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My Fox 38 factory feels harsher than my 4 year old RS Yari that never got serviced, this 38 has had two services and new SKF seals as well as clearing out the clumps of grease from the negative chamber, at a loss for how to make it perform as it's supposed to. Small bump compliance is non-existent. Night and day difference to my dads Zeb Ultimate that is set up 20% stiffer than I'd even have it.
Any help?
Any help?
For me, as a new MTN rider just three years ago it was a baseline to start from (with nothing but a comparison from a Recon that came OE on my bike). Once I had the baseline parameters I got the ShockWiz and went from there. Simply it was a night and day change even from the suggested settings from Fox.
The ShockWiz will give you information, information is power.
I would like some time on a shockwiz but that’s not going to fix this issue, cheers tho.
I would just take it to an authorized service center and get it looked at. Whether that is via the shop you purchased it from or somewhere else.
Another thing you can try is dump all the air out and cycle thru the suspension. I remember a while ago you sometimes had to equalize the negative air spring when adding air otherwise it would be harsh.
Cheers fella
First all, either have the air spring serviced yourself (some special tools required) or have a service agent look at it. Most have had too much grease in the negative. A small amount of float fluid in the positive air chamber will also help.
The 38 takes a very precise amount of air that I would call the "goldilocks" spring rate, I'd call it a 3psi window. Either side of that you get a jackhammer no matter what the damper settings.
The recommended air settings are not too far off, but I would suggest running these only with 0 tokens, riding then asking yourself did you crown slap? Focus on ride height/bar height and the fork spring rate in relation to your shock.
The damper settings are the icing on the cake, The LSR suggestions are a tad slow, but the HSR is about right. Just don't go any more than 3 from closed on HSR as it chokes the damper in a way and acts as compression.
Apply compression as required, the thing with these VVC leaf sprung compression assemblies is some forks actually have compression adjustment, and some forks it doesn't work, disappointing with such an expensive piece of equipment. Several send backs for rebuilds.
It really didn't make any difference, once I put a little oil in the pos chamber it seemed to help somewhat but then that boost in suppleness seemed to fade.
I've had the fork feeling good once I'm into the mid and end stroke, its just the slower speed flatter sections where it feels as if its just not doing anything for me and I just take all the vibration directly into my hands. I guess I'll have to take it to be looked at properly, thanks.
Either way, this one is going to need to go to a service center to really figure out.
So....I'd say I was wrong about bushings/seals/oil bla bla bla.
The bummer is pulling the air spring apart requires a few special tools. (eBay them)
Tood bad you are not here in the USA- I could probably have you turned around in less than 2 weeks. Good luck and let us know what you find.
It might be ok but in comparison to my dad’s Zeb ultimate it’s night and day on the flatter sections and small chatter, which I didn’t expect to be the case before comparing them. Once I’m going quicker it feels much better so I’m not sure.
Guess I’ll just have to go faster lol
1) 10mm is not very much
2) It changes the head angle by about 1/2 degree.
Many bikes have a 63 and change HTA. The Strive comes stock at 65 (?? I think)
Overall, yes, you may notice pushing on the fork in the showroom floor it isn't as "easy to compress" but unless your HTA is under 62 (or likely more) it won't matter on trail. The "force vector" is back and up anyway.
My guess is this had to do with improper air spring assembly, or just placebo. Regardless, had to chime in here in case someone reads this and thinks their fork isn't working because of their head tube angle (thats fake news).
Just a few things to point out...
1) You say you've "run into this a few times at our suspension shop" but you also say you "never go to absolutes unless you have true scientific data". Not to get all Jeff Brines and type a dissertation on the scientific method, but you just contradicted yourself to a large degree. After all, you have no data to back up what you are suggesting.
2) There are literally hundreds of bikes with HTAs under 64 degrees. Are you suggesting all of them are sacrificing fork performance for slacker angles? Literally, the entire industry, thousands of tests, millions of athlete hours; all missing fork performance as bikes get slacker? (I've literally read 0 reviews suggesting this nor have I ever experienced it, if anything the opposite is true).
3) Every moto is at or under 64 degrees. When you sit on a moto, the HTA is CRAZY slack. You literally work for a moto tuning company, are you saying that every single moto fork is also getting "side loaded" and not able to eat bumps well as a result? Or is this specific to the Fox 38?
4) Have you examined the force vector of trail impacts?
Confirmation bias is a hell of a thing. This is why we try and test things objectively or at least run some sort of meta analysis to prove/disprove a hypothesis. While I do not know specifically why the forks you've played with have had the outcome they've had (shorter travel yields better performance) I do know your hypothesis that suggests slacker HTAs = worse fork performance is 110% wrong.
Now, to steelman a bit of what you are suggesting - bushing bind is very much a factor in fork performance. You aren't wrong there (at all). Its perhaps the biggest thing we are ignoring as an industry (or at least on the fork testing front). But the 38 is actually one of the best forks I've ridden when it comes to this (Zeb also VERY good). Regardless, HTA isn't affecting this - at least in the 66-63 deg range.
If you want a better "average joe test" go take your front wheel and press it into a wall. Now cycle the suspension. Now turn the bars a bit and try and cycle the suspension. This is bushing bind. .
If you want more banter, let me know. Cheers dude! Again, not trying to dunk on you here, just trying to articulate my 20 years of nerding out on the subject...
I've been pretty unhappy with all my Fox products over the last couple years. From finding broken parts (IFP) in my fork to a tremendously unreliable X2 shock that costs $200 to rebuild. Only saving grace here is that Fox recognizes the issue X2 issues and has warrantied outside of the window for me which is appreciated. Does the 36 have the same grease problem as the 38?
I'll likely be moving on to an Ohlins fork for the 2023 season.
Off-topic: I heard the EXT fork is really really good. I haven't tried one myself, to be honest, but everyone I know who has one is raving about it. I think it's in the same ballpark, price-wise, as the Ohlins.
I have Fox34 130 Grip2 and DPS shock. Fork does not feel too smooth. I ride more like XC. Trails here have olenty rocks and roots. I got to test Shockwiz for weekend. Seems like the settings are spot on. Im heavy rider (115kg). According to shockwiz is shoul open the compressions on fork and shock but both are fully open already. Should get cutom tune for both. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cyob9optb2s53ry/AAC4QenZasfxg5ao3q9zQW5Pa?dl…
I'd try the "Soft - Planted' Or "Soft - Poppy" profiles before paying for a custom tune.
Not sure if that would help on the shockwiz compressions....maybe worst. In my mind shock and fork work really well. Fork could be softer on the roots. Maybe will try the luftkappe
I would always recommend exhausting your tuning options before paying for an upgrade, because for World Cup racers and average Joe's I think suspension is more about setup than $$$ spent. Two things I'd try before upgrading: trying a softer fork spring rate, and if that doesn't feel good, try a softer rear shock spring rate.
Per the usual, Robot is giving you the best advice here. I'm really doubtful a custom tune or any fork modification will help sort out your issues.
When you say "fork isn't smooth", what are you comparing it to? Reason I ask is a 130mm 34 is never going to feel like a longer travel enduro fork. I often ride a 140mm 34 and find the performance to be brilliant but the fork can still feel harsh or lacking of sensitivity at times. With less travel you have to tune for control, not comfort. The only caveat here is there is an off chance the fork is having some sort of bushing bind, the air spring was never properly lubricated or the lowers have no oil etc. To verify this, a good shop tech could quickly ride it around.
Final point, I'd take the Shockwiz stuff with a (very large) grain of salt. Its good to get you in the general ballpark, but I've never found it to be something you'd want to overly rely on or make large custom tuning options based on.
As stated already, if the bushings have not been checked correctly, that could easily be the problem and source of "harshness".
Some forks have a bushing fit that is so bad it takes quite a bit of effort to push the stanchions to bottom out with no air spring, no damper, seals removed, and lowers clean and dry. I have checked bushings on well over 100 forks; 75% of them are not perfect, and maybe 20% of them are really bad. Especially for a fork like the 38 where the chassis is very stiff, if the bushings fit is bad it will feel horrible.
Because there are so many variables involved (bushing/stanchion fit, chassis alignment, stanchion alignment, hub alignment), fixing them correctly requires a shop or suspension tuner with lots of experience doing bushing work.
It is the first thing we recommend a customer do before any sort of custom tuning,etc.
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