MTB Racing and Outside-of-the-Industry Money/Sponsorship

All this talk of title sponsors... what happened with Mercedes? They were the title sponsor for the Mtb world cups starting in 2018, I don't recall reading if that ended, or when. I do not see their logo present these days. Derailed by COVID maybe?

First off, we already have some pretty successful examples of outside sponsorship. Think Red Bull, Monster, Rockstar, Clifbar. Those have allowed some athletes to afford houses and make a true career out of being a rider/racer.

Look at other professional racing/sports. They all have outside industry sponsors and even some cycling brands sponsor outside the cycling industry (Specialized/Intense) supporting MX/SX race teams. They see value in expanding to additional markets. Think how big Norba was when Chevy Trucks were sponsoring. Think iconic race cars covered in Marlboro.

The bike industry only has so many dollars to go around for sponsorship/marketing. At the end of the day, we consume other consumer market materials beyond bike stuff, outside companies see that and it makes sense for them to market to us in our place of passion. No harm in letting them into our market if it results in bringing in outside dollars. 

In the "Golden age" of XC mtb in Spain (early 90's), many big sponsors were alcohol or tobacco firms and we had the "Larios DH Cup" (gin), the "J&B XC Cup" (whiskey), "Team Coronas mtb" (tobacco) and others. Money was flowing, good times. Years later (after the tobacco and alcohol sponsorship and advertising ban) I still remember the Grundig World Cup and others.

Maybe not tobacco and/or alcohol, but I think external money can be very welcome back in the mtb circus.

That is definitely an interesting point. I think it is shown that they currently can. How long each of those lasts is TDB. Though if you look at some of the riders getting sponsored by CBD and OF, they can be limited, but when the interested sponsor goes for the whole league or series (LIV), then the rules change a little. 

For sure energy drinks have a potential risk and they could be limited in the future, but they are also working/talking to a huge part of their customer base. Just like beer sponsors at NASCAR races were talking to their direct consumer. It is for sure an interesting topic. I see it being a ways off before we see so many 'extreme sports' limit the energy drink brands from being involved.  

Curious what you see and what others think about this. 

I'd personally doubt energy drinks will ever be equivalent to cigarettes as there is no such thing as a healthy amount of tobacco use while but having an energy drink once a week isn't really unhealthy.  And sure much like alcohol the vast majority of energy drinks are bought and consumed by those with an unhealthy habit I doubt either will ever be culturally unacceptable the same way cigarettes have.

I think the main issue really is the lack of hustle on behalf of the top of the sports management circles.  With how often MTB is used to sell product (Even recently in a US Air Forces recruitment commercial) it's almost criminal how rarely a pro mtber featured.  Now I don't expect it ever to be like the 90s/early 2000s where action sports in general was a huge fad.  But it should be better for the top of the sport in their home countries and europe where they do have a fanbase and potential for recognition to anyone after a quick google search.

Certainly a fair point, but keep in mind that there is an 'acceptable' number of alcoholic drinks a person can have each week. But many sports are limiting the amount of sponsorship (via visibility allowed on athletes or vehicles) of alcohol brands. 

I am not really sure that is fair to say these sports management teams and athletes are lazy. Ford currently works with TMac, Paris Gore, and other professionals in the cycling industry for the Bronco. Ford also supports an XC race team. Look at the World Tour teams, a ton of outside industry support. MTB may just not be visible enough for some of these big brands and a lack of tangible ROI. 

I'm kinda torn on the subject, I can understand outside money might help the elite to make a better living from racing but does it make the sport better?  Do we have an example of a lame sport that became better because of better funding.. I don't have an immediate opinion but I can't think of anything. BMX does not have much funding but IMO is cool AF. They maybe have bigger events with outsider sponsors like the X-games. I can also see the impact of the Olympics on the development of XC, and BMX in many countries..

We should also agree on what is good and bad for the sport
For me it would be:
- more and easier trail access (even if building rogue trails with your buddies is part of the MTB DNA culture)
- cheaper bikes (I guess more riders = more volume = lower prices but maybe engineers could also work on that instead of always focusing on marginal gains performance)
- more inclusive: more girls, more minorities, more kids (but not too many kids, I don't want my trails to turn into a skatepark)
- easier path to racing and especially elite racing (Here I can see the money .. but maybe it would be better to use it on grassroots racing)

Being selfish, a better sport for me doesn't mean
- crowded trail system, where I live, there aren't many opportunities to legally build infrastructure to welcome many more riders
- dulled race format, the spirit of racing altered by corporate interest
 

I'm not convinced that more people, more money will make my experience as a mountain biker better

I contend that some sports such as MTB became cool/grew because of outside sponsorship. Outside sponsorship brings about visibility of the sport which brings in more resources, participants, and venues for the sport to be seen/participated in.

Rampage only happened because of Red Bull. Sure it might have happened eventually but Red Bull made it happen in 2001. That event has made our sport cool.

Norba nationals brought to you by Chevy Trucks put MTB on TV. 

Both of these have led to MTB being seen in the broader market and bringing in new riders and legitimized the sport. 

But to your point, as a rider, it may not matter to participants who sponsors who or what company comes into the fold. 

I think people would be very surprised how low salaries are for support staff. I know of one mechanic working for a decent team that was paid in the form of a bike. Sure they got to "travel" but it was very low. 

While it may seem like there are only a few days of "work" they are huge days and don't forget, these guys drive the van around and spend months away at a time. Some of the teams down even spring for a hotel with one big team having the mechanics sleep on the race truck...

It's a good job but, the money in the sport is A LOT less then what people think 

The liv golf thing was/is a wild story and maybe relevant but for a different reason? Basically the PGA held a monopoly on players & tournaments which made it tough for new players to own their image, media and where they could play. LIV stepped in to give players more freedom and control over their careers which really shook up the industry. They are definitely not saints but it exposed the PGA and its practises and forced some massive shake ups (including an eventual merger which stitched up the guys who rejected big offers to go to LIV). 

Point is, whatever path the sport chooses to take, it needs to make sure the actual participants are looked after and properly reimbursed. I chose indifferent on the poll because outside money could be a good thing, but only if it actually goes to the riders & staff,,,,which isn't necassarily a given with things like this!

It needs to be a 2-way street, money coming in would have to be making it in to the hands of the people who create the action but also the riders will need to be more conscious of providing value for those sponsors too.....it's not an easy fix but I think things need to change if we want it to be sustainable in the long run

I sound like a broken record, but I spend a majority of weekends in late winter through to early summer wrenching for a local U23 and NICA national level race team.

I took it upon myself to try and rustle up some sponsors for the team this season, and granted we’re pretty small potatoes in the grand scheme of things, but my initial idea was to approach only outside the industry, or industry adjacent companies under the assumption they likely have more promotional budget to toss around some product, as I wasn’t even asking about financial support. Unfortunately, I was mostly met with being left on read and not receiving a response, some apologized and said their budget was spoken for, and a few straight up said they were not interested in putting effort into something so small. Maybe this wouldn’t happen if you were a large event or series, or had a larger foot print on social media, so I could see this potentially being a different outcome for those who fall into that category.

I was mainly targeting “healthy” drink alternatives, like Liquid IV, Drip Drop, and Liquid Death as I personally feel like those are the way forward as compared to the ubiquitous energy drinks we are inundated with on a daily basis. I went after Instagram eyewear and outerwear companies, approached companies from other action sports like skateboarding and snowboarding, and chased moto companies due to the obvious cross over. I don’t know if we will ever see the likes of Toyota or Chevy being title sponsors ever again, but what about a world where teams or events are sponsored by smaller, but just as recognizable brands who actually have some cross over or use in our sport? A team sponsored by Patagonia? Carhartt? Prime drinks? Or brands that are adjacent, but not heavily involved in our sport? Stance socks? Moose racing? Fitness/weight training brands? Coffee companies? Or even the odd ball companies that might draw interest from MTB fans? Traxxas RC cars? Gel Blaster toys? Those ridiculous Stanley cups?

I guess I look at other sports or events who get far more eyes on them than mountain bikes do, but are still much smaller scale than your mega big time stick and ball sports and see what they’re doing and who they’re attracting. We’ll never be on CBS at 2pm on a Saturday, but maybe one day we can at least get back to the days of being featured on OLN and hopefully draw in some outside dollars again.

(shameless plug to the companies who did step up for us this year… thank you Ryno Power, Tifosi, MountainFlow, Better Bolts, MTX,O’Neal and ODI. We appreciate you. 😊 )

Say a riders career is maybe 10 years if you have a good run. (lets leave out old greg here) that's 10 years to make as much money as possible to fund future endeavors, education, housing etc. If you are not a top 10 guy, that won't be a lot of money.

I follow major league baseball, the minimum salary is $740k USD! this is to be a nobody that sits on the bench. That's Gwin money! to be a nobody!

Make that cheddar while you can baby! I'd wear Fleshlight branded clothing to get that Moolah if I had to!

I'm going to obviously say that outside money is useful/important/beneficial. (https://www.instagram.com/vandr_racing/)

V+R was created to specifically address a big gap in the sponsorship world, specifically financial support for junior women. We can't speak for our riders, but it seems to have made a difference. I would love to see more outside the industry sponsorship.

i would like to point out that before Mercedes happened in the 2010's, there was a Mercedes Benz Marin MTB racing team circa 1998 with British racers such as James Allaway and Dave Hemming.

We also had: Volvo Cannondale, Schwinn Toyota, Trek Volkswagen, Ford Kona, Gary Fisher Subaru, Subaru on Mountain Dew Specialized, BMW Proflex, Klein Catera, Chevy Trucks on Team GT, Wiesmann Roadster on Nicolai made bikes and so on and so forth.

The World Cup was also sponsored by German electronic maker Grundig in its beginnings, then by Diesel and then famously by Rocky Roads, thanks to the awesome people of the UCI.

I hope I did not derail this topic. The point is there was money from outside the industry and that is a good thing.  
Mx

For context to help the discussion, the top road racers all make multiple millions per year probably due to outside company sponsorships:

https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/report-ranks-pro-cyclist-pay-from-t…

Pogačar gets paid €6.0 million; Next on Gazzetta’s pay-podium is Primož Roglič at €4.5 million ($4.9 million USD), and Vingegaard at €4.0 million ($4.4 million USD).

My point being, that's a lot of money on the table. Curious what people's thoughts are regarding outside company sponsorship knowing it could make such a huge change in rider salaries.

I think a major point that gets missed here is just how MANY sports there are to sponsor now. Back in the 90's BMX and Skateboarding were still fringe ( sadly not now ) and Motocross was hardcore fans only. Now we have Parkour, wingsuit flying, Freeriders in every sport, go karts, Buggy racing, Rallycross etc etc the list goes on. You can find a compeititve version of almost every hobby / sport going these days. The pot of money has grown but far outsripped by demands. Social media also enhances those sports that get $$. Poker players with energy drink sponsors etc ( Not sure if thats a thing as gambling bores me but im sure it is ) 

I don't think it is a lack of hustle in getting outside sponsors, it is a lack of exposure for the sponsors in any form of MTB.  We don't have the TDF with billions of viewers to drive viewing of other events.  How many viewers does a typical WC XC or DH race get?  Where on the socio-economic scale do those viewers sit?  Big difference in advertising value between a 19 yo that attends a DH race with a chainsaw sans chain and a 40 something watching the big TDF stages on the weekend.

This is the real reason that salaries are so low in MTB and so high in golf as an example.  Has nothing to do with the athlete and everything to do with the viewers and what they buy.

i believe heritage plays a big role in this one. Road racing has a 50+ years head start. People are cool with the TV being on and some dudes rambling for 6 hours about the landscapes of France and they don't need to pay much attention to see what happened, because everything happens very slow. it would be interesting to see if both MTB and road cycling had the same start, which of them would attract more viewership. But we are not in that point, now are we?

MTB isn't the cool new kid on the block it was in the 90's, so the people who are in change of marketing the sport must put the best effort into it to make it visible and viable. Because the ”it's not fair the doping lycra dudes are getting all the money” attitude certainly doesn't bring anybody anywhere. I'm really curious how the ESO will do in the next year, if they stay ignorant to criticism or if they actually move for a change, if they try to bring the life back to enduro racing etc.

Mx

Isn't it a bigger issue that not only is racing sponsored practically only from inside the industry, all the (review) websites are as well (barring a few options with paid subscriptions). Isn't it a bigger issue that a review site is beholden to the companies they are effectively reviewing? 

Linus Tech Tips for example make a point to have ad revenue streams completely unrelated to companies they actually report on in news and reviews (barring sponsored or showcase content, marked as such). That way you can they can freely objectively report on products without fear their income stream will be cut off after a bad review. 

point of context here - and with a full disclaimer that I don't know all the details of the PGA / liv situation - but here in the US some profession sports leagues (NFL & major league baseball) are, in some aspects, exempt from anti-trust laws. Not sure if the PGA had any sort of similar exemptions, but I wouldn't be surprised. 

I’m relatively new to mtb racing(gonna be my 31st year racing this year) but before I started racing, I was a teenage super fan who studied the history of MTB racing the way normal American jock kids study sportsball.

American mtb team sponsorship was historically more about real life brand activation than earned media.     20,000+ people used to go to American mtb races 6-7 times a year just to spectate.   The value of the outside industry sponsorship was seen as being in front of those stoked people- driving 3+ hours from home to watch DS, XC, DH.   Of the 20,000 spectators, perhaps 1500 of them were also there to compete in amateur racing.    A few weeks later, a half hour recap show would air on ESPN2 at 2:30 in the morning- still something that counts as earned media for the purpose of building contracts and squeezing money from outside industry sponsors, but the value in domestic mtb sponsorship used to be getting your Nutter Butters, JBL Sound system, Mtn Dew and “Sporty Cadilliacs” in front of thousands of consumers who could touch and taste and hear and smell your product.

The reason a brand like Specialized spends more money on domestic motocross racers and ebike racing than domestic bicycle racing is largely because of the number of human beings gathered in one place, at one time.

Unfortunately, the largest regular gatherings of humans in america for mtb races have become over-produced over-hyped races that are just for children!   The largest events for adults are hyper expensive group rides on dirt roads.

The dirt road group ride industry is OWNED by a non-endemic entity, a gym chain from Texas that slowly bought up a collection of the most outrageously expensive and stupid events in America.   And yes, Mazda is the title sponsor of their “90’s mtb racers would never enter something so lame Grand Prix”.

Simulcasting doesn’t provide the same sort of value as a robust national events infastructure, i guess is my point.

Ehh I don't see the review thing as an issue. A competent and experienced rider/reader is knowledgeable enough to read between the lines of reviews to get the info they need for their buying decision, and bikes are generally good enough these days where someone who is not will be just fine on any bike out there until they are more knowledgeable.

As far as racing goes, outside sponsorship would create more separation between mountain biking the sport and the actual mountain bike industry. I think this would make the sport more stable and likely more fruitful for the racers, race staff, and organizers. I think the sport is a long way from getting to that point, but I don't think it's impossible.

Yeah thats a good point - something I was thinking of bringing up too. We basically consume all of our press releases, tech info, reviews and "opinions" from the same sources - so how can they be properly impartial or unbiased? Especially when the "tech editors" clearly only learn most of their knowledge from marketing blurb or interviews with manufacturers, they will only ever repeat the narratives companies want them to (whether they realise they are doing that or not)

LTT is someone I follow a lot, and think of them as a good example of a mainstream outlet that presents products in a fair way - they don't go out of their way to trash things or tell people what they must buy, just present the facts they have in a way that lets people make their own decisions. I hardly ever get that feeling from bike websites - they too often try to flex how smart they are or sound cool for bashing on a popular product but that doesn't help much for the wider community. 

Whats that got to do with the topic? Not sure but I have a general feeling that the industry focuses all of its marketing at a very small niche that looks like the typical pinkbike member. In reality the sport is waaaaaaayyyy bigger than that and it needs to figure out better ways of accomodating those people if it wants to keeo growing or at least retain the ones that came along in the last few years

Red Bull has been a controversial brand.  If you don't know about Vorayuth “Boss” Yoovidhya, the Red Bull heir who probably killed a cop (and has eluded justice for over a decade) it's worth some googling.  But it's a popular brand, and...well, Rampage.  Crankworx.   

And yeah, it's probably a dangerous thing to drink.

Speaking of RB I kinda wonder what will happen now that Mateschitz passed away. Apparently there already have been some power struggles in the F1 team with Horner trying to take more control over the team.

Yeah I would believe that. Seems to be a common thing - UFC seems to be in the same boat, where it appears from the outside that the top guys are making obscene amounts of money so the "average" salary looks good but that tapers away very quickly and the bulk of the athletes at the bottom of the food chain are barely scraping by but powerless to do anything about it.

UFC is an interesting one, as relative the amount of money UFC makes, the fighters make almost 0.

Boxers make so much more money than UFC athletes its insane. The UFC has a stranglehold on who fights and where and how much they get paid, that any attempts to speak up/out are crushed and you lose all your income.

Im all for outside money, it's the only way we can grow the professional side of the sport. The truth is though, it will only come with better viewership. Which will only come with a better TV product and broadcasting. Which as I think we all agree, has gone backwards currently.

I think for the sport to move forward we should go to a 30 elite men model, and build a proper continental feeder series. The courses and logistics can't cope with 300 riders that feature at the European rounds of DHI currently.

This does mean a lot of riders get cut, but lets be honest, they're only 20+ riders competiting for the podium anyway. It makes no sense for some of the guys racing for top 30 positions, when we could have a continental series where they are racing for podiums there. Obviously this takes a huge amount of work and effort to build a 2nd series, but it could be integrated into some of the existing series on the continent and US.

Seeing as you mentioned road racing, Trek Factory Racing's road racing team, (as it's their team) has title sponsorship from Lidl......but only their road racing teams, not the MTB teams. I think that says a lot.......MTB obviously can't bring in the ROI for them. Until that happens, MTB is not going to attract that type of big money.