size matters...Or does it

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Fondaw
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Germantown, TN US
So this thread is a mix of things like so it may be a little confusing cause ill be jumping around. Ight, so for starters, i ride a 2017 or something Banshee rune V2. I think its a xl but when i bought it it said it was a large. I bought it off pink bike from a dude new to mtb beginning of summer. It was and is my first full sus. I love it but it feels a little small. See im 6'1 and the when im on that bike i look huge but it doesnt feel to small. the reach is a little short but otherwise its fine. How can i make it feel bigger? i was thinking about converting it to a mullet but it might raise my bb and the reach would be even shorter. I just got a 38mm rise bar from title so im gonna see how that feels. I mainly ask this because i ride enduro and want to race, and i need my bike to able to ride chunky stuff and feel bigger.
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sspomer
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Boise, ID US
9/29/2022 9:34am
what's current stem length? if your stem is short, you could opt up a bit there.
1
jasbushey
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Durango, CO US
9/29/2022 10:38am
I think for making something "bigger" you have a couple options. But it depends what you want to "make longer". Do you want to increase your seated position because you feel cramped, your standing position when descending, or your wheelbase for more stability. I.e. what feels small?

I think it would be good to know if it is an XL or L. Measuring the seat tube should tell you. if its close or less than 18" its a L and if it s 19" its a XL.

Also, do you have a 160 or 170mm fork?
How long is your seat? I.e. from bottom bracket to rails.

I've always found the Mad scientist webpage helpful for understanding changes to your bike. You can plug in a lot and see side by side changes.
https://madscientistmtb.com/bike-geometry-calculator/

A couple things on your mullet idea.
This will decrease your reach probably 15mm. You'd also need to get a new fork with likely 20mm less travel and a new wheel. Seems expensive for likely not much added stability IMO.

There are reach adjust, angle set options, and bigger stems and things such as adding spacers under the bars or moving your seat back, but understanding what feels "small" would help.
2
Fondaw
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9/29/2022 11:54am
sspomer wrote:
what's current stem length? if your stem is short, you could opt up a bit there.
At the moment its 50mm but i plan on going to 35. will be a little short but i have y stack hieght as llow as possible.
Fondaw
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Location
Germantown, TN US
9/29/2022 11:57am
jasbushey wrote:
I think for making something "bigger" you have a couple options. But it depends what you want to "make longer". Do you want to increase your...
I think for making something "bigger" you have a couple options. But it depends what you want to "make longer". Do you want to increase your seated position because you feel cramped, your standing position when descending, or your wheelbase for more stability. I.e. what feels small?

I think it would be good to know if it is an XL or L. Measuring the seat tube should tell you. if its close or less than 18" its a L and if it s 19" its a XL.

Also, do you have a 160 or 170mm fork?
How long is your seat? I.e. from bottom bracket to rails.

I've always found the Mad scientist webpage helpful for understanding changes to your bike. You can plug in a lot and see side by side changes.
https://madscientistmtb.com/bike-geometry-calculator/

A couple things on your mullet idea.
This will decrease your reach probably 15mm. You'd also need to get a new fork with likely 20mm less travel and a new wheel. Seems expensive for likely not much added stability IMO.

There are reach adjust, angle set options, and bigger stems and things such as adding spacers under the bars or moving your seat back, but understanding what feels "small" would help.
Thanks! so i have 160mm or travel front and rear. i want it to feel bigger decesnding.
millsr4
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Bellingham, WA US
9/29/2022 12:54pm
jasbushey wrote:
I think for making something "bigger" you have a couple options. But it depends what you want to "make longer". Do you want to increase your...
I think for making something "bigger" you have a couple options. But it depends what you want to "make longer". Do you want to increase your seated position because you feel cramped, your standing position when descending, or your wheelbase for more stability. I.e. what feels small?

I think it would be good to know if it is an XL or L. Measuring the seat tube should tell you. if its close or less than 18" its a L and if it s 19" its a XL.

Also, do you have a 160 or 170mm fork?
How long is your seat? I.e. from bottom bracket to rails.

I've always found the Mad scientist webpage helpful for understanding changes to your bike. You can plug in a lot and see side by side changes.
https://madscientistmtb.com/bike-geometry-calculator/

A couple things on your mullet idea.
This will decrease your reach probably 15mm. You'd also need to get a new fork with likely 20mm less travel and a new wheel. Seems expensive for likely not much added stability IMO.

There are reach adjust, angle set options, and bigger stems and things such as adding spacers under the bars or moving your seat back, but understanding what feels "small" would help.
That website is rad, thanks for sharing! It definitely beats using an angle finder app on my phone and measuring tape...
jasbushey
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Durango, CO US
9/29/2022 1:59pm
I think it would really help to know if it is an XL or an L. Theres a 25mm difference in reach on those. If you are on an XL a 480 reach isn't too far off say the Transition Sentinel in L (475) and XL (501), but it has a much higher stack. If you are on a L I could see that feeling small since it has a 455 reach, but an XL is pretty close to todays reach numbers for your size. I have a friend your size and he runs a 500mm reach bike with a stumpjumper. He just upped from a 463 reach and it looks a whole lot better on him.

Its tough to understand what you mean by you want it to feel bigger descending. I read into that more stability?

If so I would think you would want to increase the reach or the wheelbase. This would give you more stability in theory. A reach adjust of 6mm may do something, but it may not feel like much. I haven't personally used this and I doubt I could feel a 6mm difference much. As a bounce between bikes with different reaches I don't notice much unless its 10mm or more difference.

If you are looking for more stability I'd probably recommend doing a -1.5 or -2 angleset then run the bike in high setting. This would put you at a 63.5 to 64 head angle and increase your wheelbase 10-15mm. You'd lose some low speed stability and difficulty on tight switchbacks but gain in straight line speed. I suggest running in high as the BB is quite low already in low (338) and it would go even further down. You could also think about increasing your travel 10mm on the front with that -1.5 angleset and putting it in high. This would give you a bit more cush and a bit slacker. Your reach would be pretty similiar to now.

If you were to mullet, you'd need to reduce travel in the front. 140 would be weird paired with 160 in the rear, so lets just say its 150. In this case your reach would decrease -12mm stack up +10m, but the biggest issue I'd see with this is your Seat Angle would be 73.4 even in the high setting which would be quite slack. It just doesn't seem like a good bike to mullet, and personally I don't think it will make the bike that much faster.

Fondaw
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Location
Germantown, TN US
9/29/2022 2:12pm
jasbushey wrote:
I think it would really help to know if it is an XL or an L. Theres a 25mm difference in reach on those. If you...
I think it would really help to know if it is an XL or an L. Theres a 25mm difference in reach on those. If you are on an XL a 480 reach isn't too far off say the Transition Sentinel in L (475) and XL (501), but it has a much higher stack. If you are on a L I could see that feeling small since it has a 455 reach, but an XL is pretty close to todays reach numbers for your size. I have a friend your size and he runs a 500mm reach bike with a stumpjumper. He just upped from a 463 reach and it looks a whole lot better on him.

Its tough to understand what you mean by you want it to feel bigger descending. I read into that more stability?

If so I would think you would want to increase the reach or the wheelbase. This would give you more stability in theory. A reach adjust of 6mm may do something, but it may not feel like much. I haven't personally used this and I doubt I could feel a 6mm difference much. As a bounce between bikes with different reaches I don't notice much unless its 10mm or more difference.

If you are looking for more stability I'd probably recommend doing a -1.5 or -2 angleset then run the bike in high setting. This would put you at a 63.5 to 64 head angle and increase your wheelbase 10-15mm. You'd lose some low speed stability and difficulty on tight switchbacks but gain in straight line speed. I suggest running in high as the BB is quite low already in low (338) and it would go even further down. You could also think about increasing your travel 10mm on the front with that -1.5 angleset and putting it in high. This would give you a bit more cush and a bit slacker. Your reach would be pretty similiar to now.

If you were to mullet, you'd need to reduce travel in the front. 140 would be weird paired with 160 in the rear, so lets just say its 150. In this case your reach would decrease -12mm stack up +10m, but the biggest issue I'd see with this is your Seat Angle would be 73.4 even in the high setting which would be quite slack. It just doesn't seem like a good bike to mullet, and personally I don't think it will make the bike that much faster.

holy crap thanks for your input! what do you mean change the wheelbase? what would that require me to do? Whats an angle set? Also i wanna go with mathing title stem but it only goes to 35mm so would a longer wheel base even that out or should i go with a diffrent stem?
Fondaw
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Location
Germantown, TN US
9/29/2022 2:16pm
jasbushey wrote:
I think it would really help to know if it is an XL or an L. Theres a 25mm difference in reach on those. If you...
I think it would really help to know if it is an XL or an L. Theres a 25mm difference in reach on those. If you are on an XL a 480 reach isn't too far off say the Transition Sentinel in L (475) and XL (501), but it has a much higher stack. If you are on a L I could see that feeling small since it has a 455 reach, but an XL is pretty close to todays reach numbers for your size. I have a friend your size and he runs a 500mm reach bike with a stumpjumper. He just upped from a 463 reach and it looks a whole lot better on him.

Its tough to understand what you mean by you want it to feel bigger descending. I read into that more stability?

If so I would think you would want to increase the reach or the wheelbase. This would give you more stability in theory. A reach adjust of 6mm may do something, but it may not feel like much. I haven't personally used this and I doubt I could feel a 6mm difference much. As a bounce between bikes with different reaches I don't notice much unless its 10mm or more difference.

If you are looking for more stability I'd probably recommend doing a -1.5 or -2 angleset then run the bike in high setting. This would put you at a 63.5 to 64 head angle and increase your wheelbase 10-15mm. You'd lose some low speed stability and difficulty on tight switchbacks but gain in straight line speed. I suggest running in high as the BB is quite low already in low (338) and it would go even further down. You could also think about increasing your travel 10mm on the front with that -1.5 angleset and putting it in high. This would give you a bit more cush and a bit slacker. Your reach would be pretty similiar to now.

If you were to mullet, you'd need to reduce travel in the front. 140 would be weird paired with 160 in the rear, so lets just say its 150. In this case your reach would decrease -12mm stack up +10m, but the biggest issue I'd see with this is your Seat Angle would be 73.4 even in the high setting which would be quite slack. It just doesn't seem like a good bike to mullet, and personally I don't think it will make the bike that much faster.

Fondaw wrote:
holy crap thanks for your input! what do you mean change the wheelbase? what would that require me to do? Whats an angle set? Also i...
holy crap thanks for your input! what do you mean change the wheelbase? what would that require me to do? Whats an angle set? Also i wanna go with mathing title stem but it only goes to 35mm so would a longer wheel base even that out or should i go with a diffrent stem?
oh and i just measured, its a large.
jasbushey
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Location
Durango, CO US
9/29/2022 2:58pm
If you feel that your bike feels short, I would not recommend decreasing the the length of the stem from 50mm. That will make the bike feel even shorter, and it will likely be twitchier steering. I might recommend going longer at 60mm.

An angleset is a headset that changes the stock head angle on your bike. So your Rune has a 64.5 or 65 head angle based on high or low. Adding a 2 degree angleset would change the head angle in the high position to 63.5 degrees. In turn this would increase your wheelbase by putting your front wheel further in front of you 16mm. But it won't make the handlebars be further in front of you, that can only be done with a bigger stem. For $75 - $100 anglesets can be a pretty big change in a bike. It has negatives though in that it may make you feel the big is sluggish turning in mellower terrain. If you're racing enduro that might help you with flat out speed. Based on your geometry I'd say a 1.5 could be a good idea to do as most "enduro" bikes these days sit at 63.5-64.5 and in the high would put you in that range.

Works components makes one and wolftooth. I've had good luck with both and have both currently installed on separate bikes.
Wolftooth has 1 and 2 degree. https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/collections/headset-related/product…
Works has 1, 1.5, 2 degree. https://www.workscomponents.co.uk/15-degree-ec44-zs56-angle-headset---t…

The thing to note is that you have a 44/56 headset. This means you'd need an EC44/ZS56.

Now I hate to say this, but the frame may just be too small for you with a large. Its 455mm reach is comparable to most mediums today. And my 6" + friends have all enjoyed bikes with 500mm reach. But you could try one of the two options for a cheaper option than purchasing a different bike.

Speed is more the pilot, not the bike. Richie rude is 5'11 and rides a 460mm reach bike and Jack Moir is around 6' and rides a 460 reach as well. I personally like a bit smaller reach bike as it lets me move it around a bit more. But I'm shorter than you so its not comparable numbers.
Fondaw
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Location
Germantown, TN US
9/29/2022 7:31pm
jasbushey wrote:
If you feel that your bike feels short, I would not recommend decreasing the the length of the stem from 50mm. That will make the bike...
If you feel that your bike feels short, I would not recommend decreasing the the length of the stem from 50mm. That will make the bike feel even shorter, and it will likely be twitchier steering. I might recommend going longer at 60mm.

An angleset is a headset that changes the stock head angle on your bike. So your Rune has a 64.5 or 65 head angle based on high or low. Adding a 2 degree angleset would change the head angle in the high position to 63.5 degrees. In turn this would increase your wheelbase by putting your front wheel further in front of you 16mm. But it won't make the handlebars be further in front of you, that can only be done with a bigger stem. For $75 - $100 anglesets can be a pretty big change in a bike. It has negatives though in that it may make you feel the big is sluggish turning in mellower terrain. If you're racing enduro that might help you with flat out speed. Based on your geometry I'd say a 1.5 could be a good idea to do as most "enduro" bikes these days sit at 63.5-64.5 and in the high would put you in that range.

Works components makes one and wolftooth. I've had good luck with both and have both currently installed on separate bikes.
Wolftooth has 1 and 2 degree. https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/collections/headset-related/product…
Works has 1, 1.5, 2 degree. https://www.workscomponents.co.uk/15-degree-ec44-zs56-angle-headset---t…

The thing to note is that you have a 44/56 headset. This means you'd need an EC44/ZS56.

Now I hate to say this, but the frame may just be too small for you with a large. Its 455mm reach is comparable to most mediums today. And my 6" + friends have all enjoyed bikes with 500mm reach. But you could try one of the two options for a cheaper option than purchasing a different bike.

Speed is more the pilot, not the bike. Richie rude is 5'11 and rides a 460mm reach bike and Jack Moir is around 6' and rides a 460 reach as well. I personally like a bit smaller reach bike as it lets me move it around a bit more. But I'm shorter than you so its not comparable numbers.
Thanks so much for your advice, for me the bike feels amazing! especialy with wide and high bars. See i live in Memphis Tn where the highest elavation may be 70 feet. so having a smaller bike is nice for the many dirtjump and skateparks. Might try to go with a slopduro bike build.

What is the sizing for the angle adjusters? also, i lied about my hieght, im 6'1 so again, the bike doesnt feel to small.

do you know any really good stems for 50mm i know like all them but i dont know how they compare. Also thanks for letting me know about Moir and Richie, been wondering about that for awhile.

Last, Im kinda hoping my frame breaks so i can get a new frmae and just transfer parts lol.

Thanks agian for your input.
Fondaw
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Joined
5/31/2022
Location
Germantown, TN US
9/29/2022 7:33pm
jasbushey wrote:
If you feel that your bike feels short, I would not recommend decreasing the the length of the stem from 50mm. That will make the bike...
If you feel that your bike feels short, I would not recommend decreasing the the length of the stem from 50mm. That will make the bike feel even shorter, and it will likely be twitchier steering. I might recommend going longer at 60mm.

An angleset is a headset that changes the stock head angle on your bike. So your Rune has a 64.5 or 65 head angle based on high or low. Adding a 2 degree angleset would change the head angle in the high position to 63.5 degrees. In turn this would increase your wheelbase by putting your front wheel further in front of you 16mm. But it won't make the handlebars be further in front of you, that can only be done with a bigger stem. For $75 - $100 anglesets can be a pretty big change in a bike. It has negatives though in that it may make you feel the big is sluggish turning in mellower terrain. If you're racing enduro that might help you with flat out speed. Based on your geometry I'd say a 1.5 could be a good idea to do as most "enduro" bikes these days sit at 63.5-64.5 and in the high would put you in that range.

Works components makes one and wolftooth. I've had good luck with both and have both currently installed on separate bikes.
Wolftooth has 1 and 2 degree. https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/collections/headset-related/product…
Works has 1, 1.5, 2 degree. https://www.workscomponents.co.uk/15-degree-ec44-zs56-angle-headset---t…

The thing to note is that you have a 44/56 headset. This means you'd need an EC44/ZS56.

Now I hate to say this, but the frame may just be too small for you with a large. Its 455mm reach is comparable to most mediums today. And my 6" + friends have all enjoyed bikes with 500mm reach. But you could try one of the two options for a cheaper option than purchasing a different bike.

Speed is more the pilot, not the bike. Richie rude is 5'11 and rides a 460mm reach bike and Jack Moir is around 6' and rides a 460 reach as well. I personally like a bit smaller reach bike as it lets me move it around a bit more. But I'm shorter than you so its not comparable numbers.
Fondaw wrote:
Thanks so much for your advice, for me the bike feels amazing! especialy with wide and high bars. See i live in Memphis Tn where the...
Thanks so much for your advice, for me the bike feels amazing! especialy with wide and high bars. See i live in Memphis Tn where the highest elavation may be 70 feet. so having a smaller bike is nice for the many dirtjump and skateparks. Might try to go with a slopduro bike build.

What is the sizing for the angle adjusters? also, i lied about my hieght, im 6'1 so again, the bike doesnt feel to small.

do you know any really good stems for 50mm i know like all them but i dont know how they compare. Also thanks for letting me know about Moir and Richie, been wondering about that for awhile.

Last, Im kinda hoping my frame breaks so i can get a new frmae and just transfer parts lol.

Thanks agian for your input.
also, i may need to check the size again. when i measure the reach i get 19 inches but when i measure the seat tube i get 18...
Fondaw
Posts
13
Joined
5/31/2022
Location
Germantown, TN US
9/29/2022 8:14pm
jasbushey wrote:
If you feel that your bike feels short, I would not recommend decreasing the the length of the stem from 50mm. That will make the bike...
If you feel that your bike feels short, I would not recommend decreasing the the length of the stem from 50mm. That will make the bike feel even shorter, and it will likely be twitchier steering. I might recommend going longer at 60mm.

An angleset is a headset that changes the stock head angle on your bike. So your Rune has a 64.5 or 65 head angle based on high or low. Adding a 2 degree angleset would change the head angle in the high position to 63.5 degrees. In turn this would increase your wheelbase by putting your front wheel further in front of you 16mm. But it won't make the handlebars be further in front of you, that can only be done with a bigger stem. For $75 - $100 anglesets can be a pretty big change in a bike. It has negatives though in that it may make you feel the big is sluggish turning in mellower terrain. If you're racing enduro that might help you with flat out speed. Based on your geometry I'd say a 1.5 could be a good idea to do as most "enduro" bikes these days sit at 63.5-64.5 and in the high would put you in that range.

Works components makes one and wolftooth. I've had good luck with both and have both currently installed on separate bikes.
Wolftooth has 1 and 2 degree. https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/collections/headset-related/product…
Works has 1, 1.5, 2 degree. https://www.workscomponents.co.uk/15-degree-ec44-zs56-angle-headset---t…

The thing to note is that you have a 44/56 headset. This means you'd need an EC44/ZS56.

Now I hate to say this, but the frame may just be too small for you with a large. Its 455mm reach is comparable to most mediums today. And my 6" + friends have all enjoyed bikes with 500mm reach. But you could try one of the two options for a cheaper option than purchasing a different bike.

Speed is more the pilot, not the bike. Richie rude is 5'11 and rides a 460mm reach bike and Jack Moir is around 6' and rides a 460 reach as well. I personally like a bit smaller reach bike as it lets me move it around a bit more. But I'm shorter than you so its not comparable numbers.
Fondaw wrote:
Thanks so much for your advice, for me the bike feels amazing! especialy with wide and high bars. See i live in Memphis Tn where the...
Thanks so much for your advice, for me the bike feels amazing! especialy with wide and high bars. See i live in Memphis Tn where the highest elavation may be 70 feet. so having a smaller bike is nice for the many dirtjump and skateparks. Might try to go with a slopduro bike build.

What is the sizing for the angle adjusters? also, i lied about my hieght, im 6'1 so again, the bike doesnt feel to small.

do you know any really good stems for 50mm i know like all them but i dont know how they compare. Also thanks for letting me know about Moir and Richie, been wondering about that for awhile.

Last, Im kinda hoping my frame breaks so i can get a new frmae and just transfer parts lol.

Thanks agian for your input.
Fondaw wrote:
also, i may need to check the size again. when i measure the reach i get 19 inches but when i measure the seat tube i...
also, i may need to check the size again. when i measure the reach i get 19 inches but when i measure the seat tube i get 18...
im so confused. i measured again, but this time i also measured the reach. i got 19-21 inches for reach some how(bb to headtube so you know i know) but i measured and got 17.7 inches for seatube length. im so utterly confused.
jasbushey
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Location
Durango, CO US
9/30/2022 8:09am Edited Date/Time 9/30/2022 8:11am
I think its difficult to measure reach, since its a horizontal line from the bottom bracket to the middle of the headtube. That's why I said measure the bottom bracket to the seatube top. Banshee states that the seat tube on a L i s 17.7" and the xl is 19.3". I'd think you'd measure from middle BB to the top seat post. It also says the wheelbase is 47.6" with L and 48.5" with XL. that might help and be easier to measure.
https://www.bansheebikes.com/past-model-archive will give you the geo.

The sizing on the angleset is based on your head tube. head tubes have an upper and lower cup. Banshee runs a 44mm / 56mm tapered headtube. This uses cups and so you would look for an angleset with 44/56. There are two types of cups, EC (extended cup) and ZS (zero stack). So youd preferably go with a ZS (zero stack) on the lower 56. So it would be EC44/ZS56
here is Works -1.5 https://www.workscomponents.co.uk/15-degree-ec44-zs56-angle-headset---t…
Works -2 https://www.workscomponents.co.uk/20-degree-ec44-zs56-angle-headset---t…
Wolftooth -2 https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/products/wolf-tooth-2-deg-geoshift-… (need EC44/ZS56)

You'll want a shop to install this for you unless you have experience installing headsets and the right tools.

As for stems, I use renthal apex and its lasted me 5+ years. I probably couldn't tell the difference between different brands of stems though. I've never thought of a stem as a major part of the equation of a bike, just the length.



1
10/1/2022 11:52pm
I have a similar frame - Large Banshee Spitfire v2 - and have been trying to make it 'bigger' too.
So far I've fitted a - 2° Works Components headset, the "long" dropouts, a 50mm rise bar, and a 65mm stem.
Each of these made some difference, all positive except the stem, which changed the handling in a way I didn't like.
None of these changed the reach (technically the headset shortened it slightly, but the fork tilt brought some back...) so the bike is still too small.

Try the suggestions you have, remember the hypotenuse of Stack & Reach is the distance between your hands and feet, but unless you're close, or less picky than me, the frame will still be too small.

The best advice I can give is to avoid riding a bigger bike. Ignorance is bliss.

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