MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

Related:
nskerb
Posts
263
Joined
3/3/2020
Location
Kelso, WA US
11/7/2023 7:05am

That new v10 looks sweet as usual but the size small in its neutral settings has a rear center like 25mm longer than it’s front. The rest of the sizes look pretty similar front to rear.
 

 Not really relevant to most riders but interesting. Wonder what that rides like.

ERGue
Posts
47
Joined
1/24/2014
Location
Sedro Woolley, WA US
11/7/2023 7:38am
There is no fancy engineering or anything special about a Push shock really besides it just being well made and some nice CNC work. The secret...

There is no fancy engineering or anything special about a Push shock really besides it just being well made and some nice CNC work. The secret sauce is in the fact that it is basically custom tuned for the bike and rider. At the end of the day, without the tuning, the RS SD and the Push are almost the same. 

I do think there is scope for push to do a simpler shock that is still tuned to the rider and bike, that would be a better solution to the majority of riders. Whether Push can make that work for them financially is a different story?

I'm interested to see how their fork rides personally, THAT looks like some engineering has been put to work there!

Uh parabolic needle transitioning to a spring loaded poppet all tuned by an electromagnetic dyno for the individual chassis is the definition of Fancy Engineering in my book. Not arguing for, or against, but it’s definitely fancy. 

4
Sir HC
Posts
123
Joined
7/5/2014
Location
GB
11/7/2023 8:31am

New Kenevo SL dropping this week then.

ksl2 0.JPG?VersionId=CbQ0KY

6
sethimus
Posts
304
Joined
9/20/2014
Location
CH
11/7/2023 8:38am
jsray wrote:
Performance, price, availability, service, and even the used market. I had push on an offering v1, sb130, mullet Bronson, enduro, scout, offering v2, and SJ Evo...

Performance, price, availability, service, and even the used market. I had push on an offering v1, sb130, mullet Bronson, enduro, scout, offering v2, and SJ Evo. On all of those bikes I also tried X2, prev ver SD air, dhx and dhx2. Once the new SD coil came out I had it on a sentinel, SJ evo, and now forbidden Druid v2. Any time I get a new bike or new suspension component I take my time setting it up, different springs, and bracketing on the same trail. If I can, I bring multiple shocks to the trail and swap them in the parking lot for back to back runs. I’d take the SD ult coil for $600 delivered and spend the other $1000 on anything else. 
 

not to derail the forum too much, but to defend my statement a little bit. 

Sure, if you’re talking about value then I don’t think there’s much of an argument but that’s not how it came off when you said “significantly...

Sure, if you’re talking about value then I don’t think there’s much of an argument but that’s not how it came off when you said “significantly better”.

Given your history I’m still a bit surprised. In my experience when it comes to comparing a Push, DHX2 or any other high performing shock, it’s the tune that makes one feel “significantly better” than another. They are all great hardware but a shit tune is going to feel like shit. 


Sorry but I get tired of people saying one brand is way better than another when they both offer top tier stuff. Typically it’s the less experienced who do this though. 

you can get the r2ct with several tunes already?

2
cfox109
Posts
11
Joined
6/5/2023
Location
Lake Forest, CA US
11/7/2023 9:05am

Was really hoping for a full powered Kenevo update 

2
samdaman1
Posts
48
Joined
12/18/2016
Location
GB
11/7/2023 9:29am
jsray wrote:
Performance, price, availability, service, and even the used market. I had push on an offering v1, sb130, mullet Bronson, enduro, scout, offering v2, and SJ Evo...

Performance, price, availability, service, and even the used market. I had push on an offering v1, sb130, mullet Bronson, enduro, scout, offering v2, and SJ Evo. On all of those bikes I also tried X2, prev ver SD air, dhx and dhx2. Once the new SD coil came out I had it on a sentinel, SJ evo, and now forbidden Druid v2. Any time I get a new bike or new suspension component I take my time setting it up, different springs, and bracketing on the same trail. If I can, I bring multiple shocks to the trail and swap them in the parking lot for back to back runs. I’d take the SD ult coil for $600 delivered and spend the other $1000 on anything else. 
 

not to derail the forum too much, but to defend my statement a little bit. 

Sure, if you’re talking about value then I don’t think there’s much of an argument but that’s not how it came off when you said “significantly...

Sure, if you’re talking about value then I don’t think there’s much of an argument but that’s not how it came off when you said “significantly better”.

Given your history I’m still a bit surprised. In my experience when it comes to comparing a Push, DHX2 or any other high performing shock, it’s the tune that makes one feel “significantly better” than another. They are all great hardware but a shit tune is going to feel like shit. 


Sorry but I get tired of people saying one brand is way better than another when they both offer top tier stuff. Typically it’s the less experienced who do this though. 

sethimus wrote:

you can get the r2ct with several tunes already?

You can get them with custom tunes from a lot of tuners too, plus there's aftermarket parts of them such as the WPS piston for example

sspomer
Posts
4970
Joined
6/26/2009
Location
Boise, ID US
11/7/2023 10:00am

neko talks about production frames

 

9
11/7/2023 3:00pm
sspomer wrote:
neko talks about production frames  

neko talks about production frames

 

I've been watching most of his videos, but I'm still impressed with the high quality of the frame and I'm sure it rides great too.

1
ERGue
Posts
47
Joined
1/24/2014
Location
Sedro Woolley, WA US
11/8/2023 11:25am
I've been watching most of his videos, but I'm still impressed with the high quality of the frame and I'm sure it rides great too.

I've been watching most of his videos, but I'm still impressed with the high quality of the frame and I'm sure it rides great too.

So I get that the shock rotated 90 degrees is to allow for a straight down tube which is stronger then a bent one, but I am confused on why the shock is oriented with reservoir on bottom in the first place, wouldn’t reservoir up give the same clearance?
Does anyone know if the lower shock mount piece where it ties into the frame has a bearing in it (DU, or Cartridge, etc)?

2
Dave_Camp
Posts
371
Joined
8/25/2009
Location
CO US
11/8/2023 11:33am

Possibly better knee clearance or a slimmer rocker by mounting with resi on the bottom.

has to have some kind of bearing on the tiny yoke. 

3
Zuestman
Posts
161
Joined
10/27/2014
Location
Seattle, WA US
11/8/2023 11:34am
I've been watching most of his videos, but I'm still impressed with the high quality of the frame and I'm sure it rides great too.

I've been watching most of his videos, but I'm still impressed with the high quality of the frame and I'm sure it rides great too.

ERGue wrote:
So I get that the shock rotated 90 degrees is to allow for a straight down tube which is stronger then a bent one, but I...

So I get that the shock rotated 90 degrees is to allow for a straight down tube which is stronger then a bent one, but I am confused on why the shock is oriented with reservoir on bottom in the first place, wouldn’t reservoir up give the same clearance?
Does anyone know if the lower shock mount piece where it ties into the frame has a bearing in it (DU, or Cartridge, etc)?

Usually has to do with unsprung weight and how that affects suspension

9
11/8/2023 11:53am Edited Date/Time 11/8/2023 11:59am
I've been watching most of his videos, but I'm still impressed with the high quality of the frame and I'm sure it rides great too.

I've been watching most of his videos, but I'm still impressed with the high quality of the frame and I'm sure it rides great too.

ERGue wrote:
So I get that the shock rotated 90 degrees is to allow for a straight down tube which is stronger then a bent one, but I...

So I get that the shock rotated 90 degrees is to allow for a straight down tube which is stronger then a bent one, but I am confused on why the shock is oriented with reservoir on bottom in the first place, wouldn’t reservoir up give the same clearance?
Does anyone know if the lower shock mount piece where it ties into the frame has a bearing in it (DU, or Cartridge, etc)?

Yeah like Zuestman says above, Neko says it's to keep the weight of the moving part of the suspension as low as possible. He shows the lower shock mount here https://youtu.be/nZADPtNg_Js?t=589, it doesn't look like a cartridge bearing and it looks like the tube that holds the shock bolt is metal and then the larger plastic looking tube around that must be the bushing.

4
Primoz
Posts
3684
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
11/8/2023 11:53am

I would bet on knee clearance. I pedal and ride with knees fairly close to the frame and would prefer to have the shock rotated by 90° the way Neko did it. It would be quite a wide behemoth upside down to what he has now.

Don't think a bearing is needed in the yoke, looks like a standard shock hardware mounting set is used. It would make sense to make it the same dimensions to a shock eyelet and have a 30 mm width in the frame to give some more freedom, but the bottom shock mount sees fairly little rotation compared to the rocker... A lot of bikes have a bearing on only one eyelet.

What I would prefer to see is a pair of these yokes to fully release the shock from side to side loads.

1
1
ERGue
Posts
47
Joined
1/24/2014
Location
Sedro Woolley, WA US
11/8/2023 12:09pm
Dave_Camp wrote:

Possibly better knee clearance or a slimmer rocker by mounting with resi on the bottom.

has to have some kind of bearing on the tiny yoke. 

Interesting that it can rotate on two axes with this mount. sounds like it’s purpose is solely to allow for a 90 degree rotation of shock but I wonder if there is any performance advantages, like reduction in shock loads due to frame flex/alignment?

1
Primoz
Posts
3684
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
11/8/2023 12:12pm

Pole uses a fully rotated shock with a 90° yoke on both ends BTW.

5
ERGue
Posts
47
Joined
1/24/2014
Location
Sedro Woolley, WA US
11/8/2023 12:49pm
Yeah like Zuestman says above, Neko says it's to keep the weight of the moving part of the suspension as low as possible. He shows the lower...

Yeah like Zuestman says above, Neko says it's to keep the weight of the moving part of the suspension as low as possible. He shows the lower shock mount here https://youtu.be/nZADPtNg_Js?t=589, it doesn't look like a cartridge bearing and it looks like the tube that holds the shock bolt is metal and then the larger plastic looking tube around that must be the bushing.

Thanks, wish I would have watched that before posting lol. 

2
TEAMROBOT
Posts
768
Joined
9/2/2009
Location
Los Angeles, CA US
11/8/2023 2:47pm Edited Date/Time 11/8/2023 4:08pm

Neko's bike is super interesting. REALLY long chainstays across all sizes, and a pretty high antisquat value. I remember in his early test videos, he settled for a low pivot/mid pivot bike with more rearward axle path, and used an ochain instead of an idler pulley to overcome the pedal kickback from the rearward axle path. So if you buy a Frameworks, maybe budget an extra few hundred dollars for an Ochain. The bike also has a very low BB for a long wheelbase/long travel bike, so don't forget to buy a good bashguard or three.

14
DirtyHal
Posts
33
Joined
4/27/2022
Location
Spokane, WA US
11/8/2023 3:51pm Edited Date/Time 11/8/2023 3:51pm

Am I completely off base thinking the frameworks bike is very similar to the 29'er Banshee legend in terms of geo and leverage ratio?  I'm biased as it's my personal bike but the more I look the more I think the banshee was ahead of the curve in 2019 when it got released.

2
11/8/2023 4:17pm
DirtyHal wrote:
Am I completely off base thinking the frameworks bike is very similar to the 29'er Banshee legend in terms of geo and leverage ratio?  I'm biased...

Am I completely off base thinking the frameworks bike is very similar to the 29'er Banshee legend in terms of geo and leverage ratio?  I'm biased as it's my personal bike but the more I look the more I think the banshee was ahead of the curve in 2019 when it got released.

Unless the 2019 is different(I found 16 and 21 Banshee), doesn’t look the same leverage to me. But below the frameworks(3rd image), is the trek session, and the leverage is almost exactly the same. 3.4 down to 2.4

IMG 3112.jpeg?VersionId=x7e2BI6Uc3LmyNAmJKkiLl1EyWY2IMG 3114.jpeg?VersionId=IMG 3113IMG 3115.jpeg?VersionId=ky9H0oduwAtZrjzd

4
11/8/2023 5:54pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
Neko's bike is super interesting. REALLY long chainstays across all sizes, and a pretty high antisquat value. I remember in his early test videos, he settled...

Neko's bike is super interesting. REALLY long chainstays across all sizes, and a pretty high antisquat value. I remember in his early test videos, he settled for a low pivot/mid pivot bike with more rearward axle path, and used an ochain instead of an idler pulley to overcome the pedal kickback from the rearward axle path. So if you buy a Frameworks, maybe budget an extra few hundred dollars for an Ochain. The bike also has a very low BB for a long wheelbase/long travel bike, so don't forget to buy a good bashguard or three.

The high anti-squat was interesting but he made some good points about how it drops off when you are standing out of the seat, (as your centre of gravity gets higher) so thats what they are designed around. Alot of the Anti-squat figures you see will be done in linkage with a generic CoG height and drivetrain configuration which isn't a perfect comparison, and I know Neko went over the numbers he uses in an early video.

 

The other thing is it stays quite high through the whole travel so it will at least feel consistent - some bike have high AS at sag but it falls away steeply which means the bike feels wildly different depending on what part of the stroke you're in. Having a high but relatively constant amount seems to make sense

11
11/8/2023 11:43pm

IMG 3856

 

screenshot from Blenki/Cascades Story. I don‘t know if it already has seen daylight before?

 

9
Lazy462
Posts
2
Joined
6/28/2023
Location
Oldschdod DE
11/9/2023 12:05am
Kapolczer wrote:
Haven’t seen this posted anywhere yet, but I came across it on Instagram. Looks like ND Tuned is prototyping a 38mm stanchion fork, with a less...

Haven’t seen this posted anywhere yet, but I came across it on Instagram. Looks like ND Tuned is prototyping a 38mm stanchion fork, with a less than conventional construction of the lowers as well? Anyone know any details?

IMG 7129.jpeg?VersionId=5BGuJ2UzhKJmtgcQNHE0JQ35

These look like BOS lowers.

3

Post a reply to: MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

The Latest