Handlebar Roll

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Alex1
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Alex1
Edited Date/Time 11/6/2019 4:33pm
Hey guys!
In previous episodes of 'Dialed' they had mentioned that bar height can affect handling despite having the correct fork settings. I consider that bar roll can also affect things a bit. What roll do you suggest is right? I know that in motocross they prefer their roll aligned with the stanchions of the fork. Can this work with mtb's as well?
Thanks in advance.
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Big Bird
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Big Bird 8/31/2019 11:05pm
8/31/2019 11:05pm Edited Date/Time 8/31/2019 11:12pm
I would say that no the roll itself has no influence. But bar roll does move ones center of gravity. I like 'em steep, which weights the front wheel more. Some like 'em rolled back which puts more weight on the rear. Dials must turn towards balance. One could roll back on a long stem or roll forward on a short one and make no difference.
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Alex1
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Alex1 9/1/2019 6:50am
9/1/2019 6:50am Edited Date/Time 9/1/2019 7:14am
Big Bird wrote:
I would say that no the roll itself has no influence. But bar roll does move ones center of gravity. I like 'em steep, which weights...
I would say that no the roll itself has no influence. But bar roll does move ones center of gravity. I like 'em steep, which weights the front wheel more. Some like 'em rolled back which puts more weight on the rear. Dials must turn towards balance. One could roll back on a long stem or roll forward on a short one and make no difference.
I run a renthal bar/stem combo (fatbar/apex) and until recently I had them set on position #2 of the markings. Some friends with moto background suggested that my bars where too forward and that was the reason that I was getting beaten and having a stiff neck. I am 175cm tall (5.8) and ride a bike with 432mm of reach, a 50mm stem and a 760mm bar.
However, I decided to try rolling them back a bit, so I set at marking #1. I immediately felt less hand pressure and was more relaxed rather tensed that I was before. I rode like that for a while and thought; why not try bringing them at zero? After all I believe that this is intended to have the most neutral feel and correspond to the upsweep and backsweep numbers of the bar, right?
I have only done one ride like this and I think it is kinda better but not 100% sure. I want to put more hours to it and form an opinion.. Overall, bringing em back a little has helped me improve balance, traction and steering.
iceman2058
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iceman2058 9/1/2019 7:21am
9/1/2019 7:21am
There is certainly some wiggle-room for personal preferences here, but we made this handy guide a few years ago which helps explain the basic concepts and what to look for when setting up your cockpit: How-To Cockpit Set-Up.
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Alex1
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Alex1 9/3/2019 6:26am
9/3/2019 6:26am
iceman2058 wrote:
There is certainly some wiggle-room for personal preferences here, but we made this handy guide a few years ago which helps explain the basic concepts and...
There is certainly some wiggle-room for personal preferences here, but we made this handy guide a few years ago which helps explain the basic concepts and what to look for when setting up your cockpit: How-To Cockpit Set-Up.
A very useful guide indeed! I recall reading it when it was first published on the site.
One quick observation to make; why don't all manufacturers mark a specific point on their bar/stem so that everyone could know where to set and get their suggested sweep numbers instead of going through all this fuss. It would just make things easier for everyone! Smile
Mwood
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Mwood 9/3/2019 9:21am
9/3/2019 9:21am
iceman2058 wrote:
There is certainly some wiggle-room for personal preferences here, but we made this handy guide a few years ago which helps explain the basic concepts and...
There is certainly some wiggle-room for personal preferences here, but we made this handy guide a few years ago which helps explain the basic concepts and what to look for when setting up your cockpit: How-To Cockpit Set-Up.
Alex1 wrote:
A very useful guide indeed! I recall reading it when it was first published on the site. One quick observation to make; why don't all manufacturers...
A very useful guide indeed! I recall reading it when it was first published on the site.
One quick observation to make; why don't all manufacturers mark a specific point on their bar/stem so that everyone could know where to set and get their suggested sweep numbers instead of going through all this fuss. It would just make things easier for everyone! Smile
It drives me nuts to try and adjust a bar with no tick marks to adjust roll. Trying to get my cockpit better set up on my Pivot 5.5 and the pivot branded bars have no marking, come on Chirs Cocalis!
On my previous bike, I had bars with a lot of backsweep and that seemed to work wonders on my wrists.
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Democho
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Democho 9/3/2019 9:30am
9/3/2019 9:30am
Definitely makes a big difference! I have my renthal bars at 0.5 on the tick marks. I also have friends who run theirs at 2. I think a lot of it depends on your riding style, too. I feel that I ride over the front a lot naturally, so if I roll mine to 2 I also struggle with shoulder/hand fatigue. I ran mine at 0 for a long time. I think bar height,stem length, and bar roll are super super important but can vary from person to person depending on the bike (how long the reach is to begin with) and their riding style.

FYI I'm also 5ft8 with 760 bars. I have a 40mm stem. That 50mm might weight your front end even further. Shortening that up could also be an option.
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Alex1
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Alex1 9/4/2019 5:10am
9/4/2019 5:10am Edited Date/Time 9/4/2019 5:12am
@Democho yeah, I agree with your thoughts. Don't forget fork settings too..
As for the 40mm stem, I have tried it and doesn't benefit my riding. I feel more comfortable on the 50mm. Thanks for the suggestion though.
SB14
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SB14 9/5/2019 10:30am
9/5/2019 10:30am
I went from a pretty forward roll, b/c it thought it made my riding more agressive, but then i tried to roll i back to a more normal setting, and it was way better! Felt like it was easier to look Ahead and was less hard on my hands.
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Curtis Gillen 10/18/2019 8:59am
10/18/2019 8:59am
I run the Fasst Company Flexx Enduro bars. I set them up so my forearms are in the same plane/angle as the suspension pivot of the bars, which from the side looks like the are rolled really far forward from other bars. On a rigid bar I wouldn't normally run them like that, but with these bars it feels very natural. I may need to take a picture to illustrate, but in short it has me second guessing my setup on other bikes, where I generally have bars rolled back to nearly level on the top.
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JVP
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JVP 10/18/2019 9:35am
10/18/2019 9:35am
Play around with it, lots of personal preference in here, and it needs to match to your bike fit and body. I found that bars rolled too far forward creates problem.

I had elbow soreness for 2 years, mostly due to trail building, but riding was aggravating it. Sadly had to take a year off of any real building, and also rolled my bars way back. To compensate for the shorter reach of the roll back, I put on a 10mm longer stem (50mm). Loving this setup! But it took me a couple months of playing around.

My next bars will be at least 12* backsweep.

If your neck is getting sore, rolling the bars back, higher stack height or going with narrower bars could help. All these changes get you more upright. so your neck is less bent. Make one small change, ride it a while, do another small change.
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Alex1
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Alex1 11/3/2019 11:49am
11/3/2019 11:49am Edited Date/Time 11/4/2019 3:57am
Hey guys!
It's been a couple of months since my last post. Since then I have ridden about 600km (~350miles) of trails and participated in a couple of enduro races too. During this period I had set the #0 marking of the handlebar with the first line on the stem. I also dropped the overall stack a bit by removing a 5mm spacer under the stem.
I came to find that these two adjustments have improved handling and traction and made me feel much more confident. I now ride this setting at all times.

Here are some of my conclusions when rolling bars backward:

1) elbows drop allowing for a more natural hand position with less pressure in the palms,
2) therefore less tension on the trapezius & rhomboid muscles that help to avoid neck and upper back soreness,
3) better handling in corners (especially while descending)
4) the "speed tuck" is easily executed (the torso stays parallel to the ground while restricting the head coming in front of the stem)
5) center of gravity is kept in the middle of the wheelbase right above the BB providing balanced traction (optimum front to rear weight ratio)

What do you think? Please share your thoughts Smile
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Alex1
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Alex1 11/6/2019 4:33pm
11/6/2019 4:33pm Edited Date/Time 11/6/2019 4:40pm
Here's an interesting quote I found on Pinkbike from Ian Collins - Cycle Products Manager of Renthal.

"The position of the first and second bends relative to each other and the central clamping section is crucial. The ideal positioning is defined with the handlebar in its neutral position, i.e.; orientated with 5 degrees of up sweep and 7 degrees of back sweep. In this position, the first and second bends should be in line, in the vertical plane, with the center line of the stem clamp section. This results in a handlebar that has a very neutral feel if you roll your bars forward or, more commonly, backward"
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