Ok, so this is pretty interesting. The owner of Vee Tire Co has started to share Intense Factory Racing news, and another employee from Vee has...
Ok, so this is pretty interesting. The owner of Vee Tire Co has started to share Intense Factory Racing news, and another employee from Vee has posted on Facebook saying "see you soon".
Is this just them getting excited about the season? Or has Intense switched to Vee?
I kinda would MTB switched to F1 rules for tyres. There's your set for the weekend, there is your dry, wet and inters. This is the...
I kinda would MTB switched to F1 rules for tyres. There's your set for the weekend, there is your dry, wet and inters. This is the brand everyone is riding, crack on.
I know marketing and all but i'd wager bad tyres hold riders back more than any other product.
In the current form it's a free market. If a rider/team prefers big bucks to big results, it's on them.
As for F1 (and some other...
In the current form it's a free market. If a rider/team prefers big bucks to big results, it's on them.
As for F1 (and some other series), it's done that way to prevent a spending war. Back in the Bridgestone-Michelin wars Bridgestone was essentially making tires for Ferrari and them only with other teams adapting. That worked in the early 2000s days where there was unlimited testing (which helps if you own your own race track right besides the factory, so much so that Michael Schumacher reportedly took a helicopter from Monaco to Fiorano to try out a different car setup in the afternoon either before quallys or between the quallys and the race), but wouldn't work that well these days.
Also, with MTBs it's a lot more down to the feel of it all with different riders running different treads (shorties, cut shorties, DHF, DHR, Dissector, High Roller II and Assegai just from Maxxis for different types of dry running) and not so much down to 'actual performance' whereas an F1 car at the time was designed for a specific tyre as Michelins and Bridgestones were VERY different in construction and thus behaviour. QED, Toyota HQ forced the F1 team to switch from Michelins to Bridgestones (because Japan) when the car was already designed to run Michelins. The results were disastrous, even on Toyota F1 scale.
Running spec tyres in DH would do very little, both in preventing costs (Le Mans has a limited set of tyres for the 24h race, but there's an additional allocation to cover punctures) and improving racing. At the end of the day, DH racing is not bad
I get why it's done in F1 and not in MTB.
The minutia in F1 is far more important than it is in MTB, how cannot hope to design a bike around a tyre, too many variables.
But say that it has little effect to those that have to run crap tyres. The goal is to stop teams looking for a budget running crap tyres to get one and that holding riders back, which it has.
Michelin / Maxxis et al ditch their individual budgets and compete to supply the WC circuit, giving all teams an even playing field.
Meh, just feel bad for Jack, but he's in a better place now.
I get why it's done in F1 and not in MTB.
The minutia in F1 is far more important than it is in MTB, how cannot...
I get why it's done in F1 and not in MTB.
The minutia in F1 is far more important than it is in MTB, how cannot hope to design a bike around a tyre, too many variables.
But say that it has little effect to those that have to run crap tyres. The goal is to stop teams looking for a budget running crap tyres to get one and that holding riders back, which it has.
Michelin / Maxxis et al ditch their individual budgets and compete to supply the WC circuit, giving all teams an even playing field.
Meh, just feel bad for Jack, but he's in a better place now.
You could use the same argument saying everyone should run the same suspension, good suspension and bad suspension also makes a huge difference, the same with brakes. I'd say while tyres are easily the most important, suspension and brakes come 2nd to that. Maxxis and Schwalbe certainly seem to be the best in terms of tread pattern, compound and construction, and Michelin don't seem bad either. Phil Atwill has had some success on Vee, and I've never heard bad things about them. Kenda have been junk for as long as I can remember.
Ok, so this is pretty interesting. The owner of Vee Tire Co has started to share Intense Factory Racing news, and another employee from Vee has...
Ok, so this is pretty interesting. The owner of Vee Tire Co has started to share Intense Factory Racing news, and another employee from Vee has posted on Facebook saying "see you soon".
Is this just them getting excited about the season? Or has Intense switched to Vee?
Ok, so this is pretty interesting. The owner of Vee Tire Co has started to share Intense Factory Racing news, and another employee from Vee has...
Ok, so this is pretty interesting. The owner of Vee Tire Co has started to share Intense Factory Racing news, and another employee from Vee has posted on Facebook saying "see you soon".
Is this just them getting excited about the season? Or has Intense switched to Vee?
I get why it's done in F1 and not in MTB.
The minutia in F1 is far more important than it is in MTB, how cannot...
I get why it's done in F1 and not in MTB.
The minutia in F1 is far more important than it is in MTB, how cannot hope to design a bike around a tyre, too many variables.
But say that it has little effect to those that have to run crap tyres. The goal is to stop teams looking for a budget running crap tyres to get one and that holding riders back, which it has.
Michelin / Maxxis et al ditch their individual budgets and compete to supply the WC circuit, giving all teams an even playing field.
Meh, just feel bad for Jack, but he's in a better place now.
You could use the same argument saying everyone should run the same suspension, good suspension and bad suspension also makes a huge difference, the same with...
You could use the same argument saying everyone should run the same suspension, good suspension and bad suspension also makes a huge difference, the same with brakes. I'd say while tyres are easily the most important, suspension and brakes come 2nd to that. Maxxis and Schwalbe certainly seem to be the best in terms of tread pattern, compound and construction, and Michelin don't seem bad either. Phil Atwill has had some success on Vee, and I've never heard bad things about them. Kenda have been junk for as long as I can remember.
You could use the same argument but suspension can be tweaked to make a bad bike work and vice versa, tyres can't.
Brakes can also be tweaked to preference, tyres can't.
Though not all brakes and suspension are created equal, they can both be made to perform, tyres can't, maybe spoke tension or cutting little knobs off, can arguably help with grip or rolling speed.
I don't understand why Aaron Gwin hates good tires
The Onza Aquila that Gwin developed with them is actually a great tyre. It is however a very Maxxisesque tread pattern and I'm pretty sure they are made in the CST factory (Maxxis parent company) and the 40a visco compound is suspiciously like the old Maxxis Slow Reezay.
They worked really well for him in MSA in the wet!
Those Kendas they're running now look like they work as well as the IRC Kujos I had in the late 90s!
I get why it's done in F1 and not in MTB.
The minutia in F1 is far more important than it is in MTB, how cannot...
I get why it's done in F1 and not in MTB.
The minutia in F1 is far more important than it is in MTB, how cannot hope to design a bike around a tyre, too many variables.
But say that it has little effect to those that have to run crap tyres. The goal is to stop teams looking for a budget running crap tyres to get one and that holding riders back, which it has.
Michelin / Maxxis et al ditch their individual budgets and compete to supply the WC circuit, giving all teams an even playing field.
Meh, just feel bad for Jack, but he's in a better place now.
You could use the same argument saying everyone should run the same suspension, good suspension and bad suspension also makes a huge difference, the same with...
You could use the same argument saying everyone should run the same suspension, good suspension and bad suspension also makes a huge difference, the same with brakes. I'd say while tyres are easily the most important, suspension and brakes come 2nd to that. Maxxis and Schwalbe certainly seem to be the best in terms of tread pattern, compound and construction, and Michelin don't seem bad either. Phil Atwill has had some success on Vee, and I've never heard bad things about them. Kenda have been junk for as long as I can remember.
You could use the same argument but suspension can be tweaked to make a bad bike work and vice versa, tyres can't.
Brakes can also be...
You could use the same argument but suspension can be tweaked to make a bad bike work and vice versa, tyres can't.
Brakes can also be tweaked to preference, tyres can't.
Though not all brakes and suspension are created equal, they can both be made to perform, tyres can't, maybe spoke tension or cutting little knobs off, can arguably help with grip or rolling speed.
Never gonna not feel bad for Jack.
I felt worse for Jack about the stitch up he got from C'dale, but that looks to have ended up being a blessing in disguise. He seems pretty happy where he is now although I hope he gets paid the $ he deserves in the next contract cycle.
I get why it's done in F1 and not in MTB.
The minutia in F1 is far more important than it is in MTB, how cannot...
I get why it's done in F1 and not in MTB.
The minutia in F1 is far more important than it is in MTB, how cannot hope to design a bike around a tyre, too many variables.
But say that it has little effect to those that have to run crap tyres. The goal is to stop teams looking for a budget running crap tyres to get one and that holding riders back, which it has.
Michelin / Maxxis et al ditch their individual budgets and compete to supply the WC circuit, giving all teams an even playing field.
Meh, just feel bad for Jack, but he's in a better place now.
You could use the same argument saying everyone should run the same suspension, good suspension and bad suspension also makes a huge difference, the same with...
You could use the same argument saying everyone should run the same suspension, good suspension and bad suspension also makes a huge difference, the same with brakes. I'd say while tyres are easily the most important, suspension and brakes come 2nd to that. Maxxis and Schwalbe certainly seem to be the best in terms of tread pattern, compound and construction, and Michelin don't seem bad either. Phil Atwill has had some success on Vee, and I've never heard bad things about them. Kenda have been junk for as long as I can remember.
You could use the same argument but suspension can be tweaked to make a bad bike work and vice versa, tyres can't.
Brakes can also be...
You could use the same argument but suspension can be tweaked to make a bad bike work and vice versa, tyres can't.
Brakes can also be tweaked to preference, tyres can't.
Though not all brakes and suspension are created equal, they can both be made to perform, tyres can't, maybe spoke tension or cutting little knobs off, can arguably help with grip or rolling speed.
Never gonna not feel bad for Jack.
Get the tyre company make you a special run of their tyres with a different compound? There's a tweak.
As for tweaking suspension, how do you tweak a linear leverage ratio bike blowing through the travel to run a coil shock if your rider requires it? And to drag out the argument to ridiculousness, it can't be done with a simple rocker link switch, as the shock is driven off the swingarm for example
Everything can be tweaked, if there is a strong enough wish. With tyres, the strongest tweak applicator is the humble sharpie. It has enabled running Maxxis tyres to the likes of Continental sponsored Athertons and Specialized Gravity Republic.
The Onza Aquila that Gwin developed with them is actually a great tyre. It is however a very Maxxisesque tread pattern and I'm pretty sure they...
The Onza Aquila that Gwin developed with them is actually a great tyre. It is however a very Maxxisesque tread pattern and I'm pretty sure they are made in the CST factory (Maxxis parent company) and the 40a visco compound is suspiciously like the old Maxxis Slow Reezay.
They worked really well for him in MSA in the wet!
Those Kendas they're running now look like they work as well as the IRC Kujos I had in the late 90s!
Kenda ownership has some type of major relationship with intense now. I don’t know the details but the switch from onza to kenda wasn’t Aaron’s decision. Believe the switch to Thor was perhaps a choice but is also related to whatever intense’s current business structure is.
The Onza Aquila that Gwin developed with them is actually a great tyre. It is however a very Maxxisesque tread pattern and I'm pretty sure they...
The Onza Aquila that Gwin developed with them is actually a great tyre. It is however a very Maxxisesque tread pattern and I'm pretty sure they are made in the CST factory (Maxxis parent company) and the 40a visco compound is suspiciously like the old Maxxis Slow Reezay.
They worked really well for him in MSA in the wet!
Those Kendas they're running now look like they work as well as the IRC Kujos I had in the late 90s!
Kenda ownership has some type of major relationship with intense now. I don’t know the details but the switch from onza to kenda wasn’t Aaron’s decision...
Kenda ownership has some type of major relationship with intense now. I don’t know the details but the switch from onza to kenda wasn’t Aaron’s decision. Believe the switch to Thor was perhaps a choice but is also related to whatever intense’s current business structure is.
You realise Aaron owns and runs the IFR team now and it's a separate entity to Intense Bicycles?
He's chosen to run Kenda and take their sponsorship $.
No one at Intense is forcing them to run them.
Vee was producing the Intense Tire System (ITS) tires, which was/is a company belonging to T.H.E. after they bought it from Intense.
https://bikerumor.com/soc13-vee-rubber-teams-up-with-intense-its/
Maybe the return...
The Onza Aquila that Gwin developed with them is actually a great tyre. It is however a very Maxxisesque tread pattern and I'm pretty sure they...
The Onza Aquila that Gwin developed with them is actually a great tyre. It is however a very Maxxisesque tread pattern and I'm pretty sure they are made in the CST factory (Maxxis parent company) and the 40a visco compound is suspiciously like the old Maxxis Slow Reezay.
They worked really well for him in MSA in the wet!
Those Kendas they're running now look like they work as well as the IRC Kujos I had in the late 90s!
Kenda ownership has some type of major relationship with intense now. I don’t know the details but the switch from onza to kenda wasn’t Aaron’s decision...
Kenda ownership has some type of major relationship with intense now. I don’t know the details but the switch from onza to kenda wasn’t Aaron’s decision. Believe the switch to Thor was perhaps a choice but is also related to whatever intense’s current business structure is.
You realise Aaron owns and runs the IFR team now and it's a separate entity to Intense Bicycles?
He's chosen to run Kenda and take their...
You realise Aaron owns and runs the IFR team now and it's a separate entity to Intense Bicycles?
He's chosen to run Kenda and take their sponsorship $.
No one at Intense is forcing them to run them.
Ok, so this is pretty interesting. The owner of Vee Tire Co has started to share Intense Factory Racing news, and another employee from Vee has...
Ok, so this is pretty interesting. The owner of Vee Tire Co has started to share Intense Factory Racing news, and another employee from Vee has posted on Facebook saying "see you soon".
Is this just them getting excited about the season? Or has Intense switched to Vee?
All of the components his team run go to the highest bidder.
That's one way to look at it. Another is to consider that he's very difficult to work with (perhaps too particular, too needy, pain in the a or just a jerk). But it sure seems like sponsors can't wait to get away from the guy after a couple of years and he's left with second tier choices for gear and components. A-la Brian Lopes. And this is not *my take* this is what I have heard first hand from industry folks.
It's hard to say for sure, but the lever in Angel Saurez IG story looks a lot like a bronze Hayes Dominion to me.
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/01/21/11898/s1200_SuarezHayes.jpg[/img]
It's hard to say for sure, but the lever in Angel Saurez IG story looks a lot like a bronze Hayes Dominion to me.
He's been with hayes for a couple of years. That last commencal team was partnered up with them. I would guess they're a carryover. But, considering how good those brakes are i wouldn't be surprised if he kept them as a sponsor.
Chucks his mechanic under the bus as well when a crappy product fails....
I never understood why this didn't get more attention. Sure seemed like Juan Hall jumped on that grenade to cover e13 @$$. E13 must have thrown him a big bonus that year.
I never understood why this didn't get more attention. Sure seemed like Juan Hall jumped on that grenade to cover e13 @$$. E13 must have thrown...
I never understood why this didn't get more attention. Sure seemed like Juan Hall jumped on that grenade to cover e13 @$$. E13 must have thrown him a big bonus that year.
I remember when Crank-gate happened and it was discussed quite extensively here.
He's been with hayes for a couple of years. That last commencal team was partnered up with them. I would guess they're a carryover. But, considering...
He's been with hayes for a couple of years. That last commencal team was partnered up with them. I would guess they're a carryover. But, considering how good those brakes are i wouldn't be surprised if he kept them as a sponsor.
Sorry that was actually what I meant. It seems like he may be putting together his own program as opposed to moving to a team with a parts kit already sorted.
Another point of view on the Vee thing for Gwin - most everyone knows what the Maxxis tires are like performance-wise and have access to them, even if it requires a Sharpie. But if Gwin can work with a different supplier to develop something better, then he's got an advantage that no one else has vs. parity with his competitors. Doing so requires a lot more effort, time, and trust that the vendor can actually achieve that result, but if things go well he could end up with an advantage. That might drive some of his thought process. We know Maxxis works great but is there room for improvement? That's what I think he's betting on, with some mixed results to date.
Would I bet on Vee? Nah personally I've got Maxxis rubber on all my MTB rims.
Another point of view on the Vee thing for Gwin - most everyone knows what the Maxxis tires are like performance-wise and have access to them...
Another point of view on the Vee thing for Gwin - most everyone knows what the Maxxis tires are like performance-wise and have access to them, even if it requires a Sharpie. But if Gwin can work with a different supplier to develop something better, then he's got an advantage that no one else has vs. parity with his competitors. Doing so requires a lot more effort, time, and trust that the vendor can actually achieve that result, but if things go well he could end up with an advantage. That might drive some of his thought process. We know Maxxis works great but is there room for improvement? That's what I think he's betting on, with some mixed results to date.
Would I bet on Vee? Nah personally I've got Maxxis rubber on all my MTB rims.
He certainly seemed to have that opportunity with Kenda.
Gwin chose brands that aren't 'the best' for the following reasons:
-Smaller companies willing to pay him more and/or pay royalties on tires like the Pinner
-Smaller companies willing to let someone like Gwin direct their R&D and steer them to develop exactly what he wants. Which (in theory) could be a huge advantage. This also results in 'Gwin' tires that he can get royalties on. He has said he loved the Butcher and some things from the Minions, which is why he created the Aquila with Onza. Then that relationship fell apart for some reason and I'm assuming Kenda claimed they'd do the same for him and pay him royalties on the Pinner, etc.
Where this all went wrong:
-Intense has failed to develop the frames he wants and progress has been slow (he said this on the Vital interview)
-The tires have taken way longer than he'd hope (He may show up with final production rubber 2 years in).
Both of these issues, coupled with some injuries have hindered his results.
Maybe he will have his bike and tire sorted out by this season. If he does, and can stay healthy, he will be a threat again.
Oh, also, to add... Gwin developed his 'dream tire pattern' with Onza. When that fell apart he was kind of screwed because Kenda couldn't/wouldn't make an exact copy of it. So the compromise was the Pinner, but apparently they already sort of had that in development so it wasn't a full Gwin design.
Vee was producing the Intense Tire System (ITS) tires, which was/is a company belonging to T.H.E. after they bought it from Intense.
https://bikerumor.com/soc13-vee-rubber-teams-up-with-intense-its/
Maybe the return...
Was just gonna bring this up.
FRO tires that weigh approximately the same as a small truck are back, BAYBEE! (maybe)
edit: a set of 29er...
Was just gonna bring this up.
FRO tires that weigh approximately the same as a small truck are back, BAYBEE! (maybe)
edit: a set of 29er FROs on MAG30s would probably weigh north of 15lbs... I'm pretty sure the 26" set i weighed a few years back was over 12lbs.
I think it was the late 90's, maybe early 2000's. I had sets I would race day practice and my 2 race runs and the things were toast! But it was legit 5 second advantage. You would finish up for the day and half the knobs were missing lol.
The minutia in F1 is far more important than it is in MTB, how cannot hope to design a bike around a tyre, too many variables.
But say that it has little effect to those that have to run crap tyres. The goal is to stop teams looking for a budget running crap tyres to get one and that holding riders back, which it has.
Michelin / Maxxis et al ditch their individual budgets and compete to supply the WC circuit, giving all teams an even playing field.
Meh, just feel bad for Jack, but he's in a better place now.
All of the components his team run go to the highest bidder.
Brakes can also be tweaked to preference, tyres can't.
Though not all brakes and suspension are created equal, they can both be made to perform, tyres can't, maybe spoke tension or cutting little knobs off, can arguably help with grip or rolling speed.
Never gonna not feel bad for Jack.
They worked really well for him in MSA in the wet!
Those Kendas they're running now look like they work as well as the IRC Kujos I had in the late 90s!
As for tweaking suspension, how do you tweak a linear leverage ratio bike blowing through the travel to run a coil shock if your rider requires it? And to drag out the argument to ridiculousness, it can't be done with a simple rocker link switch, as the shock is driven off the swingarm for example
Everything can be tweaked, if there is a strong enough wish. With tyres, the strongest tweak applicator is the humble sharpie. It has enabled running Maxxis tyres to the likes of Continental sponsored Athertons and Specialized Gravity Republic.
He's chosen to run Kenda and take their sponsorship $.
No one at Intense is forcing them to run them.
https://bikerumor.com/soc13-vee-rubber-teams-up-with-intense-its/
Maybe the return of ITS or Intense-branded tires?
Should be a good team. Hope the kiwis don't completely overwhelm Trummer, but Tuhoto seems like the real deal and his interviews are the best around.
FRO tires that weigh approximately the same as a small truck are back, BAYBEE! (maybe)
edit: a set of 29er FROs on MAG30s would probably weigh north of 15lbs... I'm pretty sure the 26" set i weighed a few years back was over 12lbs.
Would I bet on Vee? Nah personally I've got Maxxis rubber on all my MTB rims.
-Smaller companies willing to pay him more and/or pay royalties on tires like the Pinner
-Smaller companies willing to let someone like Gwin direct their R&D and steer them to develop exactly what he wants. Which (in theory) could be a huge advantage. This also results in 'Gwin' tires that he can get royalties on. He has said he loved the Butcher and some things from the Minions, which is why he created the Aquila with Onza. Then that relationship fell apart for some reason and I'm assuming Kenda claimed they'd do the same for him and pay him royalties on the Pinner, etc.
Where this all went wrong:
-Intense has failed to develop the frames he wants and progress has been slow (he said this on the Vital interview)
-The tires have taken way longer than he'd hope (He may show up with final production rubber 2 years in).
Both of these issues, coupled with some injuries have hindered his results.
Maybe he will have his bike and tire sorted out by this season. If he does, and can stay healthy, he will be a threat again.
Oh, also, to add... Gwin developed his 'dream tire pattern' with Onza. When that fell apart he was kind of screwed because Kenda couldn't/wouldn't make an exact copy of it. So the compromise was the Pinner, but apparently they already sort of had that in development so it wasn't a full Gwin design.
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