Should World Cup Downhill Racers Have Permanent Numbers Assigned?

sspomer
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Edited Date/Time 7/18/2022 12:12pm


Lots of discussion today about not being able to recognize riders in Vital RAW. When rider kits (and even bike colors) change every world cup race, it can be tough to identify the racers as they blast by in a dust cloud or when covered in mud.

right now, new number plates are assigned to riders at each race based on their UCI world cup overall ranking. so greg minnaar might have been #6 last week and this week he's #3 because he moved up in points.

what if world cup went the MX route where riders have a permanent racing number assigned to them for the duration of their career (the only exception being #1 plate left open for the currently-ranked number 1 racer in each class).

if you saw the #4 coming down the track, you'd know it was Greg Minnaar. if you saw the 8, you'd know it was laurie greenland (or whatever). like with moto, jerseys/gear etc could embrace the number, market it and their identity as a racer would be solidified (Chad Reed and twotwo 22 for example).

if plate numbers went permanent, is there a lottery or something to determine numbers for the first time (i don't know how it works in moto)?

maybe permanent numbers make race administration too difficult since DH racers drop in a particular order, not all at once?

what do you think? any other suggestions?

Poll

World Cup DH Racer Numbers Should Be

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TimBud
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7/15/2022 10:27am
Permanent during their Elite career could work.
There's a bloody lot of them though, so it would take some admin by the UCI
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7/15/2022 10:27am
Don't love the idea of permanent numbers. The idea of keeping numbers consistent through each season seems more reasonable.

It would also help if teams weren't switching kits quite so often. Between practice kits, race kits, and special-edition kits that are sometimes only used for one weekend, I often can't easily tell what team (let alone which racer) I'm looking at unless there's a clear view of the bike, or it's somebody with a RedBull/Monster/etc. helmet (RIP Greg's Clif Bar helmets...) Seems like keeping consistent jerseys/kits throughout the season would make it easier to identify riders than having to re-learn who's wearing what color every other race.

Other people might love the one-off kits, IDK. Just my opinion.
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jonkranked
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7/15/2022 10:28am
possibly unpopular opinion - what if riders used the same style/design kit for the duration of the season?
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7
7/15/2022 10:29am
Merchandise and branding wise permanent numbers are a good thing for the riders themselves too. But to be fair as long as there’s more than any 30 numbers to be given out next year that fees like a godsend at this point 😞

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7/15/2022 11:20am
I like permanent numbers, but I come from moto so….

They could just give them the number they finish with this year. Or let them pick, starting with first in points, then second and so on.
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jonkranked
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7/15/2022 12:00pm
if it were to be permanent for a riders career - would the number retire when the rider retires?
csermonet
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7/15/2022 2:03pm Edited Date/Time 7/15/2022 2:04pm
jonkranked wrote:
if it were to be permanent for a riders career - would the number retire when the rider retires?
I think MX votes on retiring a number if a rider was significant enough to warrant it, but typically no they don't retire the number when the rider retires.

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Salespunk
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7/15/2022 2:19pm Edited Date/Time 7/15/2022 2:21pm
I think the number is only "retired" for a short amount of time, if at all in MX. For example Carmichael was running #2 which is now Webb's permanent number.

BTW I would like to see either permanent or annual numbers. Would make it much easier to identify riders on the track. I don't want to see a limit placed on their gear such as only one style jersey/pant setup. Adds to the races when we get to see new kits.
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just6979
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7/15/2022 2:47pm
If by ranking last season, what do new-to-elite riders get?

Why bother leaving #1 open? When the leader changes does the old leader go back to their normal number and the new one gets the #1? Isn't that also confusing a bit?
Falcon
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7/15/2022 2:48pm
In the past, motocross issued season numbers. The riders wore a number that corresponded to last year's championship ranking. (The champ wore #1, second in points took #2, etc.) I like that system, but don't know if it would be fair in UCI rankings. I'm not sure how/if they tally season points.

Sspomer, the top 20 MX riders earn a permanent number based on their performance for the previous season. They can retain it if they earn at least "X" number of points each season. Champions may choose a single-digit number. Also, at one time riders who earned the right to a permanent number were allowed to pick any number to be their permanent digits; that's how Mike Alessi got #800, Chad Reed scored #22, and Ken Roczen has #94. That's not the case anymore, but in typical sanctioning body style, some guys still get to choose. (Chase Sexton gets to keep #23, for instance.) If any rider retires or fails to earn the minimum number of points for any given year, the number is up for grabs to any qualified rider (those among the top 20 in points, in order, who do not already have a permanent number.)
Oh yeah, also - any permanent number holder can ask for a different permanent number if he's eligible and the number is available.
Easy, right? Blink


I will concede that having a permanent number does help with a rider's identity and marketability.

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7/15/2022 3:33pm
Salespunk wrote:
I think the number is only "retired" for a short amount of time, if at all in MX. For example Carmichael was running #2 which is...
I think the number is only "retired" for a short amount of time, if at all in MX. For example Carmichael was running #2 which is now Webb's permanent number.

BTW I would like to see either permanent or annual numbers. Would make it much easier to identify riders on the track. I don't want to see a limit placed on their gear such as only one style jersey/pant setup. Adds to the races when we get to see new kits.
Carmichael era el 4 , el 2 era Jermy Mc grath 😉
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rusty
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7/15/2022 4:37pm Edited Date/Time 7/15/2022 4:38pm
Rider's names like they did in 2001?

📷 Malcolm Fearon



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brash
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7/15/2022 4:50pm
The disrespect to Jeremy "showtime" McGrath is unbelievable lol. He's the real Number 2 in my eyes, not Villapoto, not Webb.

I think it should go off last seasons standings up to top 20 (protected) and that's it.

Although i'm that sad I can just tell who a top teir rider is now with whatever kit or helmet they might have on and can tell by riding style alone. Wow I'm a loser lol.
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7/15/2022 5:38pm
You can tell who loic is thru two companies gear. No number even when he was one. Gwin, Finn, and others come to mind too. That said for guys on stock or boring clothing it can be much harder to differentiate.
sspomer
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7/15/2022 5:57pm
@falcon, thanks for the specifics on how it all works for mx!
deeboy
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7/15/2022 6:11pm Edited Date/Time 7/15/2022 7:25pm
It works in BMX Race, UCI have a permanent number system, where a defined set of riders who are the top of the sport can be allowed a semi-permanent number. There is a certain set at the top that ranked rider can ride them if they choose.
So the MTB Series podium is 5, so why not reserve those five numbers for riders that want to ride their ranking & say riders in the top 30 in the previous year are allowed to choose an annual number.

Riders continuing on each year can hold their number as first right to hold it. As long as you stay in the top 30.

But any logical rules could be applied to make it work


7 UCI International Elite Number System
6.1.094 TheUCIInternationalEliteNumberSystem(formerlyknownasthePermanentCareerNumber system) is for Men Elite & Women Elite category only. This system allows the top riders determined as defined below in article 6.1.095 to choose a specific number for themselves which they have the exclusive right to use for the entire Olympic Quadrennial for which it was awarded. Elite World Champions and Olympic Champions shall have the right to use this number for their entire Elite career.
7/15/2022 7:09pm
A number would make the rider more easily identified, therefore more likelyhood for that ride to build a following. More exposure for the sponsors etc. I don’t see how this is a bad idea. JS7. RV2. James built a whole brand around his number….
rugbyred
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7/15/2022 8:07pm
When did teams stop having to submit their jersey design and colors for the season? I remember that being part of the team registration along with riders names? Why isn’t that done anymore?
Maybe teams/riders could be allowed a one off kit for one race of their choosing besides Worlds?
jonkranked
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7/15/2022 9:06pm
rugbyred wrote:
When did teams stop having to submit their jersey design and colors for the season? I remember that being part of the team registration along with...
When did teams stop having to submit their jersey design and colors for the season? I remember that being part of the team registration along with riders names? Why isn’t that done anymore?
Maybe teams/riders could be allowed a one off kit for one race of their choosing besides Worlds?
i remember a bit of a kerfuffle when sc syndicate lost their trade team status due to some noncompliance issue with the jersey design rules
7/16/2022 4:21am
Eastern States Cup in the US does the permanent number each season. Top 30 (I think) from previous season get first pick at numbers then it's first come, first serve after that.
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sspomer
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7/16/2022 6:46am
@georgeryan83 - that's awesome ESC already does this
clubby
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7/16/2022 9:06am
Idea works for mass start races, where you need to pick out riders in a bunch but is it really necessary when you've one rider being shown on track at a time? Manage fine without it in ski racing for example.
That said, I could get behind the annual number idea based on finish in previous years series. New riders assigned a random number at first race and keep it for the whole series.Series leader keeps same number but given a different coloured plate, maybe also the winner of the previous race making it easier to see who's on a roll?
yzedf
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7/16/2022 12:33pm
VR46 gear but it’s for DH. Sounds good to me!
#434
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7/16/2022 2:12pm
I‘m new to all this MTB stuff and love watching the DH world cup. Permanent numbers would help the casual fan to identify the riders. US MX is a good example. Past Champs can choose a single digit career number and the current champ has to run 1.
bizutch
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7/16/2022 5:22pm
I just like the prior year's overall finish being your # plate for Top 80. Then the rest of the field is issued a # for the race #firstcomefirstserve each WC. As for the racers, it's their team manager's faults for not realizing we need a consistent marker to ID their rider
Big Bird
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7/16/2022 8:09pm
#434 wrote:
I‘m new to all this MTB stuff and love watching the DH world cup. Permanent numbers would help the casual fan to identify the riders. US...
I‘m new to all this MTB stuff and love watching the DH world cup. Permanent numbers would help the casual fan to identify the riders. US MX is a good example. Past Champs can choose a single digit career number and the current champ has to run 1.
Easy for you to say #434. You've already got a permanent number.
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matt2000
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7/17/2022 4:58am
Permanent number for the year OR consistent kit…
I am not a casual watcher, and yet it is hard to distinguish riders on the vital videos for example ( cf the trek team). I can recognize loris riding style for exmaple, but the others … impossible for me! So the brands get full recognition, but once again at tge expense of tge individual rider.
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jawlor
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7/17/2022 6:35am Edited Date/Time 7/17/2022 7:24am
Interestingly, in 2007 (or 2008, or both) the UCI allowed riders with top 20 (I think) from the previous year's overall to choose their own number for the whole season. Greg Minnaar blow running the number 27 plate for the whole year.

I remember that year he had a roulette table painted on his helmet with the winning number being 27 on it. I remember he had this theory that 27 would always win at roulette.

Does anyone else remember any details about this set up by the UCI or why they discontinued in after that year?




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jawlor
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7/17/2022 7:21am Edited Date/Time 7/17/2022 7:51am
It was indeed 2007 and 2008. I found the image below by Hoshi Yoshida of Greg on his Honda in 2007 running the number 27 plate.

Does anyone know why these are the only years they had this system in place?





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Primoz
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7/17/2022 12:04pm
Last years numbers had to be a thing in the Sam Hill Specialized era, as he ran #1 on the back of his jersey while Brendan ran #8. Unless the plate on the bike changed with every race then, but that just makes it weird.

With a field that's as big and as fluid as DH WC I don't think permanent numbers are the right solution. How many riders are there in MX?

F1 used to do it 1-21 (skipping 13) for 20 cars, but a few years back changed to permanent numbers. That's a bit easier as there are only 20 cars and the field is not as fluid as DH is (the season's roster is mostly set, barring COVID and the like).

Last years finishing position would make sense as the riders could run that number on the jerseys and, like mentioned, would make them more recognisable over the season. And last years champ can run the #1 plate. Currently the series leader does that, but with numbers set for the season, the season leader can run a yellow plate to distinguish her/him from the field.

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