Vital MTB Test Sessions: Five of the Best Long-Travel Enduro 29ers Raced and Reviewed 163

Multiple back-to-back tests of the Evil Wreckoning, Orbea Rallon, Specialized Enduro, Transition Sentinel, and Trek Slash revealed their strengths and weaknesses, and then we raced them against the clock!

bturman
3/3/2018 10:32pm
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Related:
Trek
Specialized
Transition
Orbea
Test Sessions
29er
Tested
Evil
Enduro
LITPro
163 comments

View replies to: Vital MTB Test Sessions: Five of the Best Long-Travel Enduro 29ers Raced and Reviewed

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Headshot
6 years ago
Great comparison. Really does bear out how the rider (fitness and skill) is the most important factor.

How about the same with 27.5 - 160 - 170mm travel bikes?
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willaasss
6 years ago
Love the test, outcome seems to be buy the one you like the look of most tho as their all so close together.
As for another test... Long wheel bases like the pole V's a traditional ish design....
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zuman
6 years ago
I do have a question though, At 21:20, What did Steve mean by saying that the Spez Enduro was the hardest to ride well?
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bturman
6 years ago
Great question. I believe he's referring to the higher amount of trail feedback the bike provides. You've got to be ready to hang on in some instances! But boy is it good when you do.
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zuman
6 years ago
I think this review is not about which one is better, as the title says, this are already the best in this category, this in my opinion is more to define and differentiate each bikes characteristics and abilities with reference to the bikes reviewed,
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Solidautomech
6 years ago
How about 29er vs 275 test? Maybe take the top 3 29ers from this test and race them against the top three from a 275 test. Also do the same with DH bikes. Then do DH bikes against trail bikes on a DH trail because everyone says these new trail bikes descend like a DH bike and I don’t believe them
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Sohaib Younus
6 years ago
Really good job on comparing the bikes and publish the data for public that usually never happens. I would also like to see a similar comparison on 27.5 enduro, with a Capra in the mix. Keep up the great work!
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fedfox
6 years ago
Great job fellows!!! How about a 27.5 enduros, and all mountain. Also I will love to see a battle of the carbon wheels, i have not seem one yet any where. That was very informative and good to watch, next time timed the climbs
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tcmtnbikr
6 years ago
Where's the raw data so we can see the variability in a given bike, # of runs, and determine if this has any statistical significance at all
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kroz
6 years ago
I do not think that two testers are enough to draw conclusions related to a generalized average of performance for the given bikes. It isn't mentioned, but I think that it would also be important for each tester to test the bikes in a different order. Maybe 5 testers for a test of 5 bikes, all testers starting and finishing with different bikes. Preferably all testers being competent in the class of bicycle that is being tested, but from different riding backgrounds. IE enduro racer who used to DH race, XC race, dirt jump, etc.
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TRex
6 years ago
One of the testers did race enduro last year, and placed on the pro podium at Vail's Outlier Enduro. That tester also has raced DH, and was a 'Junior X' XC racer years ago, and loves to dirt jump. The other tester rides more bikes in this category than many, has raced DH, did XC events in his collegiate career through necessity rather than desire, and dirt jumps a lot when he isn't hurt. Of course, more testers could be good, but this format seems cool to me because it is simply another metric to measure. As in many car tests, there may be a track component, but that definitely doesn't designate a winner. The feel is important, the little bits and pieces are important, and the overall winner, which there isn't here, can be a car that isn't the absolute fastest. I would see segment times as more relevant than overall time.
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bturman
6 years ago
While we'd love to send 50 rippers of various backgrounds down the trail on each bike, it'd be a logistical nightmare. Haha! This is what we can offer, for now. We laid all the cards on the table in the name of transparency.

There's just a quick mention of it at around the 22:20 mark, but we did race the bikes in the opposite order of one another to lessen any fatigue/course condition bias.
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jeff.brines
6 years ago
I think this is as good as it gets, persay. Lets look at the top car show, Top Gear. Second to having the Stig, which arguably Steve is akin to (his racing pedigree is strong), this is pretty dang good. Put another way, if the car world can't support something like you are suggesting, the bike world *certainly* can't. Don't forget, entertainment value is a just as big a component as data.

Maybe there is a business opportunity there? (a place for testing! Come one, come all, ride whatever you want, we'll time you and tell you what works!) Probably not...

The only gripe I have is the tires should have been equalized throughout the test. This is just too easy, and too obvious of a change to not normalize for. Otherwise this is as good as it gets.
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zuman
6 years ago
This is great, love the new format, very informative and also very entertaining,
If ever there is a plan to do new category, may i suggest testing the crop of new steel full sus bikes, this category i think is the hardest to get a demo thus would really benefit this review format. Can't wait for the next batch and racing coverage.
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eduardocouto
6 years ago
You guys should do an aggressive 27.5 trail bike test, and include some bikes like the new Transition Scout, Canyon Spectral, Pivot Mach 5.5, and the Guerrilla Gravity ShredDogg
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b rock
6 years ago
I'd be into this, especially if you all ride 'em up steeps and switchbacks, tight trails and open, as well as down, to see how balanced their performance is. Throw in a tall test rider on XL frames if you can!
I wonder if a Jeffsy would fit here with some wider tires and maybe shock tune?
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Billrideshisbike.
6 years ago
Awesome job Vital. Pretty quickly, you begin to realize how hard a test like this is to do. I think you did a great job. As others have suggested, each reviewer using the same wheels/tires could be a good equalizer.
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Jaylynx13
6 years ago
Should have waited a week or two and added Capra 29. Also, no Hightower LT? Original Hightower and now LT are outselling almost everything.
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reseRved
6 years ago
So based on this analysis (and your sample size of 2) the "fastest" bike is 1.1% faster than the "slowest" bike which is to say: a truly insignificant difference.
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reseRved
6 years ago
In a DH or DS race, sure. I do think this is one of the best comparative bike reviews I've seen to date, although on race day I'm going for a red bike because everyone knows red is the fastest color.
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jessemelamed
6 years ago
I definitely think you are missing a bike...
But solid review nonetheless, really enjoyed that!

Although I think you went halfway on this. You wanted to do a back-to-back, strict comparison of the bikes. Well bike makers don't make the parts, so why would you have different parts on each bike? If you wanted to do a 'different' review and properly review each bike back-to-back I personally think you should have had the same part spec(mainly wheels/tires, brakes, suspension, cockpit.) Then you really find out which 'bike' is the best, as in rear suspension feel/geo. And then you can add in the spec'd parts to the review. Bottom line there should be two parts to it: Test the bikes with the same spec to get a proper feel for the bike, and then test the bike with what is spec'd. Then someone can pick the bike based on how they want it to ride and what it comes spec'd with. 2¢
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RiderMikeCheck1
6 years ago
Agree with you Jesse. The only thing that really matters about a bike is the suspension and geo. All other things should be normalized when doing comparative tests. Then do the review. I understand that becomes super costly for reviewers, so I think at a bare minimum they need to at least have the same tires. And then next on the list would be handlebar/grips, then same wheels. It's all about the frames. That's what should be tested.
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Stephan_Becker
6 years ago
Totally agree, tires need to be normalized as rear shocks. It's tough to compare coil shock bikes to air shock bikes. The ratings are all over the place as well. They rate the very linear suspension Orbea as a better jumper than the progressive Evil. The same shootout would be great with the same tires, forks and shocks to start. That should be an easier one to make happen. This is a great review and hopefully more are to come!
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Who is A A Ron?
6 years ago
I agree with you in theory, BUT, manufacturers do not sell bikes that way. The overall build of a bike does make a difference for ride quality. Product managers have to make decisions and those decisions often define the personality of a bike. For the end user the component selection is important to take into account. I think this is great, next time maybe Steve will be allowed to speak!
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bturman
6 years ago
Jesse, ya pinner! It's really awesome to see you chiming in and I appreciate your thoughts.

We would LOVE to do a test in the manner you've proposed for the reasons you stated. It would be the gold standard for a pure frame test, no doubt. There are some big hurdles we'd have to overcome to pull it off, but it's possible in the future. Keep in mind that shocks are tuned specific to each frame, so those would need to remain.

That said, bike manufacturers make bikes. Bikes come with parts. Those parts were carefully chosen (and often tested) by Product Managers at the bike companies to fit the "intended purpose" of their bike. Plus, most people are buying completes these days.

A handful of years ago, when we kicked off our Test Sessions, it was crazy just how many bikes came with what felt like unridable cockpit components. They've all improved in this arena big time in the years since, partly due to many bike reviews saying "shorter stem, wider bars..." Perhaps some companies should spec more appropriate tires, like the ones they run on their personal bikes? Maybe they will now? A rider on a budget can only hope!
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jessemelamed
6 years ago
I'm just as curious as anyone! That's why I wish the Instinct was in there, to see how you guys think it compares.

I know product managers put a lot of thought into the spec of the bikes and custom tuning of the rear shocks. But that's why I said there needs to be two parts. One part is what you guys did here, complete bike comparisons. The bikes were spec'd the way they were for a reason and that is how they are bought, so of course those configurations need to be tested. You guys did a great job of that here, I thoroughly enjoyed all 36 minutes of it! The supplemental test would then be to isolate the suspension design and geo. We are all just bike nerds and want all the information!

I remember the days when you would have to change half the bike before you took it out for a ride, we are lucky bikes come ready to ride now.
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iwil815
6 years ago
I would agree, and I like the thought of doing bikes based on floor models because that is what people are going to buy for the most part. However, going off of that, why do you have the Evil with a PUSH 11-6? That doesn't come stock on any bike and in my mind skews it a bit because it is often considered one of the best shocks available as aftermarket part. I mean, just cuz the guys at Evil might think its the best shock for their bike its a bit misleading since you can't get that bike with that shock, not stock at least. Thanks for any info.
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iwil815
6 years ago
Touche. Didn't realize that for the Wreckoning. Still not what I would call "stock" considering it adds $900 to the bike but I digress.
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Headshot
6 years ago
Isn't that called a "frame review"? Surely a review of bikes available on the shop floor should be of the bikes as they are sold? I'm happy to hear how the bikes compared as the manufacturer intended them to be. If that affects performance then I'll get that from the review and make a choice based on the information provided. That said, the idea of a frame review is intriguing.
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mtnrush666
6 years ago
Setting the frames with the same parts would definitely make for an interesting review...but could be expensive or time consuming. It would also assume that readers would buy frame only vs. looking at the complete package.
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uskas
6 years ago
The bike with excesive AS and PKBK is very good on rough terrain and confidence inspiring (Rallon)
Trek, the second lowest AS bike is percieved as the best climber.
Except for Rallon, slowest bikes of first tester are fastest bikes of second tester.
The time differences are not that big for someone who does not race so it will end up for the personal feeling and preference.
How am I supposed to judge now without having the chance to test ride a lot of bikes like you?
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bturman
6 years ago
Great observations. We had those as well! Remember that kinematics are only half the equation. Shock choice/tune/technology can play a massive role in how a bike rides. That's why we actually have to ride them!

We chose to race the bikes in the opposite order of one another. This decision was made to give each bike a chance under a "fresh" racer. The thought was that fatigue might come into play as the race day went on.

We both did two warm up laps prior to the race as well, so we weren't dropping in blind to the day's dirt conditions on our first test bikes.

We also ensured that we had ridden the trail a ton prior to the race. The filming process was a GREAT way to get very familiar with the trail which lessened variability in line choice.

So yes, like you, we were surprised to see the slowest/fastest switcharoo.

How are you supposed to judge? We hope we've given you plenty to chew on. I'd watch the videos and determine if Steve or I ride more similarly to your style. I'd also consider your priorities/strengths as a rider, what your trails demand, etc, and then dig into the ratings and reviews.
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RiderMikeCheck1
6 years ago
Wow, this is a fantastic piece. Except for one glaring issue. The tire situation. I really agree with others that you should have normalized that factor and use the same tires across all of the bikes. The single largest thing that can change the feel of a bike are the tires. And in the case of these bikes represent
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vanillarice19
6 years ago
I find tires can make such a big difference in ride quality, feel, and confidence in my descents. Of course this translates to a much faster time. It's unfortunate you couldn't take that huge variable out of the equation but this is the way the manufacturer has specced the bike. The bikes with DH Threads like the Maxxis 2.5 3C DHF front tires probably did better than bikes specced Trail tires.
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Ganderson
6 years ago
Awesome test and new format!!!

27.5 Aggressive Trail Bikes:
YT Jeffsy 27
Canyon Spectral
Norco Sight 27.5
Pivot Mach 5.5
Evil The Calling
GG Shred Dogg
Transition Scout
Ibis Mojo 3
???
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