity of the kona and Giant builds (whereas the Shore one actually makes a lot of sense). Basic press fit frames with Guide T brakes (kona) or Microshift drivetrain (Giant) its just mind boggling. but i suppose as this thread goes on the original response of 'its for bike parks to have a DC 'DH' bike, begins to make a lot of sense.
TBH DH bikes didn't progress much tech wise until the term Kinematics even became commonplace in MTB vernacular, that was only really in the last 5-6...
TBH DH bikes didn't progress much tech wise until the term Kinematics even became commonplace in MTB vernacular, that was only really in the last 5-6 years. Look at how little geo changed for instance with DH bikes. A 26" DH bike was the last that I owned but not the last that I rode, my point is still valid. At the end of the day the build is not as important at the core engineering that goes into the bike. The status, while a great bike for the price, gets overwhelmed very, very easily in legit DH race dblack trails. Putting a DC fork on a 180mm Status isn't going to change the fact that it won't handle chunk at pace...
After I posted my reply, I thought about the context of the argument. If your definition of DH park riding is laps of A-line then sure, kinematics won't matter much, lapping in-deep or 1199 different story. I haven't ridden anything except for the status, but all I can say is that my St Evo setup Air/Air with 150/160mm travel was a lot better than the new gen status, and that was with nearly identical fork and shock spec, 36 and float X. Upping the game to a coil/coil setup at 150/170mm on the st evo made it significantly better, and the Madonna is an order of magnitude better than that.
A cheap park bike is still going to be a cheap park bike. If jump trails are your jam then cool run what you brung, set it up stiff and have fun! If lapping chunky DH race laps are float your boat you might be better served riding something that has more of specific focus on good suspension kinematics, that status does not.
My buddies and I have been arguing about this for the last year. After riding some of the newer enduro bikes and my Contra falling through, I feel that an over forked super enduro with a DC isnt a bad way to go, but that being said I didn't do a budget build and won't be putting a cheap DC fork on the bike either. I'll take less travel with higher end suspension, ohlins/ext etc over more travel with the garbage that comes on the lower end spec'd bikes.
yeah thats an interesting comparison. and that kinda thing also occurs in the basic 'short travel trail vs long travel trail' concept. Mostly high end short...
yeah thats an interesting comparison. and that kinda thing also occurs in the basic 'short travel trail vs long travel trail' concept. Mostly high end short travel vs lower end long travel.
but ya i think, as long as value is still a factor of some kind, the argument is like... the cheaper end of buying a Jeffsy (or Izzo) and a Tues, versus buying something like a Status 170 that can run 'both set ups'. or a better bike like maybe that Shore.
I guess your argument is weirdly also on my side of like 'you dont need these DC builds, just get a BETTER SC build'. So a SC build of a Stumpy or Madonna. Or, conversely, 'you dont need these DC enduros, just get a proper DH bike like a YT Tues or whatever'. Depending on which way you lean.
I have a feeling that Norco Shore is maybe the best version of this concept. That just rides well DC or SC. But I'm not sure how many people are actually bothering to pedal a SC shore on average trails. Even in its SC config it seems like a bike park build to most people. Or like a shuttle rig.
So yeah I wonder where that balance is, with both kinematics and value factored in. Do you just grab a Tues and Jeffsy/Izzo and deal with it. For like as low as 5k. Or do you just get an AMAZING enduro bike for ~5k, with top of the line parts and industry leading kinematics and ride it on anything.
Yeah, I agree with you on that. I never intended to pedal my Madonna, as built, its 41lbs. I have been, but thats probably more due to its got a better seater climbing position and its the new bike in the lineup so naturally I just want to roll with it. You bring up a good point, where do you draw the line... Its a fuzzy line at best.
But its not a bad place to be, 20 years ago this wouldnt even be a conversation to have, unless your were a sadist like Weir and could climb a million feet in a year on a 45lb 9 speed 36t cassette SC DH bike...
I built my Slayer with a 200mm DH38 for the park but left the 12spd drivetrain and managed to squeeze a 240mm dropper on there. Was shocked at how well it actually still pedaled (~37lbs with coil shock, full cush core, ochain, heavy duty tires) and have been riding that 90% of the time, even in rides with decent amount of climbing (1200m vert and more). Might not be for everyone and their needs but it helps that the trails in my 'backyard' justify such a bike and it's been a blast as a primary driver.
I built my Slayer with a 200mm DH38 for the park but left the 12spd drivetrain and managed to squeeze a 240mm dropper on there. Was...
I built my Slayer with a 200mm DH38 for the park but left the 12spd drivetrain and managed to squeeze a 240mm dropper on there. Was shocked at how well it actually still pedaled (~37lbs with coil shock, full cush core, ochain, heavy duty tires) and have been riding that 90% of the time, even in rides with decent amount of climbing (1200m vert and more). Might not be for everyone and their needs but it helps that the trails in my 'backyard' justify such a bike and it's been a blast as a primary driver.
hell yea we need a pic of that beast. that sounds like the right way to do it. also staying under 40 with all that is kinda crazy. we need a hanging weight pic for proof lol
I am also most likely going to build up a Slayer with a Dorado for next season as I can use many parts from my Altitude like the wheelset and spare shock and I really like to run a 12 speed cassette and a Dropper.
Just sucks that the frameset aint cheap here in germany and you can almost get a full Canyon Sender or Propain Rage otherwise.
Guess the Slayer should fit me better as I dont ride the most insane tracks and it is most likely already way too much of a bike for me.
yeah thats an interesting comparison. and that kinda thing also occurs in the basic 'short travel trail vs long travel trail' concept. Mostly high end short travel vs lower end long travel.
but ya i think, as long as value is still a factor of some kind, the argument is like... the cheaper end of buying a Jeffsy (or Izzo) and a Tues, versus buying something like a Status 170 that can run 'both set ups'. or a better bike like maybe that Shore.
I guess your argument is weirdly also on my side of like 'you dont need these DC builds, just get a BETTER SC build'. So a SC build of a Stumpy or Madonna. Or, conversely, 'you dont need these DC enduros, just get a proper DH bike like a YT Tues or whatever'. Depending on which way you lean.
I have a feeling that Norco Shore is maybe the best version of this concept. That just rides well DC or SC. But I'm not sure how many people are actually bothering to pedal a SC shore on average trails. Even in its SC config it seems like a bike park build to most people. Or like a shuttle rig.
So yeah I wonder where that balance is, with both kinematics and value factored in. Do you just grab a Tues and Jeffsy/Izzo and deal with it. For like as low as 5k. Or do you just get an AMAZING enduro bike for ~5k, with top of the line parts and industry leading kinematics and ride it on anything.
Yeah, I agree with you on that. I never intended to pedal my Madonna, as built, its 41lbs. I have been, but thats probably more due to its got a better seater climbing position and its the new bike in the lineup so naturally I just want to roll with it. You bring up a good point, where do you draw the line... Its a fuzzy line at best.
But its not a bad place to be, 20 years ago this wouldnt even be a conversation to have, unless your were a sadist like Weir and could climb a million feet in a year on a 45lb 9 speed 36t cassette SC DH bike...
Were pretty lucky these days!
I loved my TR250!
I built my Slayer with a 200mm DH38 for the park but left the 12spd drivetrain and managed to squeeze a 240mm dropper on there. Was shocked at how well it actually still pedaled (~37lbs with coil shock, full cush core, ochain, heavy duty tires) and have been riding that 90% of the time, even in rides with decent amount of climbing (1200m vert and more). Might not be for everyone and their needs but it helps that the trails in my 'backyard' justify such a bike and it's been a blast as a primary driver.
hell yea we need a pic of that beast. that sounds like the right way to do it. also staying under 40 with all that is kinda crazy. we need a hanging weight pic for proof lol
I am also most likely going to build up a Slayer with a Dorado for next season as I can use many parts from my Altitude like the wheelset and spare shock and I really like to run a 12 speed cassette and a Dropper.
Just sucks that the frameset aint cheap here in germany and you can almost get a full Canyon Sender or Propain Rage otherwise.
Guess the Slayer should fit me better as I dont ride the most insane tracks and it is most likely already way too much of a bike for me.
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