What’s everyone using out there that’s actually lasting at the minute? Over the last 3 years I have probably went through 5 rear mechs. None of them broke but they just keep wearing out, 2 gx eagle mechs lasted probably 3 months each and by that stage the slop in the mech made shifting impossible to setup across the whole cassette as well as the clutch being completely gone and the bike sounding like it had an ak47 strapped to the chain stay. I tried an xt and an slx which where even worse for slop after a couple of months and after a while the adjustable clutch just wouldn’t tighten up. I shelled out on a sram xo eagle mechanical and at about 4 months old slop is minimal but the clutch is long gone. I should say in the last 3 years I’ve climbed on average 780,000 feet a year so I realise it’s high probably a consequence of high use too but surely there’s something out there where the clutch lasts a bit longer as there plenty of other people who ride that much. This year I’m not planning as riding as much as previous years but still want to find something that lasts for a new build. I was looking at the new sram transmission or maybe xtr? I had thought about going back to old sram 11 speed as they definatley lasted longer but I’d have to get the legs stronger again to pedal the old 42t, spoilt with the big 50t eagle!
no issues with my XTR 12 speed, 6000km's of abuse. Haven't even greased the clutch or had to adjust it.
780000 feet of climbing a year is high no matter how steep your trails are / aren't...I'm going to say you're a rough shifter or overly sensitive to the sloppening of your derailleurs. I'm assuming you're also spending time riding down and across these hills...I'm pretty sure I'd be okay with this wear rate...consider it your tax for being able to ride so often!
Probably both to be fair
I'm usually somewhere in the 90/k meters, so nowhere near your 780/k ft. But had the same experiences with XT and SLX. both wore out super quick. usually after half a season it was necessairy to service the clutch every two weeks which was straight forward annoying.
Trying my luck with transmission next season.
The big issue for SRAM owners is the Shimano patent for adjustable clutch. Which makes SRAM having their clutch non-servicable and non-adjustable. This is not good, as the friction surfaces will wear.
Sram 11 speed with an XT or SLX 11speed 11-46 cassette is the most reliable I've found while still getting close to Eagle lowness.
In my experience, Shimano derailleur clutches (especially on their 12-speed products) are often under-lubricated from the factory and suffer from water ingress. I like the ease of service on the Shimano clutch mechanism, though. It's one of those things where if you're willing to service it slightly more often (not just the actual clutch, but the main pivot, too) it can last a very long time. FWIW Shimano does actually specify a breakaway force for their clutch in their tech docs, and if you're running it substantially tighter than that you might experience premature wear.
That said, I also have a preference for slightly lower clutch tension because I like a lighter shift action. So my derailleur clutches may not be working as hard as yours. I run a top guide for a little extra security and don't rely completely on the clutch for chain management. YMMV.
If you are up for the initial cost of the system all parts on the Transmission derailleurs are now replaceable so you could keep some spare clutches in the toolbox and swap as you burn through them. This may also give you an idea of what the specific wear points are that are causing your slop and see if you can come up with some home remedies to extend life.
All good points made in this forum. Being in the auto parts industry for 20+ years, all friction material wears out (m/t clutch disc, a/t friction discs, brake pads, etc.). Maintenance is probably best course of action and/or a clutch replacement twice a year.
I have 1400 miles on my XT rear mech (Privateer 141), but my clutch wear may not be as prevalent, due to my STFU chain dampener keeping chain slap noise at a minimum.
I run stfu myself, great product, I’ve been running them for about 4 years and wouldn’t build a bike without stfu now, makes a massive difference
I’m into this idea, I badly want the transmission but couldn’t justify the money but if it makes a difference to noise and I can get a good lifespan out of the rear derailleur. I really prefer to buy something and be able to service it over and over, throwing away derailleurs that look perfectly fine on the outside but have no clutch tension and are full of slop just feels so wasteful.
I've put multiple seasons on both GX and XO mechanical derailleurs without issue. However, when I switched over to GX AXS I noticed a severe drop in cage clutch force. I say cage clutch because there is a breakaway clutch on electronic derailleurs that also wears. I have about 400 miles on a GX AXS derailleur and it slaps around worse than an Altus derailleur on a huffy. Im not surprised as the GX AXS derailleur is just an NX with a few XO electronic bits thrown in.
FWIW, I do the jank "hall lock" hack with a pedal washer put between the B plate and the derailleur body on all of my Eagle derailleurs. It works well to keep the body from slapping around but puts more stress on the clutch
I currently have a shimano deore derailurer and I had some problems with the clutch after about 500 miles of use, all I had to do was take it off the bike and tear it down completely. After I cleaned everything really good and applied to right grease and stuff it works great and I have not had a problem. This is also coming from a guy that lives in the pnw and are winters are quite wet so parts don't last to long. Hope that helps in some way.
I just started thinking about getting a new rear mech; in fact I made a thread asking for advice. My old NX 11-speed just started dropping chains because the clutch spring was all gummed up. I was able to clean that up and regrease it, but I noticed that the cage pins are all loose and the jockey wheels are janky. The thing doesn't really stay quiet or shift perfectly anymore. Not too bad; I have about 3,800 miles on this bike with the same derailleur. Maybe the heavy, cheap ones last longer? Dunno, I'm going to get a GX and see what longevity I can get.
Sram mechs don't have a friction member clutch like Shimano, it's just a wound spring. I'd say in reality, neither of them is an actual "clutch" by definition. The Sram is a lockable high-tension spring, and the Shimano has an adjustable slip friction band. Neither release nor vary the speed of rotation during use as a true clutch would.
The issue with a Shimano "clutch" is that it is reactive to suspension movement and chain tension, it is always a milli second behind where it should be, especially as you tighten it to try to reduce noise. Sram derailleurs provide a consistent amount of tension, they are at least always holding the chain in tension, instead of reacting to its movement by adding resistance.
Anyway, I digress. The best derailleur for life expectancy is the XX1, is it worth the price difference? Maybe not. Is it better? Yes.
Have had good luck with shimano deore 12 speed. They seemingly fixed the issues Slx and xt suffer
You're right about the description, which is why Shimano calls it a stabiliser rather than a clutch.
I thought I was having trouble with mine (XT M8100) but it turned out to be the derailleur's pivots drying out and binding up due to the dry and dusty trails I ride on. I now keep those lubricated with penetrating spray and they remain smooth.
I'm not sure I have much of a solution, both brands seem to have issues but my main observations are -
People run the shimano clutches way too tight - if you're having chain drop or noise issues, its probably not the tension, and running them too tight will only accelerate wear. They have a setting you can measure with a torque wrench. Chains always have a degree of "flap" even without the mech moving at all so continuing to tighten it doesn't help.
Use the correct grease if you service it - this type of mechanism relies on the right kind of slippage between the parts and different greases will have a massive effect. I haven't found a great alternative yet so stick with what shimano recommends
Set up, especially chain length could be a contributor. 12 speed bikes are mega sensitive to chain length, especially sram. There is really only 1 correct number of links to use on your bike, and just a single link (well pair) too long creates all kinds of issues with shifting and loads on the derailleur. This probably accelerates wear as well so triple check that when setting up.
It sucks that the sram ones aren't serviceable - they do seem to wear or some are just possibly dodgy out of the box but you can't fix them?!? Kind of just makes it a roll of the dice if its going to work or not
I swapped my drivetrain from GX AXS to XT mechanical for this reason exactly. The pedal washer is a good idea. I was doing the Hall Lock thing with an o-ring.
I have been know to service brand new shimano derailleur clutches and have been glad I did
I have 3 Shimano derailleurs on different bike with sticking clutches and not that many K's on each but I haven't taken any apart and done a full service with the correct grease yet so that's really on me. I do prefer the adjustable tension of the Shimano as the one Sram derailleur I've owned was an 11 speed x01 and while its was pretty well used there was so much noise coming from the lower chain moving and the cage snapping back in on itself.
Interestingly I heard Chris Porter from Geometron used to use 11 speed Shimano derailleurs with the clutch mechanism completely removed so that there would be no impact on suspension performance. It would be interesting if there is any measurable difference from this or would the extra chain slap overpower it.
t type clutches are built into the replaceable cage. allowing them to have replaceable clutches.
Yeah there is an extra measureable force at the wheel, especially on bikes with high kickback or mechs with a sticky clutch. So its not a crazy idea. The chain slap might not have been that bad - I think its alot to do with frequencies in the system of tyre + swingarm + shock so on some bikes the chain slap isn't as bad as others. Just a hypothesis but there has to be some reason why people can still drop chains even with a chain guide + narrow wide ring + clutch derailleur.....
I also think clutches could be way better - sram uses a rotary damper on their road mechs I believe which I would love to try on an mtb!
Any chance you're using an oval chainring? I have a few friends who swear by them and they seem to wear the clutch quite a bit faster.
On 130mm trailbike: 8600mi on my last XO1 Eagle RD before slop killed shifting; 3700mi on current XO1 w zero chaindrop or slop issues. On 170mm enduro: 2100mi on current XO1 Eagle RD & likewise zero issues in spite of far more rock kisses. Ride in dry, rocky NorCal conditions & run a front chain guide. Average year is 4000mi & 500,000' vert. Your annual vert numbers may well be 1%er territory, but I have no idea how you are smoking XO1 clutches in just 4 months. Chain too short? As for Shimano, I gave up on their clutches back in 11spd days: was getting less than 2500mi out of 10 and 11spd XT and XTR derailleurs, regardless of how or how often I serviced the clutches.
Just a standard round ring for me.
It could be the type of climbing that’s killing them, it’s all winch and plummet, I’m lucky if I cover 2500 miles in a year for 780,000 vert, it’s all just steep grinding gravel path climbs here mostly in the mud. I might get the transmission and give it a go, anything for a quiet bike and serviceability.
Hi
u can go 11 speed & have 30t by 46t , have xt 11 speed, climb about 2500 mtr weekly 3 or 4 rides & change the clutch twice on the winter bike & use one on the summer bike ..
winter u can clean & grease the clutch only take 5 mins & new clutch is only £10 each
f##k 12 speed crap made from cheese & tolerance is not good ...
i never had one last 18 months as tree stumps or rocks always get in the way
new clutch always make the mech feel like new though
related to the correct grease.. can anyone point to what is the proper way to service the shimano's clutch (slip friction thingy) ? read inconsistent info on no grease and some oil.. thanks..
put shimanos specific grease around the roller. and make sure to clean the rest properly.
MARD001 | Manuals & Technical Documents (shimano.com)
that's what i did every two weeks
Am I the only one who can increase type 3 clutch effectiveness?
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