Good folks of Vital.
So, because I have nothing going on in my life outside of bikes apparently and a bad case of Gear Acquisition Syndrome (G.A.S). I am seriously thinking about getting the tooling to start doing full shock services/re-shimming in my garage. I've already gone down the rabbit hole of simple suspension services for my forks/shocks like lower leg services and air can services. But have recently been inspired to take it to the next level and start to do damper services and shock re-shimming. It's also worth to note that getting even just basic damper work done in my area requires shocks and dampers to be shipped out of state and week or so at least a week of downtime (and double/tripple that in the summer).
This is also driven with the fact that I'd love to experiment more with shock tunes and performance, not only for my own bike but also for the bikes of friends. It also seems like RockShox has made their newest generation of shocks much easier to service, and the tooling doesn't seem excessively expensive. I've been a fox guy for a while, but services fox shocks is not something I ever want to tackle, so I'm thinking about making the switch over to RockShox just for serviceability's sake.
So, wanted get the general opinion on a couple questions:
For those who have used the latest gen Fox and RockShox options, do you have a strong preference on either? Is it serviceability of RockShox worth the swap over?
Is something like re-shimming even feasible for an at home mechanic, or are there too many specialty tools/skills that would make it just not worth the time and effort.
What are some of the less obvious tools or aspects worth thinking about or acquiring that would make the process easier.
Would love any and all thoughts on this!
HBO on my new Super Deluxe coil is awesome, and Rockshox shocks do not require a vacuum bleeder. Simple if you have a bench vice and shaft clamps. Also Rockshox has phenomenal tech documents and if you follow the directions it’s kind of idiot proof. Reshimming shouldn’t be a big hurdle if you’re a capable home mechanic.
A Good set of digital calipers like Mitutoyo, Starrett etc. A 0"-1" micrometer is nice to have as well. A hand dyno is another piece that's usually needed just to check functionality. A compressed nitrogen tank with the appropriate regulator and valving is another piece to consider.
No shock requires a vacuum bleeder, they just make it easier and quicker. If you're rebuilding dampers all day long, that's way too many hand jobs!😶
Tools:
Appropriate sized shaft clamps for the damper shaft
A few different size Knipex pliers
Some nice syringes (the vet ones work great and can be rebuilt)
Any specialty fittings for oil ports and charging the IFP (Anso is a great source for these and other parts/tools)
A nice pick for removing old seals
No need for nitrogen, plain ol' atmosphere works fine for home work.
Be careful when removing old seals, especially from the seal head. A small scratch on the sealing surface will render it junk.
Best advice is to have a clean/organized work space and keep good notes of what you do and any changes you make. Attention to detail is essential for suspension work.
We used to normal bleed everything at rockshox in the shop.
A wet bench/vice setup would be ideal. Somewhere you can spill a bunch of oil and not worry about it. This is what we had- Cookie pan under the vice and seal it up, get a drain fitting and hose and run that to a 5 gal bucket on the floor. You can then just build and dump oil out on the vice with no cleanup.
Yea, in highschool my parents were thrilled when my old X-vert triple dumped 4+ year old damper fluid all over the living room carpet from the kitchen counter.....
I love rebuilding Rockshox stuff, its very straight forward, just follow each step of the tech docs.
A torque wrench. Or two! They don't even need to be particularly expensive - as long as the values you need are more in the middle of the range most torque wrenches out there are accurate enough.
Especially if you are retuning things because an overtightened piston nut can crunch the shims and they flex upwards enough to create leakage, rendering your reshim completely useless. Also the delicate alloy threads will survive much longer being taken apart repeatedly when done to the correct torque. There is a fine line between a piston bolt which will rattle loose and one that clamps the shims too hard!
Otherwise you don't need a ton of special gear for either Fox or Rockshox these days. Some nice Allen keys, bench vice and some knipex pliers are worth investing in. Ali express sells cheap shaft clamps which are great too, as well as robust syringes which can be used to vacuum oil and do a far better job than straight hand bleeding.
I would say Rockshox is slightly better for home tuning - they mostly only use one base valve tune and you can swap between their stock tunes and get noticeable results. Fox has all kinds of base valve tunes which can severely limit how much benefit you get and adds a whole extra layer of complication if you can't dyno test them yourself. The RS stuff doesn't really need the shaft clamps either. If you do work on something with a self sealing nitrogen port you can get cheap needle tools easily as well....its not as much of a barrier as people think.
A variety of picks in different materials is nice. I have a saying that a cheap version of the right tool is better than an expensive version of the wrong tool, or none at all. There are plenty of places to buy handy little tools like syringes and picks for next to no money but make your life much easier!
And yeah... don't forget a torque wrench
I don't know that this counts as a tool, exactly, but in my experience learning to service suspension the most important resource wasn't a tech doc or a specific tool but a more experienced technician. Someone with the practical experience to be able to say, "Yep, keep turning," or ""You need to clamp that tighter," or "Hold on, that's not how that usually looks." Some things are easy to specify, like torque or PSI. Some things are a bit more subtle. Having someone else looking over my shoulder when I was first diving into damper services probably saved me from making (more) expensive mistakes.
It sounds like that may not be available near you, which is unfortunate. Maybe you can make some friends at whatever suspension service center you've done business with before? I know it probably sounds kinda silly, but there have been more times than I can count that I've said, "Hey, you've done this procedure many more times than I have--does this feel/look/sound normal to you?" Having someone to call in those moments of uncertainty could be clutch.
And to offer a more concrete recommendation: a heat gun for releasing thread-locker. I know some tech docs show a propane torch or similar (looking at you, Fox) but I find the electric heat gun to be a better option.
Yes a heat gun is essential many things won't come undone cleanly without it!
And adding to the guidance from an experienced tech I would suggest a couple of things - a) if you have any old shocks that aren't useful or can aquire some dead ones, have a crack at taking those apart without fear of breaking things. It can go both ways in that you don't know how hard to force something and you might hesitate on a part that you can go actually go wild on, or force something thats actually pretty delicate.
Which leads in to b) if you go asking someones advice its best if you have made a good attempt yourself, and only need help on the truly tricky parts. I don't normally mind giving people advice if they ask for it, but if they are needing their hand held for every little step that could be found on google then I'll be less inclined to give it. The service guides from RS & Fox are very detailed these days. But at the same time don't wait until you've actually broken something before you go looking for help, just be mindful you are using all the resources available to you sensibly. I know that sounds like grumpy old man speak but everyones goodwill has a limit, so you don't want to use it all up before you get to the part you really need it!
(The newest rockshox is actually much better here - in the past I would have been more reluctant to encourage people working on stuff at home because there was ZERO spare parts available aftermarket so damaging something would be incredibly expensive!)
I do not look at Fox stuff at all because of their outrageous prices for tooling that is very product/generation specific vs. RS pulling along 20+ year old tools in same spec to newer generations of products.
To service a modern Air sprung RS fork and shock you need a set of Allen keys, a cassette tool without the 12 mm pin, dust seal installation tool, a bleed syringe for mineral oil, circlip pliers (covered the fork here) and the reservoir wrench, shaft clamps, piggyback inflating adapter from RS and a torque wrench.
A good addition is the IFP depth tool. I've had these tools for over 5 years now and have serviced first and current gen super deluxes with it, Monarchs, Lyriks, Pikes, Zebs with no problems. I've also had an adapter turned to fit the damper body to do a dual syringe bleed on the shock (a la brakes). I can share the drawing for it later, I don't have it on a cloud provider at the moment.
Revalving is easy when you do the full service, it's defining which shims to put in that is the hard part.
Diy IFP depth tool:
cut handlebar and old lock on grip.
Use a ruller or caliper to adjust how much of the handlebar sticks out
Gold.
@Primoz - yeah Fox service tool pricing is ridiculous and even worse that they change the sizing every few years by a tiny amount, so you need to buy it again. I don't mind paying for tools that can be used across multiple models and generations but when they have half a dozen specific tools for just one model then its beyond a joke. I have a rule that I only buy the fox tool once and if they change the design I will make it myself or go third party (because I secretly am that petty). I honestly wonder if they are actively trying to discourage anyone other than Fox from doing servicing some times!
Clamping shafts is scary when you are inexperienced. How tight is tight enough? You can easily fuck things up both ways, some are thin walled enough to get crushed, others may rotate if you dont tight them enough
As the you and many others have said, Rockshox is significantly easier to service than Fox. Especially if you're just starting out, it makes a lot more sense to be working with RS products. One hack I've had success with is using a PVC pipe endcap as a dust seal installation tool, I think I paid $2.20 CAD from my local hardware store and it works for 35/36 mm seals. Another hack you didn't hear from me is to use a thickly wrapped tube and a vise as shaft clamps IN AN EMERGENCY. It's very easy to crush some shafts so make sure you're putting the shaft in the vise the long way around, not just clamping an inch of shaft and hoping for the best. Again, that's for a worst-case scenario, highly suggest buying a cheap set of shaft clamps or even making them if you (or a friend) have the tooling. Patience is key and if you are hand bleeding, a setup similar to @Dave_Camp's would be ideal. Plastic picks, a tube of slick honey, torque wrench, RS inflation adaptor (amazon for cheap), and a bike stand to hang a fork in are all great to have if you don't already have them kicking around.
I have a Laba7 hand electronic dyno and "Daily Shock Bleeder". Did I need these tools to do the job? No. Does the bleeder make the job like 1000% easier? Yes. One thing I highly recommend is working on a shock that you care a little less about when you are first learning how to do it. I never really screwed anything up but I feel like there was a decent possibility that I could have done so. I also ran through it a bunch of times to make sure I had everything really locked down in my mind. I did this on a Float X I had just sitting around so if I had messed it up then it wouldn't have mattered as much.
I have all of the tools to work on Fox and RockShox both and totally agree with those that are saying that Fox requires a lot more custom tools. Glad to answer any questions you might have. Since I have literally no training in this stuff other than friends and YouTube videos, it took me an annoyingly high amount of time to get a feel for what I needed to look for with my hand dyno. Mostly I got this by testing one I knew was in good shape vs the one I had bled. Lots of fun (for me) but most of my friends think it is an insane waste of time.
Thanks for your replies everyone! I already have a bulk of the tools since I moonlight as an overflow bike mechanic/bike builder. A couple shaft clamps and a few bespoke tools isn't that bad for what seems to be a natural step in my bike maintenance experience.
Couple more questions:
Is it worth getting a low range torque wrench (1-3 nm). My current Weras are 2.5-25 nm, and 20-100nm respectively.
Is it worth springing for a soft jaw vice vs just a regular vice?
What type of nylon picks are people using (links to tools would be great).
Also, when it comes to picking new shim stacks, what do you guys typically recommend, is it worth just going a step up or down in a particular stack, or going for a bigger difference between reshims?
Thanks!
Wouldn't bother with the low torque wrench, unless you have a history of stripping. Small bolts I mean.
On the fox vs rockshox serviceability, it's mostly my shop years that made me decide not to buy fox. While a lot of the service is technically similar, RS seems to have a ton of small details figured out to make service easier and require far less tools as mentioned by others. I don't imagine you'd be disappointed with the performance either but that's getting bit personal. Wasn't there a ~6k cad tool to tune a shim stack in the x2 or something?
6K? Don't be silly; the VVC tool was "only" $485 USD. Might as well get two at that price!
Low range torque wrench - not really, I have one but don't really use it. More of a nice to have and the other 2 you have should be fine
Nylon picks - I couldn't find good ones for years until found out rockshox makes some really good ones - https://nz.thelostco.com/products/rockshox-glass-fiber-reinforced-nylon-non-scratch-o-ring-pick-tool-qty-5 . You can find them locally but thats the part. There are others around but I find they are too soft to be much use and these seemed bang on tough enough but can't damage anything. No idea how long they've been making them! I also have brass picks that get the most use as well as regular metal ones
Vice - I just use a regular one with soft jaw inserts
Picking shim stacks - thats the part you kind of have to try and find out. Some brands have big jumps between tunes while others have barely noticeable changes. Rockshox is normally quite close so I would probably go at least 2 steps on the compression side, whereas Fox could be either and it changes with every generation!
Also every tool must be clean. hands, surfaces, everything really as clean as you can.
So timely this post is.
I'm currently working on rebuilding friends' Zebs and one 3.1 damper upgrade. I always take a hard pass on working on anything Fox. Just not interested with Fox Shock or Fork.
Since we're nerding out with at home suspension service and tuning tools and hacks, here are the following stuff I have personally which have made my life easier when working with suspension.
1. Adjustable and locking wrench. If the Maven brakes are my personal most impactful upgrade, these adjustable wrench is that for my toolbox. It replaces many various open end wrenches especially the odd sizes like 23mm, 28mm and 34mm. Feedback makes one but I don't like the locking mech on it plus not the $55 MSRP for it either. Kobalt set for $20 and I get two (the other is a smaller one). Had to grind the teeth down and the jaws to be a bit slimmer to fit skinny slots like the RS Charger IFP tube.
2. 3D printed polymer soft jaws. This is a copy of the RS' damper shaft soft jaws but with a flat end. No more inadvertent crushing of alloy shafts from alloy soft jaws.
3. You could never have enough soft and firm nylon/plastic picks. Got these from Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C6FKFQYT?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title). Beyond suspension, I also use these picks to scrape old stubborn sealant or rim tape goop in carbon rims.
4. PVC dust seal drivers. But the RS' 38mm driver is just too smooth not to own.
5. Then there are just shocks and dampers that require proprietary tools. Luckily and thankfully, SRAM makes getting these tools convenient and priced reasonably. I also think SRAM realized that the old Vivid shock surgery caused many mechanics to discourage consumers from buying another Vivid back in 2012. It was a royal pain. The new gen Vivid Air is far more easier to service and RS sells a Vivid Air tool set in a bag as pictured.
As someone mentioned, heat gun. Not hair dryer, proper heat gun. The buttercups housing on RS new forks almost always require you to soften the loctite to access the pucks.
The 6k tool was 5k or 5,5k and it was a tool for the Trek ISO strut shock. Source: angrybikemechanic.
I've always wanted to play around with the ReSacker program for shimming. Every time I do though I get confused and aggregated. I believe once you figured out that program it could be really useful.
Shim Restacktor? Did you buy it?
https://restackor.com/
It's not. The results arent even close to the real world but even in you spend hours getting perfect measurements of your damper it still doesn't give you anything useful. It promotes itself as replacing a dyno but it really isn't, you are better off with trial and error as restackor will just confuse you. You would think it might be useful to iterate shim stacks before dyno testing them but it isn't, I'm pretty sure it would be cheaper and easier to teach yourself CAD and CFD with some of the free and open source software tools out there instead. I don't know anyone who uses it once they own an actual dyno
Maybe play with the free version to get an idea of how things work but definitely take it with a grain of salt
Yes, that's the site I was referring to. I haven't purchased it, but played with the free version just to see how it works.
I get confused by it every time I try to use it.
What in your opinion of an easy shock to start tuning? I have a 2022 Fox DHX coil and a Fox Van/bomber CR. Both seem pretty easy to work on at home.
Agreed, I started working on my RS shocks this year and was pleasantly surprised at how accessible it was. Really not scary at all. A bit more involved than working on forks, but not by much.
I haven't used ReStackor because I'm really not picky enough. I'm fine with taking one of RS's tunes (they have a document with all that) and running with that.
Yeah me too, and the website isn't super helpful but that's a whole other thing! I had a paid copy but a while back I reinstalled windows and didn't think to try get the license transferred, but it's not worth trying again
Both of those shocks can be pretty good to tune - the bomber maybe gets the nudge by being pretty straightforward to change out fox's factory tunes with noticeable results. The base valve has some quirks but it is still a good platform. The DHX can be good as long as the base valve doesn't have one of the tunes with extra free bleed - you can change that but its slightly more complicated to do. Otherwise changing the main piston won't be as noticeable. Unsurprisingly it looks like the latest gen doesn't have extra free bleed shims which was a good move
Thanks again for everyone's help! For those who have tested things in dyno, is there any correlation to Fox's tune codes to RockShocks? E.g is the light compression code for Fox similar to the c26 compression code and so on. Be curious on where each of the companies "tunes" land in comparison to each other.
Post a reply to: Shock servicing at home