Great Concessions in Mountain Biking

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matmattmatthew
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matmattmatthew
Edited Date/Time 7/10/2022 12:35pm
First off, Credit where credit is due, the genisis for this subject was from the article : Review:2023 Santa Cruz Hightower where none other than the head robot himself said

"RS has the exclusive patent on sag markings on the shock stanchion, which is extra helpful on the lower link-driven VPP bikes. With the shaft of the shock mostly concealed in the shock tunnel of the new Santa Cruz frames, it's really hard to measure sag with a ruler."

This got me thinking about other concessions/modifications/compromises that have been made with frames or parts.

The first that comes to mind is all the frames that required remote reservoir shocks because of the suspension/frame design



Another was when 29er DH bikes first started getting popular and some required seats which cut-outs so the tire wouldn't buzz. The Pivot Phoenix even came spec'd with a saddle to accomplish this:




Another one that I think is still used to this day is Knock Block from Trek. Are they the only ones doing this?





So what other concessions/modifications have companies done over the years? For better or worse.
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Fred_Pop
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Fred_Pop 7/2/2022 10:44pm
7/2/2022 10:44pm
Those are just examples of bad frame design.

It's rare to see remote reservoir frames nowadays.

You could run a steeper seat angle and not have that problem. The old Scott Gambler was a notorious with requiring XC height saddle in order to avoid bottom out.

The new Treks no longer have them if I am not mistaken.
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gibbon
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gibbon 7/3/2022 12:12am
7/3/2022 12:12am
The new Treks no longer have them if I am not mistaken

You are.
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boozed
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boozed 7/3/2022 1:39am
7/3/2022 1:39am
Trek isn't the only manufacturer with a steering limit device, although I don't think the others are internal like the knock block. I wish I could remember who else uses them, I thought it was Canyon but I can't see it on any of their current MTB range. That or they came to their senses and dropped it.
matmattmatthew
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matmattmatthew 7/3/2022 6:12am
7/3/2022 6:12am
Another example popped into my head this morning. Back when Sram released their first 1x system, you saw multiple bike companies suddenly stop designing frames to accommodate front derailleurs. The one that sticks out to me (mostly because I owned it), was the process 111 from Kona. It was such a big deal at the time, that the PB review of the bike mentions no front derailleur 5 times.

"The 111's rear end is so compact, with the wheel tucked up close to the front triangle, that the lack of clearance means no front derailleur can ever be fitted to the bike. That's right, Kona has sacrificed the front derailleur in the name of geometry, meaning that the bike will always utilize a single-ring drivetrain."

Possibly one of the few concessions that ended up being a good thing.
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brash
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brash 7/3/2022 4:35pm
7/3/2022 4:35pm
One that comes to mind is the 14-19 Specialized demo 8's

special tool required for the BB removal
135mm rear hub spacing on a DH bike lol
Progressive as a limp noodle
Prone to snapping shock shafts (eventually came rose jointed, which would pop out of the eyelet)
would crack by looking at them

BUT OH SO GOD DAMN SEXY TO LOOK AT!

If you didn't ride it, it's the perfect bike lol.
matmattmatthew
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matmattmatthew 7/3/2022 5:05pm
7/3/2022 5:05pm
brash wrote:
One that comes to mind is the 14-19 Specialized demo 8's special tool required for the BB removal 135mm rear hub spacing on a DH bike...
One that comes to mind is the 14-19 Specialized demo 8's

special tool required for the BB removal
135mm rear hub spacing on a DH bike lol
Progressive as a limp noodle
Prone to snapping shock shafts (eventually came rose jointed, which would pop out of the eyelet)
would crack by looking at them

BUT OH SO GOD DAMN SEXY TO LOOK AT!

If you didn't ride it, it's the perfect bike lol.
Good one! I completely forgot about the 135mm rear end, I’m fairly certain it was the only DH bike at the time that wasn’t 150mm. Spesh claimed it was so it wouldn’t get hung up in tighter sections of track. When is the last time you were watching a DH race and someone lost time or crashed because their rear axle was too wide?
melonhead1145 7/5/2022 2:59am
7/5/2022 2:59am
I thought the 135mm rear end was only on the super limited edition team replica? Apparently it was a change requested by Sam Hill.

I had a 2004 Santa Cruz V-10 with a floating brake mount, the rer spacing was 160mm, but the floating brake cut off 20mm, so the hub was 140mm wide, with a 15mm Axle. As far as I know you could only fit the one specialy made rear hub to the bike

"The V10.1 uses a custom rear hub made by Hadley Racing.The hub width is 140mm, and the Axle size is 15mm. The total rear dropout spacing is 160mm (140mm Hub + 20mm Floating Brake Mount = 160mm)"
https://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en-GB/bike/v10/1
Masjo
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Masjo 7/5/2022 3:44am
7/5/2022 3:44am
gibbon wrote:
The new Treks no longer have them if I am not mistaken

You are.
To be specific - the new Trek MTBs do come with Knock Block headsets (with an expanded 72 degree range) but have the option to remove it since they no longer have the 'straight shot' downtube. The current Slash and Top Fuel have this option but the Remedy, Supercaliber, and Fuel EX* do not.

* The current Fuel EX does have the expanded steering range but you can't remove the knock block. Oddly, the '2020' Trek Fuel EX, which looks the same as the 2021-current Fuel EX, is totally different and has the original/reduced steering range knock block and a different, very tall rear chainstay. It's also a bit of a 'concession' since the chunky chainstay makes it stiff in the rear but the chain slaps in pretty much every gear except the easiest 3.
Brian_Peterson 7/10/2022 10:28am
7/10/2022 10:28am
cheapondirt wrote:
Boost front ends. A better wheel in exchange for a worse fork.
Ok... I'll bite. . How does boost spacing effect the fork performance?
Primoz
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Primoz 7/10/2022 10:56am
7/10/2022 10:56am Edited Date/Time 7/10/2022 10:57am
Rotation limiting headsets are coming fast and thick. All through-headset-routing headsets come with a limited. And it's completely internal to the headset too. I think we might be seeing more of them, which I can't say is a bad thing as it will make standard hose routing easier (you'll need less slack to prevent damage) and prevent any handlebar to top tube contact. And maybe lessen/limit the front-wheel-folding-under crashes?
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cheapondirt 7/10/2022 11:04am
7/10/2022 11:04am
Brian_Peterson wrote:
Ok... I'll bite. . How does boost spacing effect the fork performance?
So, admittedly it may be more theoretical than tangible, but you know how the damper and spring sides always resist compression differently. A longer axle creates a longer lever between the two and more potential for binding.
Think I heard this idea in a Chris Porter interview.
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Primoz
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Primoz 7/10/2022 12:35pm
7/10/2022 12:35pm
Given the orientation of the system compared to the 'loading' and given the distance between the two... I'd say that's negligible. I mean, compare it to a frontal impact and how much binding that causes.
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