I am pretty sure it was discussed here or in the team rumors thread, but there were some Raaw dh bikes being tested at Lousa. They apper slightly different than the current offerings (rocker link especially) or am I wrong? The 555 gravity team (sponsored by Raaw) alluded to something in the works on IG some time ago.
I am pretty sure it was discussed here or in the team rumors thread, but there were some Raaw dh bikes being tested at Lousa. They...
I am pretty sure it was discussed here or in the team rumors thread, but there were some Raaw dh bikes being tested at Lousa. They apper slightly different than the current offerings (rocker link especially) or am I wrong? The 555 gravity team (sponsored by Raaw) alluded to something in the works on IG some time ago.
Are Intense even relevant anymore? People still cannot buy the Tracer that they debuted 7 months ago. As a brand they should be let die. If Intense were an animal they would be put down.
Are Intense even relevant anymore? People still cannot buy the Tracer that they debuted 7 months ago. As a brand they should be let die. If...
Are Intense even relevant anymore? People still cannot buy the Tracer that they debuted 7 months ago. As a brand they should be let die. If Intense were an animal they would be put down.
That's maybe a bit extreme, but it does seem to me like they've lost a lot of credit in the actual bike market (not including racing). I would not consider any of their current bikes were I in the market.
Here are some screengrabs [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/03/02/12105/s1200_IMG_20220302_WA0004.jpg[/img]
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/03/02/12106/s1200_IMG_20220302_WA0003.jpg[/img]
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/03/02/12107/s1200_IMG_20220302_WA0002.jpg[/img]
Here are some screengrabs
I like the look of those beefy pivots and rear ends.
Intense also has a new Enduro bike dropping soon that looks very similar to the DH bike Gwin rocked last year.
I’m sure (I hope) that the people running intense are smarter than me. But it seems they are going down a very stupid path:
Build a 29” DH bike in a rush.
Throw a billion dollars at Gwin.
Decide the bike isn’t that good and completely re-design.
Only let Gwin ride it.
Proto an enduro bike modeled after it, no announcements for months.
Produce a carbon mold, let outlets test it without releasing any #’s. Months later still no news.
Decide that your proto DH bike sucks and copy a trek (potentially the only smart decision they’ve made)
Be stuck with the sunken costs of a basically completely designed and carbon molded enduro bike that hasn’t hit market, that has most likely at this point been left in the dust both geometry and suspension design wise.
Are Intense even relevant anymore? People still cannot buy the Tracer that they debuted 7 months ago. As a brand they should be let die. If...
Are Intense even relevant anymore? People still cannot buy the Tracer that they debuted 7 months ago. As a brand they should be let die. If Intense were an animal they would be put down.
That's maybe a bit extreme, but it does seem to me like they've lost a lot of credit in the actual bike market (not including racing)...
That's maybe a bit extreme, but it does seem to me like they've lost a lot of credit in the actual bike market (not including racing). I would not consider any of their current bikes were I in the market.
There sole target is the SoCal motobro scene now days
Are Intense even relevant anymore? People still cannot buy the Tracer that they debuted 7 months ago. As a brand they should be let die. If...
Are Intense even relevant anymore? People still cannot buy the Tracer that they debuted 7 months ago. As a brand they should be let die. If Intense were an animal they would be put down.
That's maybe a bit extreme, but it does seem to me like they've lost a lot of credit in the actual bike market (not including racing)...
That's maybe a bit extreme, but it does seem to me like they've lost a lot of credit in the actual bike market (not including racing). I would not consider any of their current bikes were I in the market.
I sold last year the last good bike they made (2017 tracer).. may be I should have kept it as collectable.. "last good generation" ; )
I think the Sniper's really appealing as an XC bike... especially when compared to almost every other brand offering what's essentially a single pivot bike in the XC space. From a suspension design standpoint, only the Ibis Exie and Revel Ranger compare (the latter being too heavy to really be included).
I’m sure (I hope) that the people running intense are smarter than me. But it seems they are going down a very stupid path:
Build a...
I’m sure (I hope) that the people running intense are smarter than me. But it seems they are going down a very stupid path:
Build a 29” DH bike in a rush.
Throw a billion dollars at Gwin.
Decide the bike isn’t that good and completely re-design.
Only let Gwin ride it.
Proto an enduro bike modeled after it, no announcements for months.
Produce a carbon mold, let outlets test it without releasing any #’s. Months later still no news.
Decide that your proto DH bike sucks and copy a trek (potentially the only smart decision they’ve made)
Be stuck with the sunken costs of a basically completely designed and carbon molded enduro bike that hasn’t hit market, that has most likely at this point been left in the dust both geometry and suspension design wise.
Profit…
Would really like to see where they make any profit with that model
But seriously about the DH bike, is it just Gwin who does not like the VPP suspension because santa cruz is obviously doing fantastic with it, or would like to see where the problem is...
Would really like to see where they make any profit with that model :lol:
But seriously about the DH bike, is it just Gwin who does...
Would really like to see where they make any profit with that model
But seriously about the DH bike, is it just Gwin who does not like the VPP suspension because santa cruz is obviously doing fantastic with it, or would like to see where the problem is...
The irony is, if you know what you are doing, you can make a Dual Link/VPP design do whatever you want it to do, so the fact that INTENSE has abandoned their VPP design ethos to achieve what gwin is looking for... you can draw your own conclusions.
In fairness, they did do various other designs before VPP came along.
Theoretically you can, in practice you are still within certain boundaries. The angles of rotation of VPP links are different (greater) than the angles of rotation of a horst-link (the rocker coming close though), thus the leverage ratio curves and axle paths tend to be different in the end.
Would really like to see where they make any profit with that model :lol:
But seriously about the DH bike, is it just Gwin who does...
Would really like to see where they make any profit with that model
But seriously about the DH bike, is it just Gwin who does not like the VPP suspension because santa cruz is obviously doing fantastic with it, or would like to see where the problem is...
The irony is, if you know what you are doing, you can make a Dual Link/VPP design do whatever you want it to do, so the...
The irony is, if you know what you are doing, you can make a Dual Link/VPP design do whatever you want it to do, so the fact that INTENSE has abandoned their VPP design ethos to achieve what gwin is looking for... you can draw your own conclusions.
In fairness, they did do various other designs before VPP came along.
Random thoughts with the intense situation,
With intense's current size vs Santa Cruz, how much does developing a new VPP bike cost vs going back to basics with a line of really great Horst link bikes. I know Intense and SC shared development while the patent was around but intense worked with and I'm guessing paid Cero design a lot of $$ to help them with the "JS tuned" bikes, which I spent time on a few of them and they were great frames, but if Intense lacks the in house engineering team other brands have and is sourcing it from a third party, that's got to be expensive for a brand trying to stage a comeback and stay relevant. They seem to be struggling in that department with the slow release of the new tracer and seemingly killing off the M-275 after two seasons of very public development for a new Horst link frame.
Other brands like Norco made the first high pivot Aurum in CAD and went straight to carbon in a risky move that worked out while Jeff welds up a ton of lust worth alloy test frames that don't seem to meet the teams needs this time around. And with that in mind, could it just be a team issue? Could Dak do a Moir/Lucas with the M-275 and tame the "unrideable"? Again, those guys didn't have an issue with the M29 or M16, they were on the podium with both and everyone couldn't get enough of the M29 while it was under the IFR guys until Gwin wasn't a fan. And Neko seemed to gravitate towards the M29 a few times as well during his time on Gwintense™.
Also, how rare is it for a brand that seems equally unable to score a win, like this week's "updated bikes" post, the paint hate it the Costco/951 line move while at the same time have everyone hooked on their new bike development somewhat hoping for them to come out swinging.
While I agree their gravity offerings need an update I haven’t had an issue with any intense I’ve swung a leg over in the carbon era. Seem to be in terms of construction on par with the other quality mass produced brands.
I do think the timing of everything with gwin coming in during a kind of changing time at intense has been kind of unfortunate. In an ideal world they’d have a fresh line of sick bikes to sell before signing someone like him. But it was a partnership that was kind of rushed because yt dropped Aaron and in the long term I think it will be a great match once both the racing and product program get closer to their potential.
Personally I think the Costco line is cool. I’d buy that xc bike in a heart beat. It’s also modern by every standard. Not every town has an lbs worth giving their money too or one at all.
I think gwin likely blames the VPP for his lack of results in recent years where as its actually down to the fact he is getting older and slower. Oh and his poor choice of sponsor in certain areas.
I think gwin likely blames the VPP for his lack of results in recent years where as its actually down to the fact he is getting...
I think gwin likely blames the VPP for his lack of results in recent years where as its actually down to the fact he is getting older and slower. Oh and his poor choice of sponsor in certain areas.
VPP never slowed down the Syndicate did it.
Well if testing other companies bikes has brought them in another direction then maybe there where issues. I assume they would be using timed runs for testing purposes.
Well if testing other companies bikes has brought them in another direction then maybe there where issues. I assume they would be using timed runs for...
Well if testing other companies bikes has brought them in another direction then maybe there where issues. I assume they would be using timed runs for testing purposes.
If the brain tells someone something will be faster invariably it is faster.
I’m sure (I hope) that the people running intense are smarter than me. But it seems they are going down a very stupid path:
Build a...
I’m sure (I hope) that the people running intense are smarter than me. But it seems they are going down a very stupid path:
Build a 29” DH bike in a rush.
Throw a billion dollars at Gwin.
Decide the bike isn’t that good and completely re-design.
Only let Gwin ride it.
Proto an enduro bike modeled after it, no announcements for months.
Produce a carbon mold, let outlets test it without releasing any #’s. Months later still no news.
Decide that your proto DH bike sucks and copy a trek (potentially the only smart decision they’ve made)
Be stuck with the sunken costs of a basically completely designed and carbon molded enduro bike that hasn’t hit market, that has most likely at this point been left in the dust both geometry and suspension design wise.
Profit…
It looks like Dak is still on the old proto as of his last Instagram post at Windrock 3 days. Someone said he skipped the TTC race to get accustomed to the bike so was riding Windrock instead. I don't know his height but I wonder if Dak is literally riding Gwin's or Neko's old frame. They seriously couldn't have built another Session/Mullaly proto for their only top 20 ranked rider?
It looks like Dak is still on the old proto as of his last Instagram post at Windrock 3 days. Someone said he skipped the TTC...
It looks like Dak is still on the old proto as of his last Instagram post at Windrock 3 days. Someone said he skipped the TTC race to get accustomed to the bike so was riding Windrock instead. I don't know his height but I wonder if Dak is literally riding Gwin's or Neko's old frame. They seriously couldn't have built another Session/Mullaly proto for their only top 20 ranked rider?
Again, the Intense sh*tshow. Gwin should have been on this proto he's been asking for (for more than a year) last fall and DAK shortly thereafter. Now we have Gwin learning the new proto as of two weeks ago and DAK possibly just getting on one now (maybe) a couple weeks before the season. Classic Intense. I'm assuming Gwin only re-signed with them with a guarantee they would have the new bike for him for this season. That announcement was back in early November. They move so slow for a company that 'can build custom frames in house'.
As to the comment above the Gwin is 'blaming' VPP on his results: He hasn't blamed that frame ever. He's just always said 'we're looking to improve it'. And he's been trying to do that for two years. Neko did blame it for his results--well, him not 'getting along with it'. Gwins results are likely the result of 3 major things: 1.Tires, 2. Stiffer competition/deeper field 3. Not getting along with the frame, 4. Injuries. Because of #2 and his age, he'll never dominate like he did, but with a healthy body, a bike he loves and some good tires he will definitely find more wins over the next couple years. Assuming this new prototype is exactly what he wants to go fast.
Build a 29” DH bike in a rush.
Throw a billion dollars at Gwin.
Decide the bike isn’t that good and completely re-design.
Only let Gwin ride it.
Proto an enduro bike modeled after it, no announcements for months.
Produce a carbon mold, let outlets test it without releasing any #’s. Months later still no news.
Decide that your proto DH bike sucks and copy a trek (potentially the only smart decision they’ve made)
Be stuck with the sunken costs of a basically completely designed and carbon molded enduro bike that hasn’t hit market, that has most likely at this point been left in the dust both geometry and suspension design wise.
Profit…
Oh, and the Stoll M2 🤤
I was told there would be some new bikes?
But seriously about the DH bike, is it just Gwin who does not like the VPP suspension because santa cruz is obviously doing fantastic with it, or would like to see where the problem is...
In fairness, they did do various other designs before VPP came along.
With intense's current size vs Santa Cruz, how much does developing a new VPP bike cost vs going back to basics with a line of really great Horst link bikes. I know Intense and SC shared development while the patent was around but intense worked with and I'm guessing paid Cero design a lot of $$ to help them with the "JS tuned" bikes, which I spent time on a few of them and they were great frames, but if Intense lacks the in house engineering team other brands have and is sourcing it from a third party, that's got to be expensive for a brand trying to stage a comeback and stay relevant. They seem to be struggling in that department with the slow release of the new tracer and seemingly killing off the M-275 after two seasons of very public development for a new Horst link frame.
Other brands like Norco made the first high pivot Aurum in CAD and went straight to carbon in a risky move that worked out while Jeff welds up a ton of lust worth alloy test frames that don't seem to meet the teams needs this time around. And with that in mind, could it just be a team issue? Could Dak do a Moir/Lucas with the M-275 and tame the "unrideable"? Again, those guys didn't have an issue with the M29 or M16, they were on the podium with both and everyone couldn't get enough of the M29 while it was under the IFR guys until Gwin wasn't a fan. And Neko seemed to gravitate towards the M29 a few times as well during his time on Gwintense™.
Also, how rare is it for a brand that seems equally unable to score a win, like this week's "updated bikes" post, the paint hate it the Costco/951 line move while at the same time have everyone hooked on their new bike development somewhat hoping for them to come out swinging.
I do think the timing of everything with gwin coming in during a kind of changing time at intense has been kind of unfortunate. In an ideal world they’d have a fresh line of sick bikes to sell before signing someone like him. But it was a partnership that was kind of rushed because yt dropped Aaron and in the long term I think it will be a great match once both the racing and product program get closer to their potential.
Personally I think the Costco line is cool. I’d buy that xc bike in a heart beat. It’s also modern by every standard. Not every town has an lbs worth giving their money too or one at all.
https://www.costco.com/intense-951-trail-bike.product.100692028.html
VPP never slowed down the Syndicate did it.
(end of derail, was just curious)
Maybe SC should ditch VPP as its slow....
As to the comment above the Gwin is 'blaming' VPP on his results: He hasn't blamed that frame ever. He's just always said 'we're looking to improve it'. And he's been trying to do that for two years. Neko did blame it for his results--well, him not 'getting along with it'. Gwins results are likely the result of 3 major things: 1.Tires, 2. Stiffer competition/deeper field 3. Not getting along with the frame, 4. Injuries. Because of #2 and his age, he'll never dominate like he did, but with a healthy body, a bike he loves and some good tires he will definitely find more wins over the next couple years. Assuming this new prototype is exactly what he wants to go fast.
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