Anybody rode supertrail vs radial in the back back2back? Idk if I should switch to radial in the back too but I worry that the grip...
Anybody rode supertrail vs radial in the back back2back? Idk if I should switch to radial in the back too but I worry that the grip might be too much and rolling resistance too high on asphalt.
I haven't with the same tread pattern as a control (currently you can only do this with the Mary since the Albert and Shredda's are new...
I haven't with the same tread pattern as a control (currently you can only do this with the Mary since the Albert and Shredda's are new tread patterns). Wouldn't be surprised if a site conducts this test soon.
But going from a Tacky Chan Super Trail UltraSoft -> Albert Trail Pro Radial UltraSoft, i didn't notice a massive difference in rolling performance. The grip on the other hand, very noticeable improvement. Though this is a apple to oranges comparison in many ways, the Alberta and Tacky Chan have different intentions.
Something you should consider, which is a big 'pro' that isn't discussed enough imo, is the ability to run a more durable and faster rolling rubber compound, while still maintaining necessary grip. Not to hijack your comment, but I'd be very intrested in the back to back testing of a 27.5 Mary GRAVITY PRO Radial Soft compared to a 27.5 Mary Super Gravity UltraSoft.
I can't measure anything and I ran the radials on an ebike only so far. So hard to gage rolling restitance but the radial tire is way louder on asphalt. But hard to say if this is an indication that its rolling slower. But it kinda sounds like it would if you would run a supertrail tire with not enough air and this could be an indication that they roll slower on asphalt. I also sometimes find the grip of the supertrail super soft mary too much in the back as it locks up when I want to actually flick the wheel around. Like in some situations it was more fun with a less grippier rear tire...
Regarding the Continental DH tires (and probably Enduro casing tires as well). Angel Suarez's mechanic was on video at a World Cup saying that Angel will ride on a set of Conti tires no more than 5 (something very low like that) runs before they have to be replaced. He said they weren't replacing them because of the rubber wear but because of the 'casing break down'.
Interesting because I was in the garage and felt the a brand new Arotal (DH casing) and a well used Kryptotal (DH casing) and the difference was quite noticeable. The used tire feels a good bit softer/more pliable than the fresh tire. I've never noticed tires from other brands showing this much casing feel difference between fresh and used. It might be there, but I've never noticed it like I did on these Conti DH tires.
Regarding the Continental DH tires (and probably Enduro casing tires as well). Angel Suarez's mechanic was on video at a World Cup saying that Angel will...
Regarding the Continental DH tires (and probably Enduro casing tires as well). Angel Suarez's mechanic was on video at a World Cup saying that Angel will ride on a set of Conti tires no more than 5 (something very low like that) runs before they have to be replaced. He said they weren't replacing them because of the rubber wear but because of the 'casing break down'.
Interesting because I was in the garage and felt the a brand new Arotal (DH casing) and a well used Kryptotal (DH casing) and the difference was quite noticeable. The used tire feels a good bit softer/more pliable than the fresh tire. I've never noticed tires from other brands showing this much casing feel difference between fresh and used. It might be there, but I've never noticed it like I did on these Conti DH tires.
It is there, when I saw that video too I started to keep an eye for it too last summer. Happens on Specs gravity casing too and even more so with Michelins 2024 enduro lineup. Its actually quite noticeable if you change tires often, like I had to do while testing.
Coming from the classic Assegai/DHR II for SoCal riding on an emtb I saw radial tires were on so many " 2024 Best Of" listings I had to try them.
My research, direct from Schwable and what I read out there didn't make the choices easy since there's some conflicting information and not a lot of exisitng tread paterns available in radial. I ended up with a MM up front and Shredda rear in the back, both 2.5, super soft and gravity pro.
Once in hand it was clear the tread pattern was not the right choice for SoCal riding. Particularly the Shredda with super long and flexible knobs but also the MM, which from every account read like a do it all for all conditions choice. From what I've gathered since the Gravity pro casing might help the soft treads hold up in cornering/braking but I just can't see that being the case with these in my conditions. Also the MM measured almost 2.3 on a 30mm rim, which is not confidence inspiring out front.
I went back to the drawing board and purchased Alberts, a 2.6 Gravity Super Soft for the front and a 2.5 Gravity Soft for the rear. In dimensions and tread that seems close to what I was used to and will perform best in my conditions. Time will tell this weekend when they get dirty for the first time.
Schwalbe's approach does seem contrarian in that you need higher PSI to make up for side wall support/rim protection which also leads to a muted, more "reboundy" trail feel but the softer tread and bigger contact patch make up for that. I can see that not being for everyone, it'll be interesting to try myself.
Sure will, I'm curious too. Probably get em mounted up this weekend. For the record, the Shredda did measure accurately. Someone on mtbr said thier 2.5 Albert...
Sure will, I'm curious too. Probably get em mounted up this weekend. For the record, the Shredda did measure accurately.
Someone on mtbr said thier 2.5 Albert measured 2.37 on a 30mm rim. So I'm thinking all are about .1 narrow.
If the contact patch is bigger (wider) does it matter what it meaures??????
Contact patch gets longer as the tire compresses onto the ground but stays the same width, excluding a little bit of casing stretch.
Sure will, I'm curious too. Probably get em mounted up this weekend. For the record, the Shredda did measure accurately. Someone on mtbr said thier 2.5 Albert...
Sure will, I'm curious too. Probably get em mounted up this weekend. For the record, the Shredda did measure accurately.
Someone on mtbr said thier 2.5 Albert measured 2.37 on a 30mm rim. So I'm thinking all are about .1 narrow.
If the contact patch is bigger (wider) does it matter what it meaures??????
Contact patch gets longer as the tire compresses onto the ground but stays the same width, excluding a little bit of casing stretch.
I'm no scientist but if the width is round (the casing) and it's flattened won't the contact patrch end up wider than the static measurement? Especially if the knobs also flex out. So, if the radial is doing what it's marketed to do, a Maxxis measuring the same static width would have a narrower contact patch than a radial. That's how I understand that the secret sauce of the radial is meant to be.
The 2.5 Radial MMs I tried measured 2.44" at the knobs. My Argotals and Kryptotal 2.4s measure 2.40" at the knobs. 30mm internal rims for both.
If any of you Radial-curious people are in California, I'm looking to get rid of the set I tried for 2 rides. MM Radial Trail 29x2.5 Ultra Soft, MM Radial Gravity 27.5x2.5 Soft. PM if interested.
Getting caught up on this chain.... Coming from the classic Assegai/DHR II for SoCal riding on an emtb I saw radial tires were on so many " 2024...
Getting caught up on this chain....
Coming from the classic Assegai/DHR II for SoCal riding on an emtb I saw radial tires were on so many " 2024 Best Of" listings I had to try them.
My research, direct from Schwable and what I read out there didn't make the choices easy since there's some conflicting information and not a lot of exisitng tread paterns available in radial. I ended up with a MM up front and Shredda rear in the back, both 2.5, super soft and gravity pro.
Once in hand it was clear the tread pattern was not the right choice for SoCal riding. Particularly the Shredda with super long and flexible knobs but also the MM, which from every account read like a do it all for all conditions choice. From what I've gathered since the Gravity pro casing might help the soft treads hold up in cornering/braking but I just can't see that being the case with these in my conditions. Also the MM measured almost 2.3 on a 30mm rim, which is not confidence inspiring out front.
I went back to the drawing board and purchased Alberts, a 2.6 Gravity Super Soft for the front and a 2.5 Gravity Soft for the rear. In dimensions and tread that seems close to what I was used to and will perform best in my conditions. Time will tell this weekend when they get dirty for the first time.
Schwalbe's approach does seem contrarian in that you need higher PSI to make up for side wall support/rim protection which also leads to a muted, more "reboundy" trail feel but the softer tread and bigger contact patch make up for that. I can see that not being for everyone, it'll be interesting to try myself.
I also will try the albert in the spring. Magic Mary is probably one of the most versatile tires out there but it means that it tends to feel a bit mushy on hardpack. Like the front wheel drifts a little all the time but if you're used to it its ok because they hook up predictably and don't loos grip unpredicably.
The 2.5 Radial MMs I tried measured 2.44" at the knobs. My Argotals and Kryptotal 2.4s measure 2.40" at the knobs. 30mm internal rims for both.If...
The 2.5 Radial MMs I tried measured 2.44" at the knobs. My Argotals and Kryptotal 2.4s measure 2.40" at the knobs. 30mm internal rims for both.
If any of you Radial-curious people are in California, I'm looking to get rid of the set I tried for 2 rides. MM Radial Trail 29x2.5 Ultra Soft, MM Radial Gravity 27.5x2.5 Soft. PM if interested.
Out of curiosity, why no love for the radial MM's?
Could you measure the width between those two alberts? From what I’ve read on mtbr forums, all radials are undersized.
My Albert 29 x 2.5 Trail Ultrasoft measures about 2.33" wide after plenty of stretching on a 28 ID wheel. It actually works just amazing as a front tire on my trail bike ('23 Smuggler). It was inadequate for the front of my e-bike ('23 Relay) and came off after 2 rides. It's odd because I ride my trail bike nearly as hard and maybe even faster through the turns; I think the terrain is just a bit different where the E-bike ends up in more loose rock where the trail bike is in more hard pack. Also the e-bike has a wider (edited) front rim. That said, the Albert 2.5 just couldn't grab past the loose rock and bite in on that bike.
My Albert 27.5 x 2.6 Gravity soft measures about 2.37" after plenty of stretching on a 28mm ID wheel. It's a fantastic rear tire on my Relay. It also steepens the bike up a bit as it's tall, which I like.
My Magic Mary 29 x 2.5 Ultrasoft Trail measures about 2.47" after plenty of stretching on a 33mm ID wheel. It's a GREAT front tire.
A few notes on radial tires:
1) Radial tires barely stretch at all actually, you are lucky to get .1" after days at 40 psi and hard riding.
2) I'm a tire hound and in those 3 applications listed above, they are the best tires I've tried, and I've tried a lot.
3) I'm in Central TX, basically dry sharp rocks that crumble and move, and hardpack.
4) In our rare wet conditions which I avoid, Radials are better than anything I've tried. Still avoid the wet but it's nice if I'm traveling and end up in the wet.
5) They roll much better than expected or Schwalbe indicated. That Albert on the front of my trail bike is as fast as anything this side of a XC tire and sticks very good. It's really good!
6) They wear really well.
7) the Alberts look oddly tall. I think that's why the Spot in the PB Field-test had rear clearance issues, those control Alberts were just tall.
8) I generally get away with low tire pressure and am running 23 psi on the front of the Smuggler (up from 21 on non-radials), and 23f & 25R on the Relay. I tried higher but they felt a bit pingy.
8) I'm sold on Radials; they are damn good. I'd like to see Schwalbe offer a radial in a nearly XC tread for the rear of a trail bike in hard pack. The traction improvement is such with radials that I think you could have enough traction and a very fast tire,
The 2.5 Radial MMs I tried measured 2.44" at the knobs. My Argotals and Kryptotal 2.4s measure 2.40" at the knobs. 30mm internal rims for both.If...
The 2.5 Radial MMs I tried measured 2.44" at the knobs. My Argotals and Kryptotal 2.4s measure 2.40" at the knobs. 30mm internal rims for both.
If any of you Radial-curious people are in California, I'm looking to get rid of the set I tried for 2 rides. MM Radial Trail 29x2.5 Ultra Soft, MM Radial Gravity 27.5x2.5 Soft. PM if interested.
Out of curiosity, why no love for the radial MM's?
Unpredictable squirm and undamped rebound, even running 3-4 psi over what I'm used to. I think they'll work really well with some people who like really squishy tires that conform to everything. But I felt like I had the same level of grip running DH Contis running less pressure and a more stable edge feel. I like being able to lean over my bike and feel like the side knobs are carving like skis, not be squishy Hoka running shoes.
The side knobs feel might be a MM specific thing (I know older versions of that tire felt pretty vague on hardpack also), but the undamped rebound is definitely a Radial thing. I felt like if I ran enough pressure to get good support at high speeds, the front tire pinged off roots and logs when riding slow tech.
Sure will, I'm curious too. Probably get em mounted up this weekend. For the record, the Shredda did measure accurately. Someone on mtbr said thier 2.5 Albert...
Sure will, I'm curious too. Probably get em mounted up this weekend. For the record, the Shredda did measure accurately.
Someone on mtbr said thier 2.5 Albert measured 2.37 on a 30mm rim. So I'm thinking all are about .1 narrow.
If the contact patch is bigger (wider) does it matter what it meaures??????
I'm no scientist but if the width is round (the casing) and it's flattened won't the contact patrch end up wider than the static measurement? Especially...
I'm no scientist but if the width is round (the casing) and it's flattened won't the contact patrch end up wider than the static measurement? Especially if the knobs also flex out. So, if the radial is doing what it's marketed to do, a Maxxis measuring the same static width would have a narrower contact patch than a radial. That's how I understand that the secret sauce of the radial is meant to be.
To be more precise, the width will grow a tiny bit as the casing compresses onto the ground, but at appropriate pressures the casing width is basically maxed out already.
The growth of the contact patch is mainly lengthwise along the tire.
The effect is similar weather if you use stronger/ less flexible casings with lower air pressure or softer/ more flexible casings with more air pressure.
The secret sauce of the radial casings in theory at least is that the casing can flex over a smaller area. it can flex over a rock or root without needing a larger section of the tire to flex.
Mounted this morning and riding today on 30mm internal width WAO Triads. I'm about 195lb kitted and on an emtb.
Front
Albert 2.6 Gravity Pro Ultra soft 27psi - tread width measure 2.37
Rear
Albert 2.5 Gravity Pro Soft 30psi - tread width measures 2.3
This is up from my usual +3psi front (Assegai) and +2psi rear (DHRII) as a starting point. I'd get very infrequent rims sticks on the front and never on the back with Maxxis so the above PSI seems like a good start.
The radial Albert’s are the real deal. Mine are gravity super soft 2.6’s front and rear. Had my first race on them today and the grip combined with the damped feeling of the gravity casing added a whole new layer of confidence for me. The most surprising aspect though, the fact that they pedal and roll quite well. Much more efficient than i imagined. When does the radial line expand to the more trail oriented models? I’m convinced
I liked the mechanical grip from the Argotal & Kryptotal. Found them to be quite a harsh feeling compared to maxxis.
Enduro casing should be good for a bit more compliance.
He sent it back to bike-discount.de who refunded him. No info if they will send it to Schwalbe though
Yes, there's nothing on the trail or crash that caused it. Lightly used in local trails.
He sent it back to bike-discount.de who refunded him.
I can't measure anything and I ran the radials on an ebike only so far. So hard to gage rolling restitance but the radial tire is way louder on asphalt. But hard to say if this is an indication that its rolling slower. But it kinda sounds like it would if you would run a supertrail tire with not enough air and this could be an indication that they roll slower on asphalt. I also sometimes find the grip of the supertrail super soft mary too much in the back as it locks up when I want to actually flick the wheel around. Like in some situations it was more fun with a less grippier rear tire...
Regarding the Continental DH tires (and probably Enduro casing tires as well). Angel Suarez's mechanic was on video at a World Cup saying that Angel will ride on a set of Conti tires no more than 5 (something very low like that) runs before they have to be replaced. He said they weren't replacing them because of the rubber wear but because of the 'casing break down'.
Interesting because I was in the garage and felt the a brand new Arotal (DH casing) and a well used Kryptotal (DH casing) and the difference was quite noticeable. The used tire feels a good bit softer/more pliable than the fresh tire. I've never noticed tires from other brands showing this much casing feel difference between fresh and used. It might be there, but I've never noticed it like I did on these Conti DH tires.
It is there, when I saw that video too I started to keep an eye for it too last summer. Happens on Specs gravity casing too and even more so with Michelins 2024 enduro lineup. Its actually quite noticeable if you change tires often, like I had to do while testing.
Could you measure the width between those two alberts? From what I’ve read on mtbr forums, all radials are undersized.
Sure will, I'm curious too. Probably get em mounted up this weekend. For the record, the Shredda did measure accurately.
Someone on mtbr said thier 2.5 Albert measured 2.37 on a 30mm rim. So I'm thinking all are about .1 narrow.
If the contact patch is bigger (wider) does it matter what it meaures??????
Contact patch gets longer as the tire compresses onto the ground but stays the same width, excluding a little bit of casing stretch.
I'm no scientist but if the width is round (the casing) and it's flattened won't the contact patrch end up wider than the static measurement? Especially if the knobs also flex out. So, if the radial is doing what it's marketed to do, a Maxxis measuring the same static width would have a narrower contact patch than a radial. That's how I understand that the secret sauce of the radial is meant to be.
I just installed 2.6 albert radials with the gravity casing on 30mm rims and without measuring (yet) I can verify that they are small
The 2.5 Radial MMs I tried measured 2.44" at the knobs. My Argotals and Kryptotal 2.4s measure 2.40" at the knobs. 30mm internal rims for both.
If any of you Radial-curious people are in California, I'm looking to get rid of the set I tried for 2 rides. MM Radial Trail 29x2.5 Ultra Soft, MM Radial Gravity 27.5x2.5 Soft. PM if interested.
I also will try the albert in the spring. Magic Mary is probably one of the most versatile tires out there but it means that it tends to feel a bit mushy on hardpack. Like the front wheel drifts a little all the time but if you're used to it its ok because they hook up predictably and don't loos grip unpredicably.
Some data:
edit - 30i rims, sorry for the oversight
My 2.3 butcher measure 59mm at knobs, 60 at the casing
My 2.4 xenotal measures 57 at the knobs and 59 casing
My 2.6 mazza measures 57 at the knobs and 60 at the casing
I can report on back on the high roller 3 once the mazza wears out
Out of curiosity, why no love for the radial MM's?
My Albert 29 x 2.5 Trail Ultrasoft measures about 2.33" wide after plenty of stretching on a 28 ID wheel. It actually works just amazing as a front tire on my trail bike ('23 Smuggler). It was inadequate for the front of my e-bike ('23 Relay) and came off after 2 rides. It's odd because I ride my trail bike nearly as hard and maybe even faster through the turns; I think the terrain is just a bit different where the E-bike ends up in more loose rock where the trail bike is in more hard pack. Also the e-bike has a wider (edited) front rim. That said, the Albert 2.5 just couldn't grab past the loose rock and bite in on that bike.
My Albert 27.5 x 2.6 Gravity soft measures about 2.37" after plenty of stretching on a 28mm ID wheel. It's a fantastic rear tire on my Relay. It also steepens the bike up a bit as it's tall, which I like.
My Magic Mary 29 x 2.5 Ultrasoft Trail measures about 2.47" after plenty of stretching on a 33mm ID wheel. It's a GREAT front tire.
A few notes on radial tires:
1) Radial tires barely stretch at all actually, you are lucky to get .1" after days at 40 psi and hard riding.
2) I'm a tire hound and in those 3 applications listed above, they are the best tires I've tried, and I've tried a lot.
3) I'm in Central TX, basically dry sharp rocks that crumble and move, and hardpack.
4) In our rare wet conditions which I avoid, Radials are better than anything I've tried. Still avoid the wet but it's nice if I'm traveling and end up in the wet.
5) They roll much better than expected or Schwalbe indicated. That Albert on the front of my trail bike is as fast as anything this side of a XC tire and sticks very good. It's really good!
6) They wear really well.
7) the Alberts look oddly tall. I think that's why the Spot in the PB Field-test had rear clearance issues, those control Alberts were just tall.
8) I generally get away with low tire pressure and am running 23 psi on the front of the Smuggler (up from 21 on non-radials), and 23f & 25R on the Relay. I tried higher but they felt a bit pingy.
8) I'm sold on Radials; they are damn good. I'd like to see Schwalbe offer a radial in a nearly XC tread for the rear of a trail bike in hard pack. The traction improvement is such with radials that I think you could have enough traction and a very fast tire,
Unpredictable squirm and undamped rebound, even running 3-4 psi over what I'm used to. I think they'll work really well with some people who like really squishy tires that conform to everything. But I felt like I had the same level of grip running DH Contis running less pressure and a more stable edge feel. I like being able to lean over my bike and feel like the side knobs are carving like skis, not be squishy Hoka running shoes.
The side knobs feel might be a MM specific thing (I know older versions of that tire felt pretty vague on hardpack also), but the undamped rebound is definitely a Radial thing. I felt like if I ran enough pressure to get good support at high speeds, the front tire pinged off roots and logs when riding slow tech.
To be more precise, the width will grow a tiny bit as the casing compresses onto the ground, but at appropriate pressures the casing width is basically maxed out already.
The growth of the contact patch is mainly lengthwise along the tire.
The effect is similar weather if you use stronger/ less flexible casings with lower air pressure or softer/ more flexible casings with more air pressure.
The secret sauce of the radial casings in theory at least is that the casing can flex over a smaller area. it can flex over a rock or root without needing a larger section of the tire to flex.
Mounted this morning and riding today on 30mm internal width WAO Triads. I'm about 195lb kitted and on an emtb.
The radial Albert’s are the real deal. Mine are gravity super soft 2.6’s front and rear. Had my first race on them today and the grip combined with the damped feeling of the gravity casing added a whole new layer of confidence for me. The most surprising aspect though, the fact that they pedal and roll quite well. Much more efficient than i imagined. When does the radial line expand to the more trail oriented models? I’m convinced
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