MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

Related:
earleb
Posts
170
Joined
3/23/2023
Location
North Vancouver, BC CA
Fantasy
225th
12/11/2024 9:44pm

Some tech pulled from Ohlins and refined. His oval shim clamp that allows the the retune is an expansion on the variable diameter shim clamp Ohlins uses. Sounds like he has given it a broader range of adjustment and ability to better control it with the worm drive screw. 

A 2020 NSMB article where Steve retunes a TTX18 and specifically comments on it. https://nsmb.com/articles/%C3%B6hlins-rxf-36-m2-spring-swap/

6
1
Primoz
Posts
3614
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
Fantasy
783rd
12/11/2024 10:34pm
AndehM wrote:
The problem with jumping on an ebike with a new motor from a new (to MTB ) company is all the unknowns when it comes to...

The problem with jumping on an ebike with a new motor from a new (to MTB ) company is all the unknowns when it comes to support, regardless of where it was designed or built.  Ebike motors and batteries are not like other bike components - if your bike comes with a sexy sounding new shock that turns out to be unreliable, you can replace it with another brand.  You can't do that with batteries or motors (yet).

This is a real concern since none of the existing motor/battery manufacturers have a perfect track record.  Even if you get an ebike from a brand that has really great warranty support (like Santa Cruz), when it comes to motor/battery issues they will pass you or your dealer off to the motor's warranty/support department.  If that's dodgy or slow or has no spare parts available, you could be waiting months to get issues resolved.  If the motor company goes belly up, or stops making parts available, then your expensive ebike instantly turns into a collection of parts.  I just recently saw a guy on the local buy/sell thread trying to unload parts from his dead 2021 Kinevo because it costs more to replace the dead motor than the complete bike would be worth over the value of the parts... and that's just 3 years old.

Of all the standards that could potentially happen, I hope a standard motor mounting pattern will happen, or at least shrink the pattern down to 2...

Of all the standards that could potentially happen, I hope a standard motor mounting pattern will happen, or at least shrink the pattern down to 2 or 3 different patterns depending on the motor. (EU USB-C law where you at?)

As a consumer I would be worried about a company like DJI, or even smaller 3rd party motor makers not seeing sales where they want and cut off production, leaving me SOL except to the frame maker if I was to have issues.

If I was a product manager or designer in the bike world, it'd be a similar concern, but in the R&D cost side. Why sink $$$ into designing a frame for a motor that may be out of production in 2-3 years? Would likely just go Shimano, Bosch or SRAM motors at that point. 

Back in the old days you could mix and match drivetrain parts to your hearts content. These days that's a thing very few people do, integration and systemisation is the name of the game. 

While having a standard motor bolt pattern (that would define the spindle location too, obviously) would be great, but then you'd need to standardise the battery mounting/size and communication to motor too. And possible controls. Or something along those lines. 

I'm afraid it's more likely we are going to see more and more integration (more margin for the bike brand) vs. more standardisation. 

5
1
noodlenosteeze
Posts
165
Joined
1/12/2023
Location
Magna, UT US
Fantasy
1675th
12/12/2024 11:01am
AndehM wrote:
The problem with jumping on an ebike with a new motor from a new (to MTB ) company is all the unknowns when it comes to...

The problem with jumping on an ebike with a new motor from a new (to MTB ) company is all the unknowns when it comes to support, regardless of where it was designed or built.  Ebike motors and batteries are not like other bike components - if your bike comes with a sexy sounding new shock that turns out to be unreliable, you can replace it with another brand.  You can't do that with batteries or motors (yet).

This is a real concern since none of the existing motor/battery manufacturers have a perfect track record.  Even if you get an ebike from a brand that has really great warranty support (like Santa Cruz), when it comes to motor/battery issues they will pass you or your dealer off to the motor's warranty/support department.  If that's dodgy or slow or has no spare parts available, you could be waiting months to get issues resolved.  If the motor company goes belly up, or stops making parts available, then your expensive ebike instantly turns into a collection of parts.  I just recently saw a guy on the local buy/sell thread trying to unload parts from his dead 2021 Kinevo because it costs more to replace the dead motor than the complete bike would be worth over the value of the parts... and that's just 3 years old.

Of all the standards that could potentially happen, I hope a standard motor mounting pattern will happen, or at least shrink the pattern down to 2...

Of all the standards that could potentially happen, I hope a standard motor mounting pattern will happen, or at least shrink the pattern down to 2 or 3 different patterns depending on the motor. (EU USB-C law where you at?)

As a consumer I would be worried about a company like DJI, or even smaller 3rd party motor makers not seeing sales where they want and cut off production, leaving me SOL except to the frame maker if I was to have issues.

If I was a product manager or designer in the bike world, it'd be a similar concern, but in the R&D cost side. Why sink $$$ into designing a frame for a motor that may be out of production in 2-3 years? Would likely just go Shimano, Bosch or SRAM motors at that point. 

Primoz wrote:
Back in the old days you could mix and match drivetrain parts to your hearts content. These days that's a thing very few people do, integration...

Back in the old days you could mix and match drivetrain parts to your hearts content. These days that's a thing very few people do, integration and systemisation is the name of the game. 

While having a standard motor bolt pattern (that would define the spindle location too, obviously) would be great, but then you'd need to standardise the battery mounting/size and communication to motor too. And possible controls. Or something along those lines. 

I'm afraid it's more likely we are going to see more and more integration (more margin for the bike brand) vs. more standardisation. 

And if it continues, Shimano and Bosch will continue to be the main motor suppliers brands will work with. Sad, I would really like to try out a DJI motor. Might have to see if Forbidden will run any demos near me once they're out. 

3
overbiked
Posts
13
Joined
10/23/2024
Location
Orem, UT US
12/12/2024 1:00pm
Yoda wrote:
Regen on mid drives seems difficult and highly inefficient to implement, but for hub motors mated to a brake sensor could work (how my hybrid regens).Back...

Regen on mid drives seems difficult and highly inefficient to implement, but for hub motors mated to a brake sensor could work (how my hybrid regens).

Back to rumors the entire specialized gravity team were testing in Tahoe and Bruni’s insta post on it mentioned ‘new bike is fast’. Maybe a revised layout proto update or they’re finally on the production frame? 

Took a gander at loics post, the dh bike that you can see behind the mechanic has a different headtube, not a silver lugged one like the previous prototype bike has. My guess is production frame, as it's most likely carbon or aluminum.

There is also an enduro bike pictured in the background, would be cool if specialized updated that frame as it's about time.

1
1
Jotegr
Posts
135
Joined
6/28/2024
Location
Nakusp, BC CA
12/12/2024 1:30pm
Yoda wrote:
Regen on mid drives seems difficult and highly inefficient to implement, but for hub motors mated to a brake sensor could work (how my hybrid regens).Back...

Regen on mid drives seems difficult and highly inefficient to implement, but for hub motors mated to a brake sensor could work (how my hybrid regens).

Back to rumors the entire specialized gravity team were testing in Tahoe and Bruni’s insta post on it mentioned ‘new bike is fast’. Maybe a revised layout proto update or they’re finally on the production frame? 

overbiked wrote:
Took a gander at loics post, the dh bike that you can see behind the mechanic has a different headtube, not a silver lugged one like...

Took a gander at loics post, the dh bike that you can see behind the mechanic has a different headtube, not a silver lugged one like the previous prototype bike has. My guess is production frame, as it's most likely carbon or aluminum.

There is also an enduro bike pictured in the background, would be cool if specialized updated that frame as it's about time.

Hasn't the rumour in this thread been that Specialized literally has a boxed, ready to go next gen Enduro sitting in warehouses and waiting to sell through the current one for some time? 

8
nsp234
Posts
52
Joined
9/15/2016
Location
CH
12/12/2024 3:25pm
overbiked wrote:
Took a gander at loics post, the dh bike that you can see behind the mechanic has a different headtube, not a silver lugged one like...

Took a gander at loics post, the dh bike that you can see behind the mechanic has a different headtube, not a silver lugged one like the previous prototype bike has. My guess is production frame, as it's most likely carbon or aluminum.

There is also an enduro bike pictured in the background, would be cool if specialized updated that frame as it's about time.

The bike in the background seems to be some kind of ebike. There's a display on the toptube. so no new enduro I guess...

 

9
1
kolsen
Posts
26
Joined
6/14/2018
Location
The Bush NO
12/12/2024 3:28pm
overbiked wrote:
Took a gander at loics post, the dh bike that you can see behind the mechanic has a different headtube, not a silver lugged one like...

Took a gander at loics post, the dh bike that you can see behind the mechanic has a different headtube, not a silver lugged one like the previous prototype bike has. My guess is production frame, as it's most likely carbon or aluminum.

There is also an enduro bike pictured in the background, would be cool if specialized updated that frame as it's about time.

nsp234 wrote:

The bike in the background seems to be some kind of ebike. There's a display on the toptube. so no new enduro I guess...

 

Next gen Levo or Kenevo maybe 

peecee
Posts
380
Joined
5/12/2013
Location
Brisbane AU
Fantasy
308th
12/12/2024 3:32pm
Yoda wrote:
Regen on mid drives seems difficult and highly inefficient to implement, but for hub motors mated to a brake sensor could work (how my hybrid regens).Back...

Regen on mid drives seems difficult and highly inefficient to implement, but for hub motors mated to a brake sensor could work (how my hybrid regens).

Back to rumors the entire specialized gravity team were testing in Tahoe and Bruni’s insta post on it mentioned ‘new bike is fast’. Maybe a revised layout proto update or they’re finally on the production frame? 

overbiked wrote:
Took a gander at loics post, the dh bike that you can see behind the mechanic has a different headtube, not a silver lugged one like...

Took a gander at loics post, the dh bike that you can see behind the mechanic has a different headtube, not a silver lugged one like the previous prototype bike has. My guess is production frame, as it's most likely carbon or aluminum.

There is also an enduro bike pictured in the background, would be cool if specialized updated that frame as it's about time.

Loic has been riding a blacked out Prototype for almost 2 seasons now ? 

p5pb27371278
4
1
overbiked
Posts
13
Joined
10/23/2024
Location
Orem, UT US
12/12/2024 3:37pm Edited Date/Time 12/12/2024 3:44pm
peecee wrote:
Loic has been riding a blacked out Prototype for almost 2 seasons now ? 

Loic has been riding a blacked out Prototype for almost 2 seasons now ? 

p5pb27371278

with my awesome brain fog I forgot about the black version, was just thinking about the silver lugged version they've also been using. 

If that is an ebike in the back,  could be a kenevo, or perhaps they're going away from the stumpy design for the full power levo. Low slung shock.

1
nsp234
Posts
52
Joined
9/15/2016
Location
CH
12/12/2024 3:37pm Edited Date/Time 12/12/2024 3:38pm
shreda wrote:

Looks like there might be some issues with the BikeYoke wireless dropper Sad

https://www.mtbr.com/threads/bikeyoke-wireless.1233215/page-2?post_id=1…

For those who didn't leave this page (an attitude that I support):
- OG bikeworks was developing an aftermarket kit for dropper posts (don't know which brands), to go where the actator usually sits. That was before working with BikeYoke
- OG collaborated with BikeYoke to integrate it into their post
- they couldn't settle on terms and terminated the collaboration
- OG is now back at the aftermarket approach and plans to have something ready in 6 months

FWIW, this is OG's version of the story, BikeYoke / Sacki didn't seem to be present in the MTBR thread

17
monarchmason
Posts
167
Joined
5/24/2022
Location
Nevada City, CA US
12/12/2024 5:41pm

Can someone post an image maybe? 

dolface wrote:
image 109

Oh thank you! Also that is the TDS Ranch in Grass Valley Ca. I live 10 min from it. There are some gnarly trails out there.

3
sprungmass
Posts
110
Joined
3/1/2023
Location
Calgary, AB CA
12/12/2024 5:46pm
nsp234 wrote:
For those who didn't leave this page (an attitude that I support):- OG bikeworks was developing an aftermarket kit for dropper posts (don't know which brands)...

For those who didn't leave this page (an attitude that I support):
- OG bikeworks was developing an aftermarket kit for dropper posts (don't know which brands), to go where the actator usually sits. That was before working with BikeYoke
- OG collaborated with BikeYoke to integrate it into their post
- they couldn't settle on terms and terminated the collaboration
- OG is now back at the aftermarket approach and plans to have something ready in 6 months

FWIW, this is OG's version of the story, BikeYoke / Sacki didn't seem to be present in the MTBR thread

They also mentioned "Our aftermarket product was already in the works before our collaboration with BikeYoke began, and they were fully aware of our plans to launch an aftermarket kit."

hopefully on good terms

2
Primoz
Posts
3614
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
Fantasy
783rd
12/13/2024 12:31am
peecee wrote:
Loic has been riding a blacked out Prototype for almost 2 seasons now ? 

Loic has been riding a blacked out Prototype for almost 2 seasons now ? 

p5pb27371278
overbiked wrote:
with my awesome brain fog I forgot about the black version, was just thinking about the silver lugged version they've also been using. If that is an...

with my awesome brain fog I forgot about the black version, was just thinking about the silver lugged version they've also been using. 

If that is an ebike in the back,  could be a kenevo, or perhaps they're going away from the stumpy design for the full power levo. Low slung shock.

I think they are still using black and silver/grey parts back and forth, depending on the prototype.

Nico_Hrndz
Posts
134
Joined
7/2/2010
Location
FR
Fantasy
561st
12/13/2024 12:42am Edited Date/Time 12/13/2024 12:44am

Can someone post an image maybe? 

dolface wrote:
image 109

also, ZEB on the kenevo /whatever ebike on the back. Would that mean anything?

(would be so weird. Jack has been working so closely with Ö for the past years, I can't see them going anywhere else)

1
B Rabbit
Posts
22
Joined
1/13/2024
Location
Sydney, NSW AU
12/13/2024 2:11am
Yoda wrote:
Regen on mid drives seems difficult and highly inefficient to implement, but for hub motors mated to a brake sensor could work (how my hybrid regens).Back...

Regen on mid drives seems difficult and highly inefficient to implement, but for hub motors mated to a brake sensor could work (how my hybrid regens).

Back to rumors the entire specialized gravity team were testing in Tahoe and Bruni’s insta post on it mentioned ‘new bike is fast’. Maybe a revised layout proto update or they’re finally on the production frame? 

overbiked wrote:
Took a gander at loics post, the dh bike that you can see behind the mechanic has a different headtube, not a silver lugged one like...

Took a gander at loics post, the dh bike that you can see behind the mechanic has a different headtube, not a silver lugged one like the previous prototype bike has. My guess is production frame, as it's most likely carbon or aluminum.

There is also an enduro bike pictured in the background, would be cool if specialized updated that frame as it's about time.

Jotegr wrote:
Hasn't the rumour in this thread been that Specialized literally has a boxed, ready to go next gen Enduro sitting in warehouses and waiting to sell...

Hasn't the rumour in this thread been that Specialized literally has a boxed, ready to go next gen Enduro sitting in warehouses and waiting to sell through the current one for some time? 

Not that I’ve heard. They did that with the latest Levo SL, but last time I spoke to the dealer they didn’t know of any new Enduro. 

sprungmass
Posts
110
Joined
3/1/2023
Location
Calgary, AB CA
12/13/2024 7:23am
nsp234 wrote:
For those who didn't leave this page (an attitude that I support):- OG bikeworks was developing an aftermarket kit for dropper posts (don't know which brands)...

For those who didn't leave this page (an attitude that I support):
- OG bikeworks was developing an aftermarket kit for dropper posts (don't know which brands), to go where the actator usually sits. That was before working with BikeYoke
- OG collaborated with BikeYoke to integrate it into their post
- they couldn't settle on terms and terminated the collaboration
- OG is now back at the aftermarket approach and plans to have something ready in 6 months

FWIW, this is OG's version of the story, BikeYoke / Sacki didn't seem to be present in the MTBR thread

sprungmass wrote:
They also mentioned "Our aftermarket product was already in the works before our collaboration with BikeYoke began, and they were fully aware of our plans to...

They also mentioned "Our aftermarket product was already in the works before our collaboration with BikeYoke began, and they were fully aware of our plans to launch an aftermarket kit."

hopefully on good terms

Turns out it was not on good terms. BikeYoke has entered the chat and apparently this product doesn't been the German standards. Sorry for beating the dead horse but context needs to be present for vital readers

image 110
13
monarchmason
Posts
167
Joined
5/24/2022
Location
Nevada City, CA US
12/13/2024 8:11am Edited Date/Time 12/13/2024 8:12am

Can someone post an image maybe? 

dolface wrote:
image 109
Nico_Hrndz wrote:
also, ZEB on the kenevo /whatever ebike on the back. Would that mean anything?(would be so weird. Jack has been working so closely with Ö for...

also, ZEB on the kenevo /whatever ebike on the back. Would that mean anything?

(would be so weird. Jack has been working so closely with Ö for the past years, I can't see them going anywhere else)

Maybe not. I imagine it may be a specialized employees bike or the property owners bike. The new specialized development center is about 35 minutes from where they are testing so its quite possible its just another employees bike. 

2
ballz
Posts
43
Joined
7/30/2024
Location
Ouagadougou EH
12/13/2024 8:50am
nsp234 wrote:
For those who didn't leave this page (an attitude that I support):- OG bikeworks was developing an aftermarket kit for dropper posts (don't know which brands)...

For those who didn't leave this page (an attitude that I support):
- OG bikeworks was developing an aftermarket kit for dropper posts (don't know which brands), to go where the actator usually sits. That was before working with BikeYoke
- OG collaborated with BikeYoke to integrate it into their post
- they couldn't settle on terms and terminated the collaboration
- OG is now back at the aftermarket approach and plans to have something ready in 6 months

FWIW, this is OG's version of the story, BikeYoke / Sacki didn't seem to be present in the MTBR thread

sprungmass wrote:
They also mentioned "Our aftermarket product was already in the works before our collaboration with BikeYoke began, and they were fully aware of our plans to...

They also mentioned "Our aftermarket product was already in the works before our collaboration with BikeYoke began, and they were fully aware of our plans to launch an aftermarket kit."

hopefully on good terms

sprungmass wrote:
Turns out it was not on good terms. BikeYoke has entered the chat and apparently this product doesn't been the German standards. Sorry for beating the...

Turns out it was not on good terms. BikeYoke has entered the chat and apparently this product doesn't been the German standards. Sorry for beating the dead horse but context needs to be present for vital readers

image 110

Cat fight!!

4
12/13/2024 9:39am
nsp234 wrote:
For those who didn't leave this page (an attitude that I support):- OG bikeworks was developing an aftermarket kit for dropper posts (don't know which brands)...

For those who didn't leave this page (an attitude that I support):
- OG bikeworks was developing an aftermarket kit for dropper posts (don't know which brands), to go where the actator usually sits. That was before working with BikeYoke
- OG collaborated with BikeYoke to integrate it into their post
- they couldn't settle on terms and terminated the collaboration
- OG is now back at the aftermarket approach and plans to have something ready in 6 months

FWIW, this is OG's version of the story, BikeYoke / Sacki didn't seem to be present in the MTBR thread

sprungmass wrote:
They also mentioned "Our aftermarket product was already in the works before our collaboration with BikeYoke began, and they were fully aware of our plans to...

They also mentioned "Our aftermarket product was already in the works before our collaboration with BikeYoke began, and they were fully aware of our plans to launch an aftermarket kit."

hopefully on good terms

sprungmass wrote:
Turns out it was not on good terms. BikeYoke has entered the chat and apparently this product doesn't been the German standards. Sorry for beating the...

Turns out it was not on good terms. BikeYoke has entered the chat and apparently this product doesn't been the German standards. Sorry for beating the dead horse but context needs to be present for vital readers

image 110

"We don't make public alligations..." goes on to make public alligations. 

9
11
noodlenosteeze
Posts
165
Joined
1/12/2023
Location
Magna, UT US
Fantasy
1675th
12/13/2024 10:22am
sprungmass wrote:
They also mentioned "Our aftermarket product was already in the works before our collaboration with BikeYoke began, and they were fully aware of our plans to...

They also mentioned "Our aftermarket product was already in the works before our collaboration with BikeYoke began, and they were fully aware of our plans to launch an aftermarket kit."

hopefully on good terms

sprungmass wrote:
Turns out it was not on good terms. BikeYoke has entered the chat and apparently this product doesn't been the German standards. Sorry for beating the...

Turns out it was not on good terms. BikeYoke has entered the chat and apparently this product doesn't been the German standards. Sorry for beating the dead horse but context needs to be present for vital readers

image 110

"We don't make public alligations..." goes on to make public alligations. 

There not any allegations in his post, at least none regarding OG. Merely that they said they have not wanted to move forward with any of the prototypes that have been tested so far. 

16
12/13/2024 11:47am Edited Date/Time 12/13/2024 11:48am
There not any allegations in his post, at least none regarding OG. Merely that they said they have not wanted to move forward with any of...

There not any allegations in his post, at least none regarding OG. Merely that they said they have not wanted to move forward with any of the prototypes that have been tested so far. 

I can't say I care too much BUT for arguments sake on a slow Friday at work...
 
BY's 4th paragraph reads to me as a STRONG allusion to low quality from OG. What I've read from OG they only referenced lawyers and contract issues, which isn't a direct blame on either side. Also, if you don't want to say something in a public forum just don't say anything, especially if you're not defending yourself. 
 
I don't really want to fight other peoples fights but that EOY PnL sheet ain't as fun. 
6
Jotegr
Posts
135
Joined
6/28/2024
Location
Nakusp, BC CA
12/13/2024 12:09pm Edited Date/Time 12/13/2024 12:09pm

Is it an allusion to low quality, or BY's high standards? I'm guessing anything with a wintek cartridge would not meet those standards and that seems to be what most people are running relatively trouble free these days. 

I do get what you're saying, it's not all sunshine and rainbows, but its also not an abject declaration of a dogshit product. If it met a different standard of quality than the one purported by BY, such as whatever Oneup is happy to send out the door,  I'd probably be OK with it. 

2
HexonJuan
Posts
155
Joined
6/10/2015
Location
WI US
12/13/2024 12:09pm

I see the comment as stating what was offered didn't meet expectations so we moved on. It happens in a colab setting often enough. With BY getting burned by Sram I can only surmise that they don't want to put themselves too in cahoots with another co unless there's a solid reason to do so. IMO, BY does things right most of the time outright and then makes sure updates are backwards compatible. I don't see them being the 'wait til the 2nd-3rd year of production to chase out the bugs' type of company. 

13
ballz
Posts
43
Joined
7/30/2024
Location
Ouagadougou EH
12/13/2024 2:13pm

What I see is a classic clash of US and DE business cultures. 

13
1

Post a reply to: MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

The Latest