"When riding downhill, the external drivetrain (chain, chainring, cassette) is decoupled from the internal drivetrain (freewheel, gearbox, motor)" Suspect that the reality is that the external...
"When riding downhill, the external drivetrain (chain, chainring, cassette) is decoupled from the internal drivetrain (freewheel, gearbox, motor)"
Suspect that the reality is that the external drivetrain needs to decouple from the 'cranks', 'not the internal drivetrain', to effectively reduce PK.
Yes, decoupling between chainring and crank is ultimately the key for PK reduction/elimination. I have not had the opportunity to examine the inner workings of any of these motors. Does the pedal power go through the motor, or directly to the chainring? In other words, is the motor upstream of the crank, which is upstream of the ring, or is the crank upstream of the motor, which is upstream of the ring? In the latter scenario (with the crank upstream of the motor) decoupling "the external drivetrain (chain, chainring, cassette)...from the internal drivetrain (freewheel, gearbox, motor)" would by default decouple the crank. But in the former scenario, it would not. I have not ever really thought about it before. I am sure having the motor upstream of the crank would cut down on power-off pedaling drag, but some of these motors do have a fair bit of drag with the power off, so it wasn't obvious to me that the pedal power wasn't going through the motor's gearset on the way to the ring.
The motor rattle is just building them loose enough that they can be pedaled easily with the motor off. They can tighten them up, and make...
The motor rattle is just building them loose enough that they can be pedaled easily with the motor off. They can tighten them up, and make them all stop rattling.
The only motor that pedals freely AND has no rattle is the F60.
That said, I cared about this a lot when I was shopping for my first e-bike, but no longer care about pedaling with the motor off.
I think most Relay owners have come to the same conclusion--the only time you'll ever pedal an ebike off is when there's an electrical malfunction or...
I think most Relay owners have come to the same conclusion--the only time you'll ever pedal an ebike off is when there's an electrical malfunction or the battery runs out (both are worst-case scenarios); otherwise, no one with an ebike really cares how it pedals without assistance. Unassisted pedaling performance should not factor into an ebike purchase at all.
Idk with my around 1 kg lighter e8000 bike I always saved battery in slight descents or flat fireroads. With the heavier Levo that's not possible...
Idk with my around 1 kg lighter e8000 bike I always saved battery in slight descents or flat fireroads. With the heavier Levo that's not possible. I think it must be mainly the weight because the tires are the same.
I rode my 56lbs N8e 5 miles with assist turned off, was riding with an analog buddy. I didn't think it was that bad, and I had a spare battery for my kids bike in my hydro pack. I was happy to turn it on for the last 12 miles, but it's totally ridable with it off. When I first get to a trail head I like to ride the first 1/2 mile or so with the assist off to help me warm up faster.
I rode my 56lbs N8e 5 miles with assist turned off, was riding with an analog buddy. I didn't think it was that bad, and I...
I rode my 56lbs N8e 5 miles with assist turned off, was riding with an analog buddy. I didn't think it was that bad, and I had a spare battery for my kids bike in my hydro pack. I was happy to turn it on for the last 12 miles, but it's totally ridable with it off. When I first get to a trail head I like to ride the first 1/2 mile or so with the assist off to help me warm up faster.
Orbea Wild development story video. I still think their DH approach was one of the cooler things to be done w/ bike development
How the new Wild with OOLAB was developed in the DH World Cup
Forged in the heat of high competition, the Wild takes its capabilities to a new level. Orbea has unveiled its new video entitled "How we developed the new Wild". This exclusive content details the process of transforming an ebike into a prototype suitable for DH World Cups. The goal? To test creative concepts on the most demanding stage.
The video shows how Orbea's engineering team, mechanical staff and Orbea Enduro Team rider Martin Maes worked under the most demanding conditions, using the most technical tracks on the world circuit as a test laboratory.
The Wild prototype underwent intensive development that included a specific "dummy" for the absence of the motor, adjustments to the geometry, frame stiffness, mass distribution and also changes to the suspension to adapt it to the technical and demanding descents of the DH World Cups.
This approach not only ensured a remarkable performance in competition, with two top-20 finishes in two rounds of the DH World Cup, but also generated a new sphere of expertise for Orbea. This has allowed them to set new standards in the eMTB segment, applying this knowledge to the Wild presented just a few months ago.
Orbea Wild development story video. I still think their DH approach was one of the cooler things to be done w/ bike developmentHow the new...
Orbea Wild development story video. I still think their DH approach was one of the cooler things to be done w/ bike development
How the new Wild with OOLAB was developed in the DH World Cup
Forged in the heat of high competition, the Wild takes its capabilities to a new level. Orbea has unveiled its new video entitled "How we developed the new Wild". This exclusive content details the process of transforming an ebike into a prototype suitable for DH World Cups. The goal? To test creative concepts on the most demanding stage.
The video shows how Orbea's engineering team, mechanical staff and Orbea Enduro Team rider Martin Maes worked under the most demanding conditions, using the most technical tracks on the world circuit as a test laboratory.
The Wild prototype underwent intensive development that included a specific "dummy" for the absence of the motor, adjustments to the geometry, frame stiffness, mass distribution and also changes to the suspension to adapt it to the technical and demanding descents of the DH World Cups.
This approach not only ensured a remarkable performance in competition, with two top-20 finishes in two rounds of the DH World Cup, but also generated a new sphere of expertise for Orbea. This has allowed them to set new standards in the eMTB segment, applying this knowledge to the Wild presented just a few months ago.
If only they learned not to route the cables through the headset. :-)
The Levo used to be the full power emtb benchmark apart from reliability until the amflow came around so ideally it would be close to the Amflow but with a removable battery. But chances are specialized didn't know about the Amflow in detail and it won't match its specs.
So far rumors say it will have the brose and 48v plus a bigger battery. So looks like it will be heavier than the Amflow. Probably close to the Gen 5 Bosch with 800wh battery.
It's actually quite amazing how far ahead the Levo was when it was released. In my eyes, its still competitive with the Amflow.
Amflow's are not quite as light as some of the early reports. Sam's with a 38, a coil & gravity Schwalbes weighs 50#s in a size Large. That's still 5#s more than my XL Relay, also with dual coil suspension, 1 gravity tire & pedals and tools on board.
I'm still looking for the free lunch but have yet to find it. My plan is to buy the E-Druid, but I think it'll weigh 48#s once all set up, not 43#s as has been reported. Hope I'm wrong however!
Anyone know anything about a new Levo soon? What would people want to see on it?
I just got back from camping, took my Range VLT as there is a fun little DH track you can repeat easily.
anyway, I'm an idiot and the wheel I swapped over to the ebike did not have a magnet in the disc, so the bike didn't work lol
Owner of the camp ground had a levo, he let me take his bike for some laps. First corner I was comfy on this bike despite been way too small, the thing was so light and nimble. Wasn't a SL edition, just a normal carbon Levo. Call me impressed. It just worked really nice.
It's actually quite amazing how far ahead the Levo was when it was released. In my eyes, its still competitive with the Amflow.Amflow's are not quite...
It's actually quite amazing how far ahead the Levo was when it was released. In my eyes, its still competitive with the Amflow.
Amflow's are not quite as light as some of the early reports. Sam's with a 38, a coil & gravity Schwalbes weighs 50#s in a size Large. That's still 5#s more than my XL Relay, also with dual coil suspension, 1 gravity tire & pedals and tools on board.
I'm still looking for the free lunch but have yet to find it. My plan is to buy the E-Druid, but I think it'll weigh 48#s once all set up, not 43#s as has been reported. Hope I'm wrong however!
Yeah, the levo would probably be pretty close if the battery was non-removable aswell. A quickly removable battery will always add like 0,5 to 1 kg. But its neccessary in some use cases, especially when you're on the road.
Yes, decoupling between chainring and crank is ultimately the key for PK reduction/elimination. I have not had the opportunity to examine the inner workings of any of these motors. Does the pedal power go through the motor, or directly to the chainring? In other words, is the motor upstream of the crank, which is upstream of the ring, or is the crank upstream of the motor, which is upstream of the ring? In the latter scenario (with the crank upstream of the motor) decoupling "the external drivetrain (chain, chainring, cassette)...from the internal drivetrain (freewheel, gearbox, motor)" would by default decouple the crank. But in the former scenario, it would not. I have not ever really thought about it before. I am sure having the motor upstream of the crank would cut down on power-off pedaling drag, but some of these motors do have a fair bit of drag with the power off, so it wasn't obvious to me that the pedal power wasn't going through the motor's gearset on the way to the ring.
I rode my 56lbs N8e 5 miles with assist turned off, was riding with an analog buddy. I didn't think it was that bad, and I had a spare battery for my kids bike in my hydro pack. I was happy to turn it on for the last 12 miles, but it's totally ridable with it off. When I first get to a trail head I like to ride the first 1/2 mile or so with the assist off to help me warm up faster.
This is insane behavior!
my range VLT battery fucked up once riding home from the pub, the bike is 30kg on DH tyres (66lb)
I had to ride 3km and about 100m vert home, I nearly fainted lol. Walking would have been faster.
Orbea Wild development story video. I still think their DH approach was one of the cooler things to be done w/ bike development
How the new Wild with OOLAB was developed in the DH World Cup
Forged in the heat of high competition, the Wild takes its capabilities to a new level. Orbea has unveiled its new video entitled "How we developed the new Wild". This exclusive content details the process of transforming an ebike into a prototype suitable for DH World Cups. The goal? To test creative concepts on the most demanding stage.
The video shows how Orbea's engineering team, mechanical staff and Orbea Enduro Team rider Martin Maes worked under the most demanding conditions, using the most technical tracks on the world circuit as a test laboratory.
The Wild prototype underwent intensive development that included a specific "dummy" for the absence of the motor, adjustments to the geometry, frame stiffness, mass distribution and also changes to the suspension to adapt it to the technical and demanding descents of the DH World Cups.
This approach not only ensured a remarkable performance in competition, with two top-20 finishes in two rounds of the DH World Cup, but also generated a new sphere of expertise for Orbea. This has allowed them to set new standards in the eMTB segment, applying this knowledge to the Wild presented just a few months ago.
If only they learned not to route the cables through the headset. :-)
Anyone know anything about a new Levo soon? What would people want to see on it?
The Levo used to be the full power emtb benchmark apart from reliability until the amflow came around so ideally it would be close to the Amflow but with a removable battery. But chances are specialized didn't know about the Amflow in detail and it won't match its specs.
So far rumors say it will have the brose and 48v plus a bigger battery. So looks like it will be heavier than the Amflow. Probably close to the Gen 5 Bosch with 800wh battery.
It's actually quite amazing how far ahead the Levo was when it was released. In my eyes, its still competitive with the Amflow.
Amflow's are not quite as light as some of the early reports. Sam's with a 38, a coil & gravity Schwalbes weighs 50#s in a size Large. That's still 5#s more than my XL Relay, also with dual coil suspension, 1 gravity tire & pedals and tools on board.
I'm still looking for the free lunch but have yet to find it. My plan is to buy the E-Druid, but I think it'll weigh 48#s once all set up, not 43#s as has been reported. Hope I'm wrong however!
I just got back from camping, took my Range VLT as there is a fun little DH track you can repeat easily.
anyway, I'm an idiot and the wheel I swapped over to the ebike did not have a magnet in the disc, so the bike didn't work lol
Owner of the camp ground had a levo, he let me take his bike for some laps. First corner I was comfy on this bike despite been way too small, the thing was so light and nimble. Wasn't a SL edition, just a normal carbon Levo. Call me impressed. It just worked really nice.
Yeah, the levo would probably be pretty close if the battery was non-removable aswell. A quickly removable battery will always add like 0,5 to 1 kg. But its neccessary in some use cases, especially when you're on the road.
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