https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADXu2hPmRbE
Closeup shots of the covered up prototype. The idler area is Session/Neko HP like. And it's a Horst link, so it's possible it was Neko's...
Closeup shots of the covered up prototype. The idler area is Session/Neko HP like. And it's a Horst link, so it's possible it was Neko's bike. Or a Session with a different seatstay maybe? o.O
cathro on a yellow v10… probably just a new unreleased color.
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/03/12/12176/s1200_F78802E1_0C9D_44BB_A81C_1F0D6BA581B3.jpg[/img]
cathro on a yellow v10… probably just a new unreleased color.
He had a frame and extra swingarm painted by Fatcreations in pinkbike colors.
Looks more than just that - different can, not only trunnion, and what seems like bb-tool cuts above the seal, I guess thats for dissasembly?
[img]https://dvosuspension.com/2020/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/topaz-2-top-gallery4.jpg[/img]
Looks more than just that - different can, not only trunnion, and what seems like bb-tool cuts above the seal, I guess thats for dissasembly?
seen a few of these in person, its a prototype, have a look at dvo new zealands Instagram for more
I would say this is a very long time coming. They got their 27.5 TX spot on but always make the 29ers so dull.
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/03/11/12166/s1200_2e19e48ab56cf3e0bac8a56a03beba3c.jpg[/img]
I would say this is a very long time coming. They got their 27.5 TX spot on but always make the 29ers so dull.
I had heard rumblings the DW link Design has some limitations when it comes to long travel and big wheels.
--
Maybe They are doing the...
I had heard rumblings the DW link Design has some limitations when it comes to long travel and big wheels.
--
Maybe They are doing the whole figuring out if they should move to a new suspension layout type thing before they update everything. Giant hangs onto designs and what not far longer than most companies so if there is a plan to update these bikes my guess is they want to creat another "future proof" platform to work from.
--
Or maybe they kinda don't actually care about being in every segment of MTB and or leading in any of them because manufacturing for other companies and making city bikes and e-bikes yields far more profit...
DW indeed doesn't work too well with longer travel. It's really hard to achieve desirable kinematics once you reach a certain amount of rear-wheel displacement.
cathro on a yellow v10… probably just a new unreleased color.
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/03/12/12176/s1200_F78802E1_0C9D_44BB_A81C_1F0D6BA581B3.jpg[/img]
cathro on a yellow v10… probably just a new unreleased color.
Probably just a custom paint job for either Cathro personally or for the Pinkbike racing team
I would say this is a very long time coming. They got their 27.5 TX spot on but always make the 29ers so dull.
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/03/11/12166/s1200_2e19e48ab56cf3e0bac8a56a03beba3c.jpg[/img]
I would say this is a very long time coming. They got their 27.5 TX spot on but always make the 29ers so dull.
I had heard rumblings the DW link Design has some limitations when it comes to long travel and big wheels.
--
Maybe They are doing the...
I had heard rumblings the DW link Design has some limitations when it comes to long travel and big wheels.
--
Maybe They are doing the whole figuring out if they should move to a new suspension layout type thing before they update everything. Giant hangs onto designs and what not far longer than most companies so if there is a plan to update these bikes my guess is they want to creat another "future proof" platform to work from.
--
Or maybe they kinda don't actually care about being in every segment of MTB and or leading in any of them because manufacturing for other companies and making city bikes and e-bikes yields far more profit...
DW indeed doesn't work too well with longer travel. It's really hard to achieve desirable kinematics once you reach a certain amount of rear-wheel displacement.
Yeah, and all the people that have been on an IH Sunday, me included, were let down and totally unhappy with its performance. And the current Pivot Phoenix is shit… 🤣
Yeah, and all the people that have been on an IH Sunday, me included, were let down and totally unhappy with its performance. And the current...
Yeah, and all the people that have been on an IH Sunday, me included, were let down and totally unhappy with its performance. And the current Pivot Phoenix is shit… 🤣
The joke is very much on you, because the Pivot Phoenix is actually a prime example of the issue. But you're being ignorant, so I won't bother trying to explain to you. Learn about frame design before you make snarky remarks.
Yeah, and all the people that have been on an IH Sunday, me included, were let down and totally unhappy with its performance. And the current...
Yeah, and all the people that have been on an IH Sunday, me included, were let down and totally unhappy with its performance. And the current Pivot Phoenix is shit… 🤣
The joke is very much on you, because the Pivot Phoenix is actually a prime example of the issue. But you're being ignorant, so I won't...
The joke is very much on you, because the Pivot Phoenix is actually a prime example of the issue. But you're being ignorant, so I won't bother trying to explain to you. Learn about frame design before you make snarky remarks.
What exactly is the issue with the Phoenix?
I’m not a suspension engineer, but i’ve had my way with tinkering the Sunday’s suspension and geo for years, ended up with an air shock on it and adjustments’ setup that made it possible to ride it as an enduro bike while still being a complete animal on a dh-course. Pretty happy with how it was at the end, so not sure what exactly is considered an issue with a long-travel dw-link bike.
The joke is very much on you, because the Pivot Phoenix is actually a prime example of the issue. But you're being ignorant, so I won't...
The joke is very much on you, because the Pivot Phoenix is actually a prime example of the issue. But you're being ignorant, so I won't bother trying to explain to you. Learn about frame design before you make snarky remarks.
The joke is very much on you, because the Pivot Phoenix is actually a prime example of the issue. But you're being ignorant, so I won't...
The joke is very much on you, because the Pivot Phoenix is actually a prime example of the issue. But you're being ignorant, so I won't bother trying to explain to you. Learn about frame design before you make snarky remarks.
to be fair the kinematics of the pivot dh bikes have not been similar to what most brands are doing for their dh frames and not in a good way most of the time. The pivot Phoenix has a leverage ratio that changes more frequently than the more preferred "linearly progressive" designs as Neko calls it where the leverage is progressive but in a straight line as opposed to curving. the curve makes shock tuning slightly more difficult.
controlling the kinematics on two very short links is a challenge which is why most companies opt for longer link designs like 4 bar. santa cruz and their design works great but not all short link designs are the same sadly. n the pivot, The axle path also pitches forward far more than most long travel suspension designs. high pivot is making large strides in the downhill scene and pivot's design is nearly the opposite of that
Every manufacturer has their own patents on suspension that are protected but at the same time, they are limited to what fits that patent unless they want to do something wildly original or completely unoriginal. Short link 4 bar/VPP is great for some applications but largely are not suited for downhill. Santa Cruz v10 being the clear exception as their design has been very successful.
Not sure how news-worthy this is, but the Mojo HD5 is listed under Ibis' past models on their website. Did I miss some news, or is there a replacement coming soon?
Not sure how news-worthy this is, but the Mojo HD5 is listed under Ibis' past models on their website. Did I miss some news, or is...
Not sure how news-worthy this is, but the Mojo HD5 is listed under Ibis' past models on their website. Did I miss some news, or is there a replacement coming soon?
Good find. Pretty sure this was how it happened last time they updated.
Not sure how news-worthy this is, but the Mojo HD5 is listed under Ibis' past models on their website. Did I miss some news, or is...
Not sure how news-worthy this is, but the Mojo HD5 is listed under Ibis' past models on their website. Did I miss some news, or is there a replacement coming soon?
I wonder if they'll ditch the 27.5 and make it 29 with a mullet option with a travel option above the ripmo. I can see the HD being a 29 165ish/170 over the ripmo's 147/160
I wonder if they'll ditch the 27.5 and make it 29 with a mullet option with a travel option above the ripmo. I can see the...
I wonder if they'll ditch the 27.5 and make it 29 with a mullet option with a travel option above the ripmo. I can see the HD being a 29 165ish/170 over the ripmo's 147/160
Giant use their own Maestro system, not DW, they are similar but separately licensed. DW has very short links top and bottom, but Maestro does have slightly longer links, IMO. Intense, Santa Cruz and a few others have managed to do 29" rear wheel with 200mm travel on a dual link bike. However I do expect the Glory will be Mullet only, Thirion has been riding a mullet Glory since he signed with them.
Some people seem to think that Intense should be more successful now that they ditched the VPP.
But why is Santa Cruz pretty successful with it while Intense wouldn't ?
Some people seem to think that Intense should be more successful now that they ditched the VPP.
But why is Santa Cruz pretty successful with it...
Some people seem to think that Intense should be more successful now that they ditched the VPP.
But why is Santa Cruz pretty successful with it while Intense wouldn't ?
Maybe Intense want to be seen as something different to SC and keeping the VPP keeps them in SC's shadow?
Although if that's the case, making a HP, session copy is kinda like just stepping from one shadow to another...
In any case Cero worked on optimisations of the VPP and thus Intense lately hasn't been running the patented VPP system, but their own adapted JS link.
As to why SC would be more successful? More money and personnel to develop the bikes compared to Intense?
In any case Cero worked on optimisations of the VPP and thus Intense lately hasn't been running the patented VPP system, but their own adapted JS...
In any case Cero worked on optimisations of the VPP and thus Intense lately hasn't been running the patented VPP system, but their own adapted JS link.
As to why SC would be more successful? More money and personnel to develop the bikes compared to Intense?
Or maybe jist sticking with vpp and not trying to adapt it…. The JS version…
They've just put up a picture on the other site of Gwin's new Intense, and on the non-drive side I noticed that the chainstay is different to the covered up bike we saw him riding, where I compared it to a session and said it looked very similar, including the cable routing
Seems to me that at some point Gwin was riding a covered up session, which then moved on to a covered up Intense prototype after testing the session.
They've just put up a picture on the other site of Gwin's new Intense, and on the non-drive side I noticed that the chainstay is different...
They've just put up a picture on the other site of Gwin's new Intense, and on the non-drive side I noticed that the chainstay is different to the covered up bike we saw him riding, where I compared it to a session and said it looked very similar, including the cable routing
Seems to me that at some point Gwin was riding a covered up session, which then moved on to a covered up Intense prototype after testing the session.
I wonder if Gwin was actually on a copy of Neko's as earlier speculated... maybe even from FW, who knows. If memory serves me correctly, the covered up bike had a horst link, the session does not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADXu2hPmRbE
Closeup shots of the covered up prototype. The idler area is Session/Neko HP like. And it's a Horst link, so it's possible it was Neko's...
Closeup shots of the covered up prototype. The idler area is Session/Neko HP like. And it's a Horst link, so it's possible it was Neko's bike. Or a Session with a different seatstay maybe? o.O
I think it's smart for Intense to be willing to change their design in pursuit of the best result.
That said, I'm a believer in HL suspension designs for longer travel bikes.
The joke is very much on you, because the Pivot Phoenix is actually a prime example of the issue. But you're being ignorant, so I won't...
The joke is very much on you, because the Pivot Phoenix is actually a prime example of the issue. But you're being ignorant, so I won't bother trying to explain to you. Learn about frame design before you make snarky remarks.
to be fair the kinematics of the pivot dh bikes have not been similar to what most brands are doing for their dh frames and not...
to be fair the kinematics of the pivot dh bikes have not been similar to what most brands are doing for their dh frames and not in a good way most of the time. The pivot Phoenix has a leverage ratio that changes more frequently than the more preferred "linearly progressive" designs as Neko calls it where the leverage is progressive but in a straight line as opposed to curving. the curve makes shock tuning slightly more difficult.
controlling the kinematics on two very short links is a challenge which is why most companies opt for longer link designs like 4 bar. santa cruz and their design works great but not all short link designs are the same sadly. n the pivot, The axle path also pitches forward far more than most long travel suspension designs. high pivot is making large strides in the downhill scene and pivot's design is nearly the opposite of that
Every manufacturer has their own patents on suspension that are protected but at the same time, they are limited to what fits that patent unless they want to do something wildly original or completely unoriginal. Short link 4 bar/VPP is great for some applications but largely are not suited for downhill. Santa Cruz v10 being the clear exception as their design has been very successful.
sorry for the long writing
If you look up the compression curves of the latest Santa Cruz bikes with the shock mounted to the lower link, they are fairly linearly falling ratio (rising rate) without too strong a curve, and the curve never changes direction. It probably is _too_ progressive for an air shock or for most non-pro racers tho.
Mounting to the top link creates all sorts of weird curves, potentially more than a long travel DW link.
Whats strange is that Intense's "JS tune" was stated by them to be more linear than Santa Cruz's VPP, but with how short the links are on the Intense DH bikes that probably only applied to their trail bikes.
Having thought about entering an actual enduro race a few times, I'm pretty qualified to pontificate on the subject and I tend to agree with Neko, more linear = more predictability (and therefore faster)
Giant use their own Maestro system, not DW, they are similar but separately licensed. DW has very short links top and bottom, but Maestro does have...
Giant use their own Maestro system, not DW, they are similar but separately licensed. DW has very short links top and bottom, but Maestro does have slightly longer links, IMO. Intense, Santa Cruz and a few others have managed to do 29" rear wheel with 200mm travel on a dual link bike. However I do expect the Glory will be Mullet only, Thirion has been riding a mullet Glory since he signed with them.
100% correct.
And while I am not a DW fanboi, the fact that Dave Weagle lost a patent lawsuit against Giant is a travesty of justice. Some real BS there from Giant.
I’m not a suspension engineer, but i’ve had my way with tinkering the Sunday’s suspension and geo for years, ended up with an air shock on it and adjustments’ setup that made it possible to ride it as an enduro bike while still being a complete animal on a dh-course. Pretty happy with how it was at the end, so not sure what exactly is considered an issue with a long-travel dw-link bike.
controlling the kinematics on two very short links is a challenge which is why most companies opt for longer link designs like 4 bar. santa cruz and their design works great but not all short link designs are the same sadly. n the pivot, The axle path also pitches forward far more than most long travel suspension designs. high pivot is making large strides in the downhill scene and pivot's design is nearly the opposite of that
Every manufacturer has their own patents on suspension that are protected but at the same time, they are limited to what fits that patent unless they want to do something wildly original or completely unoriginal. Short link 4 bar/VPP is great for some applications but largely are not suited for downhill. Santa Cruz v10 being the clear exception as their design has been very successful.
sorry for the long writing
e
But why is Santa Cruz pretty successful with it while Intense wouldn't ?
Although if that's the case, making a HP, session copy is kinda like just stepping from one shadow to another...
As to why SC would be more successful? More money and personnel to develop the bikes compared to Intense?
Seems to me that at some point Gwin was riding a covered up session, which then moved on to a covered up Intense prototype after testing the session.
That said, I'm a believer in HL suspension designs for longer travel bikes.
Mounting to the top link creates all sorts of weird curves, potentially more than a long travel DW link.
Whats strange is that Intense's "JS tune" was stated by them to be more linear than Santa Cruz's VPP, but with how short the links are on the Intense DH bikes that probably only applied to their trail bikes.
Having thought about entering an actual enduro race a few times, I'm pretty qualified to pontificate on the subject and I tend to agree with Neko, more linear = more predictability (and therefore faster)
And while I am not a DW fanboi, the fact that Dave Weagle lost a patent lawsuit against Giant is a travesty of justice. Some real BS there from Giant.
Post a reply to: MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation